Guild Wars 2

I have not found much official information about this, so if anyone could please tell me whether it will just be a straight up tie, or the ranks will be decided on the glicko score that could be earned pre-tournament. Thanks.

The devs don’t have an answer for this yet. They were debating it this afternoon with no conclusion reached.

My Edit as well:

Edit: Lol this was only a joke, stop making a rumor out of a joke

Dhampyr.2104:

The devs don’t have an answer for this yet. They were debating it this afternoon with no conclusion reached.

The one who programmed it left the company in the meantime, so they are as curious as we are what will happen

Edit: Lol this was only a joke, stop making a rumor out of a joke

The most likely answer is that glicko is going to be the tie breaker… No one knows for sure tho.

i think they will just give the same reward to tied servers but aren t telling to avoid ranking manipulation.

Dayra.7405:

Dhampyr.2104:

The devs don’t have an answer for this yet. They were debating it this afternoon with no conclusion reached.

The one who programmed it left the company in the meantime, so they are as curious as we are what will happen

Who left?? Is it Devon?

Also: tie servers share place. If 2 servers have second place then the next server will have fourth place, there will be no third.

Rezz.8019:

Dayra.7405:

Dhampyr.2104:

The devs don’t have an answer for this yet. They were debating it this afternoon with no conclusion reached.

The one who programmed it left the company in the meantime, so they are as curious as we are what will happen

Who left?? Is it Devon?

Also: tie servers share place. If 2 servers have second place then the next server will have fourth place, there will be no third.

I wish him luck, but maybe we can get some open discussion with developers now…

Jeknar.6184:

The most likely answer is that glicko is going to be the tie breaker… No one knows for sure tho.

They will remained tied for X position and receive the same rewards, is actually the most likely answer.

Yeah, I would love to have some sources on the information stated as facts in this thread (such as devs leaving, devs having no plan for ties and so on).

Personally I am rather sure that we did hear something about what would happen in case of a tie at the start of the Season, but can’t find the source now.

last season, they said that ties would be ties (no use of rating as tiebreakers).

they have not said they would do it differently this season, so I think it’s reasonably safe to assume that it will be done the same way again.

-ken

Dayra.7405:

Dhampyr.2104:

The devs don’t have an answer for this yet. They were debating it this afternoon with no conclusion reached.

The one who programmed it left the company in the meantime, so they are as curious as we are what will happen

Edit: Lol this was only a joke, stop making a rumor out of a joke

Ye but it’s probably true. The others put pins on the WvW programmer’s chairs and call him/her “stinky” behind his/her back. Or they would if he/she existed.

Thank you for the official answer. This has been asked so many times in the last few weeks.

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

If two worlds tie, both will receive the better reward.

For example, if there are two worlds tied for 1st place, both will receive 1st place rewards. Then the next world would receive 3rd place, and so on.

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

Dosvidaniya.3260:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

If two worlds tie, both will receive the better reward.

For example, if there are two worlds tied for 1st place, both will receive 1st place rewards. Then the next world would receive 3rd place, and so on.

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

The system is working as ANet intended, so AR is not ranked lower than they are supposed to have been.

However, I agree with your main point: there’s a problem with scoring in both the 2013 and 2014 tournaments that I hope they address: any server coming in 2nd or 3rd in tier N is guaranteed more points for less work by tanking a match enough to drop them to tier N-1 — they get an easy win that week for 5 points instead of struggling to get 1 or 3 points against more competitive worlds. It should never happen that a score is better just because the server’s schedule is easier.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

However, I agree with your main point: there’s a problem with scoring in both the 2013 and 2014 tournaments that I hope they address: any server coming in 2nd or 3rd in tier N is guaranteed more points for less work by tanking a match enough to drop them to tier N-1 — they get an easy win that week for 5 points instead of struggling to get 1 or 3 points against more competitive worlds. It should never happen that a score is better just because the server’s schedule is easier.

How would tanking during the season be a problem on season 1 if all matchups were scheduled and not decided by the outcome of the matches like this year? It’s a problem now on season 2, but definetely wasn’t on season 1.

Lawls, an answer the day before it ends after weeks and weeks of asking.... this kitten would be comical if it wasn’t so gd depressing.

Where do I go to see if BG is tied with JQ for 1st place in NA Gold?

