Guild Wars 2

And I like it as a roamer, I have Applied Fortitude and weapons for stacking sigils. As an ele, I had stats of 3550 Atk, 2400 Armor, 20k health, 45% crit chance and 60 Crit damage.
Basically an elementalist with warrior stats, lol. I went roaming that day and I destroyed everything on the orbs that was trying to capture it easy. 1v2, 2v3 and etc.

One can also argue that having the right WvW rank/skills and killing 5 NPCs is also OP vs someone who doesn’t have the same buff, but I’ve yet to hear any complaint about this. In our current matchup with JQ/BG, either of them having an “orb” buff is not something that bothers me too much. Granted, it isn’t exactly safe to be solo in such a matchup either, since 4-5 warrior/guardian/thief players having Applied Fortitude, food buff, etc. will make short work of my engineer. Elementalists, on the other hand, are excellent roamers vs those classes.

JudgeD.5673:

One can also argue that having the right WvW rank/skills and killing 5 NPCs is also OP vs someone who doesn’t have the same buff, but I’ve yet to hear any complaint about this. In our current matchup with JQ/BG, either of them having an “orb” buff is not something that bothers me too much. Granted, it isn’t exactly safe to be solo in such a matchup either, since 4-5 warrior/guardian/thief players having Applied Fortitude, food buff, etc. will make short work of my engineer. Elementalists, on the other hand, are excellent roamers vs those classes.

The orb definitely had an effect on our fight vs JQ and BG.

Didn’t engage BG that much, but there were at least two fights with JQ where it was obvious the 2x orb buff they had made a difference.

The main one was defending Ogrewatch from their zerg. We had a whole kill chute made up with ACs at the entrance and around the Lord’s room. OW was defended by a sentry crew of about ten, and our zerg arrived just as JQ made it through the first line of AC’s In total numbers, they probably had about 15-20% more people than us.

Before the buff, it would have been a close fight, and we would have won. As it was, we won the first part of the engagement, and had them scattered. But, because of the buff, we just weren’t able to finish enough of them off. They were able to regroup behind the Lord’s room, and from there focus fire in the circle until they capped it.

The other fight was just engaging the back end of a JQ zerg that was somewhat scattered and running. Again, we would have been able to take down a lot of them individually. But because of the buff, many more were able to get away than before.

Also, the atmosphere in WvW was somewhat funereal. It could go either way, but, WvW could end up being something people only do because of the social ties. With Ascended meta lock-in, skill-killing orb buffs, and further competition-draining changes like the Leagues, the rational choice will be to invest much less in it.

JudgeD.5673:

One can also argue that having the right WvW rank/skills and killing 5 NPCs is also OP vs someone who doesn’t have the same buff, but I’ve yet to hear any complaint about this.

Then you haven’t been listening.

Benjamin.6235:

JudgeD.5673:

One can also argue that having the right WvW rank/skills and killing 5 NPCs is also OP vs someone who doesn’t have the same buff, but I’ve yet to hear any complaint about this.

Then you haven’t been listening.

QFT.

The Guard buff came out when WXP was new so it took time for players to get full access to those buffs. This meant that the true impact of those buffs has only become apparent over time. People have been complaining about it but the boiled frog syndrome has meant the number of complaints has been far lower than if the full buff had been available when it was first released. The Bloodlust buff on the other hand arrived at full power so it’s triggered a much more immediate reaction.

So there has been complaint? My first post came after time spent in my home server BL trying to maintain our “home” bloodlust (out of boredom I think). I kept encountering players (a few solo but several in groups) from the other servers who were ranked higher than me and had both Applied fortitude and the Guard Killer buff. I probably should have at least got my full stack of Applied Fortitude myself, but I did not in an effort to see what kind of difference there was. There is a noticeable difference in not having these buffs (except food) versus being fully buffed. I am not complaining, just pointing out Bloodlust is not the only “OP” mechanic in WvW.

Nobody has said Bloodlust is the only OP Mechanic in WvW:

• AF and GK (and wXP/Word Ranks in general)
• Ascended Weapons/Gear
• Stacking World Buffs
• Bloodlust

They all contribute to make WvW a very unfriendly place for casual players, up-leveled characters (remember the promise of leveling in WvW?), altaholics, or people on less-populated Servers.

