Guild Wars 2

PCG: With most of the expansion it’s easy to see how it’s an extension of the game. With the new WvW borderland map you’ve announced, that sounds more integrated into an existing thing. How does that affect World vs. World overall?

Answer on this page

I left the actual answer part on their page to make sure they still get their traffic view, but regardless… discuss?

Very helpful, thank you for posting!

I think this means they’ve designed a map that is intended to be centered around fighting for strategically valuable terrain. I will reserve judgement until i play on the map, but it sounds good

Sounds promising.

One thing I just thought of. How will the new Borderlands map factor into Map Completion?

Wait, they still think people enjoy siege v siege? I’m scared.

Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today

Erm what current rotation is he talking about? O.o

so people are going to be able to play the expansion pack for the first time in early March and then get into beta testing right after that

So that means a Summer release…. that’s too far off really.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today

Erm what current rotation is he talking about? O.o

I think he’s talking of a future rotation. Probably 1 week wvw is like now and the next week all BL’s are replaced with 3 of the new map or BL’s remain the same and EB is replaced with the new map.

Just ditch the Borderlands for good. Too much PvD.

The borderlands we have atm feel like PvD because nobody thinks anything else about the enemy borders than that they are Raiding maps. You go there with people and pillage, raid and break everything you can, then you warp back home/eb if some of your places get targeted.

If people would consentrate more on defending their side keeps it would be that much more. How many times have you seen someone upgrade Hills or Bay on enemy border? Few times, but those few times the objectives become a nuisance for the Home team.

If people would defend and upgrade those spawn keeps and towers it would make the BL a bit more interesting in the same way as EB is. But most people think that homeborder should be totally controlled by the home team, if not every single objective is bonus towards the enemy holding it.

style.6173:

Wait, they still think people enjoy siege v siege? I’m scared.

I do. Some of the most exciting battles ever. Open world battles are usually over so quickly it’s barely a battle at all.

Paavotar.3971:

The borderlands we have atm feel like PvD because nobody thinks anything else about the enemy borders than that they are Raiding maps. You go there with people and pillage, raid and break everything you can, then you warp back home/eb if some of your places get targeted.

If people would consentrate more on defending their side keeps it would be that much more. How many times have you seen someone upgrade Hills or Bay on enemy border? Few times, but those few times the objectives become a nuisance for the Home team.

If people would defend and upgrade those spawn keeps and towers it would make the BL a bit more interesting in the same way as EB is. But most people think that homeborder should be totally controlled by the home team, if not every single objective is bonus towards the enemy holding it.

That about sums it up. I can’t wait to see the new maps with towers in actual chokepoints and defensible locations. No more ninjaing keeps because you have to go through the tower first.

They still haven’t decided how many instances of the new map we get into the rotation (1 or 3). Personally, they should, at least in the beginning, replace all old BL maps with the new one and then maybe rotate them around later. Otherwise we will have the new map with 24/7 queue and the old BLs as empty as ever.

Kungsmurfen.2861:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today

Erm what current rotation is he talking about? O.o

I think he’s talking of a future rotation.

No, the way he has phrased it implies there is already a rotation, a rotation of one is not a rotation!

I do fear that the towers in choke points might become too strong. Can you go around them some other, a lot longer route? Because I don’t think we want to take effectiveness out of the roaming parties.

Also if there is an area that can be isolated from other areas by the tower I do hope there is no supply camps. Supply camps should be under constant danger, always. Otherwise the play around supplies and supply routes loses its meaning. A well defended fortification is really hard to take over if you can’t mess up their supply routes. Hills is a great example of this, it’s really really hard to take over if you can’t drain the keep out of supplies and it has a good defensive force inside and nearby.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Kungsmurfen.2861:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today

Erm what current rotation is he talking about? O.o

I think he’s talking of a future rotation.

No, the way he has phrased it implies there is already a rotation, a rotation of one is not a rotation!

The reddit afterparty thread from PAX South indicates that ANET doesn’t know what the rotation is going to be or how it is going to work yet which is probably why it sounds weird. I assume this will be one of the things they want to test in beta and get player feedback on so have at it. There has already been a little bit of discussion on the borderland map thread and probably others but maybe it all needs to get gathered together. Maybe Devon has a CDI in mind for it.

Cos past CDIs have given great results havent they…..

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Cos past CDIs have given great results havent they…..

Indeed. They have offered some very good results if you ask me.

coglin.1867:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Cos past CDIs have given great results havent they…..

Indeed. They have offered some very good results if you ask me.

Results?! What results?!
The only thing I have seen is coloured tag, and 1) It’s for the entire game not jsut WvW and 2) it took forever!
The commander CDI was over a year ago! It took them a year to copy and paste and fill in an icon with 3 other colours!!!

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

- Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built.

- Added slimmed down ram build sites.

- Added siege disablers.

coglin.1867:

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

- Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built.

- Added slimmed down ram build sites.

