Guild Wars 2

I recently fought 2 perma stealth thieves in WvW using condi traps with trapper runes and learned that there is a perma stealth trapper build:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/WvW-True-Permastealth-Condi/first#post5407958

It is quite a strong build

it got me wondering…Perma Stealth trap thief vs PU mesmer…who will win?

If the thief will never get out of stealth while the mesmer has the usual tankiness… I say the nearby NPCs.

I fougth a perma stealht thief the other day he had alot of condi pressure, i used my 3 imobs on him..(tryed to), the 2 that hitted him had no effect, i was a complety a ragdoll against that…

i was playing mace/shield – scepter/focus with condi guard.

Of course the PU mesmer. You can already hear it from the actual “PU” part. It’s a metafor (in Daoism) for naturalness. Naturally the mesmer wins. It’s in their nature. Especially since there are sooo many of them and they all can do exactly everything exactly all the time, without even a [Blink].

the mesmer can detect the thief, kinda, just follow clones/phantasm

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

The trapper thief are a pain in the kitten and should NOT be able to constantly apply condition damage while remaining un-seen.

They should become revealed as soon as the condition damage begins to tick.

Condi trapper thief wins every time vs any kind of mesmer build, at least i never had problems against any mesmer i met while running the troll trapper build.(pro tip for sad noob trapper thiefs disable auto attacks so you dont get reveal accidently, using torment venoms vs mesmers instead of caltrops trick and having p/d as offhand instead of short bow does the job faster)
The build is not new in any way or form its just more viable after the 23th june patch since we have trap on heal now that we can cancel the healing part and just drop the trap so confusion+2 spike traps + venom and perma stealth = epic rage whispers.

EremiteAngel.9765:

it got me wondering…Perma Stealth trap thief vs PU mesmer…who will win?

The rest of the community.

Atleast the PU mesmers can be killed.

The perma stealth thiefs are near impossible

Who ever has the least cleanse will die first. You can trait into PU all you want and think you are so OP but if you don’t have cleanse you will end up dead against condi players.

Coldtart.4785:

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

When people reset on me in fair 1vs1 I count those as wins.

briggah.7910:

Coldtart.4785:

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

When people reset on me in fair 1vs1 I count those as wins.

I understood his “reset” as wvw reset on every Friday…^^

Bubi.5237:

briggah.7910:

Coldtart.4785:

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

When people reset on me in fair 1vs1 I count those as wins.

I understood his “reset” as wvw reset on every Friday…^^

haha oh yea that is what he meant it looks lol

A solution to this is make condition dmg deal less dmg when in stealth.

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

Terrahero.9358:

EremiteAngel.9765:

it got me wondering…Perma Stealth trap thief vs PU mesmer…who will win?

The rest of the community.

LOL…..best answer!!!

Fuzzion.2504:

Atleast the PU mesmers can be killed.

The perma stealth thiefs are near impossible

Give me a break, general level of PU mesmer is just zero, trapper thiefs existed before traits changes, and those guys worked on their build hard to make it work uncomparable to mesmers, who became monsters over night just because anet supports untested builds..

Thieves stealth compared to Mesmer is counterable enough though.
I’ve run into one trapper thief, who was just a troll.

If you play D/P, obviously you can get blinded, but they have to leap finish or blast the smoke field to enter stealth, otherwise Refuge is so easy to spot aswell, Mesmers have much more ‘simpler’ access to stealth.

In WvW i kitten hate stealth. Its cool in PvE because mobs dont care and in PvP because they can’t cap, but holy moly is it a killer if you try to roam with a profession that doesn’t have stealth themselves. Honestly we need more revealing traits that are also at least somewhat accessible.
Also think about searching for mesmers with all their ridiculous stealth they have now. Its already hell to deal with in our small keeps now think about the new BIG keeps we will be getting in the new borderlands. …. shuders

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

Uhh… You’d be VERY surprised at how much damage Ghost Thieves can do. They’re in NO way useless. You can zerg dive and totally screw over sieges of 20+ Players single handedly. If not, you delay them until your zerg can bomb them. You can even wipe entire small-scale groups from capping towers.

Now, if you bump the number of Ghosts to two or even three; It’s game over for anyone or group you come in contact with. If you’ve got Teamspeak or something, coordinating a condition bomb on someone almost insta-kills them, identify the commander or group leader and single him out. 15 Stacks of Confusion = RIP.

