Guys, settle down seriously. Anet did not alter a matchup because some guy on the forums asked them to, ok, stop being ridiculous and stop kidding yourselves. They did this because glicko is a fundamentally flawed matchmaking system that can be very slow to adapt to changes in matchups.
Riiiiiight, they have been keeping an eye on YB and decided they need to be in t2 right now because they were absolutely wrecking t3, suuuure. When’s this happening for EU again? Hmmm, I’m sure FA was the server that needed to be in t3 this week. Uhhhh huh. Who’s being the ridiculous one here?
I’m looking forward to Anet adjusting FA’s glicko rating so we don’t stay in T3. It been sayed.
So, now that it has happened…how are SoS and SBI enjoying being steamrolled by FA now?
I’m SBI and its great! Reset was awesome. I stayed on way longer than normal.
FA does not have as many people as YB from what I can tell. Sure they’re going to beat us but it’ll be a much better week.
Hey everyone,
We adjusted Yak’s Bend rating by +150 so they would move out of tier 3.
Do you guys ever reflect on how you tend to only reward those who complain loudly with selfish requests?
I mean not to downplay yb’s position or anything…but they were asking for 1 server to get preferential fidgeting on the almighty untouchable glicko. I mean…that is HUGE that you granted this server request when there are countless others asking for the same thing. You didn’t even give a reason why yb out of all the servers was granted this…its like all the other grants you give off these forums.
You might consider giving a more inclusive reason for granting the request so people don’t feel you are rewarding the loudest most selfish requests….might help try to delude people into thinking you grant community requests on an argument basis rather than….I can only say selfish and loud so many times. Would that not be wise?
Like here is just an idea for a better response off the top of my head:
“Upon reviewing community arguments, and crosschecking with our own data, we have decided to move YB up 150 points out of tier 3 in order to to provide better matchups for the rest of the servers.”
Just a thought.
So people always get on here and say Anet never listens to the players. Anet then listens to the players. You get on here and complain that Anet listened to the players???
(edited by Johje Holan.4607)
Hey everyone,
We adjusted Yak’s Bend rating by +150 so they would move out of tier 3.
Do you guys ever reflect on how you tend to only reward those who complain loudly with selfish requests?
I mean not to downplay yb’s position or anything…but they were asking for 1 server to get preferential fidgeting on the almighty untouchable glicko. I mean…that is HUGE that you granted this server request when there are countless others asking for the same thing. You didn’t even give a reason why yb out of all the servers was granted this…its like all the other grants you give off these forums.
You might consider giving a more inclusive reason for granting the request so people don’t feel you are rewarding the loudest most selfish requests….might help try to delude people into thinking you grant community requests on an argument basis rather than….I can only say selfish and loud so many times. Would that not be wise?
Like here is just an idea for a better response off the top of my head:
“Upon reviewing community arguments, and crosschecking with our own data, we have decided to move YB up 150 points out of tier 3 in order to to provide better matchups for the rest of the servers.”
Just a thought.
So people always get on here and say Anet never listens to the players. Anet then listens to the players. You get on here and complain that Anet listened to the players???
You really need to read the things you quote. Its about who and what you listen too….nobody else had a problem understanding that.
Here I’ll give you an example: a game has 100 players, there are many problems with the game and the players are divided into 10 servers. Each of the servers complain on the forums and to community support outlets to get the creators to fix their individual problems. These individual problems however are not granted because their solutions negatively affect the other 9 servers.
One day a developer looks at a posting 1 server posted and decided to fix their problems at the expense of that other 9 servers. Now they have made 10 people happy, but 90 people are now negatively affected.
The game listened to the players as you stated. ANd we should all be happy about that as you stated. So lets be happy.
I’ll give you an easier example: lets say 10% of the players wanted desert bl as all 3 borderlands, 90% wanted alpine. The 10% posted the loudest and most selfish requests, and the developer granted their request.
Now according to your argument: They listened to the people and we should all be happy. So lets be happy.
