Guild Wars 2

I play on Desolation. Outside few night hours we have outnumbered “buff” on 3/4 maps at same time. Situation is often that we have 1-5 players on entire map, while the smallest enemy group is 20 or more. Actually real numbers don’t matter, because even 2 vs 1 or 6 vs 3 is a huge advantage for the former. I am quite sure this situation isn’t unique just to one server.

Since PPK no matters for total scoring, I suggest the following change:
If you kill an enemy who has outnumbered “buff” on, your server gains no points.

Constantly killing enemies with much higher numbers shouldn’t reward any points as this skews the points even more to the favor of the server with higher numbers.

The current outnumbered “buff” is a bad joke. It really doesn’t help at all (+33 % exp gain is totally useless as experienced gained in wvwvw doesn’t count for any masteries since you are level 80!).

I propose another change as well: outnumbered buff increases the hit points of the objectives and NPCs by 50%, making them slightly more durable, but not overly durable to superior enemy forces.

I would actually remove PPK entirely, because it promotes toxic play:
- gank teams (ganking and chasing small scale roamers increased a lot after PPK change, this leads to even more blobbing)
- exchanging/trading kills intentionally

Discuss!

I fully agree with you. If you have enough of 2 other servers on your map to cause outnumbered buff the situation is bad and usually makes for boring gameplay.

A lot of arguments would say people would somehow abuse the outnumbered buff by “forcing” people to leave or some such nonsense to get the buff to pop. I personally feel this is a ridiculous argument. But maybe the buff could become too powerful and should only be for defensive purposes like structure hitpoints and npc powerups.

I think you are close but I disagree with the last two. I don’t WvW to fight NPCs and am actually quite perturbed with how fast they respawn at gates and how much they interfere with real fights now. I would favor major buffs to real players when outnumbered.

I also like the dynamic and the diversity that PPK gives us now; I don’t mind the roving thieves/mesmers out to gank. The key is to have a counter or anti-gank squad doing it’s own roaming to clear them out.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Since PPK no matters for total scoring, I suggest the following change:
If you kill an enemy who has outnumbered “buff” on, your server gains no points.

When current PPK (1 point per kill) is put against current PPT, it isn’t particularly meaningful. This is especially true for T1 (where this is “sort of” a resemblance of balance in population). The difference between the highest and lowest kills is only about 5k-10k. I agree with the out numbered buff people shouldn’t provide PPK.

In my opinion fix PPT, and remove any form of “ticking for points” to discourage passive plays of sitting in keeps (loaded up with over powered defensive tactics), or flipping “empty” BLs knowing it will take forever to recap. Points should be given for active plays such as capping, and those points increase in the objectives’ tier (promote aggressive/risk taking). Upgrading can provide points that scale with tiers to the amount awarded. This bit should still provide incentive to hold the objective to upgrade.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Constantly killing enemies with much higher numbers shouldn’t reward any points as this skews the points even more to the favor of the server with higher numbers.

Yes, goes along with gaining no points on killing “outnumbered” buffed players.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The current outnumbered “buff” is a bad joke. It really doesn’t help at all (+33 % exp gain is totally useless as experienced gained in wvwvw doesn’t count for any masteries since you are level 80!).

Indeed. Honestly it should literally buff your stats so the outnumbered side has some hope of playing. Even the larger force is being bored…but if the outnumbered force is more threatening it should in theory create a fight.

Example:
+33% to all statistics (Why not double? Doubling would mean more abuse with some of the one shot, and running capabilities of some classes. That isn’t to say it still can’t be done with +33%)
33% cooldown reduction (non-stacking)
33% siege damage (so that there is hope of capping/defending)
33% movement speed (non-stacking) (Hopefully to allow more maneuverability)

Deniara Devious.3948:

I propose another change as well: outnumbered buff increases the hit points of the objectives and NPCs by 50%, making them slightly more durable, but not overly durable to superior enemy forces.