The reason Bloodlust is generating so much more outrage is pretty much all the other things are somewhat in a player’s own control. Competitive players and guilds can grind and farm and work to ensure they are prepared as best they can be to face any other evenly-matched opponent (whether in open-field, roaming, havoc, or GvG).

But Bloodlust is the worst kind of “piling on” – you can easily find yourself -50 to -100 on ALL Stats due to things taking place on other Maps. Now underdog Servers are having players Stomped for 3 points making any benefits of the Outnumbered Buff completely useless. People can’t even go to EB for a chance at “even fights” in these unbalanced matches because Bloodlust applies to all Maps.

To make matters even worse, many people rallied and posted on the Forums against this as soon as they heard how Bloodlust was going to work. All these things were pointed out ahead of time and all the warnings were completely ignored by ANet.

Also, as bad as all the other things are, they still allowed the emergent “GvG Movement” to take place where competitive Guilds could still have even fights largely decided by skill and organization regardless of how messed up the overall match was. Regardless of whether you support or hate GvG in WvW it was keeping a lot of the most “hardcore” players playing… and Bloodlust puts a real dent in the ability for it to take place anymore.

Call it a “Perfect Storm” moment – all these things coming to a head after months of neglect and with a potential disaster of the new League/Seasons match format on the horizon. People have just “had enough” and it is now up to ANet to respond or suffer the consequences.

I still don’t fully understand since I’ve yet to see Bloodlust become more noticeable in my WvW activity. I see only the effects of PvE and being matched with the “stacked” servers (JQ/SoR/BG) or the likes of DB/FA/etc.
However, I tend toward being a “casual” WvW person, and thus do not spend as much time in WvW as maybe the “hardcore” players would. In my experience thus far since this buff came out, I have yet to see excessive wiping of home server zerg due to the other zerg having +150 stats.

Low pop server reporting in. The buffs stink more than steam cooked kitten. It’s tough enough being outmanned, but at least usually we can have a few fun fights. Now it’s just demoralizing. No fun at all to go out and be at a complete disadvantage not only in numbers, but in individual strength as well.

Judge… your guild left the lower tier servers for one that was stacking heavily (Kaineng to TC) you are in a 1.5 tier server… of COURSE you havent seen the affect on the majority of servers this has had.

JudgeD.5673:

One can also argue that having the right WvW rank/skills and killing 5 NPCs is also OP vs someone who doesn’t have the same buff, but I’ve yet to hear any complaint about this.

I suspect you are not very attentive.

Ostra.3927:

Judge… your guild left the lower tier servers for one that was stacking heavily (Kaineng to TC) you are in a 1.5 tier server… of COURSE you havent seen the affect on the majority of servers this has had.

I’m on TC too, and I’m not sure what map or where Judge is playing, but I definitely saw the effects of the orb vs JQ Friday Night. I explained it above, also in response to Judge:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Orbs-are-OP/2888565

(Though to be fair, it appears it is at the level of 2x orb that the effect becomes really noticeable).

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Nobody has said Bloodlust is the only OP Mechanic in WvW:

• AF and GK (and wXP/Word Ranks in general)
• Ascended Weapons/Gear
• Stacking World Buffs
• Bloodlust

They all contribute to make WvW a very unfriendly place for casual players, up-leveled characters (remember the promise of leveling in WvW?), altaholics, or people on less-populated Servers.

The reason Bloodlust is generating so much more outrage is pretty much all the other things are somewhat in a player’s own control. Competitive players and guilds can grind and farm and work to ensure they are prepared as best they can be to face any other evenly-matched opponent (whether in open-field, roaming, havoc, or GvG).

But Bloodlust is the worst kind of “piling on” – you can easily find yourself -50 to -100 on ALL Stats due to things taking place on other Maps. Now underdog Servers are having players Stomped for 3 points making any benefits of the Outnumbered Buff completely useless. People can’t even go to EB for a chance at “even fights” in these unbalanced matches because Bloodlust applies to all Maps.

To make matters even worse, many people rallied and posted on the Forums against this as soon as they heard how Bloodlust was going to work. All these things were pointed out ahead of time and all the warnings were completely ignored by ANet.

Also, as bad as all the other things are, they still allowed the emergent “GvG Movement” to take place where competitive Guilds could still have even fights largely decided by skill and organization regardless of how messed up the overall match was. Regardless of whether you support or hate GvG in WvW it was keeping a lot of the most “hardcore” players playing… and Bloodlust puts a real dent in the ability for it to take place anymore.

