Yes, this is a QQ thread so continue at your own discretion.
Confusion is incredibly powerful. I’d argue it to be second only to burning in terms of lethality. And some professions are able to get so much confusion out of the runes it’s almost pointless to retaliate because you’ll end up killing yourself. It’s like fighting two people at once but one of those people is you.
I’m not saying remove Perplexity, I’m not saying remove Confusion, but I am saying one or the other needs a nerf because it seems like no matter what I do to avoid it, cleanse it or tank it I cannot survive against someone who can apply 5 – 10 stacks in less than 3seconds. If you would like to call this an L2P issue by all means, but I challenge you to fight a Condition Perplexity Thief or Mesmer and tell me the damage you take isn’t a little ridiculous.
I can defend myself very well and against anything but a perplexity build I usually have about as good a chance at winning as they do. But when I start getting those confusion stacks I may as well throw in the towel because if I retaliate I kill myself and if I don’t they kill me…
I don’t really think runes of perplexity are a big deal… The real problem is when you add runes of perplexity to all the other buffs to condis like the +40% duration food, capability of being super tanky while just being able to spam conditions, and cleansing not being able to compete with aplication, etc…
The bonuses from perplexity have 25s (bonus 4) and 15s (bonus 6) of cooldown, which mean it’s not constant application as it used to be when the runes came out (Thieves spamming headshot and putting 25 confusion stacks was awesome)
I personally find Runes of Torment much more powerful than Perplexity as standing still is almost a sure death in this game. But still, the problem doesn’t lie on the runes but on the conditions mechanic itself.
TBH confusion should have just had duration stacking (and of course, buffed damage). The amount of stacks certain builds can make very fast is quite insane. This is the solution for most condition issues – in PvP/WvW they should all just stack duration. But I digress.
Its not really a L2P issue, no. Its a bring-more/better-cleansing issue. Last time I was roaming and tried to fight a 3 man group with a perplexity Engineer in it, I had to replace null field with the cleansing mantra on my Mesmer. Null field simply didnt help, too long cooldown and too unreliable. Second attempt with the mantra went considerably better, except they just ressed anyone downed
Perplexity rune builds are pretty much a hard counter for several builds. Dodging (if traited), engineer equipping a kit etc. will trigger confusion. Thus confusion severely punishes active combat. If you don’t yourself run with -40% condition duration food (lemongrass) and carry lots of condition removal, your best option is to run away when those 8+ confusion stacks hit you. Staying in combat = death.
The rune set is simply badly designed and requires a rework. Here is my suggestion:
4th rune should be reworked:
60% chance to inflict 2 stacks of confusion for 3 seconds with critical hit, cooldown 25 seconds (currently there is 25% chance from just being hit by enemy. This is too passive and doesn’t promote active play)
6th rune slightly adjusted:
when you interrupt a foe cause 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds (cooldown 20 s)
This would limit stacks of confusion from the rune set to 5. No rune set should be the best source of any condition.
Deniara / Ayna – I want the original WvWvW maps back – Desolation [EU]
No rune set should be the best source of any condition.
Best argument I’ve heard in all Perplexity Runes Discussions.
I think the idea of Perplexity runes was actually to give classes other than Engi and Mesmer (and at some extend warriors) a source of confusion to compete with them. The problem is that these two classes can get even more benefit from them than the other classes.
I think the idea of Perplexity runes was actually to give classes other than Engi and Mesmer (and at some extend warriors) a source of confusion to compete with them. The problem is that these two classes can get even more benefit from them than the other classes.
Exactly, making runes a viable source of conditions for a class/build that otherwise has few (cough Guardians cough) is a terribad idea. It only benefits condi builds.
Still, I think perplexity could be somewhat balanced. The main problem with Perplexity runes is that the confusion lasts fooooorrreeevvverrr. Seriously. The 5 stacks on interrupt lasts 8 seconds base. It’s completely trivial to increase that duration by 70% (Perplexity runes and +40% food alone will do that) in WvW. If your condi-clear is on cool down and you get 13-16 seconds of 5x confusion on you, you’re as good as dead. Since it’s builds that spam conditions who use Perplexity it’s not even that difficult to force a lot of players to use up their condi-clear.
If that duration was decreased to 5 seconds (which is the max confusion duration most [if not all] skills/traits have) and the 40% food nerfed to be more in line with other food, then maybe Perplexity runes would be fair(-ish). Waiting for the confusion stacks to run out needs to be viable.
