Guild Wars 2

I know I am just venting as a small scale roamer but with HoT coming up I just want to make my opinions aware like many others.

My main anger is at how veteran/long time wvw players are not ever rewarded properly. Anet seems to be very PVE and CASUAL focused with the HoT content, with a lower requirement of wvw ranks, towers automatically upgrading and many other changes.

While anet does want new players, how are they ever gonna maintain the playerbase of WVW if they never give us proper rewards. I feel very forced to play PVE content inorder to gain gold and the same social status as my other guidlies/friends online. Everytime I go into WVW I get reminded, “you can be playing PVE and getting gold 20 times faster”.

Some of you might say, you can net similar gold income by raiding/zerging/eotm. But this is the very epitome of casualness.

With the promotion of towers automatically upgrading and sentries/camps getting buffed. This essentially eliminates any solo roamers doing any camp flipping/sentry flipping and any small groups ramming towers. Does Anet expect roamers to net 0g/h like scouters and require servers to “buy them off”? Does Anet truly to become WVW to be large scale fights with no variety of small and medium scale fights? Will WVW players always be poor as dirt?

It really does seem like it.

I really do hate how Anet is eliminating large segments of the community. It is like they want to take their original playerbase, kick them out of the game and replace them with an entirely different demographic.

Again this is just a vent, please forgive me for poor formatting/grammar/offence.

Call me old fashioned but I roam and play pvp because killing people is fun, not because I want gold from it.

I mean I find roaming fun. That’s why I play it.
PVE people find PVE content fun. That’s why they play it.
Raiding people find raiding fun. That’s why they play it too.
etc

All these different play the game mode they find fun, I expect all these players to also want gold to fund whatever they want to obtain.
And yet only PVE players get any sort of decent gold. Why? I guess Anet decided ditch the idea of PVE, PVP, WVW as modes which can be played individually and try to salvage the mode which has failed the least (PVE) abandoning the other two modes to oblivion.

Sell your heavy loot bags

Because you get a lot of those in roaming /s.

No offence but it takes me a week of pure roaming of about 2-3h each day to even get a full stack.

EDIT prices also drop last few months. I think now a stack is only worth 15g :’(

VunDola.7596:

Because you get a lot of those in roaming /s.

No offence but it takes me a week of pure roaming of about 2-3h each day to even get a full stack.

EDIT prices also drop last few months. I think now a stack is only worth 15g :’(

Odd. All I do is roam and scout and I get about 40-50 a day.

Maybe more to fight in EU?

vespers.1759:

Call me old fashioned but I roam and play pvp because killing people is fun, not because I want gold from it.

This.

And OP, after they make upgrades automatic (aka, not cost any money), the only gold sinks left in WvW are foods. That’s it. Pretty sure even your roaming can pay for food. If you want pretty armor, you have to PvE. Is that “fair”? Meh, sure it’d be nice to have some WvW-specific skins to work toward, or some extra gold/rewards. But on my list of priorities for Anet when it comes to WvW, I have to say that those are pretty low down.

Jayne.9251:

VunDola.7596:

Because you get a lot of those in roaming /s.

No offence but it takes me a week of pure roaming of about 2-3h each day to even get a full stack.

EDIT prices also drop last few months. I think now a stack is only worth 15g :’(

Odd. All I do is roam and scout and I get about 40-50 a day.

Maybe more to fight in EU?

40 bags/day X 5 days of a week = 250bags. I suppose some people are completely satisfied with 15g a week. I also suppose that with your 15g/week income you somehow manage to still scrape enough money to afford your 50g a piece crafting of ascended weapons and armour.

BrickFurious.7169:

vespers.1759:

Call me old fashioned but I roam and play pvp because killing people is fun, not because I want gold from it.

This.

And OP, after they make upgrades automatic (aka, not cost any money), the only gold sinks left in WvW are foods. That’s it. Pretty sure even your roaming can pay for food. If you want pretty armor, you have to PvE. Is that “fair”? Meh, sure it’d be nice to have some WvW-specific skins to work toward, or some extra gold/rewards. But on my list of priorities for Anet when it comes to WvW, I have to say that those are pretty low down.