- Added siege disablers.

OMG look at all those content updates!

coglin.1867:

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

- Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built.

- Added slimmed down ram build sites.

- Added siege disablers.

I’m sorry but some of this information is incorrect.

-Map populations did not change, only server population limits were increased.
-The 5 man limit on damage abilities was always there. There was one change that made blocks and evades count towards the 5 player cap to avoid AOE hitting 6+ people.
- The boon cap was always 5 people, there was a change that prioritized party members.
ALL of those things are game wide and not WvW specific as well.

You also missed.

-Stealth and Supply Traps
-Siege decay timers and increased siege decay timer to 60 minutes
-Removed toys/gadgets from WvW maps
-Obsidian Sanctum was made into its own map with a large stadium to house player PvP events such as GvG and dueling tournaments.

And to be fair seasons was just a bunch of achievements added to the game that gave some vendor rewards that were lucky to include unique skins. Pretty minimal content wise.

Another important update was the fix to culling. However this was solved at a game wide level rather than a WvW level.

Actually, it looks like we will get a lot of what was discussed in DCI threads in the new expansion pack. Naturally in one way or another.

Map population did change. I would gather you do not actually know what the player caps are on EB or the BLs?

The limits did change. on both damage and buffs. Both based on player feed back. It went front unlimited, to 20, then to 5.

Otherwise, thanks for pointing out the ones I missed.

I disagree with you on the season. I feel the increased map ques and enthusiasm for effort invested, that i see, disagrees with you as well.

I am not saying they have mad perfect changes to WvW. Though I do get tired of the dishonest hyperbole every one loves to fling around.

coglin.1867:

Map population did change. I would gather you do not actually know what the player caps are on EB or the BLs?

The limits did change. on both damage and buffs. Both based on player feed back. It went front unlimited, to 20, then to 5.

Otherwise, thanks for pointing out the ones I missed.

I disagree with you on the season. I feel the increased map ques and enthusiasm for effort invested, that i see, disagrees with you as well.

I am not saying they have mad perfect changes to WvW. Though I do get tired of the dishonest hyperbole every one loves to fling around.

The player cap is 80 and always has been since release.

Boon share and damage abilities have been limited to 5 since release. Unless you are talking about beta numbers the only skills that are uncapped are CC abilities.

Enthusiasm is great, but it isn’t exactly content. I could hype people up to play the best game of Soccer in their life, but at the end of the day it’s still the same game of Soccer.

I believe all the little things they have fixed have been extremely important for day to day WvW play, but the lack of content has evidently seen the mass exodus of the modern day player.

They did use player feed back to adjust AoE caps in beta.

The player caps have indeed changed since release. Twice, actually. You are mistaken on the player cap Kai. Unless you have a link to evidence that supports your suggestion.

dancingmonkey.4902:

They did use player feed back to adjust AoE caps in beta.

The player caps have indeed changed since release. Twice, actually. You are mistaken on the player cap Kai. Unless you have a link to evidence that supports your suggestion.

At release people were citing 166 player caps, but the most I’ve ever seen is 76 on a freshly queued map after a map hop.

coglin.1867:

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

- Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built.

- Added slimmed down ram build sites.

- Added siege disablers.

Please stop copy pasting this ridiculously padded list. Some of these aren’t even WvWvW specific and some are just straight up removals like white swords and then orbs(because it was easier than addressing the hacking and population imbalances). Borderland lakes were removed rather than balancing and supporting water combat. Seasons, tag colors, smaller build sites and labels?? Oh snap, all that content! Stop it.

I’m not sure about the shrine changes, it makes it sound more like eotm.
Might be completly different but I got that opinion stuck in my head now. :/

coglin.1867:

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

You were specifically talking about the CDI, of those changes only pin colours were based on the CDIs and that was almost a monumental stuff up.

coglin.1867:

You chose to ignore facts, simply to support your negative attitude, that you want to have. That is fine. It doesn’t change the fact that it is disingenuous, given that a great many changes were made based on various CDI discussion, player feed back, or other discussion.

-They took out the water and added an entire new mechanic for points for spiking.

-They added righteous indignation to prevent flip spamming. Made multiple changes to it.

-Removed orbs from EB.

-Added WvW seasons.

-Added, restructured WvW trait lines.

-Ran tests for PPK

-Ran test for sword removal.

-Completely changed population cap per server map.

-Completely changed AoE cap to 5 due to massive community outcry.

-Completely changed boon buff cap due to massive community outcry

-Added different PIN colors.

-Added Art of war upgrades.

-Added siege razor to aid with under populated times on a server.

-Added new maps through edge of the mist due to massive community outcry

- Added siege names to the build sites to prevent troll siege from being built.

- Added slimmed down ram build sites.

- Added siege disablers.

And almost nothing of that came from CDIs. In fact, I’m almost certain that only the PIN colors were subjects of a CDI thread.