Well I’m glad a lot of people agree here. I was somewhat afraid I would be spammed with “L2P.”
I tried Perplex runes on my Ranger a while back just to see how it would go. Taking in to account that I’m not a noobish Ranger and actually know how to use my profession, I can promise you that even on a Ranger these runes are OP as hell.
Concussion Shot = 5stacks, Muddy Terrain to immobilize my target, Reef Drake F2 = 5stacks, if they hit me during any of this, very likely more confusion… I couldn’t tell you how many Thieves killed themselves attacking me when I was using those runes so I swapped them out for something else because I do not like using crap that basically wins for you.
I kind of like the idea of Confusion stacking in duration instead of intensity though. Because as is… Any more than 3 stacks on you and there’s no point in fighting back if you can’t cleanse it because you’ll just kill yourself. On paper, the idea of Confusion is nice, but in practice it’s just a bit ridiculous. I really, really, really hate to run from fights because I much prefer to learn from every loss… But if I’ve fought someone who’s using Perplexity runes and I see them later on, no way am I fighting them again because I know I’ll get screwed.
Blah… I don’t like complaining about something this much but I promise I very rarely cry “OP.” This is one of those rare occasions though…
Run water ele’s in your zerg, we have two water-heal ele’s in our guild zerg and conditions are basicaly none existant.
A good zerg composition is key to victory and you can easily take out a zerg full of selfish 1v1 spec’s twice the size if your team comp is good.
so your strategy to beating someone with perplexity runes is to run a zerg against them?
i don’t see how those runes could possibly be broken.
if you want those runes fixed then lobby to introduce them into pvp, thats were anet makes their decisions to make or break a class.
1v1 Is more or less irrelevant in WvW, all those roaming solo players only give the enemy team an advantage. You need like 5 roaming thieves to scout and the rest should be in groups.
The game is balanced around 5v5, if you don’t have a group where ppl have some shared roles, then it can’t be helped much. If you go solo roaming then it’s your own risk of being ganked by random group of condi+zerker players (which usually happens in around 3-4 min since the start of your adventure). At that point if you’re not a stealth class or some Usain Bolt warrior, you will just have to respawn and restart…
I see the opener is a necro, you might want to check Ascii stream to see how he manages conditions, can pick up some nice tricks.
confusion damage has been nerfed time after time after time and still complaints abound
why does anet think it is ok to torture players for fighting? confusion and torment are toxic mechanics and cannot be properly balanced because any time they do enough damage to matter, the suffering player is gonna realize that s/he was just being punished for acting instead of getting outskilled.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
confusion damage has been nerfed time after time after time and still complaints abound
why does anet think it is ok to torture players for fighting? confusion and torment are toxic mechanics and cannot be properly balanced because any time they do enough damage to matter, the suffering player is gonna realize that s/he was just being punished for acting instead of getting outskilled.
What? They are other “acting-punishing” concepts like retaliation,auras and a constant immobilization form war will lead to more damage than confusion from engineer. They are not that many ways a class can produce a decent amout of one or both even a shatter condition mesmer or terromancer . Every build has a weakness it seems those are yours if you switch to more cleansing you’ll be weaker against power builds see the pattern?
I refuse to see a build countered by a one or two cleansing.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
confusion damage has been nerfed time after time after time and still complaints abound
why does anet think it is ok to torture players for fighting? confusion and torment are toxic mechanics and cannot be properly balanced because any time they do enough damage to matter, the suffering player is gonna realize that s/he was just being punished for acting instead of getting outskilled.
What? They are other “acting-punishing” concepts like retaliation,auras and a constant immobilization form war will lead to more damage than confusion from engineer. They are not that many ways a class can produce a decent amout of one or both even a shatter condition mesmer or terromancer . Every build has a weakness it seems those are yours if you switch to more cleansing you’ll be weaker against power builds see the pattern?
I refuse to see a build countered by a one or two cleansing.
retal was nerfed too. auras dont even matter. theyre too niche.
and frankly your assumption that confusion and torment are my personal weaknesses is somewhat insulting, i dont have much trouble with them. i was making a statement that punishing gameplay is bad design. because its more unfun for the punished than it is fun for the punisher.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
On my server i ask my fellow engineers when they roaming.
-You using perplexity runes?
-Yes.
-I wish you die and dogs kitten your ded corps.
Zis runes are still too strong in small-scalle wvw.
No i don’t have suggestions how to fix, but better to do it through the runes and not overall condition mechanics, because cofusion is not OP, but perplexity runes are OP in current state of gaem
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