Guild Wars 2

1. You want to design a map that forces combat more often, not makes it easier to avoid.

2. Less layers and less confusing paths to and from objectives for both offensive and defensive gameplay.

3. Less pve and automation.

4. Maps should encourage fast paced gameplay.

Eotm and all original maps were well designed with the above factors in mind. If you want to do something good for wvw and the community, then I suggest giving EB and borderlands a visual makeover. Perhaps a slight tweak here and there to create a feeling of newness, but that’s it.

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

^

But those “not so bland” maps are emptier for reason I pointed out and you apparently missed the “_slight_tweak” part… Also, are you two saying that you’d prefer keeping these “ghosts of the mists” maps? Okie dokie…

Another also, ummm, you have a ton of choke and “creative gameplay” points for small groups in the old maps…

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

Which is a different thing to ‘a map that forces combat more often’, it is supposed to be an RvR type mode with “massive battles” (or just battles fullstop), yet the whole system / maps in WvW are poorly designed in that “winning” involves PvDoor, avoiding fights and playing at times when the other server does not, which is a joke, and is partly why the game mode has been bleeding players most of the game.

The new map just takes that problem and makes it worse, it is even easier to avoid fights, and PvDoor on it, slower for people to intercept, etc.

Which is why several other RvR type game modes have maps that are either somewhat akin to lanes, at least for the main objectives, or restrict what objectives you can attack to what is immediately adjacent to the area your faction controls, this forces fights, unlike the joke that is WvW.

You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.

• A new expansion has come with big promises to wvw and people are still disappointed which can be a reason for not playing.
• Also you need to grind a lot for your guild and I know one guild that only does WvW and since the expansion was out they do more farming in PVE than ever to rush to the +5 supply upgrade of the guild.
• The new maps are challenging for commanders cause they need to go solo for 4-6 hours and figure out the map and then start leading people. But most don’t do this and they just follow the roads and end up in dead-ends, fall off high cliffs and die, get stuck in barricades, etc. So commanders blame the map for their incompetence and followers blame it too cause that’s the easiest thing to do.
• Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.

Catalin.5341:

• The new maps are challenging for commanders cause they need to go solo for 4-6 hours and figure out the map and then start leading people. But most don’t do this and they just follow the roads and end up in dead-ends, fall off high cliffs and die, get stuck in barricades, etc. So commanders blame the map for their incompetence and followers blame it too cause that’s the easiest thing to do.

This is what I think the main problem is.

Get embarrassed because you don’t know the map, then blame the map. Then rage quit.

The map is not good for a wvw setting, that’s very clear.

Oh look, transfers to any server are open lol

Catalin.5341:

• Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.

LOL yea funny how people forget. The new map though I’ll agree is less fun for certain reasons related to navigation, distances, and offense/defense balance.

Everyone that played EBG (BlobBG) are still playing the same thing.
But somehow most expected that somehow the new BL maps will be so great that EBG will be a thing of the past.
EBG = blobs
BL = more ninja, more gvg, less blobbing

Chaba.5410:

Catalin.5341:

• Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.

LOL yea funny how people forget. The new map though I’ll agree is less fun for certain reasons related to navigation, distances, and offense/defense balance.

Thats the mechanics problem added to the map, if dont get ignored and fixed, soon or later, map will be fine.
Altough if game continues only from ppt thing cap and leave, and not giving importance actually to the stuff meh… nothing will change, more “dumb” or useless gimmicks addons will make it even worse.

Catalin.5341:

• Also you need to grind a lot for your guild and I know one guild that only does WvW and since the expansion was out they do more farming in PVE than ever to rush to the +5 supply upgrade of the guild.

The funny thing is that by the time they finish grinding that out, there won’t be anyone in WvW left to use it.

Catalin.5341:

You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.

Yes you can.
Before HoT I would spend multiple hours every day roaming the bl’s. Now I play maybe once or twice a week. The same goes for the majority of my friends list.