Dosvidaniya.3260:

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

Because the servers aren’t being ranked on how they fought every single other server, they’re being ranked on how they did in the totality of their three-way fights.

You’ve brought up this AR>EB so why is EB>AR in medals thing a couple of times now. As it stands right now, the two servers are tied. But if the current trend holds, we’re going to come in first in our current match, and you’re going to come in third, so we will have four more medals than you.

Or if you prefer, after this weeks match AR will have won three times, placed second once, and third five times. 3 – 1 – 5

EB will have won three times, placed second three times, and third three times. 3 – 3 – 3

Same number of wins for both servers, but we came in second more than you. We placed better in our matches overall than you did. It doesn’t mean that we are a better server than you, or that we can beat you.

Both times we were matched against each other (both times because you had dropped down to the T8 fight) you k-trained us endlessly. We haven’t forgotten.

You’re a T7 server with a rating about 80 points above us. You want props for beating the special class?

You beat Kaineng the only time you were matched with them, but you’re going to end up tied – why not include that in the examples you’re unhappy about?

If this is tied to how we were competitive servers over a year ago, let it go. You’re the bigger and badder (not in a negative way) server. We know it, you know it, everybody else knows it.

We’re not likely to play against each other for quite a while, unless there’s a major shuffling of server ratings after this tournament is over – we’re at the top of T8 and you’re at the bottom of T7. If either of us moves in the obvious direction, we just swap places.

Be classy, and when we eventually do fight, make the most mocking matchup thread you can. And I’d share my extra tickets with you if I could. <3

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Where do I go to see if BG is tied with JQ for 1st place in NA Gold?

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/wvwgold

BG is likely to tie for 3rd with SoS.

Paddy.3985:

Lawls, an answer the day before it ends after weeks and weeks of asking…. this kitten would be comical if it wasn’t so gd depressing.

At least there is a answer… I wouldn’t complain.

Rimmy.9217:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

Because the servers aren’t being ranked on how they fought every single other server, they’re being ranked on how they did in the totality of their three-way fights…

Except the matchups were chosen by ANet due to a tie. Had ANet spent 2 minutes reading the swiss tournament wiki page, they’d know how to actually handle this situation. If we were placed against the lower matchup and you against the upper, we’d be ahead of you (which is actually what you’re supposed to do per the tournament style they chose). But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Rimmy.9217:

You’re a T7 server with a rating about 80 points above us. You want props for beating the special class?

You beat Kaineng the only time you were matched with them, but you’re going to end up tied – why not include that in the examples you’re unhappy about?

If this is tied to how we were competitive servers over a year ago, let it go. You’re the bigger and badder (not in a negative way) server. We know it, you know it, everybody else knows it…

I’m not complaining about Kain because I don’t care. If they gave everyone the 4th place rewards, I’d be happy. However, I am upset that I’m once again being screwed by ANet. This time it isn’t even due to coverage and other nonsense. No, this time it’s because of some stupid decision on what to do in the event of a tie while the tournament is going. And that stupid decision isn’t even logical.

I honestly believe that everyone of the bottom of bronze deserves 300 tickets. I’ve got nothing against EB. However, it’s utter lunacy that a server that perpetually beat the bottom three be rated lower and rewarded less than one of them.

Dosvidaniya.3260:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

If two worlds tie, both will receive the better reward.

For example, if there are two worlds tied for 1st place, both will receive 1st place rewards. Then the next world would receive 3rd place, and so on.

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

Next season, you should suggest that Anet use 4-2-1 scoring instead of 5-3-1 scoring.

This way an upwardly striving server that wins its matchup and gets punished in the higher tier fares better than the server that loses in second place.

Most of use would agree that 1-0-1 is better than 0-2-0, and a proper scoring system should take this into account.

nekretaal.6485:

Next season, you should suggest that Anet use 4-2-1 scoring instead of 5-3-1 scoring.

This way an upwardly striving server that wins its matchup and gets punished in the higher tier fares better than the server that loses in second place.

Most of use would agree that 1-0-1 is better than 0-2-0, and a proper scoring system should take this into account.

It should be winner take all to avoid promoting fight for second. If a server want to get somenthing, they should attack the top dog for it, not fight for scraps with the other underdog while the top server run a with easy win.

