Guild Wars 2

How does the outmanned buff work? I seen some guys in out server (other team) that have the buff and others don’t. I noticed this while i was dead and some guy was humping my dead body. He and s few others had the buff and the a bunch of others in the tower didn’t. Just curious how that works if anyone knows

From my observation, I believe the outmanned buff is broken.

is that the living story patch at the end of march ?
thats 3 more weeks

Any chance the outmanned buff will be made more useful?

SchuMidas.4782:

is that the living story patch at the end of march ?
thats 3 more weeks

oh wow, that’s annoying.

Habib Loew.6239:

There was a bug with the outmanned buff which caused it to be stripped from players on death. That bug should be fixed in the March update.

I sincerely hope you’re doing more to the outmanned buff for the “big WvW” patch than just fixing a bug with how it applies.

Outmanned buff should be reworked to give them the benefits that orbs used to give like increased HP and stuff. Enemy is already outmanned, they need increased defenses to be able to sustain a little more in fights against a zerg; not magic find boosts and xp gains. If farming is the intention of a player he’d rather be in Orr or Frostgorge.

Can we have it so that the enemy doesn’t know they should focus on you because they know you have less players?

Habib Loew.6239:

There was a bug with the outmanned buff which caused it to be stripped from players on death. That bug should be fixed in the March update.

Some other things to fix:

-Make bags go on auto loot
-Chest for capping towers that contain costume brawl jars, karma vials and money.
- Norn players to scale with the size of Norn keep lords
-Boulders and snowballs that spawn because they are fun
-a /***bag command

Nemui.6753:

SchuMidas.4782:

is that the living story patch at the end of march ?
thats 3 more weeks

oh wow, that’s annoying.

That is pretty harsh.

As it is now the outmanned buff is abused by enemies (we do it too) to know that the enemy is weak and that it is time to attack him.

The outmanned buff should help the outmanned server. It should give useful attributes like vitality or armor and on top of that only be visible to the server itself. Other servers shouldn’t see that your server has this buff, otherwise it is an intitation to attack you.

Arpheus.6918:

As it is now the outmanned buff is abused by enemies (we do it too) to know that the enemy is weak and that it is time to attack him.

The outmanned buff should help the outmanned server. It should give useful attributes like vitality or armor and on top of that only be visible to the server itself. Other servers shouldn’t see that your server has this buff, otherwise it is an intitation to attack you.

Disagree, you shouldn’t punish the server for having more people. I think the buffs are fine as they are (you know, if they were working). If you’re outmanned, you should get a slightly higher reward for killing and getting loot.

However I don’t think the invaders should be able to see the buff.

out man buff should get lords on the offensive like for instance if ten or more player with out man buff can start lord offensive similar to breakout event but with more npc god mode. I actully want them cuz im on blackgate soooo yeah we need more challenge then just re flipping things over n over

I think increasing the out-manned buffs for things like stats and then hiding that buff from enemies is a terrible idea. Can you imagine all of the cries for nerfs that would follow as a result as people would appear OP?

Seraphim.3475:

I noticed this while i was dead and some guy was humping my dead body.

Hahahaha. I laughed, thanks!

If the outmanned buff gives stat bonus then it should show to the other servers, since it’ll have to opposite effect it has now and make them not focus on you.

oh hey we’re outmanned… better give us PVE buffs that don’t help us at all!

I think concerning outmanned buff… it’s not useful at all. What good will +20% Magic find, +33% Experience, +33% Karma do with the fact that the server is outmanned. What if Anet brought back orbs of power (5% boost to maximum HP and 50 bonus points to all stats for each orb) and just swap the effects?
That way we could get a meaningful buff for outmanned servers and a nice bonus stats for owning orbs of power (no balancing or hacking issues) available via the secondary, orb of power objective.

Father Busho.2796:

I think concerning outmanned buff… it’s not useful at all. What good will +20% Magic find, +33% Experience, +33% Karma do with the fact that the server is outmanned. What if Anet brought back orbs of power (5% boost to maximum HP and 50 bonus points to all stats for each orb) and just swap the effects?
That way we could get a meaningful buff for outmanned servers and a nice bonus stats for owning orbs of power (no balancing or hacking issues) available via the secondary, orb of power objective.

Buuusho!

EDIT: On re-read realised this adds nothing of value or import to the discussion. I agree the outmanned buff is pretty useless and worthless as it is, something that helped in some way like stat increase/bonus would be a lot better for whichever server has it.