It is the sad state of wvw that Anet have multiple major issues to address in WVW which include the reward system.

Its just that I find it so sad and appalling that the majority of content released is PVE based and Anet have made no attempt to allocate a larger budget/manpower to fix these problems.

Isn’t WvW more designed for siege capturing/large scale battles though? The masteries, and titles seem to lean toward that thinking.

Roaming is like GvG, it’s just a different way to play WvW, and way more enjoyable to some of us and they should promote more ways to play it, but I don’t know how well they can really balance rewards between things. This isn’t to say they shouldn’t try to find a way to, but they probably need ideas because it seems like a difficult problem as a whole. I think things should be looked at as well, but I honestly have no constructive idea how.

Generally the most fun things are least rewarding money wise in most of my game experiences, but if I’m having fun then I’ll take that over some digital gold I had to suffer through a few hours of things I hate. Life sucks sometimes, yo.

“Follow the Money” quoth the guru.

vespers.1759:

Call me old fashioned but I roam and play pvp because killing people is fun, not because I want gold from it.

+1.

I hear people complain about WvW rewards all the time. As someone who spends the majority of her time solo roaming, scouting, upgrading, doing the thankless jobs, I do it because I like to not because I expect loot from it. Of course, rewards are nice but loot chests and embriodered pouches aren’t what I’m out for. It’s to have fights and to get better as a player. To have encounters like last night where someone messages me and says they were amazed how good I was. I’m not concerned about rewards, just about having fun and becoming a better player.

Of course, we’re all entitled to our opinions and some of us might have more fun when we’re being rewarded. Still, I find it a bit sad that people need to be enticed with loot (or money in the real world) to do something they should enjoy doing for free.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Of course, we’re all entitled to our opinions and some of us might have more fun when we’re being rewarded. Still, I find it a bit sad that people need to be enticed with loot (or money in the real world) to do something they should enjoy doing for free.

Personally, I would find the overall game to be more enjoyable if they improved the rewards in wvw. Not because of “OMG GOLD” but rather that I do not have to dive into PVE content which I don’t want to be playing to obtain the gold I need to get X ascended weapon for my new spec or Y gem item to improve my quality of life in game.

I want to be able to spend as much time enjoying the game, doing content I want to do and still be able to obtain the items for new builds and specs which change with each update. I am not able to spend 1-2 hours a day doing my daily pve gold run, I understand many of you might be able to. But many more get burnt out by this after months of doing such thing.

+1 Props to you if you play with one build and never make any build alterations or try any new specs.

We all know anet doesnt really care much for WvW, we’re still complaining about the lag since launch.

We basically have to live with what we got, and be quiet about it.

But if you ask me HoT is, as OP also said, going to make things worse, it’ll become an even worse zerging mode where the main objective will be to defend the mega Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon which can destroy all gates of all enemy towers slowly and without a need to be at their gates.

You still need gold if you want to fully equip another character, or even change around your mains for a different spec with a new set of armor and weapons and runes and sigils and foods and oils, those are not always cheap especially ascended. I mean how many of you have really spent the last 3 years playing the one class and only one spec?

I don’t need gold to make myself feel like Scrooge Mcduck, I want gold so I can play around with different specs, easy to do in spvp not so much in wvw. WvW rewards are lacking even compared to eotm. Yes at the end of the days it’s about the fights, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be properly rewarded like everyone else playing the game, so get off the high horses already.

It’s a valid request to make the game mode we all love just as rewarding as spending time in pve. I hate ktraining in silverwastes, it’s so kitten boring.

P.S I find it better to open the heavy loot bags and sell the mats, sell the bags if you really want to make a quick buck.

P.P.S You won’t get an answer in the wvw forums, devs don’t respond here.

Imo, GW1 had a nice balance between PvE and PvP. I prefer to play PvP over PvE in most games, but GW1 had enough rare and specific boss items that I was actually interested in playing that game mode. It was fun to unlock skills and make the hero builds and that’s what kept me playing PvE in GW1.

