Guild Wars 2

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

Sorry, but 1500 toughness is kinda low. (Like none of my 80’s are that low.) What where you running?

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

Actually he did. The thief class is designed to have the highest single target burst (funny story though, it doesnt). There is no issue with the amount of damage he dealt, that same warrior, if fully geared and traited for damage could have done as more or more damage with hundred blades, or killshot, or even axe AUTOATTACK. thats right, warrior axe autoattack does more damage than backstab. pay attention when standing on open ground in wvw.

Shemsu.8721:

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

Actually he did. The thief class is designed to have the highest single target burst (funny story though, it doesnt). There is no issue with the amount of damage he dealt, that same warrior, if fully geared and traited for damage could have done as more or more damage with hundred blades, or killshot, or even axe AUTOATTACK. thats right, warrior axe autoattack does more damage than backstab. pay attention when standing on open ground in wvw.

No, no he didn’t.

The point was that you can be instantly bursted down from 100 to 0 in <0.5 seconds, with nothing that you can do about it. Heck, with the latency that I have, I’d probably be dead even before seeing it on my screen.

Hundred Blades, Killshot (unless casted from stealth), and axe autoattack are all telegraphed moves. Warriors also don’t have an instant 900 range blink.

Edit: You would probably make a better point if you used S/D burst Eles or Shatter Mesmers. On the other hand, they don’t even burst as hard, or as quickly.

Thief should die if he take any kind of damage in stealth. Of course thief would still be op like kitten, but other professions could get some lucky shots against some kitten thiefs who can’t dodge.

Sunflowers.1729:

Shemsu.8721:

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

Actually he did. The thief class is designed to have the highest single target burst (funny story though, it doesnt). There is no issue with the amount of damage he dealt, that same warrior, if fully geared and traited for damage could have done as more or more damage with hundred blades, or killshot, or even axe AUTOATTACK. thats right, warrior axe autoattack does more damage than backstab. pay attention when standing on open ground in wvw.

No, no he didn’t.

The point was that you can be instantly bursted down from 100 to 0 in <0.5 seconds, with nothing that you can do about it. Heck, with the latency that I have, I’d probably be dead even before seeing it on my screen.

Hundred Blades, Killshot (unless casted from stealth), and axe autoattack are all telegraphed moves. Warriors also don’t have an instant 900 range blink.

Edit: You would probably make a better point if you used S/D burst Eles or Shatter Mesmers. On the other hand, they don’t even burst as hard, or as quickly.

They will never understand this, because people who says such things never ever played another class besides a thief,

Once they heard “hundred blades does 26k damage”, “killshot does 16k damage!” so they think “a 14k backstab is ok, furthermore is not AoE!”

They are noobs, they would be useless in any spvp match and all they know to do is the same scripted rotation over and over again, if they fail miserably against a good player their brains switch to phase 2 and “operation i’m a kitten” begins,

And telling people to “avoid open places” in WvW… I don’t know what to think, maybe we are playing diferent games,

Shatter mesmers are not that dangerous, unless you are running with no stun breakers,

Burst eles are the same if not worst, at least you can see them coming but the damage and survivability is ridiculous,

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

And my point is they asked for it. They failed to use situational awareness. They made themselves accessible to the thief. So whether or not they got killed, it was their fault that they got ambushed. Also here is a little secret…

Zacchary.6183:

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

And my point is they asked for it. They failed to use situational awareness. They made themselves accessible to the thief. So whether or not they got killed, it was their fault that they got ambushed. Also here is a little secret…

So what if I stealth in then do the combo (just as the stealth times out)?

Next you’re gonna tell me that ‘situational awareness’ (congratulations, you managed to slip a fancy term in) involves placing stealth traps everywhere you stand?

Zacchary.6183:

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

That’s a reach.

Sunflowers.1729:

Zacchary.6183:

Monsoon.2589:

Zacchary.6183:

EvilSardine.9635:

Dual.8953:

17k is a number I’ve heard attached to 100nades, but I’ve yet rarely heard with BS (like once against someone without armour rare).

Say again? This backstab was done to my warrior with 1500 toughness. I had full health, no conditions like vunerability, or anything. I was just standing outside of my keep watching a few people in the distance. I died in just two hits (C&D and BS).

Thieves, how can I “L2P” if I can’t see almost 20K in damage coming?