You can’t knock the build, unless you see it from everyone’s point of view, not just yours. Just because you can deal with it, doesn’t mean everyone else can. My favourite experience is when me and my roaming partner zerg-dived a blob stacking might before they clashed with our blob. Reaper of Grenth hits 10 targets with Chill and Poison. Caltrop field Cripples everyone. The Traps can hit 3 people, ect. The list goes on. It really kittened them over.

The build is fun to play, hilarious to watch. I can’t count the number of times I’ve being whispered with either a rage comment + an instant block or someone accusing me of Hacking.

Here’s a video of a ‘confident’ Shout Guardian getting killed by my Ghost Thief

Stealth as it is now is the Death of Roaming, Stealth need a Cooldown of 5 Seconds or so. or we need more revealing/detection Skills.

I liked in Lotro the Ranger stealth detection this is needed in GW2

meepeY.2867:

The build is fun to play, hilarious to watch. I can’t count the number of times I’ve being whispered with either a rage comment + an instant block or someone accusing me of Hacking.

A pretentious troll is indeed hilarious to watch. Iggy deserves better.

Aeolus.3615:

i was playing mace/shield – scepter/focus with condi guard.

Well, there’s your problem right there.

meepeY.2867:

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

Uhh… You’d be VERY surprised at how much damage Ghost Thieves can do. They’re in NO way useless. You can zerg dive and totally screw over sieges of 20+ Players single handedly. If not, you delay them until your zerg can bomb them. You can even wipe entire small-scale groups from capping towers.

Now, if you bump the number of Ghosts to two or even three; It’s game over for anyone or group you come in contact with. If you’ve got Teamspeak or something, coordinating a condition bomb on someone almost insta-kills them, identify the commander or group leader and single him out. 15 Stacks of Confusion = RIP.

You can’t knock the build, unless you see it from everyone’s point of view, not just yours. Just because you can deal with it, doesn’t mean everyone else can. My favourite experience is when me and my roaming partner zerg-dived a blob stacking might before they clashed with our blob. Reaper of Grenth hits 10 targets with Chill and Poison. Caltrop field Cripples everyone. The Traps can hit 3 people, ect. The list goes on. It really kittened them over.

The build is fun to play, hilarious to watch. I can’t count the number of times I’ve being whispered with either a rage comment + an instant block or someone accusing me of Hacking.

Here’s a video of a ‘confident’ Shout Guardian getting killed by my Ghost Thief

no. that thief goes visible for a long period and that guardian was doing nothing.
if a ghost thief run into a zerg 2 things can happen:
1. zerg ignore him and goes on
2. aoe spam = thief dead.

the only purpose of perma stealth is trolling

meepeY.2867:

Here’s a video of a ‘confident’ Shout Guardian getting killed by my Ghost Thief

More like he knew you were a condi thief and decided to dance instead of fight you.

LetoII.3782:

Aeolus.3615:

i was playing mace/shield – scepter/focus with condi guard.

Well, there’s your problem right there.

Very true, i usually use hammer for the ring, but i doubt i could even trap him, since it is a range “blinker”, i dont know if he was using packet editors, but one thing i noticed for shure, that build avoids (at least that player) was invisible most of the time, like avoiding the thief stealth Revealed when he atacked en entered in stealth at the sime second.

hammer or gs would not matter in that case, i didn even had time to put WoR in place.

(edit) almost forgot that Anet want us to play medi guards atm…

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

yesterday i had a lot fun farming this charr ranger from [BT] on my trapper-stealth-build xD

atti.1097:

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

yesterday i had a lot fun farming this charr ranger from [BT] on my trapper-stealth-build xD

this sounds wrong

Aeolus.3615:

LetoII.3782:

Aeolus.3615:

i was playing mace/shield – scepter/focus with condi guard.

Well, there’s your problem right there.

Very true, i usually use hammer for the ring, but i doubt i could even trap him, since it is a range “blinker”, i dont know if he was using packet editors, but one thing i noticed for shure, that build avoids (at least that player) was invisible most of the time, like avoiding the thief stealth Revealed when he atacked en entered in stealth at the sime second.

hammer or gs would not matter in that case, i didn even had time to put WoR in place.

