Guild Wars 2

The PPK experiment has been well received.

However it needs more development before it should be added to the game.

1. Point for killing blow only

Now your server gets a point if you just tag an enemy. This leads to siege/ranged AoE spam on top of fights between the enemy zergs.

If the point was given for killing blow only, then the only the server which deserves it gets rewarded.

2. Handle special cases

Maybe these are already handled, but I somehow doubt it.

If the enemy dies but not by a killing blow, the server which had the player tagged should gain a point. Or both servers if that is the case.

• Point for NPC/fall deaths
• Point for ALT-F4/disconnect
• Point for unsuccessful Vengeance skill

3. Triple Bloodlust points

Delivering a killing blow is too easy compared to stomping. Especially in larger fights. This needs balancing.

Increasing the bloodlust points would encourage skillful play instead of mindless #1 spam.

4. Display non-PPT points

Make the points for player kills, Bloodlust stomps, sentry kills, dolyak escorts and dolyak kills visible.

At minimum in the WvW details window. For example:

• Dolyaks escorted 1212
• Dolyaks killed 372
• Sentry points captured 281
• Bloodlust points gained 236
• Enemies defeated 183
• Total non-PPT points 2284

Display the points earned in the combat log. With an option of suppress these messages. BTW please make the timestamps in combat log have precision of one tenth of a second. A lot can happen within a minute while player is in combat.

For example:
12:34:56.7 – You have earned 3 server points for killing a dolyak.

A nice addition would be floating combat text for each server point earned. With option to turn it off. Perhaps also flash the WvW icon on top of the screen.
For example:
+3 with dolyak killed symbol

5. Collect data at player/guild level

Collect data when a player and the guild he/she represents gains points for the server.

• Display the data in-game in hero window and guild window.
• Make the data available on the Leaderboards and make it easy to access named player’s/guild’s points for each match-up.
• Provide API for external web sites.

Korgov.7645:

The PPK experiment has been well received.

However it needs more development before it should be added to the game.

1. Point for killing blow only

Now your server gets a point if you just tag an enemy. This leads to siege/ranged AoE spam on top of fights between the enemy zergs.

If the point was given for killing blow only, then the only the server which deserves it gets rewarded.

2. Handle special cases

Maybe these are already handled, but I somehow doubt it.

If the enemy dies but not by a killing blow, the server which had the player tagged should gain a point. Or both servers if that is the case.

• Point for NPC/fall deaths
• Point for ALT-F4/disconnect
• Point for unsuccessful Vengeance skill

3. Triple Bloodlust points

Delivering a killing blow is too easy compared to stomping. Especially in larger fights. This needs balancing.

Increasing the bloodlust points would encourage skillful play instead of mindless #1 spam.

4. Display non-PPT points

Make the points for player kills, Bloodlust stomps, sentry kills, dolyak escorts and dolyak kills visible.

At minimum in the WvW details window. For example:

• Dolyaks escorted 1212
• Dolyaks killed 372
• Sentry points captured 281
• Bloodlust points gained 236
• Enemies defeated 183
• Total non-PPT points 2284

Display the points earned in the combat log. With an option of suppress these messages. BTW please make the timestamps in combat log have precision of one tenth of a second. A lot can happen within a minute while player is in combat.

For example:
12:34:56.7 – You have earned 3 server points for killing a dolyak.

A nice addition would be floating combat text for each server point earned. With option to turn it off. Perhaps also flash the WvW icon on top of the screen.
For example:
+3 with dolyak killed symbol

5. Collect data at player/guild level

Collect data when a player and the guild he/she represents gains points for the server.

• Display the data in-game in hero window and guild window.
• Make the data available on the Leaderboards and make it easy to access named player’s/guild’s points for each match-up.
• Provide API for external web sites.

A dev already stated that you don’t get a point per tag on an enemy, its awarded per death of the enemy so only one point is awarded per death. This among other issues were explained to have already been taken care of.

Zetsumei.4975:

A dev already stated that you don’t get a point per tag on an enemy, its awarded per death of the enemy so only one point is awarded per death. This among other issues were explained to have already been taken care of.

I remember seeing some answers from Dev somewhere on these forums, but since the search function is broken I cannot find it anymore.

As I recall it, he explained that if red and green invaders together manage to kill blue invader, both red and green server gets a point. Which is tag for a point, not killing blow for a point.

I still don’t trust the special cases being taken care of until players can confirm it. And one has to test these after every patch due lack of source control and regression testing.

I really like this PPK. But some changes I would prefer:

1) Bloodlust stomps now grant 2 pts as opposed to the current 1 pt for a stomp. This rewards roamers/havoc and slightly punishes zergs/blobs where it is just AOE deaths.

2) PPK and bloodlust points are doubled per kill on maps that you have the outmanned buff.

I don’t see how #1 would fix that issue—in fact, I think that Change would make it even worst. Now server 3 can wait on the sidelines while server 1 and 2 engages, wait until one side gets low or singled, then immediately push in to take the killing blow, and not only get the ppk point, but also deprive the server that actually deserved the point of it.

I think, in light of the ppk change, bloodlust needs a complete reworking, not just a rebalancing.

makken.1754:

I don’t see how #1 would fix that issue—in fact, I think that Change would make it even worst. Now server 3 can wait on the sidelines while server 1 and 2 engages, wait until one side gets low or singled, then immediately push in to take the killing blow, and not only get the ppk point, but also deprive the server that actually deserved the point of it.

I think, in light of the ppk change, bloodlust needs a complete reworking, not just a rebalancing.

