Guild Wars 2

These runes are overpowered on nearly every class but it will probably be engineers who gets nerfed anyway

naboac.5876:

These runes are overpowered on nearly every class but it will probably be engineers who gets nerfed anyway

Lolyup. We have been nerfed patch-after-patch for the last year. Odds are the profession will get nerfed before the rune set does.

That’s OK though, between Defiant, Stability, and the incoming conditions nerf (because Warriors can’t be bothered to equip some condition cleanse) there won’t be much point in running an Engineer main soon. Good thing I rolled a Guardian.

misha.3216:

Nikkinella.8254:

The rune is overpowered on ANY class if you stack up condition damage. Just autoattacking with my sword on warrior stacks up a ton of confusion. Get even more if I actually bother interrupting them. It’s definitely got to be bugged. there’s no way they intended them to be this powerful. ALL runes that have some sort of proc on then have an ICD. Perplexity does not. And you people don’t see anything wrong with that? You KNOW it’s a mistake, stop denying it. It needs a cooldown just like every single other rune in the game that has a proc on it.

so, like you said in another threat, unkillable tank war for you is a skill, but not a bug. And this runes – bug. huh

They are the only rune set with a proc that doesn’t have an ICD, so yes it is obviously a bug or some sort of oversight on their part. Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure that out. And turning a class into an unkillable tank is just by coming up with an intelligent build that no one else thought of since people don’t know how to take advantage of a class’s natural strengths and instead rely on cookie cutter fotm builds that people post on forums. I don’t see how one has to do with the other.

Nikkinella.8254:

misha.3216:

Nikkinella.8254:

The rune is overpowered on ANY class if you stack up condition damage. Just autoattacking with my sword on warrior stacks up a ton of confusion. Get even more if I actually bother interrupting them. It’s definitely got to be bugged. there’s no way they intended them to be this powerful. ALL runes that have some sort of proc on then have an ICD. Perplexity does not. And you people don’t see anything wrong with that? You KNOW it’s a mistake, stop denying it. It needs a cooldown just like every single other rune in the game that has a proc on it.

so, like you said in another threat, unkillable tank war for you is a skill, but not a bug. And this runes – bug. huh

They are the only rune set with a proc that doesn’t have an ICD, so yes it is obviously a bug or some sort of oversight on their part. Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure that out. And turning a class into an unkillable tank is just by coming up with an intelligent build that no one else thought of since people don’t know how to take advantage of a class’s natural strengths and instead rely on cookie cutter fotm builds that people post on forums. I don’t see how one has to do with the other.

If only you had some condition cleanse in it, though, maybe you wouldn’t be so upset about these runes on what, less than 5% of the wvw population?

I have plenty of condition cleanse. I shrug off the confusion anyway. It doesn’t affect my warrior at all. In fact I use the runes on one of my warrior builds. It is extremely OP. you should see how fast I drop people. Its easy to base an entire build around those runes.

Nikkinella.8254:

I have plenty of condition cleanse. I shrug off the confusion anyway. It doesn’t affect my warrior at all. In fact I use the runes on one of my warrior builds. It is extremely OP. you should see how fast I drop people. Its easy to base an entire build around those runes.

The perpetual stun warrior build in general is OP. Period. How is it one profession has access to the longest CC in the game, and also has access to that much stability, all on heavy armor (and highest hp)? The runes are just the icing on the cake for that build.

Even with an ICD, people will still be complaining about Engineers that use the set, simply because we have other confusion skills to make stacks of 10 somewhat easy to accomplish on unwary opponents.

But this isn’t an Engineer problem, Engies run these runes because they are the only option for good runes in a condition build for a profession with reasonable access to CC.

lunyboy.8672:

If only you had some condition cleanse in it, though, maybe you wouldn’t be so upset about these runes on what, less than 5% of the wvw population?

Why do people keep repeating this same tired garbage. The runes allow you to stack confusion far more then can be cleansed because of the lack of ICD, thus the need for ICD.

Nikkinella.8254:

^Don’t know why you’re wasting your time explaining that to him. He admitted to just being a scrub zergling who runs back to the safety of the swarm since he can’t 1 vs 1. NOTHING is a problem if you simply outnumber your opponent, you can run around naked and drop aoes and still get kills.

So mindless zerglings, please hush up. You get no say in the matter here, your opinion doesn’t count. The runes ARE a problem in smaller groups where skill actually does matter and you can’t just spam 1 and see bodies pop up.