TL:DR: So ya I got on here and complained that anet listened to “some” players at the expense of “others”. Can ya follow that reasoning? I can dumb it down even more if need be.
If they really cared about making the game balanced for all servers they would delete the glicko and repick the tiers every week or so to find the most balanced tiers possible. That way winning, and having won does not matter anymore, and the future of all servers can be a part of the same vision….rather than half of them having to be dragged through the mudd all the time. But no, they keep the glicko and one day they come along and say “hey why is Yb one of the servers being dragged through the mudd with these plebs? Come here buddy….lets get u cleaned up so you can start riding on the ponies with the cool servers.”. And you expect everyone, in the mudd or on the other ponies, to stop start CHEEERING ecstatically that their peer has been freed from pleb status….meanwhile everyone has to deal with more mudd and more horse skritt because of it.
(edited by Cerby.1069)
So, now that it has happened…how are SoS and SBI enjoying being steamrolled by FA now?
Eh, SoS wouldn’t know because they got punted into t4 as a side effect. Bu hey, anything better than having every tower and even camps loaded with siege.
Just as a reality check, YB barely sieged up anything last week, for the obvious reason that most of the time there was minimal risk of anything getting attacked much less taken. Towards the end of the week, when neither SoS nor SBI seemed interesting in defending (for perfectly sound, logical reasons) there was a point at which Commanders were barely bothering to place offensive siege either because the zergs were just PvDing through the paper gates anyway.
I’m sure we’ll get right back on our arrow carts this week thanks to ANet’s deus ex machina intervention.
Yah, I realized they weren’t sieging that hard for one week! Yes I know everyone fell asleep halfway during the matchup. Grats. But it doesn’t matter since relatively speaking FA is just a better match for t3 atm since YB was running away by this time and YB is holding strong in t2 as well for now. I’m guessing it’s boring for them maybe but what can you do? t3/t4 is screwed and now whatever server gets stuck down here has to whine to get their way back up. Seems fine in the end.
It’s okay though. I’m sure the people wanting variety are going to not log on for the rest of the week anyways.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
Look at the scores for all 4 tiers. No one is getting blown out. Mag is competitive in T1, YB is competitive in T2.
For all the complaining we do this was a good idea. They learned from the CD T4 fiasco last link and took action sooner. Isn’t action what you want, people?
For all the complaining we do this was a good idea. They learned from the CD T4 fiasco last link and took action sooner. Isn’t action what you want, people?
By this logic, DB should have had their glicko rating adjusted downward and Mag’s rating should have been adjusted upward two weeks ago. Anytime a server gets stacked or has a large number of players leave, Anet should manually adjust the glicko rating. That will help to foster a sense of fair and competitive play. /sarcasm
(edited by Chaba.5410)
So now ppt cancers cry in the forum to anet to put them in front of other servers and anet complies? I don’t find this fair to the server that droped… There is a reason tier 3 is know for the garbage can of the try hard cancer ppt servers, don’t open it because it smells…
I’m looking forward to Anet adjusting FA’s glicko rating so we don’t stay in T3. It been sayed.
Yes anet why did you do this ramdom thing? Can you also cut maguma in half because they have the population of 3 servers and they still are open?
Why did you even think this is fair for FA?
Now tier 3 is even worse FA is far better than yaksbend, the other servers are getting destroyed, meanwile in tier 2 we are watching yaksbend running away from fights and pvdoor backcapping stuff. They don’t belong in tier 2… What were you thinking ANET?
All the above posters say they prefer FA than YB. SoS/SBI players are the ones that asked for YB to be moved up and not YB that asked to be moved.
what does FA have to do with this? Anet need to fix this and fire that person who did it
Now tier 3 is even worse FA is far better than yaksbend, the other servers are getting destroyed, meanwile in tier 2 we are watching yaksbend running away from fights and pvdoor backcapping stuff. They don’t belong in tier 2… What were you thinking ANET?