In GW2 however, I despise PvE. I find it repetitive and boring and you just farm it to gain enough tokens to buy terrible looking dungeon armor skins and save up enough over extremely long periods of time to buy extremely expensive skins to look the same as the next player over.

Nowadays, you see people with MULTIPLE legendaries everywhere. Its not special or unique, not to mention with the exact same armor/weapons to choose from, most of these people look very similar anyways. It’s just dull and boring and tedious.

GW1 had less grind than GW2 and that’s what ANet was trying to get rid of when they were making this game. Instead of removing it, they just made the process even longer and more drawn out.

Badges of Honor need to be able to be sold to a merchant. You get none for killing uplevels and 2 for every 80. There needs to be a vendor in WvW that you can sell your badges to for 20s/badge. So, for example, killing 5 80s would net you 2 gold.

Anet isn’t removing progress made by vet players so they’re not shafting them with the change.

Anet is removing the gold sinks so now vet and committed players won’t be as poor.

Anet are trying to encourage more people into WvW by making it more casual friendly (note, casual is what this MMO is advertised as) and inviting.

Auto upgrades mean no longer will a new player start an upgrade and drain sups annoying vet players.

Now onto the real meat.

Vet players are in some part responsible for the current state of WvW, server stacking, tier manipulation in NA, raging at newer players, not being friendly and welcoming. Sure some make an effort to be warm and inviting but a lot more do not and a lot of “vet players” are remarkably silent if asked in chat anything.

By the way if you’re complaining about no longer being able to solo stuff, welcome to MMOs where you’re generally supposed to team up to do stuff.

P.S. All this complaining and on the very same forum page is a Dev actively wanting to join different servers and engage with vet players and experience the fun of WvW. Admittedly not in a work fashion but it will spill over on the ideas table when changes are suggested.

apharma.3741:

P.S. All this complaining and on the very same forum page is a Dev actively wanting to join different servers and engage with vet players and experience the fun of WvW. Admittedly not in a work fashion but it will spill over on the ideas table when changes are suggested.

He’s not a “game dev” he’s the wvw sheriff, I don’t expect ideas will flow through him. If he manages to suggest some good things from his play time on servers to the wvw devs, then great but I wouldn’t get my hopes up on that.

VunDola.7596:

Jayne.9251:

VunDola.7596:

Because you get a lot of those in roaming /s.

No offence but it takes me a week of pure roaming of about 2-3h each day to even get a full stack.

EDIT prices also drop last few months. I think now a stack is only worth 15g :’(

Odd. All I do is roam and scout and I get about 40-50 a day.

Maybe more to fight in EU?

40 bags/day X 5 days of a week = 250bags. I suppose some people are completely satisfied with 15g a week. I also suppose that with your 15g/week income you somehow manage to still scrape enough money to afford your 50g a piece crafting of ascended weapons and armour.

Eh I learned long ago not to play WvW for the loot. 15g a day is fine with me, it just goes back into buying siege and upgrades anyhow.

If you want good loot, go spend a couple hours in PVE land, you’ll earn it much faster there.

Save WvW for intellectual challenges (if you scout) and other fun.

WvW isn’t a gamemode made to farm loot. Go PvE for that, or EotM. WvW is supposed to be more akin to your classic deathmatch game combined with an RTS where the reward lies within winning or losing the matchup and the fights. How well Anet has accomplished this is a perfectly valid question, but it’s beside the point.

More loot in WvW is a bad thing for WvW. Once the focus in the gamemode changes from competition to farm, the gamemode is “dead” and all that remain is a bunch of bored PvE’ers changing up their usual SW/world boss farm with a gate-bashing karma train. Recoqnize this? Yeah, seems strangely similar to EotM, does it not?

Ultimately, people who are whining about loot are fundamentally missing the point of WvW and should either stop and realize that it might not be the game for them, or try to change their views on it to find fun in other things than those that are not there. The worst thing you can do is to try and change it into something it’s not supposed to be.

splatticus.1278:

WvW isn’t a gamemode made to farm loot. Go PvE for that, or EotM. WvW is supposed to be more akin to your classic deathmatch game combined with an RTS where the reward lies within winning or losing the matchup and the fights. How well Anet has accomplished this is a perfectly valid question, but it’s beside the point.