I play with my guild not the zerg but whatever (cant expect people like the above to use his/her brain before a post),. Stop clogging up the wvw forums with pointless threads about runes that have no effect on normal wvw mechanics and that wvw devs cant even fix anyway.

The upcoming league system making stacked servers with mapzerg blobs fighting low pop servers like mine is a much more pressing issue.

bradderzh.2378:

How many of these threads are there going to be. Worry about the upcoming league system that is going to ruin wvw for 7 weeks not some silly runes that do absolutely nothing in normal wvw play (nobody cares about your small gank squads picking on lowbie upscaleds).

Not once have I been in a stituation where these runes were an issue. The only time I had been caught out was against a perplexity headshot thief on my s/d ele (aka EVERYTHING interruptible) and what did he do? Apply lots of confusion which did nothing to stop me regrouping with my guild mates.

Sure I wouldn’t be able to kill him, but who cares? Killing some useless thief does nothing for my server. Same as killing some useless warrior or engi with these runes. Learn how confusion works and you will rarely get taken out by it.

Stop posting issues about runes classes and skills in the wvw forums. There are much more scary issues with wvw than this stuff. The wvw devs can’t even do anything g to change your issues anyway so put them somewhere where a dev can look at them.

these forums really need a downvote option so we can bury nonsense like this.

Likewise…

Wvw forum for wvw problems. Take rune/armor/sigil complaints to another forum category.

Tyaen.5148:

Dodge, block, condition cleanse, lemon grass, melandru, etc, etc, etc,…

Dodge and block an interrupt, which is being fired when you’re actively using a skill?

Back to gameplay 101 school for you.

bradderzh.2378:

Nikkinella.8254:

^Don’t know why you’re wasting your time explaining that to him. He admitted to just being a scrub zergling who runs back to the safety of the swarm since he can’t 1 vs 1. NOTHING is a problem if you simply outnumber your opponent, you can run around naked and drop aoes and still get kills.

So mindless zerglings, please hush up. You get no say in the matter here, your opinion doesn’t count. The runes ARE a problem in smaller groups where skill actually does matter and you can’t just spam 1 and see bodies pop up.

I play with my guild not the zerg but whatever (cant expect people like the above to use his/her brain before a post),. Stop clogging up the wvw forums with pointless threads about runes that have no effect on normal wvw mechanics and that wvw devs cant even fix anyway.

The upcoming league system making stacked servers with mapzerg blobs fighting low pop servers like mine is a much more pressing issue.

WvW dev’s have no control over something in WvW? Seems legit.

The point was your solution was basically just to run run run away to friends and outnumber (3x run since so many people love to try to run after getting hit once in WvW normally anyways). That’s not a good solution to this problem. It being a zerg or just a guild group is besides the point. I guess people were being too vague for you though.

Population/coverage is a problem, but this is one too. There is no reason to ignore one for the other.

Please stop clogging up the forums with pointless posts telling people to just run away to a group and then complain about blobs in the same thread (oh the irony).

-_- Seriously?

I never said that running away and zerging people is a solution. I just posed the instance to be a why bother… What did that thief do for his server? What does any groupbating roamers do for their server? Why would I want to stop to fight this guy when my guild is trying to defend a tower…

What I am trying to get at is the only time these runes become an issue is when people try to do things that dont really serve a purpose in wvw. Now you play the game however you want, but complaining in a wvw forum about your issues with perplexity 1v1 1v2 etc is like complaining about 6k (on 3k armor) backstab thieves, or like stunfordayz runfordayz warriors, or any other 1v1 meta. These builds, however strong in 1v1, are good only for distracting people who are otherwise trying to defend/capture points, which doesn’t mean a whole lot to wvw as a whole and that there are arguably more pressing issues with this new league system to worry about.

And yeah, go speak to devon about runes and I am pretty sure he will say its not an area the wvw team works on.

A lot of us don’t really give a crap about capturing towers or getting points. We play WvW to roam and fight other guilds. And in small battles like that, the runes ARE a problem.

bradderzh.2378:

-_- Seriously?