You were standing outside the keep. You were too busy watching those few people to scan the other 260 degrees for incoming enemies. Your fault for letting you guard down and standing out in the open.

I believe you are the original thief troll forum warrior I have heard so much about…a unique combination.

You did not address the point the person was making which was about the amount of damage dealt in 2 hits and in instead blamed the person for not being prepared and ready to be attacked by an invisible foe. Further more, your original first two posts on his issue on the first page clearly seem to show a lack of maturity and a clear desire for trolling instead

And my point is they asked for it. They failed to use situational awareness. They made themselves accessible to the thief. So whether or not they got killed, it was their fault that they got ambushed. Also here is a little secret…

So what if I stealth in then do the combo (just as the stealth times out)?

Next you’re gonna tell me that ‘situational awareness’ (congratulations, you managed to slip a fancy term in) involves placing stealth traps everywhere you stand?

There is this thing called the “camera” which can move 360 degrees and it shows you things like that thief that just stealthed about 2-3k yards away who is trying to land that backstab.

There is also this thing called a “wall” that you can stand on and watch people die while you bask in the quasi-safety of your keep. Not only that, there is a great chance the thief won’t be able to hit you from there.

I don’t know if you guys heard of them.

You should learn how to counter thieves instead of saying “nerf them!” They ARE counterable, believe me, my thief is my main.

Also, using CnD triggers stealth such that we lose it, only if we can hit CnD as soon as we loose stealth can we maintain it. D/P is a different beast though.

In all honesty, just avoid them or learn to counter. There are certain classes I can’t kill either, and I’m not complaining, I just move on.

Zacchary.6183:

There is this thing called the “camera” which can move 360 degrees and it shows you things like that thief that just stealthed about 2-3k yards away who is trying to land that backstab.

There is also this thing called a “wall” that you can stand on and watch people die while you bask in the quasi-safety of your keep. Not only that, there is a great chance the thief won’t be able to hit you from there.

I don’t know if you guys heard of them.

I’m glad this guy does not play my main class, without any doubt he’s the worst lawyer I ever saw,

Engels.8537:

Zacchary.6183:

There is this thing called the “camera” which can move 360 degrees and it shows you things like that thief that just stealthed about 2-3k yards away who is trying to land that backstab.

There is also this thing called a “wall” that you can stand on and watch people die while you bask in the quasi-safety of your keep. Not only that, there is a great chance the thief won’t be able to hit you from there.

I don’t know if you guys heard of them.

I’m glad this guy does not play my main class, without any doubt he’s the worst lawyer I ever saw,

Oh yes, I forgot. We can trait for the 15,000 range shadowstep-steal that bypasses walls and kills the Keep Lord in one hit. I can also snipe you from across the map with my 90,000 range Insta-death stealth shot. Let’s not forget about the near infinite amount of walls I destroyed with my infiniteclusterbomb spam.

On another note, it would really help your cause if any of you knew what you were talking about.

I constantly here thieves say counter, but please indulge me with methods of countering.

I didn’t realize that a 16k back stab is balanced. There is not one skill, attack in GW2 with a ranger, where I can do equal amount of damage to said enemy. And I can be completely geared for the highest power/precision/crit. Which I am and have a little over 15k health, so basically thieves can one shot. So a thief recommendation is to

A. L2P nub
B. Counter (which all claim is overly easy, but yet to hear a proper counter method, because let’s face it. If you cannot see the enemy, you’re guessing where said person is, so really it’s shooting in the wind. Also note a good thief can easily have a speed buff and run behind you and hit you for 10k+dmg, and literally go back into stealth within 2 seconds after. )
C. Avoid them- Honestly? I don’t go out searching for thieves, and I don’t run away either.

Basically it usually consist of a thief seeing me, and I seeing them, they come at me and stealth, I start to back track a tad by back walking, at which point you have to assume hes right on your tail. So naturally I kite back or to the side with dodge. which that 2 second window I’m hit for above damage. I manage to get a shot or two off and maybe mash two skills to try and counter, but hes now back in stealth. So I use “quick shot” off my SB to go back again, and then use my final dodge. now with recharge timers, it’s me against the wind.

I have around 15-16k health, so it only takes two or three hits to but my down. and with recharge on health, it’s a must use after the first strike.

honestly we can go around the table about this all day, and in the end of the day it doesn’t matter. This is my first time making a statement about this, even though thieves have been OP since release. Want to call BS? Go look on youtube, GW2 Thief WvW. One of the first vids, of a guy who manages to kill countless invaders between anzalias pass and SM.

