Guild Wars 2

So i just fought a Thief you used Pistol Whip SIX times in a row. and during our fight he used it TWENTY SIX times….

Can someone explain to me how he was able to use a skill that is meant to have a 5 initiative cost at the VERY best, he would be able to use it TWICE before running out of Initiative. So i am wondering how he was able to use it SO many times.

one pistol whip attack hits several times

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

So i just fought a Thief you used Pistol Whip SIX times in a row. and during our fight he used it TWENTY SIX times….

Can someone explain to me how he was able to use a skill that is meant to have a 5 initiative cost at the VERY best, he would be able to use it TWICE before running out of Initiative. So i am wondering how he was able to use it SO many times.

At 5 initiative for each attack a thief can use it 3 times if they hhave the extra 3 initiative. By the end of that time he probably had generated another 5 to use it a 4th time through natural regen or roll for initiative. If each hits for a channel of 6, that would be 24 hits.

Next time dodge away.

Whats the best way to counter this sort of build? he pretty much spammed the same button over and over and the ONLY reason he killed me was simply as he jumped into stealth every chance he got.

Then again, it taking him minutes to kill someone who is using armor that is over 40 levels to low is kinda sad…

The best way to avoid it is to walk away after the quick daze is over

Each pistol whip hits 9×. He hit you with the actual attack itself 3 times, and you sir are really bad at dodging (or face tank like a boss)! You only moved out of one of the hits.

You realise you can literally just walk away from Pistol Whip and you wont get hit by it right? The only way a thief can hit you with it is if you are seriously not paying attention, if you are CC’d already from one of his other abilities, or if he has quickness.

This post made my night. 26 times!! :P

Ps: The counter to this are your directional keys.

Stx.4857:

You realise you can literally just walk away from Pistol Whip and you wont get hit by it right? The only way a thief can hit you with it is if you are seriously not paying attention, if you are CC’d already from one of his other abilities, or if he has quickness.

Not exactly easy to “walk” away as a Necromancer we literately have no way to escape. Plus with like no access to Vigor dodging can only do so much, its easy to say “Dodge this” and “Dodge that” but when you are a class that doesnt have any access to vigor it makes it a little bit harder to dodge everything…

Viking Jorun.5413:

You only moved out of one of the hits.

I am purely Melee/Mid Range build, It wasnt so much the Pistol Whip that killed me, i was shocked that i got hit by it so many times but the damage was very weak. It was the constant going into Stealth, i had him below 20% like 2 or 3 times during the fight and he would just stealth away and return with full health…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Not exactly easy to “walk” away as a Necromancer we literately have no way to escape. Plus with like no access to Vigor dodging can only do so much, its easy to say “Dodge this” and “Dodge that” but when you are a class that doesnt have any access to vigor it makes it a little bit harder to dodge everything…

Pistol Whip roots the thief. It used to be somewhat effective for init regen on some builds but now it is a minor annoyance at best.

So as a Necromancer would fighting this sort of build be improved by NOT using Minions? Currently i only use Flesh Golem, find the others to be a bit hit and miss on if they are useful.

The only way I can possibly conceive someone getting hit by a pistol whip is if they are using a wireless keyboard and the battery suddenly goes flat mid fight.

Elthuzar.9478:

The only way I can possibly conceive someone getting hit by a pistol whip is if they are using a wireless keyboard and the battery suddenly goes flat mid fight.

Or they are a Melee build and don’t have all the lovely access to invuls, dodges, stealth and everything else all other classes get…Just a thought.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Elthuzar.9478:

The only way I can possibly conceive someone getting hit by a pistol whip is if they are using a wireless keyboard and the battery suddenly goes flat mid fight.

Or they are a Melee build and don’t have all the lovely access to invuls, dodges, stealth and everything else all other classes get…Just a thought.

You don’t need any of that. Pistol Whip when cast roots the thief in place, and the stun from it ends before any of the actual strikes begin. You literally can just walk away from him until he stops swinging then resume attacking.

As a power Necro I assume you have access to several roots and fears and maybe even a daze and knockdown. Use those when he is not using Pistol Whip.

Oh and he cant use stealth very often with sword/pistol… he was probably using stealth utilities but those have longer cool downs.

Maybe i should go on a Thief and try it out, its really the first time i have actually seen this weapon combo. The others i dont seem to mind as much. Though i would have had him if most of my armor wasnt like level 40 as i got him down to under 20% several times but thanks to the lack of Crit Damage and Power i wasnt able to finish him off. Waiting for the Trading Post to start working for me (broken for 2 days now -.-) so i can finally upgrade my gear.