No, do not buff PvE aspect of WvW. There is already an “iron hide” for guards (50% damage reduction), which supports more passive plays (one of the annoying defensive tactics). Playing on t1 the lord can scale absurdly already. I cannot say that experience is the same in off hours or lower populated servers.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I would actually remove PPK entirely, because it promotes toxic play:
- gank teams (ganking and chasing small scale roamers increased a lot after PPK change, this leads to even more blobbing)
- exchanging/trading kills intentionally

Roaming is less of a thing in t1. There are “roamer” guilds that would camp spawns that could be considered “toxic play.” Again, as I have said the PPK score differences between server is fairly small to the amount of PPT provided by objectives. I don’t believe many people of any description “trade” kills intentionally. That’s even more boring…

To hopefully solve both problems…

Killing the same player within quick succession (get the time it takes to run from spawn to center of map) will award no PPK. Play with that time amount! It could be 1min-5min as an example. The idea of cutting off reinforcements is not hampered, but it should reduce the effectiveness of “spawn killing” or “toxic plays” that you feel PPK promotes.

or

Killing the same player within quick succession (within same time amount as before) provides a statistical buff to the dying player: “Victory or Death!” This is intended to push out “spawn campers” but at the risk of hurting the idea of cutting off reinforcements. Since this is theory, I don’t care if it stacks with the suggested “outnumbered” buff. It’s a something to be tested first then fixed.

Example of Victory or Death buff:
Duration of 1-2mins
+33% to all stats
33% to movement speed (non-stacking, should get the person to their destination faster or chase away the issue)

or

Both.

Outnumbered is not a BUFF, it is an effect that serves two primary purposes. To encourage players to stay on a map even when they dont have enough players, and to signal when their side has less players.

Enemies cannot see when you are outnumbered anymore, and why should they not get rewarded ppk simply because you have less on a map. What if you have 3 blobs on 3 other maps, and one map is outnumbered, that would be unfair and impractical.

X T D.6458:

Outnumbered is not a BUFF, it is an effect that serves two primary purposes. To encourage players to stay on a map even when they dont have enough players,

Except it fails to encourage players to stay…
Magic find and karma doesn’t matter if you cannot kill at a regular rate. You are better off open world pve-ing, because wvw isn’t as lucrative.

This is especially important to -new people- that would (in theory) grow WvW. How good is their experience if they have not a chance to make a difference? Wouldn’t they just hop on the next top server in their tier?

X T D.6458:

and to signal when their side has less players.

Yes, it does do this which in theory helps “scouts” in the dead desert borderlands if people still “scout.”

X T D.6458:

Enemies cannot see when you are outnumbered anymore, and why should they not get rewarded ppk simply because you have less on a map.

Why should they? (Very important to know)

I assume if the the “blob” completely capped everything they beat that timeslot/map. Does being denied the score on a few kills against “outnumbered” matter?

X T D.6458:

What if you have 3 blobs on 3 other maps, and one map is outnumbered, that would be unfair and impractical.

Since PPK is about score, that one map would still win through PPT for that map. Again, being denied the few kills on outnumbered wouldn’t affect it much (especially if the current PPK number of 1 is kept).

Is it fun to fight outnumbered people? See them go in out of portals/spawn?

As for this hypothetical… how many servers blob/map queue 3 maps nowadays? On JQ I see a 30 man queue for EBG, and others are barren with maybe 1 guild group for an hour or two during “NA prime.”

Chinchilla.1785:

Indeed. Honestly it should literally buff your stats so the outnumbered side has some hope of playing. Even the larger force is being bored…but if the outnumbered force is more threatening it should in theory create a fight.

