Guild Wars 2

So ive been thinking (ohoh) that maybe the outmanned buff should allow you instant kills when your enemy reaches 0% HP.

The buff exists when you are grossly outmanned. Now while not every encounter is a grossly outmanned one even if you have the buff, it is my presumption that the responsibility be placed on the higher population team to run as larger numbered teams. Is this fair to small format teams on servers that naturally have higher populations? No. Is it their problem? As much as it is the problem of the outnumbered team’s side to fight zergs.

Many are aware that in a home bl there are many using the services of the citadel. I would propose that the outnumbered buff not consider ANY players with the spawn points invulnerability, only those players who are in the field.

I know this could lead to some serious defender crying in the borderlands if they end up with a small enemy guild team on their map but again I think the responsibility falls on the defenders. And at the same time, home bl defenders would have more realistic incentive to defend if they thought they could atleast wear down the enemy that was causing outnumbered buff on them, instead of just watching rally/rally/rally after objective after objective is lost.

The tech to remove/give downed state to a player exists ingame already as seen with players gaining downed state ability at lvl 5. I’d have this revamped out numbered buff work only on players that have achieved bronze rank.

Just my little perspective. What are yours regarding Out Numbered Buff &/or Downed State?

I like it. The downed state is a pretty broken system outside of 1v1’s, and players blobbing together already have a huge advantage over smaller groups, this would really give the outnumbered players a fighting chance.

Jim Hunter.6821:

The downed state is a pretty broken system outside of 1v1’s, and players blobbing together already have a huge advantage over smaller groups, this would really give the outnumbered players a fighting chance.

Except this would make it even more broken in small scale. Outmanned is global, not local. IE you can fight 5v3 while technically being “outmanned” because there is a 70 man blob elsewhere on the map. Is that fair?

You’d have to change the outmanned system entirerly. Which they wont bother with.

Dawdler.8521:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The downed state is a pretty broken system outside of 1v1’s, and players blobbing together already have a huge advantage over smaller groups, this would really give the outnumbered players a fighting chance.

Except this would make it even more broken in small scale. Outmanned is global, not local. IE you can fight 5v3 while technically being “outmanned” because there is a 70 man blob elsewhere on the map. Is that fair?

You’d have to change the outmanned system entirerly. Which they wont bother with.

I know how it works and I already considered that. If you are fighting larger numbers going down is a death sentence 90% of the time anyway, it will barely make a difference in those situations.

Dawdler.8521:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The downed state is a pretty broken system outside of 1v1’s, and players blobbing together already have a huge advantage over smaller groups, this would really give the outnumbered players a fighting chance.

Except this would make it even more broken in small scale. Outmanned is global, not local. IE you can fight 5v3 while technically being “outmanned” because there is a 70 man blob elsewhere on the map. Is that fair?

You’d have to change the outmanned system entirerly. Which they wont bother with.

I did address the “fairness” of it.

Right now the burden of being outnumbered is on the outnumbered, supported heavily by the downed system.

My proposal is to shift that burden back onto the team that’s outnumbering the other. Will that affect small groups trying to fight on same map as a friendly zerg? Yes. But the burden would be on the larger team as a whole to figure out the logistics.

I completely appreciate the down system for what its protecting against:
gankgankgankgankgankgank
but again that’s burden that should be placed on the player to run in a group or have the minimum appropriate skill set to handle that. Beyond that roaming/hunting is a part of wvw or any game that has open world pvp.

I would not remove downed state, when facing off against the outnumbered buff, until the player is bronze rank. That is sufficient time to learn what the buttons do and how the game mode functions.

Justine.6351:

My proposal is to shift that burden back onto the team that’s outnumbering the other. Will that affect small groups trying to fight on same map as a friendly zerg? Yes. But the burden would be on the larger team as a whole to figure out the logistics.

“Figure out the logistics”? Well I think it’s an incredibly poor way of doing it, changing something as fundamental as downed state.

Everyone should suffer the same combat mechanics – no matter if it’s 10v1 or 10v10. 1 player is 1 player under the same rules as every other player on every other map. Winning against the odds of a numerically superior foe should be up to skill, group composition and tactics, not having mechanical handicaps. The numbers will always vary.

Dawdler.8521:

Justine.6351:

My proposal is to shift that burden back onto the team that’s outnumbering the other. Will that affect small groups trying to fight on same map as a friendly zerg? Yes. But the burden would be on the larger team as a whole to figure out the logistics.

“Figure out the logistics”? Well I think it’s an incredibly poor way of doing it, changing something as fundamental as downed state.

Everyone should suffer the same combat mechanics – no matter if it’s 10v1 or 10v10. 1 player is 1 player under the same rules as every other player on every other map. Winning against the odds of a numerically superior foe should be up to skill, group composition and tactics, not having mechanical handicaps. The numbers will always vary.

The combination of aoe limit and being able to rez downed players is the mechanical handicap.