Pistol whip had it’s after cast reduced (the pistol whip part starts faster after the initial stun now), plus if they used infiltrator’s strike to root you for 1 second, dodging out of the pistol whip entirely isn’t all that easy (you can get out of part of it though).

If you have retaliation, you’ll see dividends from using it during pistol whip.

Yup after the last patch initative regen got boosted because they also got a nerf where they don’t gain initative constantly while stealthed. I fought a thief yesterday who did black powder heartseeker backstab over and over and over and over again. He was only ever visable for about a second or two while he made a new blackpowder to jump through to stealth.

PW doesn’t do lots of damage in general. It’s power lies in the easy access to stun.
And like said before, the combat log shows you the individual slashes that is all inside 1 pistol whip, not actually how much he used that skill.

Retaliation and blind hurts this build a lot. So does any movement inhibition (immob, chill cripple). Since we need to hit you with the first part of the attack to have the rest hitting you (unless wasting an utility to shadowstep) a movement inhibition will make it very hard for us to connect the first part.
Also, conditions are easy to apply between hits (at least I mostly die from conditions while PW’ing in a node at PvP). So as a necro, spam those conditions.

Also: Stability .. oh stability…

This is why thief class is getting nerfed patch after patch:
junky threads.

just meh

mrmadhaze.8706:

This is why thief class is getting nerfed patch after patch:
junky threads.

just meh

I would say they were getting nerfed because they needed it, but hey thats just me. When a thief has enough stealth to get INTO the main spawn in an enemies WvW Map (the centre spawn) and is able to just stealth around inside it and not get killed, it has issues.

I experienced this last night as well. Once the extremely overpowered stealth is fixed they will be fine.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

mrmadhaze.8706:

This is why thief class is getting nerfed patch after patch:
junky threads.

just meh

I would say they were getting nerfed because they needed it, but hey thats just me. When a thief has enough stealth to get INTO the main spawn in an enemies WvW Map (the centre spawn) and is able to just stealth around inside it and not get killed, it has issues.

I experienced this last night as well. Once the extremely overpowered stealth is fixed they will be fine.

Or instead of waiting for ArenaNet to make thieves easy for you to kill, you could go ahead and learn to play instead of complaining about it

Even thieves wanted perma stealth to go away. It’s gone now, so please direct yourself to the nearest “L2P” thief thread.

I feel like from reading this thread this far the OP is making up excuse because he can’t kill a thief.

With a singet and roll build you can get intiative up very quick.

brandon.6735:

I feel like from reading this thread this far the OP is making up excuse because he can’t kill a thief.

I have stated several times. Had i had the gear i WOULD have killed him no doubt about it. I had him below 20% like 3 times during our fight but as my gear is like 40 levels to low compared to what level i actually i am i didnt have that little bit extra to finish him off.

I was more curious about the skill he had used, seeing as this was the first time i had encountered what i now know was a Sword/Dagger weapon set i had no idea about its skills or anything.

This again was not a post about “oh a Thief killed me, nerf them, nerf them” it was more of a “what skill is this” as i hadnt seen it before and then “whats the best way to counter it” because again i hadnt seen it before.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Or instead of waiting for ArenaNet to make thieves easy for you to kill, you could go ahead and learn to play instead of complaining about it

Even thieves wanted perma stealth to go away. It’s gone now, so please direct yourself to the nearest “L2P” thief thread.

OR maybe you could actually READ the posts before jumping to conclusions. This as i have already stated was NOT a “oh thief killed me, nerf him” it was post inquiring about a weapon set that i hadnt encountered before.

Had i had the right level armor, the fight would have ended differently.

Pistol Whip CAN be useful if it procs either Sigil of Rage or the thief trait that grants quickness (whatever it is called…). Otherwise the hits are slow enough so you can react accordingly.

mrmadhaze.8706:

This is why thief class is getting nerfed patch after patch:
junky threads.

just meh

Thief get spammable range root last patch.
Thief get increase init regen this patch with increase slightly init skill usage (back to square one)
Nerf? ya right.

I was more curious about the skill he had used, seeing as this was the first time i had encountered what i now know was a Sword/Dagger weapon set i had no idea about its skills or anything.

Sword/pistol build
And he can jump to you and root u(+cure condition) from far away ,stun you and make you eat at least 1/2 of the dmg , then jump back and CURE condition. Good luck necromancer.