Really? cause I see spvp being the game mode that you don’t farm loot for, and yet, hello, you can now farm pve loot from it. WvW is the one that actually uses pve gear, so why should you not be able to farm loot from it? From the reasons given I still don’t see why wvw should be held back on rewards in line with the rest of the game.

WvW should just get reward tracks like sPVP. But I wish you could reward the players who really try in WvW.

Today there was a commander who refused to stay tagged up with only 8 people following. He would tag down, even though we needed a commander to help defend our side of the map in EBG without his magic number of people, he refused to lead. He kept tagging up and people would collect around him, then he’d tag down again and go afk. So we ran around trying to defend by talking map chat. And it just made me angry, since none of the defenders had a tag, we couldn’t rally people to important points and we lost every point. Meanwhile the commander is still afk at spawn. I wish we could reward those few defenders who threw down their superiors siege, golems, and guild catas to try and defend and reclaim our points. They deserve the love, not the guy afk a spawn because he’s angry he can’t steam roll everything with a zerg.

And stories like this is why I just strick with PVE.

Coyote.7031:

WvW should just get reward tracks like sPVP. But I wish you could reward the players who really try in WvW.

Speaking of which, there’s a thread asking for more smaller task for wvw and the spvp type reward track is perfect for such a thing!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-needs-more-task-for-small-groups/first#post5123695

Xenesis.6389:

Speaking of which, there’s a thread asking for more smaller task for wvw and the spvp type reward track is perfect for such a thing!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-needs-more-task-for-small-groups/first#post5123695

While I agree, there are lots of tasks a small group or an individual can already do. Camps, sentries, refresh siege, place siege, run upgrades, towers, scout, dollies, etc. All of these could progress a reward track. You might need diminishing returns on some though, because you can afk in a keep for defense events, and follow dollies around with using illicit software, or throw down a 100 useless siege.

It would be nice to have some fun little events, like that capture the flag/hill thing he mentioned. I’m worried some of them might be more PVE focused, as populations fluctuate so much.

a reward track for WvW would most likely encourage more Ktraining, and would be very detrimental to the health of WvW overall.

Not if you turn the track around and reward only on certain conditions, such as not just defending garrison for the entire track. If you do conditions such as defense for each point of interest on the map, then the player will have to move and not sit afk in one spot. You also don’t put the rewards too great otherwise yes it would encourage zergs to go around ktraining instead.

There’s a balance that can be done to make sure things stay in order and doesn’t escalate into eotm. I’m looking at rewarding the smaller actions in the game, as such they wouldn’t earn you great rewards but at least it’s something to contribute in times when it’s not worth playing at all like outnumbered and barely anyone in your bl.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

a reward track for WvW would most likely encourage more Ktraining, and would be very detrimental to the health of WvW overall.

I would just use diminishing returns. So capping say 20 objectives in a hour would reward less than capturing 20 objectives in a day. Also Ktraining will never go away, and there’s nothing really wrong with it. You do it every time someone takes your side of the map or your borderlands, you wait for their population to dwindle, and then run in and snatch everything up in quick succession. Population imbalance is what allows ktraining to exist. If people did it just for the rewards, they would stay in EoTM or Silverwastes where the rewards are far better for less effort.

Example: 2 hours fighting in EBG got me 5 champ bags. 30 minutes in a key training in Silverwastes, got me 44. I also got 5 rare loot drops from bosses, and got 2 exotics in my baggies, one a very cool looking rail gun.

Ktraining is mindless and discourages a sense of cooperation which is the beauty of WvW — teamwork.

There are plenty of places to ktrain if you need that — EOTM, Silverwastes … leave WvW alone.

Coyote.7031:

WvW should just get reward tracks like sPVP. But I wish you could reward the players who really try in WvW.