Fact of the matter is, if the GW2 skill balance team (won’t mention the names) thinks this class is perfectly suited for GW2 PvP/WvW so be it. I won’t talk about it anymore.

Shadowblade.2103:

Please for the love of god nerf the god kitten perma-stealth build. It is such a pile of crap that I have to use stealth traps to kill a thief anymore. If you won’t nerf the build, then at least give some classes something that cancels out stealth. Im not talking crap AC skills and expensive traps, im talking like an actual skill or two.

agreed and while you are at it, give eles rtl buff and mesmers their confusion back!

Oroibahazopi.9074:

You’re a mesmer, you can easily get away and/or force him off you because you have a lot of invulnerability and stealth

nope we dont unless traited. i do not use a torch or a sword for my build, there is no invul for me. or are u saying and entire class has to have the same build to be able to beat and actually kill a permastealth thief?

Everybody (except zacchary because he’s… well he’s zacchary) understood that we are talking about d/p thieves, right?

Thieves are typically easy to kill.

Good players are going to be harder but they can still be beat. Good players are going to make any class hard to go against.

Still don’t understand why you all can’t learn how to deal with thieves with your own builds instead of asking for a nerf. Much harder but more rewarding if you just learn.

Shadowblade.2103:

Please for the love of god nerf the god kitten perma-stealth build. It is such a pile of crap that I have to use stealth traps to kill a thief anymore. If you won’t nerf the build, then at least give some classes something that cancels out stealth. Im not talking crap AC skills and expensive traps, im talking like an actual skill or two.

Too late in the game to do this. Might as well enjoy another game till ESO comes out.

selan.8354:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

You’re a mesmer, you can easily get away and/or force him off you because you have a lot of invulnerability and stealth

nope we dont unless traited. i do not use a torch or a sword for my build, there is no invul for me. or are u saying and entire class has to have the same build to be able to beat and actually kill a permastealth thief?

No. You adapt and use other things. Scepter for example has a block. If thief is stealth you can use that block. Once the “blocked” text, either dodge if you have the clone on dodge trait (thief will backstab clone and be revealed) or turn around and not take much damage.

And torch as a counter to thief is dumb, I’ll just perma stealth until your stealth runs out.

Shadowblade.2103:

Please for the love of god nerf the god kitten perma-stealth build. It is such a pile of crap that I have to use stealth traps to kill a thief anymore. If you won’t nerf the build, then at least give some classes something that cancels out stealth. Im not talking crap AC skills and expensive traps, im talking like an actual skill or two.

your answer is found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/PIC-22-215-damage-Thief-FUN/first#post2409169

roll and engineer and you will kill all thieves, all the time.

Archon.6481:

selan.8354:

Oroibahazopi.9074:

You’re a mesmer, you can easily get away and/or force him off you because you have a lot of invulnerability and stealth

nope we dont unless traited. i do not use a torch or a sword for my build, there is no invul for me. or are u saying and entire class has to have the same build to be able to beat and actually kill a permastealth thief?

No. You adapt and use other things. Scepter for example has a block. If thief is stealth you can use that block. Once the “blocked” text, either dodge if you have the clone on dodge trait (thief will backstab clone and be revealed) or turn around and not take much damage.

And torch as a counter to thief is dumb, I’ll just perma stealth until your stealth runs out.

i use scepter and i am ok with all that u suggested, but if u didnt see the thief at all while running towards your group and yes i always look around me, none of your steps will help. u cannot counter what u havent seen.

plus we had to deal with permastealth thieves in keeps lordsroom that were way to fast and barely visible. yes we used stealthtraps, but we had to call more people in to mass aoe the entire inner and i took us quite some time to kill him. that should not be happening that 1 player can troll 15 people with permastealth and dont come with “oh well you guys must be horrible then and you guys need to learn to play and u guys suck if u need 15 people..and all that kitten!!!!”

problem with permastealth is that people in stealth are not only blessed with being invisible, but they are incredibly fast already and can pretty much troll forever with short cd’s, fast healing(if traited), condition removal, crits and that is the problem. a non permastealth thief can actually be fun to fight and is fine.

but anet also doesnt give a thief much choice atm as permastealth is the meta in wvw roaming and there arent many builds for them out there.