(edit) almost forgot that Anet want us to play medi guards atm…

…Why would you use slow striking weapons and no torch on a condi guard? O.o
Focus and hammer really belong on power builds.

atti.1097:

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

yesterday i had a lot fun farming this charr ranger from [BT] on my trapper-stealth-build xD

it’s strange because he doesn’t remember to have been farmed by a trapper thief… maybe trolled, but not farmed.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Thieves stealth compared to Mesmer is counterable enough though.
I’ve run into one trapper thief, who was just a troll.

If you play D/P, obviously you can get blinded, but they have to leap finish or blast the smoke field to enter stealth, otherwise Refuge is so easy to spot aswell, Mesmers have much more ‘simpler’ access to stealth.

Lolwat?

Mesmer may be “simpler” because all its stealth come from button presses, but a thief has faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more control over stealth.

As late as yesterday I ended up in a “duel” with some thief (hammer of inquisition or whatever the guild was) with my MM necro and he literally popped up, hit me a couple times and was gone in a second. 5-10 secs later he repeated it. Repeat that for about 3 freakin minutes or so. The few moments he was visible I could hurt him at least a little, but of course most of the time he came back healed. As soon as I got him down a fair bit in health, he just doubled his time in stealth. Wasnt even a stealth trap build.

Even a full PU stealth Mesmer is nowhere near this. When all their stealth is on cd, its on cd period. At least you get openings.

But on the upside, the thief was one of the few that didnt run away from me as soon as they saw an enemy approaching. Oh the irony.

Dawdler.8521:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Thieves stealth compared to Mesmer is counterable enough though.
I’ve run into one trapper thief, who was just a troll.

If you play D/P, obviously you can get blinded, but they have to leap finish or blast the smoke field to enter stealth, otherwise Refuge is so easy to spot aswell, Mesmers have much more ‘simpler’ access to stealth.

Lolwat?

Mesmer may be “simpler” because all its stealth come from button presses, but a thief has faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more control over stealth.

As late as yesterday I ended up in a “duel” with some thief (hammer of inquisition or whatever the guild was) with my MM necro and he literally popped up, hit me a couple times and was gone in a second. 5-10 secs later he repeated it. Repeat that for about 3 freakin minutes or so. The few moments he was visible I could hurt him at least a little, but of course most of the time he came back healed. As soon as I got him down a fair bit in health, he just doubled his time in stealth. Wasnt even a stealth trap build.

Even a full PU stealth Mesmer is nowhere near this. When all their stealth is on cd, its on cd period. At least you get openings.

But on the upside, the thief was one of the few that didnt run away from me as soon as they saw an enemy approaching. Oh the irony.

You know, an immobilize would have gave you victory.

Daendur.2357:

You know, an immobilize would have gave you victory.

You know, I tried that on every cooldown as soon as I either saw him approach or about to disengage (when he was on me it was pretty much impossible, he wasnt exactly mindless with the way he attacked). Good luck getting it in when it take about as long to cast as he is visible between stealth (and that’s ignoring any evasion). I may be a little dumb – after all I always roam on my necromancer vs 90% theives, rangers and mesmers – but I’m not a complete idiot. If I was I would have lasted 5 seconds against him.

Daendur.2357:

Dawdler.8521:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Thieves stealth compared to Mesmer is counterable enough though.
I’ve run into one trapper thief, who was just a troll.

If you play D/P, obviously you can get blinded, but they have to leap finish or blast the smoke field to enter stealth, otherwise Refuge is so easy to spot aswell, Mesmers have much more ‘simpler’ access to stealth.

Lolwat?

Mesmer may be “simpler” because all its stealth come from button presses, but a thief has faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more control over stealth.

As late as yesterday I ended up in a “duel” with some thief (hammer of inquisition or whatever the guild was) with my MM necro and he literally popped up, hit me a couple times and was gone in a second. 5-10 secs later he repeated it. Repeat that for about 3 freakin minutes or so. The few moments he was visible I could hurt him at least a little, but of course most of the time he came back healed. As soon as I got him down a fair bit in health, he just doubled his time in stealth. Wasnt even a stealth trap build.

Even a full PU stealth Mesmer is nowhere near this. When all their stealth is on cd, its on cd period. At least you get openings.

But on the upside, the thief was one of the few that didnt run away from me as soon as they saw an enemy approaching. Oh the irony.

You know, an immobilize would have gave you victory.

Or you know, swapping to a viable build. When I see a mm necro in wvw I time myself to see how long they last. Very rarely goes for longer than 20-30 seconds so I’m not surprised he didn’t run.
Note: I also run a necro.