Today there was a commander who refused to stay tagged up with only 8 people following. He would tag down, even though we needed a commander to help defend our side of the map in EBG without his magic number of people, he refused to lead. He kept tagging up and people would collect around him, then he’d tag down again and go afk. So we ran around trying to defend by talking map chat. And it just made me angry, since none of the defenders had a tag, we couldn’t rally people to important points and we lost every point. Meanwhile the commander is still afk at spawn. I wish we could reward those few defenders who threw down their superiors siege, golems, and guild catas to try and defend and reclaim our points. They deserve the love, not the guy afk a spawn because he’s angry he can’t steam roll everything with a zerg.

And stories like this is why I just strick with PVE.

While I have no idea who the commander was or what server you’re on, I can understand. It is and extremely painful and frustrating experience trying to command pugs. It makes me want to rip my hair out and throw my computer out the window. It’s doubly so when they don’t get into TS. These players are relatively useless and are mostly just fodder for the people in TS. One has to assume that only 5-10% will actually push with you in a fight, while the others just stand there getting killed or run away. This is why so many guilds run un-tagged, private raids.

But don’t worry, it was probably just a dead time for you’re server, and when the more active, organized guilds come on, they’ll cap stuff back.

Tag up and command yourself and see how terrible it is to command pugs.

Spurnshadow.3678:

While I have no idea who the commander was or what server you’re on, I can understand. It is and extremely painful and frustrating experience trying to command pugs. It makes me want to rip my hair out and throw my computer out the window. It’s doubly so when they don’t get into TS. These players are relatively useless and are mostly just fodder for the people in TS. One has to assume that only 5-10% will actually push with you in a fight, while the others just stand there getting killed or run away. This is why so many guilds run un-tagged, private raids.

But don’t worry, it was probably just a dead time for you’re server, and when the more active, organized guilds come on, they’ll cap stuff back.

Tag up and command yourself and see how terrible it is to command pugs.

He returned to spam chat with facts about genitals and copulation. =\ (In before someone calls me a prude.)

Also I think the attitude of “Your just fodder if you don’t get into TS” is a poor attitude. It’s really not that hard to stand on a tag. I don’t play a front line class, so I will never push directly with you. I generally play a venom share thief in groups. I give you venoms you and blasts when ever I see an applicable field go down and I play the vulture and pick off people who stray too far from the herd or offer emergency stealth. I don’t need to hear people ramble about genitals for an hour in TS to do any of these. =\

Also if you don’t like pugs, don’t tag up? Personally I think they just work well for a focal point. But that attitudes of the people I’ve met… I’d rather be one of those useless PVE players everyone rambles on about.

I’m actually in agreement with the OP here. I spend almost all of my playing time in WvW, and when hearing about my money problems, people tell me “Stop playing WvW and go farm The Silverwastes/Dungeons/Fractals.”
To do good havoc support, I need seige and food always available. Food is EXPENSIVE. To get the food that provides decent dps boosts it costs at least 10s a piece, which means that I’m paying 20s an hour to play at the level of other foes with food and stacks. This does not seem like a lot, but in WvW, I’m only getting a few blues and greens alongside the odd heavy loot bag, and when I break it down and sell it, I’m just barely turning a profit. This is without factoring in the cost of seige. Superior seige costs up to several gold a piece, and I can’t even begin to afford more than a small handful of superior seige without injecting money into the game.
Running with the zerg isn’t very profitable either. An hour with the zerg gets me about 1 or 2g. This is rediculous when I literally spent only an hour in the silverwastes, and I got a Carapace Leg and Chest loot box, along with several other exotics and tons of expensive mats. Overall, I made over 10g from that. I almost never make 10g in a day of WvW, even when I get an exotic drop.
I understand that some people think that is is normal to not get rewarded for having fun, but that isn’t what GW2 is about. The development team is against forcing people to do hours of mindless farming instead of something that they find fun. WvW is a fun playstyle that many people participate in. Shouldn’t it be just as rewarding as PvE?

Cecilia.5179:

I understand that some people think that is is normal to not get rewarded for having fun, but that isn’t what GW2 is about. The development team is against forcing people to do hours of mindless farming instead of something that they find fun. WvW is a fun playstyle that many people participate in. Shouldn’t it be just as rewarding as PvE?

I completely agree that WvW isn’t very rewarding, nowhere near as rewarding as Silverwastes/other PvE. I think most of our complaints were with the OP identifying lack of WvW rewards as seemingly their #1 complaint with WvW (enough to make them “angry”) when in reality there are far more pressing problems with WvW.