Call it a “Perfect Storm” moment – all these things coming to a head after months of neglect and with a potential disaster of the new League/Seasons match format on the horizon. People have just “had enough” and it is now up to ANet to respond or suffer the consequences.

Excellent post. All of this stat creep is not friendly at all to casual players. The only thing that is friendly to casual players are zergs (until they run across a zerg-busting guild group that has all of the stat creep).

Add in the upcoming disaster that will be the league system and GW2 is in a very bad place right now.

Ostra.3927:

Judge… your guild left the lower tier servers for one that was stacking heavily (Kaineng to TC) you are in a 1.5 tier server… of COURSE you havent seen the affect on the majority of servers this has had.

Fair enough. Granted I never said it wasn’t so, just that I have yet to see it. It seems to be a major concern going by the reaction I am getting here.
Also in response to the guy from TC, I was EB for reset night, when we were getting double teamed by JQ and BG, yet we managed to retain some things even with little supply. This buff was not exactly what we were concerned with at that time.
A more recent occurrence was the defending of our garrison today, where we had a slight advantage in total numbers but the other server had either 2-3 Bloodlust buffs (I can’t remember which). Yet, we still held garrison after about a 15 min fight (to be fair we were using mesmers to portal from Citadel for the duration).
My question was (and in the other thread referenced by Thrumdi), Why is bloodlust OP compared to WvW rank buffs/etc? Having run around in the ruins area for awhile the other day, the point that an opposing server would have to park a small zerg in there just to maintain the buff from that map was plain to me, though I noticed earlier that one of the servers in our matchup did have all 3 at one point.
I am not naysaying or calling out anyone here, just genuinely curious as to why the outcry.

JudgeD.5673:

Ostra.3927:

Judge… your guild left the lower tier servers for one that was stacking heavily (Kaineng to TC) you are in a 1.5 tier server… of COURSE you havent seen the affect on the majority of servers this has had.

Fair enough. Granted I never said it wasn’t so, just that I have yet to see it.
Also in response to the guy from TC, I was EB for reset night, when we were getting double teamed by JQ and BG, yet we managed to retain some things even with little supply. This buff was not exactly what we were concerned with at that time.

And I described two cases where the 2x orb clearly affected the outcome of fights.

One was the unsuccessful defense of OW, where pre-buff exactly the same fight would have been even, with us probably winning. In fact, after we had scattered JQ’s first rush, one of the guild-mates said, “We got this.” But as I said above, the 2x orb buff prevented us finishing them off, and they were able to regroup.

The second was trying to finish off the end of a JQ zerg. Once again, the 2x orb buff allowed them to escape, where normally we’d be able to thin them out.

Thrumdi.9216:

JudgeD.5673:

Ostra.3927:

Judge… your guild left the lower tier servers for one that was stacking heavily (Kaineng to TC) you are in a 1.5 tier server… of COURSE you havent seen the affect on the majority of servers this has had.

Fair enough. Granted I never said it wasn’t so, just that I have yet to see it.
Also in response to the guy from TC, I was EB for reset night, when we were getting double teamed by JQ and BG, yet we managed to retain some things even with little supply. This buff was not exactly what we were concerned with at that time.

And I described two cases where the 2x orb clearly affected the outcome of fights.

One was the unsuccessful defense of OW, where pre-buff exactly the same fight would have been even, with us probably winning. In fact, after we had scattered JQ’s first rush, one of the guild-mates said, “We got this.” But as I said above, the 2x orb buff prevented us finishing them off, and they were able to regroup.

The second was trying to finish off the end of a JQ zerg. Once again, the 2x orb buff allowed them to escape, where normally we’d be able to thin them out.

I’ll take your word for it, since I was not there. As I’ve already stated there may have been times where this buff was evident, but it is hard to understand something which you do not see or experience.
My apologies for seeming a bit dense, but I tend toward the visual for explanation.

Fair enough judge.

As to what is the difference. Well I dont like the WeXP lines giving bonuses either. With that said however those do not ONLY help the server with the bigger numbers.

Applied fortitude does not go away when you are outnumbered. Your small man is still on equal footing IF you find an equal sized group.

With the Ruins buff they are not. The server with more numbers = more power now. So you are less effective with your roaming team again an equal sized enemy.

THAT is the core issue. It re-enforces players to stack on those servers, because they will be rewarded.