Consider a zerg fight where 50 green zerglings spam #1 on a poor red warrior. If a blue ranger tries to steal the point from green server, he only has 1:50 change of delivering a killing blow. In grand scale of things the server which deserves it gets the point.

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

I like to see the points a world grates with ppk vs ppt. Though over all i think ppt needs to get a bit of a nerf and ppk needs to cover about 50% of the points per week.

Jski.6180:

I like to see the points a world grates with ppk vs ppt. Though over all i think ppt needs to get a bit of a nerf and ppk needs to cover about 50% of the points per week.

The high tier matchups already have almost 50% non-PPT score. Low tier matchups only reach 25%.

Source:
http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/hidden_points_percent/desc

PPK was introduced on the 16th of December. Browse back to previous weeks’ records and follow how Gunnar’s Hold’s non-PPT score has evolved. They seem to be getting a lot of points for kills.

Korgov.7645:

Jski.6180:

I like to see the points a world grates with ppk vs ppt. Though over all i think ppt needs to get a bit of a nerf and ppk needs to cover about 50% of the points per week.

The high tier matchups already have almost 50% non-PPT score. Low tier matchups only reach 25%.

Source:
http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/hidden_points_percent/desc

PPK was introduced on the 16th of December. Browse back to previous weeks’ records and follow how Gunnar’s Hold’s non-PPT score has evolved. They seem to be getting a lot of points for kills.

Deso ftw!

Korgov.7645:

Jski.6180:

I like to see the points a world grates with ppk vs ppt. Though over all i think ppt needs to get a bit of a nerf and ppk needs to cover about 50% of the points per week.

The high tier matchups already have almost 50% non-PPT score. Low tier matchups only reach 25%.

Source:
http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/hidden_points_percent/desc

PPK was introduced on the 16th of December. Browse back to previous weeks’ records and follow how Gunnar’s Hold’s non-PPT score has evolved. They seem to be getting a lot of points for kills.

I was thinking the lower tier worlds when i was saying this and part of the ppk as things stand are from yack and other npc kill points. I want to see the speraion between ppk and ppcp. Its silly to win out a week because your fighting no one high ppt prompts this we need to get ppl to stop hiding behind walls and get points passively.

Korgov.7645:

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

:/ thats like saying if anet multplied damage several hundred times so that 1 hit would kill an opponent meaning the game boiled down to whoever landed the first hit it would be fine because they were being outplayed within those mechanics.

Bloodlust was reduced because it was way too OPed when it was first released. Some other good suggestions though

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

:/ thats like saying if anet multplied damage several hundred times so that 1 hit would kill an opponent meaning the game boiled down to whoever landed the first hit it would be fine because they were being outplayed within those mechanics.

As it is now tag for point the game has boiled down to whoever can hit most targets. 1 single hit gains a point. Which is terribly cheap.

There are servers that have upto 25% of their total score from tagging enemies now.

Korgov.7645:

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

:/ thats like saying if anet multplied damage several hundred times so that 1 hit would kill an opponent meaning the game boiled down to whoever landed the first hit it would be fine because they were being outplayed within those mechanics.

As it is now tag for point the game has boiled down to whoever can hit most targets. 1 single hit gains a point. Which is terribly cheap.

There are servers that have upto 25% of their total score from tagging enemies now.

Oh nah if you mean tagging for points not for loot then don’t worry, a dev stated that even if a blob of 50 tag one guy the server only gains one point in accordance of it being one death.

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

:/ thats like saying if anet multplied damage several hundred times so that 1 hit would kill an opponent meaning the game boiled down to whoever landed the first hit it would be fine because they were being outplayed within those mechanics.

As it is now tag for point the game has boiled down to whoever can hit most targets. 1 single hit gains a point. Which is terribly cheap.

There are servers that have upto 25% of their total score from tagging enemies now.

Oh nah if you mean tagging for points not for loot then don’t worry, a dev stated that even if a blob of 50 tag one guy the server only gains one point in accordance of it being one death.

The scenario where tag-for-point becomes bad:

50 blue invaders fight 50 green invaders. 1 red invader spams AoE on top of the fight. Green zerg prevails and kills all blue invaders. Green server gets 50 points which is fine. But red server also gets 50 points!!!

Korgov.7645:

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

Zetsumei.4975:

Korgov.7645:

In all those3 scenarios players got outplayed by other players. Not outplayed by poor game mechanics. All good.

:/ thats like saying if anet multplied damage several hundred times so that 1 hit would kill an opponent meaning the game boiled down to whoever landed the first hit it would be fine because they were being outplayed within those mechanics.

As it is now tag for point the game has boiled down to whoever can hit most targets. 1 single hit gains a point. Which is terribly cheap.

There are servers that have upto 25% of their total score from tagging enemies now.

Oh nah if you mean tagging for points not for loot then don’t worry, a dev stated that even if a blob of 50 tag one guy the server only gains one point in accordance of it being one death.

The scenario where tag-for-point becomes bad:

50 blue invaders fight 50 green invaders. 1 red invader spams AoE on top of the fight. Green zerg prevails and kills all blue invaders. Green server gets 50 points which is fine. But red server also gets 50 points!!!

Ahh yeah that problem I agree on, the dev tried to make it out that there was something in place to cover that but it was pretty clear from the response that that issue hadn’t been looked at

Fuzzion.2504:

Bloodlust was reduced because it was way too OPed when it was first released. Some other good suggestions though

And now the ruins are empty again with no one bothering to take bloodlust. Typical knee-jerk reaction there.