Guild Wars 2

I have a question about the way that the unmanned buff is calculated.

Let me stat off by saying I play on tarnished coast and this week we are fighting fa and sos. Both fa and sos are linked and tc is not.

Is the oumanned buff working as intended?

The reason I ask is because last night on tc we had one squad with 30 people.. And very few pugs… And only a few roamers. No other tags on map and a really small squad… yet we had a map que.

Fa had 2 60 man zergs and sos had one huge blob. The amount of names in each engagement actually lagged people out and offline and was causing skill lag.

By my thinking… We should have been Outmanned yet we did have a que of 4 to 5 most of the night. The Outmanned buff never popped however.

Now with that said.. I know there was a bug with the Outmanned calculation that caused us to be Outmanned even with a full que on reset a few weeks ago on EB, and this was looked into by a dev.. and was corrected. BUT with this kind of thing happening again, im starting to wonder if the server linking is messing with the outmanned buff calculations or the que itself.

We don’t have a linking while the other two servers do. Maybe we are still at the point for a single server where the outmanned buff will not pop correctly?

Could this be causing us to have a lower que also? or cause the Outmanned buff to not work as it should against stacked servers?

We were so obviously outnumbered last night that people were just logging off because of lag caused by the other zergs and deaths to massive numbers.

Can we get a dev to look into this asap? It is completely killing any WvW that is left

Btw.. this was happening on TCBL .. I dont know about the other borderlands. I think EB was the only other BL with a que.. and they had maybe 50 people there total and were getting rolled by massive zergs twice their size also..

Outmanned buff is 3 to 1 right? It stands to reason you can have a decent sized force and still be outmanned by a map queue, we had 30ish on Mag yesterday and were still outmanned, that just means the enemy had 90+.

Did the buff pop for you? it didn’t pop for us… and we were definitely outmanned 3 to 1 easily.. as i said people were even lagging out completely in some of the fights.

we had 50 as i said ( and thats pushing it with pugs) and they FA had 2 huge zergs twice our size and sos had a huge map blob also… so yeah.. should have popped but didnt

Afaik the outnumbered “buff” goes to the server which has the least amount of players on a map, regardless of actual numbers. It doesn’t have to be 1:3.

But if you got a queue, you won’t be outnumbered on the map, unless you got a lower map cap, which i doubt.

It can certainly seem that way, enemy blobs can be so massive at times while your side might look outnumbered. However without being able to account for everyone on your side, regardless if they are in squad or not there is no way to make an accurate assumption here.

Sometimes it just comes down to perception being reality…

it should probably be reduced to 2v1 as it currently stands outmanned buff is worthless as your simply not going to be killing the enemy by the time you get that buff its not happening period. no commander can reliably fight 90 with 30 unless those 90 are smashing their face into siege on a hill without going up the hill.

First, outnumbered is not a buff.

Second, stop throwing random numbers out there.

Third, map caps need to be reduced.

I recommend switching to the shortened nameplates. It is far easier to get a more accurate count of colored dots than full names. For example, “two 60 man zergs” can’t at all be accurate since map hits queue around 80 or less.

Chaba.5410:

I recommend switching to the shortened nameplates. It is far easier to get a more accurate count of colored dots than full names. For example, “two 60 man zergs” can’t at all be accurate since map hits queue around 80 or less.

also minions ranger pets and elementals should not get a colored dot or even a name plate as it makes opposing forces look much larger than they actually are.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Afaik the outnumbered “buff” goes to the server which has the least amount of players on a map, regardless of actual numbers. It doesn’t have to be 1:3.

But if you got a queue, you won’t be outnumbered on the map, unless you got a lower map cap, which i doubt.

That is clearly incorrect or one server would always be outmanned. Have you ever seen your server outmanned when you field a 50 man + 30 others but doesnt quite hit map cap, just because the other two had similar numbers but do hit cap and queue?

Hell I regurlarly dont even see outmanned when we are 20 in the only squad and go against a full zone blob – and thats even ignoring the third server.

Yes, i have seen the “outnumbered buff” with quite a lot people on the map and sometimes i don’t see it with only very few people on the map againt a big blob – because the 3rd server has even less.

Also it is pretty hard to estimate the numbers of your server and the opposing servers on the whole map, since not everyone has to be in a squad/on tag. And enemy zergs generally look bigger than your own.

X T D.6458:

First, outnumbered is not a buff.

Second, stop throwing random numbers out there.

Third, map caps need to be reduced.

+1

NSP a few days ago, had 4-6 queue and we could enter in the map, and probably we were outmaned as well @ that time, it was a bit confusing.

Wouldn’t be surprised to learn this whole mechanism was broken… based on experience.

I have never seen a clear statement from anyone in a position to know – namely someone who works for ANet – giving any specific details of how the Outnumbered icon is triggered or what criteria need to be fulfilled for it to happen. If anyone has a link to such a statement or explanation I’d be very interested to see it.

Failing that I am going to continue to work on the principle, derived from observation, that the thing is largely meaningless other than as an early-warning when a blob arrives on a previously dormant map. It does seem to work meaningfully in that scenario if in no other.