@Ethics.4519
I guess it depends on implementation. If the outmanned buffs gives useful buffs like +5% HP or something like that it could be shown.
I think being outmanned should give you some help with buffs. Being outmanned doesn’t mean your server is bad in general. It can also mean that during night times another server is lucky to have a strong “night crew” while others don’t.
In such situations a helpful buff would be great to at least help defenders keep their main fort during nights. But even a +5% HP buff won’t really help. +% HP on walls/doors/siege while being outmanned would be useful. That buff could stack the more outmanned you are. Like half people offers +50% HP on walls/doors/siege. 20% less people offers +20% HP.
That would probably not change how the fights end but it would take longer and help defenders to keep at least some towers/forts.
This is just an example what I mean with helpful buffs. They can be anything – they should just be useful.

On the other side if the outmanned buff its completely useless for fights as it is now don’t show it to the other teams.

Its absolutely no motivations, I could imagine a lot of people leave too if Outmanned buff pops up.
But the absolute worst is that an enemy sees this.

Remove
Outmanned
Buff

No point in the fact that enemies can see when you are outmanned!

Arpheus.6918:

@Ethics.4519
I guess it depends on implementation. If the outmanned buffs gives useful buffs like +5% HP or something like that it could be shown.
I think being outmanned should give you some help with buffs. Being outmanned doesn’t mean your server is bad in general. It can also mean that during night times another server is lucky to have a strong “night crew” while others don’t.
In such situations a helpful buff would be great to at least help defenders keep their main fort during nights. But even a +5% HP buff won’t really help. +% HP on walls/doors/siege while being outmanned would be useful. That buff could stack the more outmanned you are. Like half people offers +50% HP on walls/doors/siege. 20% less people offers +20% HP.
That would probably not change how the fights end but it would take longer and help defenders to keep at least some towers/forts.
This is just an example what I mean with helpful buffs. They can be anything – they should just be useful.

On the other side if the outmanned buff its completely useless for fights as it is now don’t show it to the other teams.

That makes a little more sense than the other people screaming “GIVE ME MORE DPS!”. I don’t think the outmanned buff should effect your personal player at all in combat. It just seems to penalize the other server for your server not being active and WvWing.

However, to your point, I think giving doors and walls +5% health or siege +5% damage seems more acceptable. It helps the strategy aspect game a little more, rather than just “I want more badges” aspect.

There shouldnt be an outmanned buff. Getting benefits for a server;s negligence to compete should not result in reward. No matter what that buff might be, but most certainly not in the form of power.

The idea behind the current buff is quite simple and something i can already understand. You are outmanned, ergo its logically more difficult for you to complete in events and do your personal progression. To eliviate this problem slightly you get bonus exp/karma/loot for those times you do.
You’re still losing and still in trouble, but it wont hurt your personal progression as badly.

Habib Loew.6239:

There was a bug with the outmanned buff which caused it to be stripped from players on death. That bug should be fixed in the March update.

So technically there still is a bug. So to say “There was a bug” is not correct way to say that:p

vespers.1759:

oh hey we’re outmanned… better give us PVE buffs that don’t help us at all!

Let me help you make since of this. When they where designing the game the person in charge of implementing the out manned and the Orb buffs mistakenly switched the two. So as time went on that person left the company and everyone else never knew they two should of been switched.

At least that is my theory.

cubed.2853:

Its absolutely no motivations, I could imagine a lot of people leave too if Outmanned buff pops up.
But the absolute worst is that an enemy sees this.

No way you head out and find a nice quite area to PvE mobs in:)

Outmanned buff is NOT bugged, it is just you are implementing it WRONG…

Question. What does it take to Trigger the Outmanned Buff?

I have not been able to find any numbers that say “At this point the buff will trigger”

So I was wondering what what point does it trigger, IE: What does Anet consider “The enemies greatly outnumber your forces , be careful out there!”

Are we talking 2 vs 1, 4 vs 1, at what ratio or number does this Karma Train Exp buff turn on.

Also.

Does it trigger if say you are out manning another server?

IE: If we have 50 people on the field, and the other servers have 150 and 10 respectively, with the server with 10 people get the buff and we won’t, or will both the out manned servers get the buff?

Thanks for any input you can give.

You fix the issue but not having the issue.

The [outmanned] should never exist in WvWvW.

MMOs are based on balance.

I also think the buffs are broken. A couple of days ago i checked how much karma i get for flipping a camp with the outmanned buff and it was the same as without the buff.