Pull FA back up and throw DB down to T3. There, we’ve fixed T3 and T2.
what does FA have to do with this? Anet need to fix this and fire that person who did it
FA was the lowest T2 server, so they were the most likely to be moved… If FA was in a better position, it would be other server that would be moved. but when a server don’t win a matchup in months and is placed last in most of them, they are likely to move down sooner or later… FA lasted longer than expected considering their recent performances in T2.
Yaksbend was even lower both in theory and in glico so why is this even fair? Now every time someone comes here crying about losing anet comes and give them victory?
It opens a precedent and now ANET needs to comply on future random complains if it keeps this decision…
Fix this ANET or we riot
Who did lose and Anet gave them victory? Are you crazy? The people that asked for this intervention (SBI/SoS) were losing and they are still losing (SoS isn’t on T3 but is losing T4 atm). Are you so mad that FA is on T3 that you can’t even read?
I’m mad because this random stuff now can happen to any server
At this point YB is stronger then YB in terms of pure PPT, YB would of had at least one keep on each bl t3 and the a south tower and both borderlands would be there color, in terms of fighting FA is better that being said YB is the stronger of the two servers, with the return of DK, and all the recent xfers
In my opinion anet made a good choice, it sucks that FA suffered from it use this chance to prove you belong in T2 like YB did and maybe they will adjust you up and DB will move down because at this rate FA will only lose glicko
(edited by QuickRain.4735)
If Yaksbend gets back on tier 3 next week, what anet will do? Give them more glico????
YB will prob not be back next week, with FA losing its glicko right not and them gaining a ton from DB
But if they do they have a legit chance to go back the following week
(edited by QuickRain.4735)
That’s not the point, it’s about justice
I’m mad because this random stuff now can happen to any server
No, you are mad because it happened to FA. When the same think happened to SBI and YB last pairing (when CD glicko was inflated) I didn’t see you posting here on the forums complaining that “it could happen to any server”.
It seens to me that your “Justice” is selective…
Step outside your biases and server location folks. Anet manually adjusted CD first, adjusting YB is just a continuation of that trend. Unless you made the same arguments when CD was adjusted then you’re being inconsistent.
Personally I don’t think Anet should be manually adjusting glicko. At best it will sometimes make things better, sometimes worse, but always at the price of someone else. And it will deny players/servers the agency of deciding the fate of those servers.
But until they get a more responsive glicko system(which is going to require a partial or full glicko reset/redesign) in place it is the only way they can help manage some of the imbalanced tiers and server match-ups that exist and are causing players to spend less time in WvW.
what does FA have to do with this? Anet need to fix this and fire that person who did it
FA was the lowest T2 server, so they were the most likely to be moved… If FA was in a better position, it would be other server that would be moved. but when a server don’t win a matchup in months and is placed last in most of them, they are likely to move down sooner or later… FA lasted longer than expected considering their recent performances in T2.
DB has started it’s free fall and they are the ones who may end up in t3, they’ve lost a good amount of NA guilds. Given some time FA could have sucked glicko ratings from DB, but hey guess who’s doing that now.
FA has fought for it’s t2 standings for years now, they’ve made visits to t3, but it’s not fair to that server to get chucked to t3 because some ppt idiots couldn’t deal with YB for another week. If they get a bad roll and head down to t3, fine they’ll suck it up, they have in the past, but because someone decided to push another server ahead of them from t3? That’s very unfair to FA.
They pushed glicko ratings on the previous monster of t4 and in fact all 3 servers there got a boost, fine go ahead, that mess was create by anet in the first place by creating four t3 servers, they needed to clean it up and get them rotated after a month of sitting and destroying t4.
This was not going to be the case now, YB could have gained enough and DB could have lost enough to switch eventually.
If you are going to manually move servers with glicko boost then you kitten well should start fixing glicko, instead of taking personal request from players to move servers. Now the devs are fixing the teams and matches.