Example:
+33% to all statistics (Why not double? Doubling would mean more abuse with some of the one shot, and running capabilities of some classes. That isn’t to say it still can’t be done with +33%)
33% cooldown reduction (non-stacking)
33% siege damage (so that there is hope of capping/defending)
33% movement speed (non-stacking) (Hopefully to allow more maneuverability)

So if I mange to find a nice relatively even fight on a map, you want to completely destroy that because somewhere on the map us or our opponents have a blob on the map so the other has the outnumbered buff, no thanks keep your gimmicks, WvW already has more than enough of them.

zinkz.7045:

Chinchilla.1785:

Indeed. Honestly it should literally buff your stats so the outnumbered side has some hope of playing. Even the larger force is being bored…but if the outnumbered force is more threatening it should in theory create a fight.

Example:
+33% to all statistics (Why not double? Doubling would mean more abuse with some of the one shot, and running capabilities of some classes. That isn’t to say it still can’t be done with +33%)
33% cooldown reduction (non-stacking)
33% siege damage (so that there is hope of capping/defending)
33% movement speed (non-stacking) (Hopefully to allow more maneuverability)

So if I mange to find a nice relatively even fight on a map, you want to completely destroy that because somewhere on the map us or our opponents have a blob on the map so the other has the outnumbered buff, no thanks keep your gimmicks, WvW already has more than enough of them.

Indeed, more context for a better idea of what you mean would be useful. Speaking from T1 or T8? I am going to assume you don’t mean a “1v1” (I don’t care, no apologies there. ) but maybe 15v15 (gvg style).

Yes, such a thing would be too dramatic. It may just be simple enough to not have “outnumbered” count towards score.

You could say, make a buff capped to the range of “spawn keep” and two “spawn towers.” But that is open to its own exploitation, like the “outnumbered” buff could provide enough time for the “blob” of the already stacked server to come defend.

The problem is the absence of “encouraged to play” is still left among the outnumbered server. I hope you have a solution, or any other concerns with this topic.

i once dreamed that the outnumbered buff is a buff to be reckoned with………
but it was buried now in the depths of the threads below…………

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I also like the dynamic and the diversity that PPK gives us now; I don’t mind the roving thieves/mesmers out to gank. The key is to have a counter or anti-gank squad doing it’s own roaming to clear them out.

If you read my post fully, you would have noted that our server usually has just 1-5 players per map. When have e.g. 2 players on the entire map and enemy has teams of 20+ and those gank squads, you simply cannot afford to have anti squad. And frequent ganking squads motivates most players to form larger groups, thus it just promotes zerging. I would say most top servers in EU are nothing but zergs.

And yes, Desolation is indeed highest ranked international server in EU. Player numbers have been this super low already for couple of months. If you don’t believe me, I can provide screenshots at multiple times, taken just 0-2 minutes from each other from all 4 maps, showing that 3-4 of those maps provide us with the outnumbered “buff”. Same situation around the clock, except few hours at night from 2 am to 8 am when our night team has about 10-20 players in total. Art from Deso Night Crew usually has about 10 ppl in squad, when he starts the open raid. At the same time I guess enemy servers have only half of those numbers, thus we outnumber them like 10-20 vs 5-10 at those night hours.

Chinchilla.1785:

Example of Victory or Death buff:
+33% to all stats
33% to movement speed (non-stacking, should get the person to their destination faster or chase away the issue)

I have written this before in other threads. The outnumbered buff should NOT give any stat bonuses to players, because this will utterly wreck small scale action.

Imagine a group of two thieves having +33 % buffs on their offensive stats as well. This will instantly kill any opponent from full health once the block wears out (and they could team up with a necro to corrupt boons, basilisk venom makes attacks non-blockable by the way).

The outnumbered buff could however provide bonuses to NPC, siege and structure health on that side which is being outnumbered. This would indeed slow down border hopping zergs, but on the positive side, it would encourage players to split up and try to take towers and keeps with just 2 players (which won’t trigger the buff on enemy side, if they also have 2 players or more).

Deniara Devious.3948:

Since PPK no matters for total scoring, I suggest the following change:
If you kill an enemy who has outnumbered “buff” on, your server gains no points.