I never said that running away and zerging people is a solution. I just posed the instance to be a why bother… What did that thief do for his server? What does any groupbating roamers do for their server? Why would I want to stop to fight this guy when my guild is trying to defend a tower…

What I am trying to get at is the only time these runes become an issue is when people try to do things that dont really serve a purpose in wvw. Now you play the game however you want, but complaining in a wvw forum about your issues with perplexity 1v1 1v2 etc is like complaining about 6k (on 3k armor) backstab thieves, or like stunfordayz runfordayz warriors, or any other 1v1 meta. These builds, however strong in 1v1, are good only for distracting people who are otherwise trying to defend/capture points, which doesn’t mean a whole lot to wvw as a whole and that there are arguably more pressing issues with this new league system to worry about.

And yeah, go speak to devon about runes and I am pretty sure he will say its not an area the wvw team works on.

@ the bold…

bradderzh.2378:

Apply lots of confusion which did nothing to stop me regrouping with my guild mates.

This means run away and rejoin the bigger group. Dress it up and play semantics all you want with it, but that’s what it boils down to.

With the new bloodlust areas small teams will be very valuable. These runes are still too strong in 5v5’s. They only get less noticeable when you get to larger groups.

Small groups are useful now as well btw… for doing things like flipping camps, slapping yaks, contesting tagging towers, supply trapping zergs, etc etc. Some times you come across another small group and you don’t want to waste time wp-ing back. Some times I fight some one while solo capping a camp (you don’t need 20+ people to go cap a camp, it’s a waste of players). Small team/item balance is important at these times.

It’s not just zerglings that can have a large impact on WvW despite what the zerglings say. It does take a lot more skill to do well with a small group and make an impact though.

Thanks for basically confirming (again) that you’re just a large group player. Just because it doesn’t do as much to your style of large group play doesn’t mean that balancing smaller groups isn’t important and just shouldn’t be brought up at all. That’s very immature and poor reasoning.

I’m sure if I asked him about item balance in WvW it would fall under part of his job. Just look at all the PvE consumables that were removed from WvW for balance reasons.

ukuni.8745:

Lolololo I love that people are still talking about this rune and still trying to defend it, IT’S OVERPOWERED that is clear, infact someone tell me what other rune is better for a condition build please.

1 has nothing to do with the other. lololol terrible argument. Your logic means that because I can generate 1 or 2 boons on my own if I stack 2 traveler, 2 monk, 2 water its OP.

Why is this not adressed yet ? Every engi runs this build in WvW with a regen warrior buddy trolling towers and small grps , it’s pretty sad actually. No wonder these runes didnt make it to PvP they are broken.

THey need serious tweaking , make it happen guys.

ICD should have been hotpatched into the client WEEKS ago. this is ridiculous. this company has like no QA.

Having a regular cycle of things that become OP and eventually get nerfed is good for gem sales as people retool and regear. The longer they let things like this slide the more revenue can be gained out of it in the longterm.

Of course, I’m probably just being extremely cynical here and its really just a case of incompetence. :-D

The 30% Confusion Duration is bugged and doesnt apply.

Fix Please.

Arenanet had a problem with his “basic & simple” condition apply and re-apply system from the beginning (no resilience, reapply time, amount limit, damage reduction, only one stats needed… is just black or withe, remove or not, cancel all or die by them). People realize that when this meta begun and you can spam and reapply it freely.

What they do about it? Released rune of perplexity and dire gear (condition/thougness/vitality).

Best solution ever. Now condition is just broken as hell. You deal with tanky condition bunker with a lot of confusion stacks spam.

Not expect any logic nerf to it soon.

What should be done:

10 second cool down on 6/6 Or Replace with 25% Damage Increase

AND

Remove and replace the warrior Trait that gives 6 stacks of Confusion on Interrupt

IT really is kind of nasty, first time running into one today Warrior did pitiful damage, but the confusion runes made up for it. Got 20 stacks on me one time. Zerker stance is on a 1m CD, and burst skills 7-10s CD, and even then if you miss your burst skill, no cleanse for you, and your stuck running around for the next 20s because you might kill yourself from 2k procs. What is this?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What should be done:

10 second cool down on 6/6 Or Replace with 25% Damage Increase

AND

Remove and replace the warrior Trait that gives 6 stacks of Confusion on Interrupt

Replace with? This is WvW only trait? not sure if serious.

I haven’t really had much problem with it- my biggest problem at the moment is mesmers spitting out phantasms like there is no tomorrow and doing huge damage with their skills whilst keeping up with my perma speedy toon then wiping me while taking very little damage themselves, etc. It’s taking me a while to adjust.

The bigger problems for me are warriors, who can spam it on you like there is no tomorrow, perma stun, and staff waving guardians in zergs.

