Guild Wars 2

This may have been mentioned before and I do apologise if it has. But this is very important and needs to be addressed as WvW is pretty much the end game.

The game is lop sided enough, why does the winning team need a buff to stats at all?

The game is all decided which team manages to get the orb buff first, once they have it, they are in the lead for the rest of the week.

If you don’t believe this buff is OP, then I challenge you to join the opposing team and see what it’s like from the otherside of the fence. If you’re losing, join the winning team, if you’re winning join the losing team. You will see how ridiculously easy it is with the buff and stupid hard it is against a team with the buff.

yup, this buff and the outmanned buff should be changed around, currently the outmanned buff is encouraging you to do pve

Yep. Completely agree.

Oh you have all 3 orbs you obviously need more health.

Oh you’re outnumbered have some extra magic find, karma, and exp.

Poor decision making.

I personally think there should be two seperate buffs. Numbers would be balanced accordingly.

Outmanned Provided to a team if they are outnumbered by a single server by more than X/1

- Players Health is increased by X%
- Players gains X to all stats
- Player Movement speed is increased by X%

Overwhelmed Provided to a team if thier point gain is below +X

- Damage verus fortifications by players and siege is increased by X%
- Health of friendly fortifications and guards increased by X%
- Damage of friendly guards is increased by X%

Orbs

Orbs should still hold value. But it should have diminishing returns for each orb you hold after the first, still giving orbs value while not being as powerful the more you own.

If a team owns a Single Orb they get 5% health and 50 to all stats.
If a team owns Two Orbs they get 8% health 80 to all stats.
If a team owns all Three Orbs they get 9% health and 90 to all stats.

orbs are just like relics in DAOC and in DAOC you had no switching who you got to fight . Relics worked fine in DAOC , and they will work fine here to , just once the problems calm down like all the zerging. You gotta keep in mind this is a watered down version of DAOC frontiers , this isnt going to last for a long time people are already getting bored of the zerging. Give it another month tops and i bet you see a huge difference

/Facepalm

No they are not fine! Have you played on a dominant server? Have you played on a server getting steam rolled? Have you played on both sides of the fence?

When I first started WvW I was on a server that was getting dominated, even in a 1v1 fight (wasn’t aware of the orb buff) I thought to myself, kitten I must be seriously under geared as I normally play well in sPVP.

One day I got sick of getting slaughtered and switched to the winning team, I noticed this Orb buff 15% more HP and 150 to all stats?? WTF?

I wasn’t only rofl stomping other players 1v1, even 2 or three of them didn’t stand a chance against me!

Now tell me again how you think “Orbs are fine”

If this isn’t fixed soon, I’ll definitely be migrating to another game, I can see other people doing the same, as after you get over all the pretty PVE content, the only thing left is PVP/WvW and in it’s current state it’s broken and not fun for the losing servers (66.6%)

I feel it would be cool if orbs ONLY affected Eternal Battleground. Then you’d have a heavy synergy between EB and the borderlands…. You’d need people to win the borderlands to have a shot at winning EB.

Add a display for how many people are in each borderland so we know which one to join for maximum impact, and we’d be good to go.

I never used to think the orbs were that great an advantage, but after being on the receiving end of 3xOrb invaders for the 1st time last night (admittedly I was on the verge of passing out just jumped on quickly after work, totally not on my game) it is a slaughter. Never had a repair bill like that.

It felt like I had gone from being able to tank 8 people for long enough for me to get mykittenouta the fire, to being squished by 3 people before the lag would even let me cast something.

On our server one of the orbs is invisible and another just reset itself after the alter broke. Cool system….

Kralous.7563:

I never used to think the orbs were that great an advantage, but after being on the receiving end of 3xOrb invaders for the 1st time last night (admittedly I was on the verge of passing out just jumped on quickly after work, totally not on my game) it is a slaughter. Never had a repair bill like that.

It felt like I had gone from being able to tank 8 people for long enough for me to get mykittenouta the fire, to being squished by 3 people before the lag would even let me cast something.

The only players that don’t see it as a problem, are the players that haven’t experienced it from both sides of the fence.

This may have been mentioned before and I do apologise if it has.