You have 3 servers. Server A has 100 players on the map. Server B has 50 and gets outnumbered buff. Server C has 60 and does not get outnumbered buff. If server C kills player from server B, they do not get points while the number of players is almost same.

Next situation. Server A has zerg of 90 people taking keep in one corner of the map and 3 people taking camp in the other corner. Server B has blob of 25 people with outnumbered buff ganking those 3. Even when those 3 manage to kill 5 enemies they get no points because their server has zerg somewhere else.

FogLeg.9354:

You have 3 servers. Server A has 100 players on the map. Server B has 50 and gets outnumbered buff. Server C has 60 and does not get outnumbered buff. If server C kills player from server B, they do not get points while the number of players is almost same.

Next situation. Server A has zerg of 90 people taking keep in one corner of the map and 3 people taking camp in the other corner. Server B has blob of 25 people with outnumbered buff ganking those 3. Even when those 3 manage to kill 5 enemies they get no points because their server has zerg somewhere else.

These are more or less hypothetical examples. If you read my posts, the real numbers are much lower.

Most WvWvW players in top EU servers are opportunistic. So they go for what is the easiest = smallest. Larger numbers give you a huge advantage and larger groups usually win over smaller ones, thus larger groups tend to pick on the server which has the smallest group.

If server A has a zerg of 40 players and zerg B has a zerg of 30 players and server C has a zerg of 20 players, both A and B which outnumber C will most likely go after C. Attacking their objectives and players. Since that is where the easiest wins come.

Being outnumbered and enemy gaining points by killing you because you have much less players just doesn’t feel fair. And this needs to go asap! Even though the total score from kills is very minimal compared to the tick.

I was only pointing out that map-wide population is perhaps not only or the best way to create more interesting and fair fights

And if you think its bad for Desolation, I can also recommend to try joining FoW for some really bad situations. I know how it feels to be outnumbered and I also know how it feels to totally dominate over enemy server. I don’t like either.

Just I don’t see outnumbered buff very useful and I doubt tinkering with it will change anything much. Instead why not try something totally different?

Lets say there is map-wide Big Bucket of XP and Rewards for your server. Every time someone from your server completes events like capturing objective or killing an enemy, everyone involved takes some from that BB. More players = more is taken. Bucket will slowly fill up over time, but its slow and if you run around with large number of people it will get empty pretty fast. Once its empty, you earn nothing, no xp, no items. But your BB will be filled up fast when enemy does something, when enemy takes objective and earns xp from their BB. I believe most mindless blobs stop running when there is no rewards for them. This would effectively remove reason to run around in huge zerg against very few enemies, because nobody in that huge zerg would eventually get any rewards from doing that. However, if all 3 servers are about equal and all actively fights and do WvW stuff, there will be endless supply of xp and rewards for everyone.

In the end, players from overpopulated servers would start to leave and transfer into less popular servers simply because there is more xp and rewards for them to earn. Which is what we all want = situation where most if not all servers are somewhat equally populated and have good chance to fight against any other server.

This will also remove much of the problem with nightcapping since people capturing those empty maps would gain nothing and would just be wasting their time to increase server tick. I am sure some would still do it but hopefully it would become less popular.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Chinchilla.1785:

Example of Victory or Death buff:
+33% to all stats
33% to movement speed (non-stacking, should get the person to their destination faster or chase away the issue)

I have written this before in other threads. The outnumbered buff should NOT give any stat bonuses to players, because this will utterly wreck small scale action.

Imagine a group of two thieves having +33 % buffs on their offensive stats as well. This will instantly kill any opponent from full health once the block wears out (and they could team up with a necro to corrupt boons, basilisk venom makes attacks non-blockable by the way).

The outnumbered buff could however provide bonuses to NPC, siege and structure health on that side which is being outnumbered. This would indeed slow down border hopping zergs, but on the positive side, it would encourage players to split up and try to take towers and keeps with just 2 players (which won’t trigger the buff on enemy side, if they also have 2 players or more).