Hey can we setup a plan ahead for next week, switch FA with DB, thanks guys you da best! xoxoxoxoxoxox
(edited by Xenesis.6389)
you didn’t complain about CD gaining you? If not your justice is irrelevant
what does FA have to do with this? Anet need to fix this and fire that person who did it
Every thing because when one gets to go up off a whim of a dev another will drop and if FA dose not blow out this week then they will fall badly and the other 2 groups will go up much higher then they should. Odds are the long turn repression is effectively killing FA wvw for a few weeks now. FA is a major fights server not a ppt and they worked hard to get to that point. A lot of fights are going one way (see k/d going crazy) but the endless bunkering is simply not fun to deal with so it is NOT dealt with.
It may be fun for sbi etc.. but its not fun for fa it feels like every one on the other 2 teams are all on up-level.
Go back to cancer forums your place isn’t here
Ran out of arguments and decided to attack me instead of discussing the current event? Seriously buddy, go take a chill pill. You are stressing yourself over somenthing meaningless… Rank, tier? Why does it matter if you can log and have fun? Honestly, I would take the current FA matchup over the one YB is atm… JQ/DB are SEA heavy with little NA and that’s boring to fight against.
DB has started it’s free fall and they are the ones who may end up in t3, they’ve lost a good amount of NA guilds. Given some time FA could have sucked glicko ratings from DB, but hey guess who’s doing that now.
FA has fought for it’s t2 standings for years now, they’ve made visits to t3, but it’s not fair to that server to get chucked to t3 because some ppt idiots couldn’t deal with YB for another week. If they get a bad roll and head down to t3, fine they’ll suck it up, they have in the past, but because someone decided to push another server ahead of them from t3? That’s very unfair to FA.
They pushed glicko ratings on the previous monster of t4 and in fact all 3 servers there got a boost, fine go ahead, that mess was create by anet in the first place by creating four t3 servers, they needed to clean it up and get them rotated after a month of sitting and destroying t4.
This was not going to be the case now, YB could have gained enough and DB could have lost enough to switch eventually.
If you are going to manually move servers with glicko boost then you kitten well should start fixing glicko, instead of taking personal request from players to move servers. Now the devs are fixing the teams and matches.
Hey can we setup a plan ahead for next week, switch FA with DB, thanks guys you da best! xoxoxoxoxoxox
Yes, I agree that DB problably would be much fitting to be in T3 than FA, but they still have too much glicko to lose and might take some time. Also, YB already had around 2% chance of rolling this matchup (just like FA rolled T1 last week). If you put aside the fact that Arena Net admited manual intervention, what would you say if FA had rolled T3? “kitten you Arena Net for putting us on T3” is the first thing that comes to my mind. Oh wait, it’s already what this dude is doing…
you didn’t complain about CD gaining you? If not your justice is irrelevant
No because that link was badly done, and players complained for more than a month because there was also a 300 point glicko wall between t3 and t4, they were going to be stuck with that match for 2 months because CD restarted as a host and had a low rating to begin. Also to refresh your memory, all 3 servers gained a glicko boost when it happened.
Now go look at the ratings for t2 and t3, YB was already on the verge of breaking into t2. One person comes in here and requests YB gets a boost to get them out of t3, it didn’t even get out of page 1 of discussions and it happened. Never mind how that affects the other server taking their place.
What’s next on the slope?
Yes, I agree that DB problably would be much fitting to be in T3 than FA, but they still have too much glicko to lose and might take some time. Also, YB already had around 2% chance of rolling this matchup (just like FA rolled T1 last week). If you put aside the fact that Arena Net admited manual intervention, what would you say if FA had rolled T3? “kitten you Arena Net for putting us on T3” is the first thing that comes to my mind. Oh wait, it’s already what this dude is doing…
I would have said nothing because it was done by the system, they would have gotten a bad roll, like what has happened many times in the past. Did I come in here and complain about FA rolling t1? nope.
This was a manual displacement of a server because one person comes in here asking for them to move a server they don’t like playing against.
BTW I don’t care for FA, I’ve had a hatred of them from back in the TC/SoS/FA wars, always playing for second style. Doesn’t mean what was done to them was fair.