Wait, are we still back in 2012? Like, when Pistol Whip was actually remotely decent outside of PvE? It’s become such a useless skill after they nerfed the stun on it, to the point of which you will barely get hit by any of the hits. It’s kinda like hundred-blading Warriors, they’re way too easy to just avoid.

KOK.2650:

Sword/pistol build
And he can jump to you and root u(+cure condition) from far away ,stun you and make you eat at least 1/2 of the dmg , then jump back and CURE condition. Good luck necromancer.

Let him, i dont run condition build anyway

Absconditus.6804:

Wait, are we still back in 2012? Like, when Pistol Whip was actually remotely decent outside of PvE? It’s become such a useless skill after they nerfed the stun on it, to the point of which you will barely get hit by any of the hits. It’s kinda like hundred-blading Warriors, they’re way too easy to just avoid.

Maybe when you have experienced it a few times, this is the first time i have EVER actually encountered it.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Absconditus.6804:

Wait, are we still back in 2012? Like, when Pistol Whip was actually remotely decent outside of PvE? It’s become such a useless skill after they nerfed the stun on it, to the point of which you will barely get hit by any of the hits. It’s kinda like hundred-blading Warriors, they’re way too easy to just avoid.

Maybe when you have experienced it a few times, this is the first time i have EVER actually encountered it.

Because hardly anyone uses it anymore. Only being able to kill players in gear 40 levels too low, who are surprised enough to just stand there getting hit, is likely the reason.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Because hardly anyone uses it anymore. Only being able to kill players in gear 40 levels too low, who are surprised enough to just stand there getting hit, is likely the reason.

well Not many places i could go – water would have killed me, and not a chance i could have out ran him. Plus being a Melee build and not equipping my Staff made it that little bit harder to actually be a threat and be safe.

Still for having really bad gear, getting him down to under 20% like 3 times wasnt too bad

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Because hardly anyone uses it anymore. Only being able to kill players in gear 40 levels too low, who are surprised enough to just stand there getting hit, is likely the reason.

well Not many places i could go – water would have killed me, and not a chance i could have out ran him. Plus being a Melee build and not equipping my Staff made it that little bit harder to actually be a threat and be safe.

Still for having really bad gear, getting him down to under 20% like 3 times wasnt too bad

you should’ve been able to kill him, necro is pretty OP right now.

Excalibur.9748:

you should’ve been able to kill him, necro is pretty OP right now.

Maybe if i took the noob way of Dhuumfire maybe, but i dont run that or a condition build.

Step 1: Open Options
Step 2: Uncheck “Melee Attack Assist”
Step 3: Walk through the thief when he pistol whips you.

Too hard? Buy 6 melandru runes and walk around doing whatever you want.

Pwhip thieves should never kill anyone unless they outnumber you. It’s a super troll pony cheese build with little to no utility. Easy counter.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Whats the best way to counter this sort of build? he pretty much spammed the same button over and over and the ONLY reason he killed me was simply as he jumped into stealth every chance he got.

Then again, it taking him minutes to kill someone who is using armor that is over 40 levels to low is kinda sad…

Reflects is an obvious one. Also projectile destruction.

Otherwise try walking through him to break his channel should he be strafing.

Pistol whip is overpowered!

KOK.2650:

mrmadhaze.8706:

This is why thief class is getting nerfed patch after patch:
junky threads.

just meh

Thief get spammable range root last patch.
Thief get increase init regen this patch with increase slightly init skill usage (back to square one)
Nerf? ya right.

The pattern for the last 10 years has been that such buffs get rolled back or nerfed to a state worse then the original situation. Within 2 months init regen will be bacl at .7, or less.

wiki is hard yo

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

brandon.6735:

I feel like from reading this thread this far the OP is making up excuse because he can’t kill a thief.

I have stated several times. Had i had the gear i WOULD have killed him no doubt about it. I had him below 20% like 3 times during our fight but as my gear is like 40 levels to low compared to what level i actually i am i didnt have that little bit extra to finish him off.

I was more curious about the skill he had used, seeing as this was the first time i had encountered what i now know was a Sword/Dagger weapon set i had no idea about its skills or anything.

This again was not a post about “oh a Thief killed me, nerf them, nerf them” it was more of a “what skill is this” as i hadnt seen it before and then “whats the best way to counter it” because again i hadnt seen it before.