Of course not man, its not like there’s an orb complaint on the front page of this forum already… and the second page, and the third…

No they are not fine! Have you played on a dominant server? Have you played on a server getting steam rolled? Have you played on both sides of the fence?

When I first started WvW I was on a server that was getting dominated, even in a 1v1 fight (wasn’t aware of the orb buff) I thought to myself, kitten I must be seriously under geared as I normally play well in sPVP.

One day I got sick of getting slaughtered and switched to the winning team, I noticed this Orb buff 15% more HP and 150 to all stats?? WTF?

Yeah, they are fine. Yeah, I have played at times where we held all three and times where all three were held against us.

Here’s the problem: you don’t read. The effects of the orb buff are clearly stated at any point if you have even one, or if you take a glance at the opponents buffs. If it took you a world transfer to even figure out what the orb buff does, you have bigger problems than the enemy holding all three.

It seems that even after the game has been out for a month, people still fail to realize the importance of orbs. They queue up endlessly for EB to fight at SM, they ignore borderlands that don’t belong to their world, they zerg locations of secondary and tertiary importance.

Orbs are the single most powerful buff in WvW. More important than the stat bonus they provide is that they apply to all four maps. But as is usual in too many games, when people finally start realizing which objectives are important, they complain about them on the forums and ask for changes instead of adjusting their play and tactics.

Stop whining about “OMG orbs too good” and start capturing them for your world.

HellsMachine.4083:

/Facepalm

No they are not fine! Have you played on a dominant server? Have you played on a server getting steam rolled? Have you played on both sides of the fence?

When I first started WvW I was on a server that was getting dominated, even in a 1v1 fight (wasn’t aware of the orb buff) I thought to myself, kitten I must be seriously under geared as I normally play well in sPVP.

One day I got sick of getting slaughtered and switched to the winning team, I noticed this Orb buff 15% more HP and 150 to all stats?? WTF?

I wasn’t only rofl stomping other players 1v1, even 2 or three of them didn’t stand a chance against me!

Now tell me again how you think “Orbs are fine”

If this isn’t fixed soon, I’ll definitely be migrating to another game, I can see other people doing the same, as after you get over all the pretty PVE content, the only thing left is PVP/WvW and in it’s current state it’s broken and not fun for the losing servers (66.6%)

I have spent over 150hours in WvW being on the both sides of the barricade and i tell you, orbs are fine. You, People, just need to stop whine about everything aroud in WvW. I bet you are from Underworld or 1 of the bottom servers.

The orbs themselves are not the issue. They are an objective and as such should be giving a meaningful and powerful buff to the realm holding them.

The problem is how easy they are to get when severely outnumbered on the map. Not only nightcappers get them easily, but then they have the luxury to raise top notch defenses as well in the keep before any real fight comes.

ANet has to find a solution to the outmanned problem. Once that’s done, it will be much better.

The devs stated from the start that Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be about everyone being able to play on a level playing field.

When I go up against someone that has 15% more HP and 150 more than all stats, this is not level. If I wanted to play game that was all about stats, I wouldn’t be playing GW2.

Take these performance enhancing orb buffs away and replace it with something else.

It was totally balanced until we lost all 3 orbs! :P

HellsMachine.4083:

The devs stated from the start that Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be about everyone being able to play on a level playing field.

When I go up against someone that has 15% more HP and 150 more than all stats, this is not level. If I wanted to play game that was all about stats, I wouldn’t be playing GW2.

Take these performance enhancing orb buffs away and replace it with something else.

You have a citation for the claim that the devs have stated that? Because every aspect of WvWvW proves that false.

Next you will demand that everyone have exactly the same stats, right? After all, you have already stated that “When I go up against someone that has 15% more HP and 150 more than all stats, this is not level.” Oh, and I guess there should be only one class, with just a single build.

For the record, I play on a server that is currently fighting against a server with all 3 orbs. I will let you in on a secret, the orbs are fine. I can promise you, if they change the orbs you will just find something else to blame on your losing (and no doubt come to the forums demanding it too is changed).

My suggestion would be to fight out side of eternal battlegrounds. In case you didnt notice that is where the orbs are. They need to be obtained and defended always.
It is sad that this is a L2P issue, realize what map has what objective and learn to play.
There is more than SM in WvW.