Engels.8537:

Everybody (except zacchary because he’s… well he’s zacchary) understood that we are talking about d/p thieves, right?

The same bullkitten applies with d/p.

Were anoying that they can steatlh when ever and how ofen they like with makes it a pain to flush out off a keep/Tower, its imposible alone (at least as a guard) with 2 its hard and takes up to 10min.

Easy solution for this is that NPC Guard see stealthed players and unstealth them.

My eng, mes, and guard all wreck thieves in WvW. Once you understand the thief and how utterly predictable they are they become laughable. They aren’t a top tier 1v1 class and they lack good group support options… but yea totally nerf them more because some low skilled players still get ganked by them… apparently this is totally unacceptable.

Aberrant.6749:

My eng, mes, and guard all wreck thieves in WvW. Once you understand the thief and how utterly predictable they are they become laughable. They aren’t a top tier 1v1 class and they lack good group support options… but yea totally nerf them more because some low skilled players still get ganked by them… apparently this is totally unacceptable.

The problem with majority of comments on this forum and specifically this post when discussing the thieves ability to stealth and do high critical damage, is the fact that most of them are disrespectful and unhelpful to anyone.

So you are telling us that you have no issue with thieves with the above three classes. Great! But I would love to hear some details on how you combat them, some of your counters etc. You don’t have to give your build away, but more of a mere factor of helping others who are having an issue with the thief and disagree with your opinion.

Being crude and “asuming” anyone who has a problem with a thief is “low skilled”. Take into consideration that people are running different variation of builds, weapons, runes, etc.

Also keep in mind players shouldn’t have to play a certain class to combat another class. That’s considered unbalanced.

I will agree that I have heard various Engineers say they have minor/no issues with thieves. I also agree that variousMesmers (which my cousin plays as his main) have minor/no complains against them. I have not had conversations with main guardians in regards to thieves so I have no comment there.

Antara.3189:

The problem with majority of comments on this forum and specifically this post when discussing the thieves ability to stealth and do high critical damage, is the fact that most of them are disrespectful and unhelpful to anyone.

So you are telling us that you have no issue with thieves with the above three classes. Great! But I would love to hear some details on how you combat them, some of your counters etc. You don’t have to give your build away, but more of a mere factor of helping others who are having an issue with the thief and disagree with your opinion.

Being crude and “asuming” anyone who has a problem with a thief is “low skilled”. Take into consideration that people are running different variation of builds, weapons, runes, etc.

Also keep in mind players shouldn’t have to play a certain class to combat another class. That’s considered unbalanced.

I will agree that I have heard various Engineers say they have minor/no issues with thieves. I also agree that variousMesmers (which my cousin plays as his main) have minor/no complains against them. I have not had conversations with main guardians in regards to thieves so I have no comment there.

Dude… there are tons of videos on youtube and info on how to beat a thief in these forums. Playing as a thief for a short while will go a long way to understanding what thieves do. Just think what would I do in this situation as a thief with the tools that your opponent has.

As far as guards I’ve seen vids of guards doing 1v2’s vs thieves who couldn’t take them down. The damage mitigation and healing that a guardian can put out with 100% retal uptime is crazy. Go look up healway or boonway builds. They are pretty easymode.

As far as builds etc… if you’re not built for roaming, but decide to go roam (for whatever reason)… and you get attacked by ANY class that’s built for roaming… you’re toast unless they are really really bad. That’s by design.

You don’t HAVE to play certain classes to combat another… or build to fight a thief or any of that nonesence. You should have ways to mitigate/avoid bursts though… which any class can produce.

BTW… If the OP hadn’t just posted this…

Shadowblade.2103:

Please for the love of god nerf the god kitten perma-stealth build. It is such a pile of crap that I have to use stealth traps to kill a thief anymore. If you won’t nerf the build, then at least give some classes something that cancels out stealth. Im not talking crap AC skills and expensive traps, im talking like an actual skill or two.

I would have been more likely to help him with more detail. That’s the problem with the majority of thief complaint posts. Just nerf thief stealth OP pile of crap bla bla bla not even asking for help. Yet you’re calling my post disrespectful? Ok whatever.

The problem is: Thiefs enter Insisible in the battle, do your 1323kk backstab damage and go away invisible and anyone can do anything.