When will the rewards be delivered?

I bet that if there will be a season 3 there will be more than 2-3 1st place placed servers.

Match Arranging here we go!

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Just like in the other thread, I think nothing of the sort. However, just for sheer number of medals awarded during this thing, we’d still be ahead of you. Not because we’re better, not because we can beat you, but because you came in third more times than we did in during the same period.

I’d be delighted if the ties worked out like this:

1st – Gates of Madness
2nd – Sorrows Furnace
2nd – Devona’s Rest
3rd – Ferguson’s Crossing
3rd – Darkhaven
3rd – Ehmry Bay
4th – Anvil Rock
4th – Kaineng
5th – Eredon Terrace

Because then everybody in our league would get the 300 tickets to get themselves a mistforged weapon skin, if they’d finished the meta and were so inclined.

I’m not smug that we placed ahead of you. We just did. Our ambition for the tournament, such as it was, was see if we could rise up from 24th place. Our WvW has sort of stabilized after the latest mass exodus, so the survivors and newbies and the achievement hunters and the people in-between managed to win a few fights. So we’re happy.

The placing is just icing, it isn’t the cake. We don’t take any particular satisfaction is placing over AR. We’re just glad we still have people left who log in to WvW.

Jeknar.6184:

It should be winner take all to avoid promoting fight for second. If a server want to get somenthing, they should attack the top dog for it, not fight for scraps with the other underdog while the top server run a with easy win.

This. If the server in first place is ahead by anything more than a small amount, the other two servers should be focusing them down, and forcing them to justify being in first place.

Better to fight for first and second than second and third.

Rimmy.9217:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

1st – Gates of Madness
2nd – Sorrows Furnace
2nd – Devona’s Rest
4th – Ferguson’s Crossing
4th – Darkhaven
4th – Ehmry Bay
7th – Anvil Rock
7th – Kaineng
9th – Eredon Terrace

think this will be how it will look in the end for rewards

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Coverage, coverage, coverage. No one really “earned” anything anyway.

Rimmy.9217:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Just like in the other thread, I think nothing of the sort. However, just for sheer number of medals awarded during this thing, we’d still be ahead of you. Not because we’re better, not because we can beat you, but because you came in third more times than we did in during the same period.

I’d be delighted if the ties worked out like this:

1st – Gates of Madness
2nd – Sorrows Furnace
2nd – Devona’s Rest
3rd – Ferguson’s Crossing
3rd – Darkhaven
3rd – Ehmry Bay
4th – Anvil Rock
4th – Kaineng
5th – Eredon Terrace

Because then everybody in our league would get the 300 tickets to get themselves a mistforged weapon skin, if they’d finished the meta and were so inclined.

I’m not smug that we placed ahead of you. We just did. Our ambition for the tournament, such as it was, was see if we could rise up from 24th place. Our WvW has sort of stabilized after the latest mass exodus, so the survivors and newbies and the achievement hunters and the people in-between managed to win a few fights. So we’re happy.

The placing is just icing, it isn’t the cake. We don’t take any particular satisfaction is placing over AR. We’re just glad we still have people left who log in to WvW.

Thats not how it works.

If two servers tie for 2nd place, then the 4th server doesnt get 3th place they still get 4th.
4th place server is still behind 3 other servers, so thats why they will still be a 4th place. 3th place will be skipped entirely.

Seasson 2 matchups:
Desolation 3:2 Baruch Bay
Desolation 2:0 Riverside
Baruch Bay 2:0 Riverside

And yet all 3 servers placed 2nd… GG swiss-style

Does anyone know when is the exact time the season 2 ends?
I got 1 ach to do today (kitten jumping puzzle) so I’d like to know if I can make it or not… thank you in advance!

I think in about 5 or 6 hours.

Plenty of time for some jumping puzzle, but i wouldnt slack to much.

axe.5621:

Seasson 2 matchups:
Desolation 3:2 Baruch Bay
Desolation 2:0 Riverside
Baruch Bay 2:0 Riverside

And yet all 3 servers placed 2nd… GG swiss-style

In reward they may all be 2nd, but in reality people know which server was real 2nd place and which was more 3th or 4th.

What’s interesting is for NA, with the exception of Emry Bay (EB) placing above Anvil Rock(AR), every other server is in order of its Glicko Rating.