PvE bonuses only, all fixed.

Narkosys.5173:

My suggestion would be to fight out side of eternal battlegrounds. In case you didnt notice that is where the orbs are. They need to be obtained and defended always.
It is sad that this is a L2P issue, realize what map has what objective and learn to play.
There is more than SM in WvW.

Once a team has all 3 orbs and has the defenses heavily upgraded, it doesn’t matter how many players you throw at it. Even with only 10 players defending it, it’s not going down.

HellsMachine.4083:

Narkosys.5173:

My suggestion would be to fight out side of eternal battlegrounds. In case you didnt notice that is where the orbs are. They need to be obtained and defended always.
It is sad that this is a L2P issue, realize what map has what objective and learn to play.
There is more than SM in WvW.

Once a team has all 3 orbs and has the defenses heavily upgraded, it doesn’t matter how many players you throw at it. Even with only 10 players defending it, it’s not going down.

Completely wrong. Green server on saturday night took all 3 orbs and 75% of all maps in a few minutes and held them for nearly 24h.

The other servers, on the next evening (not night), took back their lands and their orbs and one of them stole green orb as well, completely switching the landscape.

If you lose your orb, stop whining and get it back.

I think the orb bonuses are completely fine. The problem with one team completely dominating all other teams (like 90% control at all times, everywhere) had more to do with matchmaking. I’m on Emhry, and we were absolutely dominating Fergs and Borlis for all of last round, but that had less to do with the orb bonus and more to do with what was brought to the table. We had a lot more people spending money on upgrades and siege. We had more high-level players with good gear (which does, and SHOULD make a major difference), and we were better organized.

This round, however, we are up against Tarnished Coast and Maguuma and the fighting’s been pretty even. Orbs have been changing hands, SM’s been taken and retaken a couple dozen times, and all in all it’s a lot more fun than when we were farming Borlies and Fergs for badges like they were mobs.

Now, I agree that Outmanned needs to give bonuses that make sense for PvP. Magic find? Seriously? That’s silly. But orbs are powerful objects that need to be constantly defended and are hard to get, while providing valuable bonuses to those who control them. You know what else provides powerful bonuses to the side that controls them, and requires teamwork and strategy to take? How about everything. Why not just get rid of keeps, towers, supply camps, etc, and just have one big field where we all run out and hit each other with sticks? No, leave orbs as they are. Maybe remove the +15% health or tone it down as they ALSO buff vitality, but no more than that.

Just give the matchmaking system more time to find out where servers actually stand. A few more cycles and we’ll have much better matchups, which are the real issue. Having three orbs is NOT an I Win button. Remember that in every WvW map, EVERY side is outnumbered 2 to 1. If one side is dominating both other sides, it isn’t the orbs’ fault.

I also think the bonus health and stat bonus from the orbs might be a bit extreme. Our server had 2 orbs yesterday and it felt unfair to have that much more stats and HP than the opposing realms.

I really don’t see the need to buff the already winning team and can see the need to buff the people who are outnumbered to give them a fighting chance. I SUSPECT they will change this after servers start balancing out more and they continue to make changes to wvwvw.

The orbs do give a bit too much, my server is last this week so far and we have crap for health and damage is barely noticeable while we take 4500+ damage per hit from an enemy with 2 or more orbs.

Last week my server was dominating (490K to 60K and 40K) and now we got matched up with tougher servers and now realize why we dominated the other two servers.

Losing team should at least get a health or toughness buff while winning team should get extra reinforcements at sieges, IMO they shouldn’t boost damage done.

here’s the damage from a single player with the 3 orb buff. That plus being outnumbered caused most of our server players to just leave.

Just switch the outmanned buff and the orb buff and I feel the wvw will be more enjoyable.

HellsMachine.4083:

Kralous.7563:

I never used to think the orbs were that great an advantage, but after being on the receiving end of 3xOrb invaders for the 1st time last night (admittedly I was on the verge of passing out just jumped on quickly after work, totally not on my game) it is a slaughter. Never had a repair bill like that.