Hell why don’t we just save everyone some trouble next relink anet should link them with 2 servers! and plop them in t1!.
I seriously doubt they did it cause one person requested it, im sure it was cause Anet had Devs running about on all 3 servers which was partially proven in the video that someone posted the other day, to me its seem Anet actually took an aggressive approach this time, since they sent Devs to each t3 server and took on site reports
you didn’t complain about CD gaining you? If not your justice is irrelevant
Does it matter? sV is moving to SoS. It has been sayed….
(edited by Mikeybalz.2089)
you didn’t complain about CD gaining you? If not your justice is irrelevant
Does it matter? sV is moving to SoS. It has been sayed….
They already moved.
FA lasted longer than expected considering their recent performances in T2.
Yes, good job there. Fighting against a server better fit for T1 (i.e. Mag) and another server with a weak NA presence. Clearly Mag’s glicko rating should have been adjusted upwards far earlier to get them out of T2 faster so that FA didn’t roll T1 last week. /sarcasm
(edited by Chaba.5410)
well tbh Chaba FA was fighting a t1 reject and mag at one point
Almost I don’t know how that rumor came to be but we are not going sos
unless I get like a couple eternities
the real issue here is no glicko reset / partial reset on re-linking…. CD/YB was out of whack last time…. YB, Mag, DB this time.
Without glicko reset, expect a manual adjustment after the next re-link is messed up as well…..
Personally I don’t think Anet should be manually adjusting glicko.
And it will deny players/servers the agency of deciding the fate of those servers.
Ah, someone with a head on their shoulders…
Now wait a minute, we still have player agency in this new scheme. Simply mass-transfer to a server and Anet will adjust the rating upward. /sarcasm
wait timeout…that’s a different guild , look man you got the wrong one
the real issue here is no glicko reset / partial reset on re-linking…. CD/YB was out of whack last time…. YB, Mag, DB this time.
And everyone here bringing up CD, remember the reason for that T3/T4 cliff in the first place was the 2 month old frozen glicko ratings on those T4 servers because nothing was done to merge the pre-server link frozen ratings with those servers performance as linked servers during the linking beta. I recall early before the server linking was first tried Anet was asked what they are going to do about the ratings of servers that get linked. The answer was along the lines of they “are still thinking about what to do.”
(edited by Chaba.5410)
If it is determined a reset at re-link is best, what would make the most sense? Most simplistic is everyone has the same number. Off the top of my head, it may make more sense to assign say 2000 to server 1, and then -25 (or some number) to the next server and so on and so forth. This would hopefully prevent the BG/NSP match from the start, but numbers would be close enough that the new link would rise/fall into their natural position more quickly.
Just a thought anyway…
well tbh Chaba FA was fighting a T2 staple and mag at one point
Almost I don’t know how that rumor came to be but we are not going sos
unless I get like a couple eternities
Fixed.
We need that simple one-up/one-down ladder…things would move much more quickly and account for the rapid changes in populations due to new linkings and due to transfers.
The problem Sylvyn is that it creates too many lopsided matches. JQ and FA can barely deal with T1, and T3 can barely deal with anybody from T2. It’s a huge gap between server pops and skill, and a 1-up/1-down ladder would only highlight that worse.
So people always get on here and say Anet never listens to the players. Anet then listens to the players. You get on here and complain that Anet listened to the players???
You really need to read the things you quote. Its about who and what you listen too….nobody else had a problem understanding that.
Here I’ll give you an example: a game has 100 players, there are many problems with the game and the players are divided into 10 servers. Each of the servers complain on the forums and to community support outlets to get the creators to fix their individual problems. These individual problems however are not granted because their solutions negatively affect the other 9 servers.
One day a developer looks at a posting 1 server posted and decided to fix their problems at the expense of that other 9 servers. Now they have made 10 people happy, but 90 people are now negatively affected.The game listened to the players as you stated. ANd we should all be happy about that as you stated. So lets be happy.
