Who wants Magic Find and Experience when you’re outnumbered 10 to 1?! What you want to have is increased stats to compensate. Something like 500% increase to all stats.
Alternatively, introduce a balance system to prevent “outnumbered” from happening in the first place! Like only allow people to join if there are enough equal numbered enemies on the map.
For example, if Red has 50, Blue has 40 and Green has 30. Then only players from Blue and Green may join the map until you have around 50 on each team.
Stat increases would ruin small scale stuff for those people who prefer to that kind of stuff. So I don’t know how you can make Outnumbered useful, yet keep it from being OP.
Maybe stuff like +5 supply or something along those lines, but nothing that makes a group or individual players an advantage on the pvp side of things.
Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.
Alternatively, introduce a balance system to prevent “outnumbered” from happening in the first place! Like only allow people to join if there are enough equal numbered enemies on the map.
For example, if Red has 50, Blue has 40 and Green has 30. Then only players from Blue and Green may join the map until you have around 50 on each team.
Which means at times people will simply not be able to play. Many times I play in timezones that are dead times for most of my opponent. Will my guild simply not be allowed in because we’re in an odd timezone?
Lots of people will have this issue, so this is not a solution.
Only thing I’d really like the buff to do would be to save your Guard and Sigil stacks when you die.
When outnumbered you’re already jumping into the meat grinder alot of the time so to be able to save time getting up and running other than that not overly fussed.
Outnumbered buff don’t need any changes.
And we don’t wanna end with a “plz more ppl leave so we can get the Outnumbered buff”
And when a server is outnumbered somewhere he can have 100 player somewhere else.
Remove outnumbered from players and give it to keep/tower lords.
So long as the keep or tower lord is outnumbered, gates and walls have 10x their health and take half as much damage from siege. All friendly siege within 5000 yards of the lord deals 5x the damage and have 10x the health.
That should show those off-hour heroes who’s boss!
Darko you must not be familiar with small servers if you think a lack here is a plus there. It’s usually more like “if we put all our guys in one map we might have half their zerg”
“A conquered people will always resist you,
Edair. But allies-allies will fight by your side”~Cobiah Mariner
1. Outmanned players give no XP, WxP, points(bloodlust), or loot when defeated
2. Outmanned NPC’s give no XP, WxP, loot or chests when defeated
3. Outmanned players who defeat non-outmanned players get higher XP, WxP and loot
4. Outmanned players who defeat non-outmanned NPC’s get higher XP, WxP, loot and an extra chest(s)
Remove outnumbered from players and give it to keep/tower lords.
So long as the keep or tower lord is outnumbered, gates and walls have 10x their health and take half as much damage from siege. All friendly siege within 5000 yards of the lord deals 5x the damage and have 10x the health.
That should show those off-hour heroes who’s boss!
I think thats a great idea. Since it would only trigger if the enemy tries to server blob in the middle of the night. That would allow for off-hours play while discouraging off-hour K-Training.
Not letting people in seems like a bad idea, sometimes you can’t help that your server has more people.
Stat boosts to players doesn’t seem good for multiple reasons (trying to get players to leave to get the boost, even more unfair 1v1 or other small scale fights…).
What I think might work is a boost to NPC stats.
For example: for every player a server has less than the server with most players that server’s NPCs get n% stat increase and m% respawn time reduction.
Possibly the numbers would need to be different for different types of NPC, camps shouldn’t get too much of an increase as I think they should still be able to be taken by a single player, sentries should definitely not defeat a decent player, but towers and the like could use some extra power as you probably shouldn’t be soloing those anyway.
I think that it’d be important that this would not be an on or off thing (like the current outnumbered) but depend on the number of players of each server.
Not letting people in seems like a bad idea, sometimes you can’t help that your server has more people.
I don’t think excluding people would happen in practice. Only because their would be no way for players to enforce it on their servermates. People would accept it and not try to rely on a buff but instead welcome reinforcements, if their ever come.
It could also add to strategy. Say someone says “oh they want to blob huh we’ll stay here and with our tiny force and the other 4 people online go to their borderland and make them pull off to defend.”