It felt like I had gone from being able to tank 8 people for long enough for me to get mykittenouta the fire, to being squished by 3 people before the lag would even let me cast something.

The only players that don’t see it as a problem, are the players that haven’t experienced it from both sides of the fence.

Yeap. I knew they were strong. But having now seen 3 orbs on one team. Completely changes WvW tactics. And its clearly too much. had no idea just how large an advantage it was.
Its literally like having full exotics vs someone in white gear.

as others have stated orb buffs should be what outmanned gives. (although karma, exp, etc are not desirable enough to make orbs good.)

The other problem is orb placement.
1. They start undefended effectively. A home team needs to let another team steal the orb. kill the carrier, THEN move it to garrison, in a protected position. That is itself a very strange setup.
2. Why are they placed in strongholds at all? This makes holding orbs way way too easy. Especially for their benefits.
Orbs should be live balls. Alters should be either outside keeps entirely. Or in outer courtyards, so only the outer gates/walls need to be dropped to assault and steal an orb.

I love the concept of the orb, but I do agree that their implementation should be done differently. It does make it very difficult for a low pop server being dominated when the dominating server gets such great stats benefits.

Personally what I’d like to see is orb buffs give something like +magic find and +xp, money per kill, badges, or whatever. Make it worthwhile to have, but don’t make it give a winning edge to a server that already has the winning edge.

If all things were equal I think the buffs would be great, as in equal fights they provide only a slight advantage, and I definitely don’t want to see them be useless. But they do need to change the “How is” I believe.

Teknobug.3782:

The orbs do give a bit too much, my server is last this week so far and we have crap for health and damage is barely noticeable while we take 4500+ damage per hit from an enemy with 2 or more orbs.

Last week my server was dominating (490K to 60K and 40K) and now we got matched up with tougher servers and now realize why we dominated the other two servers.

Losing team should at least get a health or toughness buff while winning team should get extra reinforcements at sieges, IMO they shouldn’t boost damage done.

here’s the damage from a single player with the 3 orb buff. That plus being outnumbered caused most of our server players to just leave.

In all fairness Hundred Blades is currently OP as kitten without the orbs so while I agree with what your saying, your example isn’t really fair.

@HellsMachine
ANet never stated that WvW would put players on an equal playing field. In fact, there are interviews that they explicitly stated that WvW would never be a balanced fight. You’re mixing their statements about sPvP and WvW.

Teknobug.3782:

here’s the damage from a single player with the 3 orb buff. That plus being outnumbered caused most of our server players to just leave.

GoM only had one orb at that time… my server (Black Gate) has held the other two for several days now. The only reason GoM still has an orb is because it is glitched.

Just curious, are you on Yak’s Bend?

[img]http://s13.postimage.org/iewrqidb9/omgtheorbguis.png[/img]

This formatting…. this formatting…

Casia.4281:

Yeap. I knew they were strong. But having now seen 3 orbs on one team. Completely changes WvW tactics. And its clearly too much. had no idea just how large an advantage it was.

Teknobug.3782:

…now we got matched up with tougher servers and now realize why we dominated the other two servers.

As I’ve often said before, this here is precisely the problem. Its not the orbs themselves; its that people don’t understand how powerful the bonus is. And as usual, once people get it, they come here to complain instead of going to capture orbs.

as others have stated orb buffs should be what outmanned gives. (although karma, exp, etc are not desirable enough to make orbs good.)

You’ve suggested a change and outlined the problem with making exactly that change in the very next sentence! Full points.

Queues for EB are already much longer than for borderlands as it stands, and taking away the orbs current effects would make this even worse. Not to mention anet has already nerfed capture bonuses due to people trading objectives for max karma/gold/xp, meaning that having an orb effect that increases those rewards (enough to be meaningful) would bring that issue back again.

The other problem is orb placement.
1. They start undefended effectively. A home team needs to let another team steal the orb. kill the carrier, THEN move it to garrison, in a protected position. That is itself a very strange setup.
2. Why are they placed in strongholds at all? This makes holding orbs way way too easy. Especially for their benefits.
Orbs should be live balls. Alters should be either outside keeps entirely. Or in outer courtyards, so only the outer gates/walls need to be dropped to assault and steal an orb.