You already answered your question. You have map queue, so how are you outman?
If you change your question to is queue bugged, it will be more logical than the current.

Rangerdeity.5847:

Chaba.5410:

I recommend switching to the shortened nameplates. It is far easier to get a more accurate count of colored dots than full names. For example, “two 60 man zergs” can’t at all be accurate since map hits queue around 80 or less.

also minions ranger pets and elementals should not get a colored dot or even a name plate as it makes opposing forces look much larger than they actually are.

We wish.

Reality never gets any love in WvW.

trueanimus.4085:

[..]
Is the oumanned buff working as intended?

The reason I ask is because last night on tc we had one squad with 30 people.. And very few pugs… And only a few roamers. No other tags on map and a really small squad… yet we had a map que.

Fa had 2 60 man zergs and sos had one huge blob. The amount of names in each engagement actually lagged people out and offline and was causing skill lag.

By my thinking… We should have been Outmanned[..]

I heard that only one side can be Outmanned per map.

Who cares? It’s meaningless anyway..

Hi,

1.) FA can’t have (2) “60-man zergs” on a BL, the Alpine BLs in my experience cap out around 70 players. Desert BLs in my experience seem to cap out closer to 80 players.

2.) In my experience, the outmanned buff is a 2:1 ratio. If you have only 30 on tag, and a queued map, that means you probably had 30 afkers / roamers / scouts on your BL. If FA and SOS both had queued maps they could potentially have 70×2=140 players vs 60-70 players.

3.) Queues can be bugged, but often times just because a “Queue” mark is on a map, doesn’t mean the map is queued. Sometimes it’s just catching up with the rapid amount of players joining / leaving the map. “Fake Queues”.

1. A few months ago Anet thought that JQ or the tri/quad linked CD had more players than BG and opened BG up.

2. There’s been multiple reports of queued maps that the players on the map have the outmanned buff.

If Anet doesn’t know how many “active” players each server has and there’s evidence that the system has issues with the total players on a map, can you honestly say that Anet knows how many players are on each map at any time?

Swamurabi.7890:

2. There’s been multiple reports of queued maps that the players on the map have the outmanned buff.

Which to me means the outmanned isn’t a 3:1 thing. If your server queues a map and the two other servers also are queuing the same map, you will be outnumbered by both enemy servers. Would be interesting to really know how outmanned works though since the other two servers would also be outnumbered by their opponents on the map.

Chaba.5410:

Swamurabi.7890:

2. There’s been multiple reports of queued maps that the players on the map have the outmanned buff.

Which to me means the outmanned isn’t a 3:1 thing. If your server queues a map and the two other servers also are queuing the same map, you will be outnumbered by both enemy servers. Would be interesting to really know how outmanned works though since the other two servers would also be outnumbered by their opponents on the map.

The issue I talked about is when you have a map queued on the WvW screen, hit it to get in the que, and immediately enter the map, only to find few of your side on the map and you are outmanned.

Swamurabi.7890:

Chaba.5410:

Swamurabi.7890:

2. There’s been multiple reports of queued maps that the players on the map have the outmanned buff.

Which to me means the outmanned isn’t a 3:1 thing. If your server queues a map and the two other servers also are queuing the same map, you will be outnumbered by both enemy servers. Would be interesting to really know how outmanned works though since the other two servers would also be outnumbered by their opponents on the map.

The issue I talked about is when you have a map queued on the WvW screen, hit it to get in the que, and immediately enter the map, only to find few of your side on the map and you are outmanned.

Ah, yea that old bug… Thanks for clarifying.

Swamurabi.7890:

Chaba.5410:

Swamurabi.7890:

2. There’s been multiple reports of queued maps that the players on the map have the outmanned buff.

Which to me means the outmanned isn’t a 3:1 thing. If your server queues a map and the two other servers also are queuing the same map, you will be outnumbered by both enemy servers. Would be interesting to really know how outmanned works though since the other two servers would also be outnumbered by their opponents on the map.

The issue I talked about is when you have a map queued on the WvW screen, hit it to get in the que, and immediately enter the map, only to find few of your side on the map and you are outmanned.

Usually means your server blob just hopped maps and the queue takes a few minutes to recalculate.

Jaruselka.5943:

Who cares? It’s meaningless anyway..

Given the broken as **** matchups, it really is. Honestly, they could just assign the “buff” once, as soon as the week’s matchup is decided, and save some CPU cycles.

CD, for instance, has gotten precisely one week of a relatively even matchup in the last few months—the rest of the time we get one server that so vastly outnumbers the other two that there’s no point even playing.

The fact that threads on the subject aren’t “permitted” makes it pretty clear that Anet has no intention of doing anything about it. They’re not going to fix it, so they don’t want anyone talking about it.

With the servers acting as funky as they are with lag during primetime, I wouldn’t be surprised if its a bug related to the server not keeping client side updates in check including the outmanned buff.

Also, there is no way the servers support 120-man (“Fa had 2 60 man zergs”) for a single side. No fricken way. Your perception is off.

TC does not need a link. All you do is hide behind your siege anyway! There is maybe 1-2 guild groups that know how to fight open field. As far as I am concerned TC should not receive any buffs unless they come out to fight us, instead of hiding behind walls.