Its the same as Anet taking away trinket stats if you are outnumbered. that is the problem.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Nobody has said Bloodlust is the only OP Mechanic in WvW:

• AF and GK (and wXP/Word Ranks in general)
• Ascended Weapons/Gear
• Stacking World Buffs
• Bloodlust

They all contribute to make WvW a very unfriendly place for casual players, up-leveled characters (remember the promise of leveling in WvW?), altaholics, or people on less-populated Servers.

Just a short little clip to demonstrate your point. I can’t help but imagine one of these guys saying, “skrew this kitten, I’m out of here.”

bad builds – made almost viable in wvw because of the buffs. good builds became more op because of the buffs.

luckily not all players know how to build a wvw toon. so even if they have 3x orb buffs, they just survive longer now.

but those who do use the proper gear, feels like trying to kill demi gods.

that is if we don’t try to get the orbs back, and if we do get them, and if we don’t have numbers to cap it because of enemy roamers – it’s not the op thing that gets to you, but the stress and aggravation of not getting it. ahaha

a burst of time spent now – good fun. but less time in the game over all.

Oozo.7856:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Nobody has said Bloodlust is the only OP Mechanic in WvW:

• AF and GK (and wXP/Word Ranks in general)
• Ascended Weapons/Gear
• Stacking World Buffs
• Bloodlust

They all contribute to make WvW a very unfriendly place for casual players, up-leveled characters (remember the promise of leveling in WvW?), altaholics, or people on less-populated Servers.

Just a short little clip to demonstrate your point. I can’t help but imagine one of these guys saying, “skrew this kitten, I’m out of here.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyTFB_dfblw

people have been winning 1v3 against lowbies since day one. in that case stats had little to do with it.

Maskaganda.2043:

people have been winning 1v3 against lowbies since day one. in that case stats had little to do with it.

Isn’t that a problem in itself?

Also, watch his healthbar. I don’t think it ever drops below 90%.

Sarrs.4831:

Maskaganda.2043:

people have been winning 1v3 against lowbies since day one. in that case stats had little to do with it.

Isn’t that a problem in itself?

Also, watch his healthbar. I don’t think it ever drops below 90%.

not really, winning 1v3+ against level 80s was always doable as well.
doing that to 3 upscaled guardians with an epidemic necro.. I wouldn’t even have saved the recording :p

Maskaganda.2043:

not really, winning 1v3+ against level 80s was always doable as well.
doing that to 3 upscaled guardians with an epidemic necro.. I wouldn’t even have saved the recording

If you’re engaging them all simultaneously, they’re not wearing gear/builds that are made of kitten and they’re not lagging out? I don’t really think so.

And that was 2 guardians and a warrior.

Sarrs.4831:

Maskaganda.2043:

not really, winning 1v3+ against level 80s was always doable as well.
doing that to 3 upscaled guardians with an epidemic necro.. I wouldn’t even have saved the recording

If you’re engaging them all simultaneously, they’re not wearing gear/builds that are made of kitten and they’re not lagging out? I don’t really think so.

And that was 2 guardians and a warrior.

follow the link in my sig and click randomly in any vid. and there’s people way, way better than me.

ofc, if you want to find excuses, you can always get them.

And yet people claim if WvW was normalized like sPvP is, it would become a ghost town.

Tom Gore.4035:

And yet people claim if WvW was normalized like sPvP is, it would become a ghost town.

Do they?
Do you?

One of the most frequent requests is for better (i.e. more balanced against a wider selection of servers) WvW match-ups.
Why wouldn’t that apply at the player level as well?

Personally I far prefer fighting enemies of comparable strength – that way when I win I know I out fought them and if I lose its because they out fought me.

Zenguy.6421:

Tom Gore.4035:

And yet people claim if WvW was normalized like sPvP is, it would become a ghost town.

Do they?
Do you?

One of the most frequent requests is for better (i.e. more balanced against a wider selection of servers) WvW match-ups.
Why wouldn’t that apply at the player level as well?

Personally I far prefer fighting enemies of comparable strength – that way when I win I know I out fought them and if I lose its because they out fought me.

Me too, but when you think about it, why do people run in zergs all the time?

Because that offers them the best rewards.

Why people don’t play sPvP?

Because they claim there are not enough rewards.

So I just put 1+1 and see that a lot of people would desert WvW if there were no phat loot Piñatas. I wouldn’t mind, personally, since I enjoy small fights over zergs, anyway.