This is more of technicality thing, but what you quoted is not the “outnumbered” buff. This one is to deter spawn campers/toxic plays with a temporary boost after dying in quick succession within a time range. I read back on it now, and it is worded so it looked like it buffed the people that killed, not those that died (which was intended).

I also already concluded on the actual statistical boost to the current “outnumbered.”

See below:

Chinchilla.1785:

zinkz.7045:

Chinchilla.1785:

Indeed. Honestly it should literally buff your stats so the outnumbered side has some hope of playing. Even the larger force is being bored…but if the outnumbered force is more threatening it should in theory create a fight.

Example:
+33% to all statistics (Why not double? Doubling would mean more abuse with some of the one shot, and running capabilities of some classes. That isn’t to say it still can’t be done with +33%)
33% cooldown reduction (non-stacking)
33% siege damage (so that there is hope of capping/defending)
33% movement speed (non-stacking) (Hopefully to allow more maneuverability)

So if I mange to find a nice relatively even fight on a map, you want to completely destroy that because somewhere on the map us or our opponents have a blob on the map so the other has the outnumbered buff, no thanks keep your gimmicks, WvW already has more than enough of them.

Indeed, more context for a better idea of what you mean would be useful. Speaking from T1 or T8? I am going to assume you don’t mean a “1v1” (I don’t care, no apologies there. ) but maybe 15v15 (gvg style).

Yes, such a thing would be too dramatic. It may just be simple enough to not have “outnumbered” count towards score.

You could say, make a buff capped to the range of “spawn keep” and two “spawn towers.” But that is open to its own exploitation, like the “outnumbered” buff could provide enough time for the “blob” of the already stacked server to come defend.

The problem is the absence of “encouraged to play” is still left among the outnumbered server. I hope you have a solution, or any other concerns with this topic.

I am also already against buffing “pve” elements while “outnumbered.”

As is common in current NA T1:

YB has about 3 guilds of so called “EU” (11am est – 6pm est ). FoW, Exa, ROLL. This can make up 20, 15, 15 regularly. Then 15-20 mixed guild pugs.
BG has none most of the week (aSc? For the weekend I think). This can make up 15-20 people irregularly throughout the week. 10 mixed guild pugs (only if commander tag is present)
JQ has 1 guild for so called “EU” (usually 3pmest – 7pm est). Kazo. This can make up 20-30 irregularly. 15ish pugs (only if commander tag is present)

Because of this, YB’s better EU coverage…tends to win win the current way of scoring (PPT).

If Kazo with its 20-30 hop maps in hopes of capping things…they run into the “outnumbered” buffed NPCs that gives enough time for YB to hop over, and “voltron” (assuming YB has not already capped everything). At the very least, the “outnumbered” could in theory shift to Kazo, and YB would gain no PPK if that is implemented.

Either way, the “outnumbered” server is hampered by map wide statistical boosts.

Deniara Devious.3948:

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I also like the dynamic and the diversity that PPK gives us now; I don’t mind the roving thieves/mesmers out to gank. The key is to have a counter or anti-gank squad doing it’s own roaming to clear them out.

If you read my post fully, you would have noted that our server usually has just 1-5 players per map. When have e.g. 2 players on the entire map and enemy has teams of 20+ and those gank squads, you simply cannot afford to have anti squad. And frequent ganking squads motivates most players to form larger groups, thus it just promotes zerging. I would say most top servers in EU are nothing but zergs.

And yes, Desolation is indeed highest ranked international server in EU. Player numbers have been this super low already for couple of months. If you don’t believe me, I can provide screenshots at multiple times, taken just 0-2 minutes from each other from all 4 maps, showing that 3-4 of those maps provide us with the outnumbered “buff”. Same situation around the clock, except few hours at night from 2 am to 8 am when our night team has about 10-20 players in total. Art from Deso Night Crew usually has about 10 ppl in squad, when he starts the open raid. At the same time I guess enemy servers have only half of those numbers, thus we outnumber them like 10-20 vs 5-10 at those night hours.