Jim Hunter.6821:

The combination of aoe limit and being able to rez downed players is the mechanical handicap.

Last I checked it was a noob trap.

Dawdler.8521:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The combination of aoe limit and being able to rez downed players is the mechanical handicap.

Last I checked it was a noob trap.

Yeah spiking certainly feels like a noob trap some days when I have aoe dumped on my head during my melee 3sec spike on my ranged character. Hell why even both to res the guy when they can just spam cleaves to drive off anyone spiking or better yet, kill the spiker causing their guy to res. Down state is totally about skillful play and totally not a mechanic to protect casuals in pve and pvp. Its like everyone is a necro with auto death shroud lols.

Don’t even get me started on everytime my downed target I’m trying to spike gets stealthed by their ally.

Lets face it WvW is never going to be fixed in any way shape or form. The entire WvW system needs to be overhauled with something completely new. Going on the 4th year of neglect to the WvW player base is bad service.
Now they are trying to salvage what WvW players they have left with insignificant changes. I can not support Anet any longer until real changes come about.

This is a good idea, but I want to take it a step further. Make outnumbered local with a 1500 radius. It triggers when the enemies are x2 the number of allies. Yes, that makes 2v1ing somebody more dangerous, but it would be awesome in the long run, reward small group vs large group instead of doomed map vs crowded map, and it really aids the viability of zerg busting and havoc.

Cecilia.5179:

This is a good idea, but I want to take it a step further. Make outnumbered local with a 1500 radius. It triggers when the enemies are x2 the number of allies. Yes, that makes 2v1ing somebody more dangerous, but it would be awesome in the long run, reward small group vs large group instead of doomed map vs crowded map, and it really aids the viability of zerg busting and havoc.

1500 is way too small. At 1500 you could still have a ranger shooting you from outside of that range, not to mention the thieves and warriors that will be running in and out of it to reset.
I’d say split each map into quarters. The bl would be split NE, NW, SE, SW, and EBG would be split into the area around SM and then each of the 3 sides.

They would also need to add an icon that pops up on your buff bar letting you know that you outnumber the enemy and have lost your downed state.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Cecilia.5179:

This is a good idea, but I want to take it a step further. Make outnumbered local with a 1500 radius. It triggers when the enemies are x2 the number of allies. Yes, that makes 2v1ing somebody more dangerous, but it would be awesome in the long run, reward small group vs large group instead of doomed map vs crowded map, and it really aids the viability of zerg busting and havoc.

1500 is way too small. At 1500 you could still have a ranger shooting you from outside of that range, not to mention the thieves and warriors that will be running in and out of it to reset.
I’d say split each map into quarters. The bl would be split NE, NW, SE, SW, and EBG would be split into the area around SM and then each of the 3 sides.

They would also need to add an icon that pops up on your buff bar letting you know that you outnumber the enemy and have lost your downed state.

The ranger can’t shoot you past 1500, but I guess 1800 would be safer. as for thieves running in and out, are they running into numbers? If so, you instantly kill them. Are they running out of their numbers? They might go down instead of dying, but they will be alone. Whatever the fight reset radius is probably best, because stopping resetting is a completely different jar of worms to open.

Cecilia.5179:

The ranger can’t shoot you past 1500

Want to bet?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Cecilia.5179:

The ranger can’t shoot you past 1500

Want to bet?

Well if he were to shoot you when you’re in a group but he was too far to proc outnumbered, it won’t benefit him. If he shot you from a group you would only be downed either way.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Dawdler.8521:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The downed state is a pretty broken system outside of 1v1’s, and players blobbing together already have a huge advantage over smaller groups, this would really give the outnumbered players a fighting chance.

Except this would make it even more broken in small scale. Outmanned is global, not local. IE you can fight 5v3 while technically being “outmanned” because there is a 70 man blob elsewhere on the map. Is that fair?

You’d have to change the outmanned system entirerly. Which they wont bother with.

I know how it works and I already considered that. If you are fighting larger numbers going down is a death sentence 90% of the time anyway, it will barely make a difference in those situations.

Ehhhh… multi-rally reduction hit small groups harder than people thought because often times people run utility to get people up while in small groups.

I recall an instance of a 6v20 my guild did. A few members and I went down several times, but good spike/cleave timing and coordinated resurrection efforts let us win the fight. Since none of us got finished, none of the opponents could rally.

Having a bigger group take that advantage just seems a little excessive.

The ON buff shouldn’t really need to exist if matchups were done better by using heuristic data of participation rather than just glicko scoring.

This would make it even harder to find good fights when crazy outnumbered. As it is now, at least we can find the occasional decent 4v5 or 10v12.

We run with outnumbered buff like 80% of each matchup. I love the extra participation added to the buff. Maybe give us more magic find. 20% is nothing. Try 50% or even 100%. That way combat mechanics can stay even but have a slightly better chance at awesome loot for actually killing.

Wouldn’t mind a 1.2 (or something) multiplier on ppk too.