For solo play it’s time some people here learned what non-thiefs learned a long time ago- if you are not built for solo play, or if you run into certain builds, then it’s time to run away. You can’t build a build that will beat everything all the time – especially when most fights aren’t scheduled so half the time you will have the wrong weapon set on to beat that other player’s build.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What should be done:

10 second cool down on 6/6 Or Replace with 25% Damage Increase

AND

Remove and replace the warrior Trait that gives 6 stacks of Confusion on Interrupt

dont knoww what you are talking about but warrior trait only gives 4 stacks on interrrupt… and 10 sec cd on 6/6 runes wont be enough must be at least 45 sec

Tsezar.6950:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What should be done:

10 second cool down on 6/6 Or Replace with 25% Damage Increase

AND

Remove and replace the warrior Trait that gives 6 stacks of Confusion on Interrupt

dont knoww what you are talking about but warrior trait only gives 4 stacks on interrrupt… and 10 sec cd on 6/6 runes wont be enough must be at least 45 sec

yeah its 4 stacks per interrupt, but i agree with armagedon ash. 6/6 has to be changed either a 15 sec icd or replace ther interruption part with 25% confusion dmg. interrupt are already strong as they are, adding 5 stacks of confusion to it makes them completely broken. these runes are supposed to be a support for confusion classes, not interrupt classes!

15 sec cd wouldnt make any difference as i said it needs at least 45 seconds

Tsezar.6950:

15 sec cd wouldnt make any difference as i said it needs at least 45 seconds

yeah u are right all other runes that give u access to another classes skill or condition, has a very big icd. but honestly i would change the 6/6 to confusion dmg increase and not buff interrupts at all with it. being interrupted is already punishing enough, so if u cant use any skill after being interrupted is too much and sry anet, but this 6/6 part of the rune is a complete design balance failure!

selan.8354:

Tsezar.6950:

15 sec cd wouldnt make any difference as i said it needs at least 45 seconds

being interrupted is already punishing enough-"

On a heal it might be harsh when around 25% health, but for most part a blind or block is worse than an interrupt, unless you are using one of the elusive channeling spells. If someone interrupts my magnet pull i can have it up again in 5 seconds, if i get blinded it will go on its full cool down. And interrupts are usually harder to “interrupt” with than blinds.

I say this rune is silly, but don’t go all bezerk on it yet, giving a 15 sec icd and decreasing the base duration to 5 sec will go far for the 6th bonus. As for the proc one, tone it down to match the active component. Interrupting can usually be countered in different ways depending on the class you play and the class of the enemy, but simply procing on attacks is silly. Ive never been a fan of “kitten ed if i do kitten ed if i don’t” mechanics (yes torment conceptually is silly as well).

But most of all- for retal and confusion have a 1 sec internal cooldown!.

A backstabber goes rather free of retaliation, but a flamethrower engi? Does he deserve over 5-15X the punishment (outside of for being stupid)? Both retaliation and confusion are balanced in certain situations, but if i have to switch between kits to remove my conditions i take a LOT of extra damage. As goes for procs triggering confusion. They need to normalize it, and then they can reevaluate it and balance the damage up or down or whatever is needed.

As it stands right now these runes are over the top. Some tweaking is needed but i like the idea of the runes in general.

But a bunch of key mashing melee trainers with perma retaliation is ok?

You don’t really notice it if you play warrior, guardian or necro, as they regen hp/don’t get affected by it much, but try playing ranger or engineer and you will discover the delights of killing yourself BEFORE the melee train even reaches you, at which point they tap you on the shoulder and you fall over. Confusion isn’t much of an issue here- you already kill yourself if you attack, confusion just makes it even more suicidal.

It’s almost as if ANet just wants us to all ball up and run guardian staff and warrior stun trains…

I dueled a few perplexity engis/warriors/mesmers recently on multiple classes using my raid build (not 1v1 focused) and I must say they are tedious to fight but nothing more. I had no problems winning against them, just had to kite for skills more and fights tool longer. The way I see it is confusion is just a passive defence that punishes you for not being cautious.

DanyK.3842:

I dueled a few perplexity engis/warriors/mesmers recently on multiple classes using my raid build (not 1v1 focused) and I must say they are tedious to fight but nothing more. I had no problems winning against them, just had to kite for skills more and fights took longer. The way I see it is confusion is just a passive defence that punishes you for not being cautious.