Well, in the case that you have 2 vs 20 on the map here are your options:

a) Let them flip everything and wait for them to get bored and leave
b) Go to EOTM

I don’t think any kind of buff will help a 2 v 20 situation. You may have a slight chance of delaying them from taking an upgraded keep if it sieged up.

Few care about PPK except for some sort of silly bragging rights thrown around on GW2 WvW forums. It isn’t particularly meaningful to the score 99% of the time and is certainly not reflective of actual skill.

Keep it or leave it really doesn’t matter to me.

Lol… ROLL is not an EU guild. It’s NA. Doesn’t rally until 8:30 pm eastern.

Sarika.3756:

Lol… ROLL is not an EU guild. It’s NA. Doesn’t rally until 8:30 pm eastern.

Ahh yes, I think I meant PAIN. xD

Straegen.2938:

Few care about PPK except for some sort of silly bragging rights thrown around on GW2 WvW forums. It isn’t particularly meaningful to the score 99% of the time and is certainly not reflective of actual skill.

Keep it or leave it really doesn’t matter to me.

PPK isn’t but kill count is….logics.

Chinchilla.1785:

As is common in current NA T1:

YB has about 3 guilds of so called “EU” (11am est – 6pm est ). FoW, Exa, ROLL. This can make up 20, 15, 15 regularly. Then 15-20 mixed guild pugs.
BG has none most of the week (aSc? For the weekend I think). This can make up 15-20 people irregularly throughout the week. 10 mixed guild pugs (only if commander tag is present)
JQ has 1 guild for so called “EU” (usually 3pmest – 7pm est). Kazo. This can make up 20-30 irregularly. 15ish pugs (only if commander tag is present)

Because of this, YB’s better EU coverage…tends to win win the current way of scoring (PPT).

If Kazo with its 20-30 hop maps in hopes of capping things…they run into the “outnumbered” buffed NPCs that gives enough time for YB to hop over, and “voltron” (assuming YB has not already capped everything). At the very least, the “outnumbered” could in theory shift to Kazo, and YB would gain no PPK if that is implemented.

Either way, the “outnumbered” server is hampered by map wide statistical boosts.

Exa is the only EU guild listed there

FoW is a PUG militia force for YB founded before megaservers, with close to 500 in guild. At any given hour we may have 10-20 on but that’s a small subset and many don’t even WvW anymore after Desert BLs. We don’t have a website, we don’t run comps, we don’t force people to rep or WvW, we don’t GvG or force gear sets or builds, we don’t have meetings (t1 people love those it seems), we don’t run in specific timeslots. It’s laissez faire and people like it that way. Many of the old-time keep guards/scouts are in FoW and it’s more of for a guildchat “keep is in trouble” rather than teamchat. It’s a guild made for WvW , not GvG.

ROLL is a NA-time guild and I know this because I run with them often. They don’t run every day and during EU time you might find a few of them total (maybe one or two) depending on how early it is.

You might be thinking of Yaks Bend Inquisition / PAIN which sometimes extends into early EU after running OCX/SEA time. But you’re wrong to think they are EU.

P.S. I used to be on Desolation (EU) before YB.

Just make Outnumbered a decent buff to the outnumbered side with no effects on stats or the opposing servers. Like +500% MF, +100% WXP, +X (100?) points per kill.