I learned the map as soon as it was released. It’s not a lack of knowledge that’s keeping me from being there and I’m not boring myself to death by playing pve. The map is bad. The gimmicky mechanics make it worse.

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

The reason no one plays the new maps is because they suck. No, WvW = large scale pvp not run around in an empty map and hide BS. That has no use in any PVP mode.

We do not have a decrease in players, we have a decrease in players on the BL maps and a Q 24/7 for EB now with people choosing to stand at the bank waiting in LA than step foot on the BL till their Q pops. Yes that is the new maps fault.

Jayne.9251:

Catalin.5341:

• The new maps are challenging for commanders cause they need to go solo for 4-6 hours and figure out the map and then start leading people. But most don’t do this and they just follow the roads and end up in dead-ends, fall off high cliffs and die, get stuck in barricades, etc. So commanders blame the map for their incompetence and followers blame it too cause that’s the easiest thing to do.

This is what I think the main problem is.

Get embarrassed because you don’t know the map, then blame the map. Then rage quit.

No, all our commanders know the maps, everyone just thinks they suck and do not have any desire to play on them due to them being a huge gimmicky waste of time.

Players want to fight each other. It isn’t that hard to ask people what they think.. maybe they should do a poll when you log into WvW to put it to a vote.

lil devils x.6071:

… maybe they should do a poll when you log into WvW to put it to a vote.

That would be the smart thing to do, instead of relying on the forums.

But it’d have to be people who log into WvW on a regular basis. Say it counts up the hours you spent in a given week, then a poll comes up if you pass a threshold?

At least then you would have a reasonable chance of getting educated feedback.

lil devils x.6071:

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

The reason no one plays the new maps is because they suck. No, WvW = large scale pvp not run around in an empty map and hide BS. That has no use in any PVP mode.

We do not have a decrease in players, we have a decrease in players on the BL maps and a Q 24/7 for EB now with people choosing to stand at the bank waiting in LA than step foot on the BL till their Q pops. Yes that is the new maps fault.

We actually do have a decrease. There used to be players that would spend hours upgrading and defending the bl, and there were roamers/havok on the bl’s to oppose them. Now when I log on and check my friends list those players are all offline, doing pvp, or something.

Without those players to initiate the action on the bl’s you are left with what we have now…. Empty bl’s that occasionally get k-trained.

EB has always been a hit while also being the only one of it’s kind.
Anet overdid it with EoTM and DBL.. The map isn’t the star, the combat and openness is. Stonemist is one of a kind in the game even though it’s seen more fights than any other spot on any map.

Tuck the home keeps even further to the side, surround them with towers that need to be taken first.. And basically give us reskinned SMC. You’ll have a hit guaranteed.

Oh, and really limit falling to your death. Skyhammer, EoTM and DBL all have this in common as a feature. Take the hint already

Commander is far away from a WP on a map:

EBG: Use a WP or make a run in about a minute

Alpine Map: Use a WP or make a run in about a minute

Deserted Map: Jump to the map, see the commander is far away, realize the run is at least three minutes often through annoying PvE mobs/gimmicks, check EBG queue, queue is still 50 deep so make the run, hit barricade, back track, oops cliff, back track, ah crap PvE aggro, ugghhh, almost there, stone barricades popping up, grrrrr, finally made it, crap… commander ported to another map

Jayne.9251:

lil devils x.6071:

… maybe they should do a poll when you log into WvW to put it to a vote.

That would be the smart thing to do, instead of relying on the forums.

But it’d have to be people who log into WvW on a regular basis. Say it counts up the hours you spent in a given week, then a poll comes up if you pass a threshold?

At least then you would have a reasonable chance of getting educated feedback.

That would target those who only enjoy it, I have the vast majority of my game time in WvW, actually I’d say my guild does, since the new maps I’d be classified as not a WvW player. I suppose my server would seeing as we’re a T1 that doesn’t have a single queue for the borderlands anymore at anytime of day. EB does though.

Catalin.5341:

You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.