Even if you are able to cleanse yourself of these confusion stacks there are builds out there that let them stack 20+ stacks on you every 10 seconds. There is absolutely no way you can keep up with it.

I think the “its no big deal” people must either be in love with the runeset or mostly play in zergs where their CC is handled for them.

Victory.2879:

But a bunch of key mashing melee trainers with perma retaliation is ok?

This is way too narrow and off topic as it only effects a player who is attacking multiple opponents and spamming AoEs (which is retaliation’s main point because it is a minor irritant in solo/skirmish play). Perplexity is hitting every tier of WvW including solo, skirmish and zerging (although zerging is least effected).

Gully.7358:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauWil91bug

Just a little clip to show how easy it is to apply confusion on a target while using the perplexity runes.

Please! Cap condition duration, stop putting all conditions on 1 ability, remove the AoE limit and add a cooldown to the perplexity runes. These changes would make me a much happier person…

Ummmm, that vid looked like a guardian doing 15K burst in a split sec. I don’t know what u were trying to convey but the least of my worries is a condi war when there are guards that can burst like that.

Alkaholic.3875:

Gully.7358:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauWil91bug

Just a little clip to show how easy it is to apply confusion on a target while using the perplexity runes.

Please! Cap condition duration, stop putting all conditions on 1 ability, remove the AoE limit and add a cooldown to the perplexity runes. These changes would make me a much happier person…

Ummmm, that vid looked like a guardian doing 15K burst in a split sec. I don’t know what u were trying to convey but the least of my worries is a condi war when there are guards that can burst like that.

That guardian was full glass. Anyone can do that with full zerkers gear and glass traits.

absurd stacks from confusion from eles….ew

Little bit offtopic, but I think the most important question about Perplexity is:

Did the devs actually think these runes are fine before they put em in game, or did they intend a cooldown on the 6th bonus and it’s just bugged atm. Because that tells a lot about the people who made these things.

Gully.7358:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauWil91bug

Just a little clip to show how easy it is to apply confusion on a target while using the perplexity runes.

Please! Cap condition duration, stop putting all conditions on 1 ability, remove the AoE limit and add a cooldown to the perplexity runes. These changes would make me a much happier person…

Are you doing that a lot 2-1? Or was it just to prove a point or something.

Noss.4105:

Did the devs actually think these runes are fine before they put em in game, or did they intend a cooldown on the 6th bonus and it’s just bugged atm. Because that tells a lot about the people who made these things.

Many changes get munchkin’d in ways devs don’t think about. The problem lies with keeping them in the game for a prolonged period of time. IMO these should have gotten an ICD quickly… it shouldn’t take this long to tone them down a bit.

I’m kind of annoyed that an engineer is better at confusion than a mesmer.

Engineers were already better at single target confusion than mesmers even before this rune came out. Pistol, toolkit, and bombs already allowed heavy stacks of confusion. This rune turned shield, and FT into an aoe confusion applier as well. On mesmer, it turned GS, focus, pistol, offhand sword, and staff into confusion appliers. I’d say mesmers made out pretty well w/this rune.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Tyaen.5148:

Dodge, block, condition cleanse, lemon grass, melandru, etc, etc, etc,…

Dodge and block an interrupt, which is being fired when you’re actively using a skill?

Back to gameplay 101 school for you.

This is off the top of my head, but Engi’s have one unblockable AoE interrupt. It can still be dodged. If you actually watch what your opponent is doing you can bock and dodge the attempts at interrupt.

I’m positive it’s not not me that needs to go to game play school.

These runes wouldn’t be much of a problem if you couldn’t also spam all other condis as well (like on engineer).

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m kind of annoyed that an engineer is better at confusion than a mesmer.

This.

Mesmers who are supposed to be ‘THE’ confusion class meanwhile other classes are running around with these runes and doing way more confusion. These runes are good for a Mesmer but OP on engineers and some other classes.

Xavi.6591:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I’m kind of annoyed that an engineer is better at confusion than a mesmer.

This.

Mesmers who are supposed to be ‘THE’ confusion class meanwhile other classes are running around with these runes and doing way more confusion. These runes are good for a Mesmer but OP on engineers and some other classes.

Especially frustrating is the fact that I have to trait very specifically AND have these runes AND give up certain things in order to make “just ok” use of this one condition.

Do engineers have to do that?

Engineers have access to all kinds of confusion sources. With or without the runes.

It’s all in the interrupts.