Not letting people in seems like a bad idea, sometimes you can’t help that your server has more people.
I don’t think excluding people would happen in practice. Only because their would be no way for players to enforce it on their servermates. People would accept it and not try to rely on a buff but instead welcome reinforcements, if their ever come.
It could also add to strategy. Say someone says “oh they want to blob huh we’ll stay here and with our tiny force and the other 4 people online go to their borderland and make them pull off to defend.”
The not letting people in bit was referreing to the second suggestion in the first post.
Assuming you are in fact referring to the first idea in that post:
Nobody could enforce it but I still wouldn’t like an incentive for having fewer players.
And there’d still be the even more unbalanced small scale fights.
(and 500% increase seems utterly ridiculous to me, not entirely sure how many people you’d need to take down 1 with such a buff but I’ll assume that’s just a number given as an example of the concept and not as an actual idea.)
And there’d still be the even more unbalanced small scale fights.
(and 500% increase seems utterly ridiculous to me, not entirely sure how many people you’d need to take down 1 with such a buff but I’ll assume that’s just a number given as an example of the concept and not as an actual idea.)
If the buff applied to keeps it would not effect small scale fights at all.
I suppose a havok group working as a distraction for their blob would not be able to take the tower they are on, but still they have a blob on map and are outnumbering you because they know coverage gaps are easy wins.
If the buff applied to keeps it would not effect small scale fights at all.
I suppose a havok group working as a distraction for their blob would not be able to take the tower they are on, but still they have a blob on map and are outnumbering you because they know coverage gaps are easy wins.
You’re referring to Atherakhia’s idea? (I was referring to the first post only in my post.)
That idea could work but isn’t complete enough to really discuss in my opinion, but I’ll try anyway. When would a lord be outnumbered? Is it the same as the current outnumbered? (If so why move it from the players to the lord in the first place?)
Gates and walls being 20x as tough is far, far too much.
I don’t like the idea of siege being powered up in certain circumstances (2 or 3 ACs are often enough to scare a group off, they are powerfull enough), extra health wouldn’t be that bad (though 10x is a bit much).
If this would be on or off (as opposed to scaling with how badly outnumbered you are) it might be an incentive for people not to play (both on the outnumbered and other server) which, to me, is a bad thing.
In my opinion, if outnumbered would affect the actual battle, it should still always be better to have more players (a player joining should always be good, a player leaving always bad). Outnumbered could compensate for a part of the lower numbers but not all and definitely not more than all. Objectives that can be (easily) done alone now should remain doable alone. It should not have much, if any, effect on small scale fights.
How about bufs along the line of (some not all of):
you tick every 5min (instead of 15)
your objectives count double at any tick
invulnerable bufs at bosses turned by you is 10min not 5.
invulnerability bufs have no effect on you as outmanned attacker
you do double damage on NPCs
you do double damage on doors & walls
you can carry twice as many supplies
your dollies run twice as fast
your doors and walls have double life
your (some/all) siege do double damage
stomps by you score double
stomps against you do not score
every kill you do score
dolly kills you do score twice
sentries you conquer score twice
…
Fights aren’t affected by that, but a well organized outmanned force may even win the score race against a dumb blob. The blob should be warned that he produced outmanned buf on opponent XYZ. Guerrilla war face becomes an option.
Outmanned originally had some buff to it. It was changed to a measurable reward, and no buffing, because there shouldn’t be a map mechanic that encourages a smaller set of allies to argue with a larger set of allies when the buff is removed from play.
Outmanned originally had some buff to it. It was changed to a measurable reward, and no buffing, because there shouldn’t be a map mechanic that encourages a smaller set of allies to argue with a larger set of allies when the buff is removed from play.
It’s a closed case.
I can’t find anything about that on the wiki, are you sure it was a buff?
It shouldn’t encourage argument if:
The bonus scales with how outnumbered you are (starting from giving a nearly unnoticable bonus when a server has 1 player less than the server with the nost players).
And the effect never fully compensates for the players you lack.