The problem with sieges: its boring. 10 men inside, 5 outside shooting each other and the others just sit.

Paavotar.3971:

I do fear that the towers in choke points might become too strong. Can you go around them some other, a lot longer route? Because I don’t think we want to take effectiveness out of the roaming parties.

Also if there is an area that can be isolated from other areas by the tower I do hope there is no supply camps. Supply camps should be under constant danger, always. Otherwise the play around supplies and supply routes loses its meaning. A well defended fortification is really hard to take over if you can’t mess up their supply routes. Hills is a great example of this, it’s really really hard to take over if you can’t drain the keep out of supplies and it has a good defensive force inside and nearby.

Yes will be interesting to see. However, it could be the “chokepoint” is quite wide and blocked by a longer wall. If you don’t have time to take the tower, you could just quickly smash down the wall further down and push through. This can be done with 1-2 guild catapults and a small havoc group before the white swords even pop.

It’s also going to be interesting how big areas those walls separate. Are there hiding spots for havoc squads within the walled areas so they can escape lynch mobs given enough skill and will, and keep capping the objectives within even if they’re separated from the spawn by the now-repaired wall. This could also give incentive to the “lynch mobs” to actively hunt down said havoc squads because you know they won’t be back in just 2 minutes after you kill them.

It would give a whole new meaning for being “behind enemy lines”, because those lines would be real. At the moment it’s far too easy to “sneak” into the north camp of the borderlands, even if its right under the nose of the citadel. Havoc squads can be reckless because even if the worst happens and they wipe, they can be back in just a minute or two because there is nothing to stop their roaming.

Tl:dr, towers at chokepoints will not be the death of havoc squads. It’s just the death of bad havoc squads

McWolfy.5924:

The problem with sieges: its boring. 10 men inside, 5 outside shooting each other and the others just sit.

If that’s how the numbers are in the siege, you’re trying to take the objective with far too little manpower. Defensive structures are meant to give an advantage over larger numbers. If the defenders have more siege and more defenders than the attackers, the siege should fail, or at least be significantly longer. Keep in mind that a sieged tower will eventually run out of supply if the siege lasts long enough, while the sieging army has infinite supplies to draw upon.

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Map population did change. I would gather you do not actually know what the player caps are on EB or the BLs?

The limits did change. on both damage and buffs. Both based on player feed back. It went front unlimited, to 20, then to 5.

Otherwise, thanks for pointing out the ones I missed.

I disagree with you on the season. I feel the increased map ques and enthusiasm for effort invested, that i see, disagrees with you as well.

I am not saying they have mad perfect changes to WvW. Though I do get tired of the dishonest hyperbole every one loves to fling around.

The player cap is 80 and always has been since release.

Boon share and damage abilities have been limited to 5 since release. Unless you are talking about beta numbers the only skills that are uncapped are CC abilities.

Enthusiasm is great, but it isn’t exactly content. I could hype people up to play the best game of Soccer in their life, but at the end of the day it’s still the same game of Soccer.

I believe all the little things they have fixed have been extremely important for day to day WvW play, but the lack of content has evidently seen the mass exodus of the modern day player.

They changed the cap.
Once it was an absolute limite and it was possible to be outmanned but still full. One side was 20 people the other 30 and the 3rd 190.
I still think the full borders from every sides dont mean equivalent numbers

McWolfy.5924:

Kai.9182:

coglin.1867:

Map population did change. I would gather you do not actually know what the player caps are on EB or the BLs?

The limits did change. on both damage and buffs. Both based on player feed back. It went front unlimited, to 20, then to 5.

Otherwise, thanks for pointing out the ones I missed.

I disagree with you on the season. I feel the increased map ques and enthusiasm for effort invested, that i see, disagrees with you as well.

I am not saying they have mad perfect changes to WvW. Though I do get tired of the dishonest hyperbole every one loves to fling around.

The player cap is 80 and always has been since release.

Boon share and damage abilities have been limited to 5 since release. Unless you are talking about beta numbers the only skills that are uncapped are CC abilities.

Enthusiasm is great, but it isn’t exactly content. I could hype people up to play the best game of Soccer in their life, but at the end of the day it’s still the same game of Soccer.

I believe all the little things they have fixed have been extremely important for day to day WvW play, but the lack of content has evidently seen the mass exodus of the modern day player.

They changed the cap.
Once it was an absolute limite and it was possible to be outmanned but still full. One side was 20 people the other 30 and the 3rd 190.
I still think the full borders from every sides dont mean equivalent numbers

I don’t think it has ever worked like that and I’ve played since the pre-release. Do you have some proof or are you just pulling that from thin air?

People see what they want to see and they’re really bad at counting. I’ve taken screenshots of some “zergs” because people have claimed absurd numbers. Turns out a zerg of 20 looks like a zerg of 50 to quite many players.

Can you think of a single reason why Anet would have higher cap for one faction than the others?