However, with the tournament point system, it allows there to be ties and two servers with close Glicko Ratings (ex. Isle of Janthir and Stormbluff Isle) to share the same rewards instead of one slightly edging out the other to get a better reward.

So, I think the Swiss point system worked fine, the only thing that would be nice to see is a change to WvW scoring system overall to make more close matches. It seems there still is such a large gap between server’s WvW capabilities, that tournies like this have very few upsets or surprises.

Rimmy.9217:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Just like in the other thread, I think nothing of the sort. However, just for sheer number of medals awarded during this thing, we’d still be ahead of you. Not because we’re better, not because we can beat you, but because you came in third more times than we did in during the same period.

I’d be delighted if the ties worked out like this:

1st – Gates of Madness
2nd – Sorrows Furnace
2nd – Devona’s Rest
3rd – Ferguson’s Crossing
3rd – Darkhaven
3rd – Ehmry Bay
4th – Anvil Rock
4th – Kaineng
5th – Eredon Terrace

Because then everybody in our league would get the 300 tickets to get themselves a mistforged weapon skin, if they’d finished the meta and were so inclined.

I’m not smug that we placed ahead of you. We just did. Our ambition for the tournament, such as it was, was see if we could rise up from 24th place. Our WvW has sort of stabilized after the latest mass exodus, so the survivors and newbies and the achievement hunters and the people in-between managed to win a few fights. So we’re happy.

The placing is just icing, it isn’t the cake. We don’t take any particular satisfaction is placing over AR. We’re just glad we still have people left who log in to WvW.

Ties Never work like that…

Terrahero.9358:

Thats not how it works.

If two servers tie for 2nd place, then the 4th server doesnt get 3th place they still get 4th.
4th place server is still behind 3 other servers, so thats why they will still be a 4th place. 3th place will be skipped entirely.

I know, I was just saying I’d be happy if the servers in bronze shook out like that, all getting adequate tickets for a shot at a mistforged skin.

Just trying out these rose-tinted glasses I found.

Dosvidaniya.3260:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

If two worlds tie, both will receive the better reward.

For example, if there are two worlds tied for 1st place, both will receive 1st place rewards. Then the next world would receive 3rd place, and so on.

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

- I will keep this simple we all had 8 weeks up to now to see how the system was playing out and the places were displayed weekly for the standings. So to complain about a systems you had 8 weeks to learn is not going to help now. Simply put we noticed on DR that it would be best to lose on week 8 for the best possible placement in week 9 because of how the system was laid out with the brackets and played the way it was most beneficial to us. It didn’t take much to do the math. and it is a 9 week tournament. You are placed where you are because of the simplest part…. you have less points.

Shyn.3407:

- I will keep this simple we all had 8 weeks up to now to see how the system was playing out and the places were displayed weekly for the standings. So to complain about a systems you had 8 weeks to learn is not going to help now. Simply put we noticed on DR that it would be best to lose on week 8 for the best possible placement in week 9 because of how the system was laid out with the brackets and played the way it was most beneficial to us. It didn’t take much to do the math. and it is a 9 week tournament. You are placed where you are because of the simplest part…. you have less points.

Tanking against Kaineng and Eredon Terrace is hard. All that Karma Train sound appealing…

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

But go ahead and pretend you “earned” it when it is just some tie-break technicality.

Coverage, coverage, coverage. No one really “earned” anything anyway.

Yeah, but coverage doesn’t even enter into the equation for AR and EB. We lose simply because AR and EB were tied with points during the season. Rather than follow the swiss tournament rules, ANet opted to simply leave EB in the lower bracket for these ties. As a result, they played 7 of 9 weeks in the lowest bracket and are beating AR. Never mind the fact that AR never lost a match to EB or any of the servers EB beat. This time, we’re losing simply because ANet clearly didn’t have any idea how to properly handle a tie while the tournament was progressing.

Shyn.3407:

Dosvidaniya.3260:

Jessica Boettiger.2563:

If two worlds tie, both will receive the better reward.

For example, if there are two worlds tied for 1st place, both will receive 1st place rewards. Then the next world would receive 3rd place, and so on.

What about servers who are now placed lower than they should be because of ties during the season?