Here is the recipe:

1. take an engi

2. take a refile

3. wear some googles (so the blood will not blind you)

4. shoot them a load of iron in their butt

Tobias Steele.2071:

Or you know, swapping to a viable build. When I see a mm necro in wvw I time myself to see how long they last. Very rarely goes for longer than 20-30 seconds so I’m not surprised he didn’t run.
Note: I also run a necro.

“Viable” is relative. I can duel most roamers I meet and often go 1v2 (I have gone 1v3 in a T2 camp and still lasted a minute lol). Its a safe and very fast way to cap camps without using wells (which arent so good in duels). Compared to roamer classes, other necros is the worst kind of enemy I meet due to heavy AoE (I mean who doesnt have the staff?). I have better luck killing thieves.

Either way, it doesnt change the fact that thief stealth beat out mesmer stealth by far.

skill failure on mesmers is terrible… plus there are cool downs activated when you come out of stealth under certain conditions… I’ve lost a few fights by accidently killing an ambient rabbit that has triggered stealth cool down without realising it before trying to cloak again and thus putting another stealth skill in cool down.

Today, I lost an easy fight with a warrior twice because stealth failed completely to work.

Mesmer > DP thief
DD thief > Mesmer

(from my experience anyway)

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

skill failure on mesmers is terrible… plus there are cool downs activated when you come out of stealth under certain conditions… I’ve lost a few fights by accidently killing an ambient rabbit that has triggered stealth cool down without realising it before trying to cloak again and thus putting another stealth skill in cool down.

Today, I lost an easy fight with a warrior twice because stealth failed completely to work.

If you deal direct dmg to something while in stealth, you get the revealed debuff, which prevents stealth for few seconds. Additionally revealed can be applied by certains skills (ranger, engi) and a trap.

If you try to stealth while being revealed, it is player failure, not skill failure.

Dawdler.8521:

Tobias Steele.2071:

Or you know, swapping to a viable build. When I see a mm necro in wvw I time myself to see how long they last. Very rarely goes for longer than 20-30 seconds so I’m not surprised he didn’t run.
Note: I also run a necro.

“Viable” is relative. I can duel most roamers I meet and often go 1v2 (I have gone 1v3 in a T2 camp and still lasted a minute lol). Its a safe and very fast way to cap camps without using wells (which arent so good in duels). Compared to roamer classes, other necros is the worst kind of enemy I meet due to heavy AoE (I mean who doesnt have the staff?). I have better luck killing thieves.

Either way, it doesnt change the fact that thief stealth beat out mesmer stealth by far.

I don’t think that poster realizes mm necro is one of the better build options necros have at solo roaming. At least for now until Reaper’s released. Yes it’s that sad for the state of necros. There’s a reason why most roaming gankers are thieves, mesmers, and dd eles.

This whole necros having 2nd hp bar bs is just rubbish as we all know it’s near impossible to gain lifeforce against thieves that you barely can see for a second. With mesmers at least you have a chance, although you get hurt more, but you get to see them when they pop out to do their burst rotation. Cancer condi thieves just load you up while stay hidden most of the fight. Oh and before anybody says plague sending, in order for plague sending to work, you need to be able to hit and crit the target.

There’s way too much stealth in this game, not sure what Anet was thinking when they gifted more stealth during trait revamp patch.

This thread is disgusting. These builds are disgusting. #MakeZerkerCoolAgain

Gorisek.2678:

Fuzzion.2504:

Atleast the PU mesmers can be killed.

The perma stealth thiefs are near impossible

Give me a break, general level of PU mesmer is just zero, trapper thiefs existed before traits changes, and those guys worked on their build hard to make it work uncomparable to mesmers, who became monsters over night just because anet supports untested builds..

Are you joking? I had an extra set of trapper runes from some ranger gear I salvaged and I threw together a build in about 5 minutes. It is brain dead easy and unkillable unless an engi gets a lucky hit in to reveal you.

Both PU mes and condi trap thief take 0 skill to play. The only reason WvW isn’t completely overrun with them is because they aren’t effective against larger groups and in 1v1’s you can just walk away from them.

Coldtart.4785:

You really think either of those builds could kill the other before reset?

I think this is the best reply I have ever read.

kenahs.8397:

This thread is disgusting. These builds are disgusting. #MakeZerkerCoolAgain

+1 for you friend.