• A new expansion has come with big promises to wvw and people are still disappointed which can be a reason for not playing.
• Also you need to grind a lot for your guild and I know one guild that only does WvW and since the expansion was out they do more farming in PVE than ever to rush to the +5 supply upgrade of the guild.
• The new maps are challenging for commanders cause they need to go solo for 4-6 hours and figure out the map and then start leading people. But most don’t do this and they just follow the roads and end up in dead-ends, fall off high cliffs and die, get stuck in barricades, etc. So commanders blame the map for their incompetence and followers blame it too cause that’s the easiest thing to do.
• Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.

Absolute nonsense.

• There are not enough players to find good fights in that large of a map most days of the week, even in tier 1 servers. That map should have been an EBG replacement, if anything. It is too huge and, more annoyingly, there is too much terrain that cannot be traversed directly that is blocking players from encountering each other, even if they want to fight. My first ten times in the borderlands I couldn’t even find people, and I was actively taking small objectives. You know, roaming. Which was easy to do in the old BLs. In these new ones you can solo towers and no one shows up. If it didn’t take an annoyingly long time to do it, it would even be worth it. But it’s not.

• Even knowing how to get somewhere, it still takes longer. Again, the map itself is bigger. Even if it were a straight line, which is it not, it would take longer; especially since people don’t sit around and wait for others to catch up most of the time, because it didn’t used to be that big an issue. They’re moving and traveling around giant, impassable terrain. This creates another problem: uneven fights. It takes longer to get their, so fights are shorter (more boring) because not as many people are actually in the fight to begin with due to the horrific map design.

• Speaking of terrain, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Almost all of it isn’t good for fighting around, contrary to what you said, because you can’t even get a line of sight on the people you fight half the time. That makes fighting worse, not better, because it turns into an AoE farm on the choke points. The whole poorly-designed map is practically a giant choke point. “Guys, I see movement! DROP SKILL-LESS AOE NOW!” Woo, such great content there. We certainly needed more of that. o.o And if you’re talking about different levels of terrain, you know even less than I thought. Because no experienced commander (a lot of them) takes a fight when they have the high ground. They get AoE’d and pulled off of the edge in chunks, all while they don’t have line of sight because of the edge of whatever they are standing on is covered in AoEs (hooray, more AoE choke farm). It’s like sitting on a wall in a keep. Fighting there is stupid. Even casual WvW players know not to stand on a keep wall. It’s the same principle. So yes, it is poorly designed and you should learn more about why before you start rattling off the praises and calling everyone else, the ones who obviously actually play, bad.

Only people who don’t know anything about how WvW (or sPvP) on this game actually works thinks this content is good. It’s not.

Chemical Rush.2569 and Catalin.5341:

Funny how both of u are righ, it is actually a combination of all those problems that leaded to the actualy wvw state.

Less QQ and learn the map.
DONE

Catalin.5341:

Less QQ and learn the map.
DONE

If i just repeat the same thing over and over it will become true…

Catalin.5341:

You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.
[…]

• Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.

What? Are you for real? Sorry if this information is true on SFR… It seems sad to me. EB is a great map on its own, it is what we call it the Pugland (pick up group land). It is an easy map with a lot of structures to run in if you get caught pants down. Usually there is a pugmander running the blob and that’s about it. On the other hand, a vast majority of the guilds were fighting in Alpine BL along with all the defense players trying to keep their structure (Alpine total PPT was higher than your corner of EB, any defenders knows that). EB is usually 1 big blob running around. Alpine was the backbone of WvW where you had your defense team in your BL, you usually had 1 or 2 ‘’for the fights’’ guilds running around in your home BL fighting off the enemmy guilds while you had even some more guilds fighting it off on the enemmy BL’s. Remember those defenders that did the callout in map chat in every map because your T3 garrison was being rushed? Those were the best fights I had in my history with GW2. SM fights usually just end up in a 3way and the lag fest that is involved cut the fun those massive fights could of been.

I do believe one of the major factor of the WvW population decrease is indeed the Desert borderland taking the Alpine BL place.