Wait… so you were on a character with sub-optimal gear 40 levels lower than your level and you got him down to 20% health numerous times before he killed you? and you are assuming he is overpowered because you didn’t avoid his pistol whip?

The plot thickens…

The fact that you remained alive long enough to get this poor thief down to 20% of his health three separate times before he managed to finally kill you in your badly geared character just goes to show that it is not overpowered at all.

What level was your character at the time of this incident?

Elthuzar.9478:

Wait… so you were on a character with sub-optimal gear 40 levels lower than your level and you got him down to 20% health numerous times before he killed you? and you are assuming he is overpowered because you didn’t avoid his pistol whip?

The plot thickens…

The fact that you remained alive long enough to get this poor thief down to 20% of his health three separate times before he managed to finally kill you in your badly geared character just goes to show that it is not overpowered at all.

What level was your character at the time of this incident?

I was NOT assuming he was overpowered, i do wish people would actually read everything first. As i have stated SEVERAL times. This was the first time i had ever encountered this weapon combo, so i had no idea how it worked or anything so it was pretty much “How best to counter this” sort of thing

I am NOT saying he was overpowered, i am NOT saying i want Thief nerfed into hell. I do think that Stealth needs a rework but thats just me. I was just simply shocked at a weapon set combo that i hadnt seen before, Think having my Minion Flesh Golem out helped him a bit when it came to that attack but i was more shocked about the number of hits as i didnt really notice him doing any sort of Sneak Attack or Repeater sort of attack where they attack multiple times which of course now i know isnt how the attack works.

Both Level 80 but i was wearing level 40 gear in most slots as i spent all my BoH on other characters :/

consider pressing buttons on the keyboard

Armageddonash, I wish you would just read my post a bit higher instead of replying to ppl who falsely accuse you. I did explain entirely how PW works and how to work with it as opponent. I’m a S/P thief myself and yes we’re rare but it’s not unbeatable.

PS: Thieves never were able to get into enemy spawn using stealth. They used fly hacks to get into the zone where no legendary defender were (the crafting stations).

Thieve could stealth and walk in gwalchgn. a few months ago they extended the blocker on the wall.

as for fighting s/p op, don’t even bother taken the time to learn to fight them.
while you might see a few s/p users around latelty, in a week or 2 they will realize that s/p wasn’t actually buffed (was a revert) and since the change to #2 there sadly worst/no better then what they where.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

PW doesn’t do lots of damage in general. It’s power lies in the easy access to stun.
And like said before, the combat log shows you the individual slashes that is all inside 1 pistol whip, not actually how much he used that skill.

Yeah, at first i thought it was like one of them unload sort of skills where they have to channel it and thats where i was a bit confused as i rarely saw him channeling anything. The damage as shown was no threat at all, The stun wasnt to bad and he never really used it at times when it would have been BETTER to use it.

I dont think he interrupted me on any of my channel skills at all.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Retaliation and blind hurts this build a lot. So does any movement inhibition (immob, chill cripple). Since we need to hit you with the first part of the attack to have the rest hitting you (unless wasting an utility to shadowstep) a movement inhibition will make it very hard for us to connect the first part.

My build has no access to blinds, I did get Retal up but with 1 target around it didnt really stay on for that long. My chills helped alot with slowing him down so i could stay on top of him which helps with the Vul stacking of several sources i have.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Also, conditions are easy to apply between hits (at least I mostly die from conditions while PW’ing in a node at PvP). So as a necro, spam those conditions.

As a necro, i dont run a condition build so have no access to conditions outside of Cripple, Chill, Vul and Torment

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Also: Stability .. oh stability…

Again, no access to this at all, unless i go with one of the elites.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

PS: Thieves never were able to get into enemy spawn using stealth. They used fly hacks to get into the zone where no legendary defender were (the crafting stations).

This thief did and without using any hacks (as far as i could tell) i could see him using the BP then HS combo going around the place, when i finally caught him he either ported out the portal it was right where the portals were or he exited the game or hacked his way to safety

I also play a necro, you know he is going to PW you, drop a well on your self when he does, go to DS, fear, life blast, collect bag.

Samhayn.2385:

I also play a necro, you know he is going to PW you, drop a well on your self when he does, go to DS, fear, life blast, collect bag.

which well?
Plus the fact that Thief Fear is an INSANE duration compared to own actual skills is very annoying.

You really shouldn’t expect to not have hard counters playing power necro. So just take it as it is. Other classes/builds destroy s/p thieves.