For example, Anvil Rock (AR) and Ehmry Bay (EB). AR is going to end up placing 7th. EB is going to end up tying for 4th. AR beat EB 2 wins, 0 losses. Why is EB higher? Well, when the two tied on points (twice) during the season, ANet opted to place EB in the lower tier (giving them more points) while leaving AR in the higher tier (decreasing their points). As a result, AR is now ranked lower than the server they clearly beat.

- I will keep this simple we all had 8 weeks up to now to see how the system was playing out and the places were displayed weekly for the standings. So to complain about a systems you had 8 weeks to learn is not going to help now. Simply put we noticed on DR that it would be best to lose on week 8 for the best possible placement in week 9 because of how the system was laid out with the brackets and played the way it was most beneficial to us. It didn’t take much to do the math. and it is a 9 week tournament. You are placed where you are because of the simplest part…. you have less points.

I know why we’re placed where we are placed. It doesn’t make the system less broken. Please try to read what I actually posted. This has to do with ties during the season; something we didn’t know about for 8 weeks.

Due to EB losing in the bottom tier, AR and EB were tied on points during the tournament. ANet left EB in the bottom tier each time this occurred. Because ANet opted to favor them, they played 7 of their 9 weeks in the bottom tier. Because of this, they are beating AR. AR never dropped a match to EB or any of the servers that EB actually beat. The reason we are losing is simply because we were tied during the matchup and ANet decided to make EB win.

Edit: And no, there is not some way to tank and still come out where we should be. When ANet opts to screw you whenever you are tied by tossing you into a higher tier, you’re kittened.

arenanet didnt favor EB. It simply uses the glicko system as a tie breaker.

If either AR or EB had to be in a higher tier fight, with equal points, the server with the higher rating goes to the higher tier and the server with the lower rating goes to the lower tier.
Very predictable.

Terrahero.9358:

arenanet didnt favor EB. It simply uses the glicko system as a tie breaker.

If either AR or EB had to be in a higher tier fight, with equal points, the server with the higher rating goes to the higher tier and the server with the lower rating goes to the lower tier.
Very predictable.

Let’s not forget to say that this was announced prior the seasons even started… So everyone knew that the higher rating server would always be placed above the lower rating ones in the matchup making…

Other servers tanked week 8 in order to be able to get better rewards on week 9 like SBI, NSP and DR (SBI got screwed tho because FA is bigger than they could handle). AR had the chance to do it aswell, yet they decided to K-Train ET/Kain without a doubt.

Jeknar.6184:

Terrahero.9358:

arenanet didnt favor EB. It simply uses the glicko system as a tie breaker.

If either AR or EB had to be in a higher tier fight, with equal points, the server with the higher rating goes to the higher tier and the server with the lower rating goes to the lower tier.
Very predictable.

Let’s not forget to say that this was announced prior the seasons even started… So everyone knew that the higher rating server would always be placed above the lower rating ones in the matchup making…

Other servers tanked week 8 in order to be able to get better rewards on week 9 like SBI, NSP and DR (SBI got screwed tho because FA is bigger than they could handle). AR had the chance to do it aswell, yet they decided to K-Train ET/Kain without a doubt.

They posted that “the team with the higher world rating will be considered the higher seed for the purposes of the matchup.” They never said that “the team with the higher world rating will fall into the higher bracket.” The swiss style tournament specifies that the higher seed be matched with the lower one. Most systems tend to follow that theme because it’s logical and stops this type of nonsense.

You’re right, AR could have tanked to pull ahead of EB. That way, none of us could have Mistforged weapons! I guess you wanted us to make sure that EB lost 75 tickets and Kain lost 25 just so we could get 25 more and so none of us could have 300. I’ll make a note that ET prefers the “if I can’t have it, no one can!” mentality.

Dosvidaniya.3260:

You’re right, AR could have tanked to pull ahead of EB. That way, none of us could have Mistforged weapons! I guess you wanted us to make sure that EB lost 75 tickets and Kain lost 25 just so we could get 25 more and so none of us could have 300. I’ll make a note that ET prefers the “if I can’t have it, no one can!” mentality.

Hmmm, you’re right… I forgot AR have 2 pts less then the rest of T7. Even if they tanked, they would end up only being 6th, which gives only 275 tickets.

And I’ll ignore the last part of your post because I’m not up to discuss such stupid assumption.