Infusion.7149:

Chinchilla.1785:

As is common in current NA T1:

YB has about 3 guilds of so called “EU” (11am est – 6pm est ). FoW, Exa, ROLL. This can make up 20, 15, 15 regularly. Then 15-20 mixed guild pugs.
BG has none most of the week (aSc? For the weekend I think). This can make up 15-20 people irregularly throughout the week. 10 mixed guild pugs (only if commander tag is present)
JQ has 1 guild for so called “EU” (usually 3pmest – 7pm est). Kazo. This can make up 20-30 irregularly. 15ish pugs (only if commander tag is present)

Because of this, YB’s better EU coverage…tends to win win the current way of scoring (PPT).

If Kazo with its 20-30 hop maps in hopes of capping things…they run into the “outnumbered” buffed NPCs that gives enough time for YB to hop over, and “voltron” (assuming YB has not already capped everything). At the very least, the “outnumbered” could in theory shift to Kazo, and YB would gain no PPK if that is implemented.

Either way, the “outnumbered” server is hampered by map wide statistical boosts.

Exa is the only EU guild listed there.

I should preface this by saying, I probably should have chosen more words to explain I don’t consider any of them dedicated to the “EU” tag but it’s easier to say than “I see these guys during the times 11est am – 6estpm and at least twice a week.”

Infusion.7149:

FoW is a PUG militia force for YB founded before megaservers, with close to 500 in guild. At any given hour we may have 10-20 on but that’s a small subset and many don’t even WvW anymore after Desert BLs. We don’t have a website, we don’t run comps, we don’t force people to rep or WvW, we don’t GvG or force gear sets or builds, we don’t have meetings (t1 people love those it seems), we don’t run in specific timeslots. It’s laissez faire and people like it that way. Many of the old-time keep guards/scouts are in FoW and it’s more of for a guildchat “keep is in trouble” rather than teamchat. It’s a guild made for WvW , not GvG.

So it is basically a public guild for the server? Like KILL was for JQ? I can confirm that JQ does see the FoW scouts (and that guy…DK?) on during the most of the week. As for numbers (going with the preface) DK usually has 3-5 on him ‘repping’ FoW throughout the whole week (5-15 other pugs can follow him). We also see 10-15 FoW 2-3 times a week in either NA and/or EU time slot as described.

I am not here to say how you run your guild or say that FoW is EU. The point is, the guild provides additional coverage during the described “EU” time zone, even more so with the simple scouts calls of “keep is in trouble.” And I don’t know why T1 servers like their meetings. (SoR had theirs, BG has their High Council, and I think JQ has it too? Never been to it, lol).

Pro spy tip, JQ doesn’t really “scout” too much anymore. I guess they get bored, or nobody to respond? xD I know I wouldn’t, not lucrative/fun.

Infusion.7149:

ROLL is a NA-time guild and I know this because I run with them often. They don’t run every day and during EU time you might find a few of them total (maybe one or two) depending on how early it is.

You might be thinking of Yaks Bend Inquisition / PAIN which sometimes extends into early EU after running OCX/SEA time. But you’re wrong to think they are EU.

Yeah, same deal of “I don’t claim them to be EU, but just using the acronym for the times between 11est – 6pm est.” Even if they bleed over into early end of “EU” for 1-2 days it is still additional coverage.

Also see below about the “ROLL” thing, I get the guilds of YB confused unless they are BOO/GS. Go me.

Chinchilla.1785:

Sarika.3756:

Lol… ROLL is not an EU guild. It’s NA. Doesn’t rally until 8:30 pm eastern.

Ahh yes, I think I meant PAIN. xD

As I hate that your reply, and this reply have added nothing to the topic thread. Coverage/Outnumbered is a problem. YB players during that timezone are probably bored pvding, especially after SEA/during Early EU (11am est – 3pm est). eXa has my pity truly, because Kazo raids randomly during the week for JQ, and I believe BG got another guild of 10 for this timezone (Sorrow’s Furnace Warriors [WvW]?) who are very elusive. Combine that with the vast desert borderlands that aren’t conducive to finding one another, and fighting anyway.

If “outnumbered” helped bring life to that time zone it is the benefit of all three servers, and lower tiers where it can be even worse.