The problem with increasing rewards in WvW is finding a way to do it without causing unintended side-effects. Increase the rewards for taking objectives? It’ll just encourage karma-training and players stacking on servers so they can take objectives from defenseless servers more easily. Increase the rewards for killing players? That encourages zerging too at a minimum (it’s a lot easier and faster to kill players in big groups) and may also encourage kill-trading like what we’ve seen with people OS farming. Increase rewards for defending objectives? That may encourage players to just turtle up in objectives and never go out and fight.

Even adding rewards tracks like in PvP, which many have asked for (and I personally am somewhat in favor of too) has the potential to backfire, if players figure out they can advance their reward track faster by stacking on a more populated server/karma-training in off-hours/blobbing up more.

TL;DR: Rewards in a PvP game mode are really tricky to do right, and have incredible potential for generating unintended and undesired player behavior. It’s an extremely delicate balance. Most of us are fine with rewards being mediocre for this reason, as long as the action in WvW itself is fun.

BrickFurious.7169:

TL;DR: Rewards in a PvP game mode are really tricky to do right, and have incredible potential for generating unintended and undesired player behavior. It’s an extremely delicate balance. Most of us are fine with rewards being mediocre for this reason, as long as the action in WvW itself is fun.

While balance “can be tricky” I have to disagree with you concerning the reward.
WvW requires around the clock player coverage, or it quickly becomes just a plowfest or ghost town. Keeping wvw players engaged and active can be the difference between keeping them… or having a wvw player exodus.

They improved rewards once they added champ bag for every lord in tower/keep and then the kitten ed k-trains started, where only 1 side gets significant rewards – the attacking side. Defenders only get the “Event Succeded” – here is a bit of your karma and experience and some bags if you manage to kill the attackers before they run away. Not even gonna mention that in most cases you have to hide inside the tower and pretend to not be there, so that the attackers think ‘Oh, empty tower, let’s take it!’ – then you jump out with your siege disabler shouting ‘Surprise xxxxx!’

I don’t know how the opener want’s roaming to be rewarded. Do you want to get better rewards for flipping camps or informing your commander about enemy positions? Or do you want more ‘stuff’ for killing random guys running here and there in who knows what zerg build they are in? Strategical roaming or yolo-solo-gankerino roaming just to kill other players?

So far the most efficient in ‘giving bags’ is either going EoTM and pvdooring whole months killing any uplvl on your way with your zerg OR joining good organized zerg and farming other zergs in WvW (don’t mistake WvW =/= EoTM), so I think you should do one of these to get ‘more’.

Roaming is like if you go pve and kill mobs in some low lvl map 1 by 1, but you expect to get big rewards from it. For big rewards you have to do big events like teq, wurm or spend days in SW – yes, zerging is still the most rewarding thing in this game, pve or wvw doesn’t matter… Even in pvp you do things faster and more efficent by jumping 1-2 guys with your 3-4 or abusing the downed state and purposely not finishing off your enemies to gain more time for capping circles and earning points that way. Quantity > quality in most cases.

Increasing rewards would be tricky to implement without making wvw the next SW farm-fest. People would show up simply to ktrain for the increased rewards and would ignore any calls to defend Bay/Hills/Garri/etc. How aggravating would this be to the players defending? Knowing that you have tons of people on the server, but also knowing that they’re all running off to cap that useless paper tower for the increased reward while your garri is being overrun?
About the only way you might be able to tie in the rewards and keep people from ktraining things endlessly would be to somehow attach the increased rewards to actual human opponent bags. That way, at least people would be forced to confront an actual human enemy for the possibility of the rewards. Not sure of the coding involved, but pretty sure that’s possible. That might also encourage more participation in wvw population.

Not to mention it would make it a nightmare for any organized guild to effectively get onto a single map together — it’s sometimes difficult now to do that.

In t1 maybe? I’m pretty sure lower tiers would gladly accept those guilds.

This is NA we’re talking about Atoss

EU already spreads out.

I totally agree.