There’s nothing wrong with the current setup for where orbs start, as it gives all sides a reasonable chance of capture. Further, since there are three borderlands, every world has an equal chance to handle the problem of capturing from each starting position.

As for it being too easy to hold them, that will change as people start focusing on them more. If your keep is being besieged from both sides by two opposing forces, it’s basically guaranteed to fall.

Nucleotides.6928:

I really don’t see the need to buff the already winning team and can see the need to buff the people who are outnumbered to give them a fighting chance. I SUSPECT they will change this after servers start balancing out more and they continue to make changes to wvwvw.

Erbun.3564:

I love the concept of the orb, but I do agree that their implementation should be done differently. It does make it very difficult for a low pop server being dominated when the dominating server gets such great stats benefits.

These are matchmaking issues. My server is currently going against Crystal Desert and Dragonbrand, both of which we heavily outmatch (200+ point ranking difference). For all that, we have never held more than two orbs. Even now we hold only one (one is bugged) and DB holds the other, and though they don’t have enough people to match us (we own our borderlands top to bottom) they keep the map where they hold an orb at max population all the times and defend it with efficiency.

Nothing is going to change the fact that we’re going to win, but even against such odds CD and DB have shown its still possible to fight/hold/capture orbs with good play.

HellsMachine.4083:

/Facepalm

No they are not fine! Have you played on a dominant server? Have you played on a server getting steam rolled? Have you played on both sides of the fence?

When I first started WvW I was on a server that was getting dominated, even in a 1v1 fight (wasn’t aware of the orb buff) I thought to myself, kitten I must be seriously under geared as I normally play well in sPVP.

One day I got sick of getting slaughtered and switched to the winning team, I noticed this Orb buff 15% more HP and 150 to all stats?? WTF?

I wasn’t only rofl stomping other players 1v1, even 2 or three of them didn’t stand a chance against me!

Now tell me again how you think “Orbs are fine”

If this isn’t fixed soon, I’ll definitely be migrating to another game, I can see other people doing the same, as after you get over all the pretty PVE content, the only thing left is PVP/WvW and in it’s current state it’s broken and not fun for the losing servers (66.6%)

I hate to say this but servers getting steamrolled are not getting steamrolled because of the orbs, they certainly add to it, but in a very marginal way.

General lack of understanding and coordination is the problem on servers that lose a lot (barring other issues like low populations). The servers doing the steamrolling often have 3-4 major WvW focused Guilds that give them the edge, not the orbs.

Another option – orb bonus only present when you’re within the SMC walls.. it it give substantial bonus that is focused, but not totally dominating all maps like they do now.

Or, you know, get organized?

Orbs are fine as they are, if you are getting steamrolled now you will still be getting steamrolled if they are removed. It is happening, not because orbs exist, but because you cannot organize and communicate effectively. Orbs are just a rationalization, if they get removed you all will just find something else to claim is causing your poor performance (and, obviously, will need removing also).

I’ve fought against a server with 3 orbs and by being organized we where able to take them back.

I can see from loot bags and even damage done that often there are many out there who are not level 80 (in fact many who are under 30). While players are buffed up its not the same as even a level 50-60 with gear. They are still missing huge chunks of their stats.

I played in Fissure of Woe for a While. Then I swtiched sides in order to see how’s the game from a 3-orbs point of view. Then I waited until 2:00 AM the reset, trying to improve my server status. Opposing team zerged all 3 orbs in 10 minutes, then built all upgrades in each keep, there was nothing we could do. Orbs should start in garrison or should be movable by you own team. This would fix a lot.

Hald Degli Strock.1304:

I played in Fissure of Woe for a While. Then I swtiched sides in order to see how’s the game from a 3-orbs point of view. Then I waited until 2:00 AM the reset, trying to improve my server status. Opposing team zerged all 3 orbs in 10 minutes, then built all upgrades in each keep, there was nothing we could do. Orbs should start in garrison or should be movable by you own team. This would fix a lot.

This I can agree on. The initial placement of the Orbs makes it far too easy for a server to aqcuire all the within the first hour of a reset. Subsequent attempts to take the orbs face much higher natural defenses. If anything, this should be flipped.