Outmanned means you are outnumbered by the enemy- to get a buff of:
+20% Magic find
+33% Experience
+33% Karma
Is useless
So i spend 4g upgrading keeps and towers (when the servers are empty) only for the morning blob to [outman] and steamroll and take everything as 6 people cant defend everything vs 30 people. Even if they decided to all defend a keep, all it takes is to kill 1 person and they have to spawn at the start wp so they have to travel back to the fight, They then become EASY prey for the enemy if they decide to try to rejoin the defending. (If they dont get mobbed travelling to the defend position, they find themselves having to go through the enemy group (zerg, blob, whatever you want to name it) – either death only results in another repair bill. If you kill an attacker then because there are so many of them that dead person is soon healed from downed state.
..Of course you could say a group of 5/6 should be able to defend a keep vs 20/30. Maybe if we were an ‘organized’ party – but against a large group there will always be those in the L. group that can spec/equip for dmg/support.
The large group will always win vs those of leser numbers. Thats the way a lot of battles have been won (and the way a lot of mmo’s roll)- but a few battles have been won by those that have been far outnumbered.
. . . I have nothing against the large group, – i just see people that follow VERY large groups as just being there for the loot bags (hence you might call it the ‘blob’ i call it the ‘loot bag express’) or maybe you have got a super computer but most i know get some form of lag (and i wont even mention culling) i dont find that fun so i dont do it but this is a ‘game’ and the large group ‘seems’ to be having an effect on the game and spoiling it for some.
. . . . . . . . . . With the new update i am worried that more will see this ‘loot bag express’ as the only way to quickly and efficiently upgrade their character. Beware solo/small groups you now have a loot bag bounty on your heads. These solo/small groups will get fed up of ‘being ganged up on’ so will be faced with two options, either: join a large group themselves or leave wvw (which MAY mean they leave the game), i wonder how many would leave wvw/the game if the aquisition of loot bags was altered? so for this reason i believe that if you are tagged by 15(??) or more people then you do not drop a loot bag. So if you want to roll as a large group you can, just the battle lines would be spread out to ensure loot bag drop (i think this would lead to far more interesting fights)
So here are some of my (silly?) thoughts/suggestions for teams that suffer from ‘outmanned’:
If a wp is unlocked and activated then it is usable EVEN when the keep is under attack
(the wp belongs to the defending team – until the keep/castle is lost)
Towers have the option of a wp upgrade – but this wp only activates when the team is outmanned (maybe even limit the amount of people that can travel to wp (similar to mes portal))
An option to uprade so that the gurds level becomes 84 when outmanned and another upgrade for the amount of guards. Or maybe a group of merceneries can be hired to defend (yes i know you have events already for this – but when your outmanned you normally dont have these events in you favour)
When the champion/lord is attacked any remaining guards that are alive get spawned at his location – (when a structure is taken the guards are ‘killed’ – so they’re not going to defend the wall when the lord is under attack)
Any remaining guards that are ‘alive’ when the lord is killed are not killed but transferred to any other location held by team.
Guards cripples/knockbacks are now aoe
The lord provides stability to those around him (immune to pulls/pushes /knockdowns) – at least let me die on my my feet fighting!!!
Maybe if there were levels of outmanned, then some options would only active upon the level being reached. ie: “Be careful”, “Out manned”, “Heavily Out manned” and “Dont go out the spawn zone unless youre a thief” (ok so the the last one was a joke- but you get the idea)
NO repair bill when outmanned
NO loot bag drop from me when i die whilst outmanned
AC have an auto fire option when outmanned
It would be useful to have an alert on when something was being attacked, this leads me to:
make map transparency settings- fed up of dying whilst looking at the map
also make the wvw map viewable whilst in pve
EDIT
I’ve read some people say stats should be altered – i am STRONGLY against this as it makes it unfair for any soloers on the side doing the outmanning.

i’m sure that your point is very well thought out under web.

but if you are going to write a novel in the forums then you should at least add a TL;DR to it as a courtesy to people who don’t want to read a page and a half of what you have to say.

Outmanned buff should be overhauled. They should make it dynamic, as im sure the trigger for it is dynamic as well. What I mean is, the bonus in stats should reflect the % of how much they are outmanned. If they are outmanned slightly (such that 1-2 parties will effectively cancel the buff), the bonus will be smaller. The greater they’re outmanned, the bigger the bonus.

I think the current plan for WvW Ranks and rank boosts should be carried over to the Outmanned Buff. If you’re outmanned you have to work harder and faster, but giving straight up combat buffs is a little abusable and unfair.

So, the new and improved Outmanned Buff should look like:

Outmanned!
+25% Supply Carrying Capacity
-50% Supply Costs for Repairing Structures and Doors
-25% Supply Cost for Constructing Siege Weapons
+50% Siege Construction Speed
+10% Keep Upgrade Speed

Now, having the buff means you can at least put up a good keep defense or siege effort and not get ridiculously creamed (provided you can get to a keep, and get supply). It means that you can make your 0-2 Supply Camps stretch that much thinner. It means you can mount a meaningful defense before the zerg buzz-saws through your door like it was made of butter. It doesn’t give you an unfair advantage in combat, and is difficult to really abuse since most WvW siege and keep upgrades are remarkably temporary.