‘Outmanned’ is significant… just not for the reason one might wish. In actuality, the Outmanned icon is a reminder of just how poorly WvW is done in GW2.
It’s the ‘Dev fail’ icon
The slave dreams not of freedom, but of becoming the master.
That could be exploited. People could try and force others to stay away from WvW so they can abuse a 500% stat increase.
I would go with something else much simpler.
Replace the 4min countdown for automatic waypoint when defeated, with a countdown after which you are revived and become a Mist Walker like in Southsun Cove, invisible to enemies, but with no skills other than one to end Mist Walker. After another 4 minutes, you will be forced to revive on the spot if you didn’t end Mist Walker yet.
This way, when outnumbered instead going all the way back to base, you can wait 4 minutes, then move away while invisible for up to 4minutes, then continue doing stuff.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
Outnumbered buff don’t need any changes.
And we don’t wanna end with a “plz more ppl leave so we can get the Outnumbered buff”
And when a server is outnumbered somewhere he can have 100 player somewhere else.
While I agree with the sentiment and intention of the original poster (i.e. fairer matchups and/or a way to level the playing field if the matchup isn’t fair), I fear that the proposed solution (“Outnumbered – Make It Useful”) is not a feasible method of achieving these goals for the reason darko highlights.
Serious solution…make people with outnumbered buff on them drop nothing and give no WvW experience. Why reward the problem? When you make it not worth it people will find the balance themselves.
How about bufs along the line of (some not all of):
you tick every 5min (instead of 15)
your objectives count double at any tick
invulnerable bufs at bosses turned by you is 10min not 5.
invulnerability bufs have no effect on you as outmanned attacker
you do double damage on NPCs
you do double damage on doors & walls
you can carry twice as many supplies
your dollies run twice as fast
your doors and walls have double life
your (some/all) siege do double damage
stomps by you score double
stomps against you do not score
every kill you do score
dolly kills you do score twice
sentries you conquer score twice
…
Fights aren’t affected by that, but a well organized outmanned force may even win the score race against a dumb blob. The blob should be warned that he produced outmanned buf on opponent XYZ. Guerrilla war face becomes an option.
Outnumbered buff should not affect the score in anyway. That would only distort the matchup outcome and thus the ranking of the servers.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
Serious solution…make people with outnumbered buff on them drop nothing and give no WvW experience. Why reward the problem? When you make it not worth it people will find the balance themselves.
That’s a great suggestion for improving the outnumbered buff.
Simple
Reduces spawn camping/zergs hunting roamers
Does not distort the matchup score
Does not cause power issues
Does not make elitistic guilds trying to drive people off the map just to get the buff
A problem: You can no longer see the Outnumbered buff on your enemies. You would not be able to tell if your target yields loot or WXP.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
Someone in wvw said something earlier that made a ridiculous amount of sense: if the Outnumbered buff pops, upgrade speed is increased by two or even three times, building siege requires less supply, and outnumbered players are automatically given swiftness for the remainder of the buff.
It just.. well.. it sounds like it could work. If you’ve got people outnumbering you by 3x, give the outnumbered a true buff that would allow them a chance to counter. Why not?
Serious solution…make people with outnumbered buff on them drop nothing and give no WvW experience. Why reward the problem? When you make it not worth it people will find the balance themselves.
That’s a great suggestion for improving the outnumbered buff.
[..]
A problem: You can no longer see the Outnumbered buff on your enemies. You would not be able to tell if your target yields loot or WXP.
This could be used as a pseudo version of the buff icon though:
“We got no loot, they must be outmanned”.
Someone in wvw said something earlier that made a ridiculous amount of sense: if the Outnumbered buff pops, upgrade speed is increased by two or even three times, building siege requires less supply, and outnumbered players are automatically given swiftness for the remainder of the buff.
It just.. well.. it sounds like it could work. If you’ve got people outnumbering you by 3x, give the outnumbered a true buff that would allow them a chance to counter. Why not?
Why not? Because it will incentivise people to tell others to leave the border in order to get the buff. When you bear that in mind, you realise that the solution has to be unrelated to the Outmanned buff.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