I’ll give you an easier example: lets say 10% of the players wanted desert bl as all 3 borderlands, 90% wanted alpine. The 10% posted the loudest and most selfish requests, and the developer granted their request.
Now according to your argument: They listened to the people and we should all be happy. So lets be happy.TL:DR: So ya I got on here and complained that anet listened to “some” players at the expense of “others”. Can ya follow that reasoning? I can dumb it down even more if need be.
If they really cared about making the game balanced for all servers they would delete the glicko and repick the tiers every week or so to find the most balanced tiers possible. That way winning, and having won does not matter anymore, and the future of all servers can be a part of the same vision….rather than half of them having to be dragged through the mudd all the time. But no, they keep the glicko and one day they come along and say “hey why is Yb one of the servers being dragged through the mudd with these plebs? Come here buddy….lets get u cleaned up so you can start riding on the ponies with the cool servers.”. And you expect everyone, in the mudd or on the other ponies, to stop start CHEEERING ecstatically that their peer has been freed from pleb status….meanwhile everyone has to deal with more mudd and more horse skritt because of it.
I read what you wrote. I guess it was you’re first paragraph’s tone and hyperbole that prompted my response. But I guess that’s just how you are given your response to me. And you can’t really think Anet made the adjustment just because of one post.
They listened to the players because we have been saying for years that one of the worst things in WvW is to get stuck in a match where you don’t belong. Its bad for you, bad for your opponents, bad for the game. And that Glicko responds too slowly. If they’re not going to change the matchmaking then Anet should make manual adjustments more often, not less.
In fact, I have been in favor of Anet completely manually making the matches for a long time. A human being can create better matches, more consistently than Glicko and RNG. But I guess I see why they haven’t done that, people come on here and complain about favoritism and it not being fair.
As for your examples, they are exaggerated and ridiculous. And not relevant to what happened. I can see why people from FA are upset. But the rhetoric in this thread is out of hand.
Anet did the right thing. And I applaud them for it. I would be in favor of them lowering DB’s rating next week so that they come down and FA can go back up (as I said above, I’d prefer them just manually make it happen). And we’ll see what happens. I agree FA shouldn’t get stuck in T3.
As others have said in this thread the problem is Glicko and how its used to make the matches. And the faults with this have been enhanced with the linking system. Matchmaking needs to be changed. Heck if its too much trouble to come up with a new system, just go to 1U1D. That should be easy to program.
(edited by Johje Holan.4607)
I love how invested people are after four years.
I’d also like to point out that investment is to the server.
I love how invested people are after four years.
I’d also like to point out that investment is to the server.
Well ya that what wvw is for an investment to your world. Shame that it was changed on a whim like this.
If i was on FA i would riot hard over this, all the time invested on your server affected with a thing like this… shame ANET you are a shame probably you killed FA server community over a stupid injustice like this, i would quit the game because of this… i hope you stay strong…
Please, it’s not that bad, you’ll be back up here in no time FA. DB will replace you, and we’ll end up with the eternal JQ/YB/FA matchup until the next linkage…which may still keep the tier set.
If i was on FA i would riot hard over this, all the time invested on your server affected with a thing like this… shame ANET you are a shame probably you killed FA server community over a stupid injustice like this, i would quit the game because of this… i hope you stay strong…
Anet didnt kill any server ok, FA rolled this matchup due to glicko RNG, same as last week when they rolled a tier 1 matchup. They were not forcibily dropped down to make room for YB in t2. YB was stuck in t3 steamrolling the other 2 servers, for them to move out would have taken weeks. To avoid this Anet sped up the process by giving them the glicko needed to make it possible to roll a better more equal matchup. “Glicko Hell” can keep servers stuck in matchups where there is not enough competition, but due to the slow nature of glicko to compensate and adapt properly to changes on servers and in matchups it can take weeks or even months to allow a server to move up or down, resulting in many unbalanced matchups.
All anet did was speed up the process so players did not get stuck with weeks of blowout matches in t3. Try learning the mechanics, instead of throwing out ridiculous accusations and insults.
The problem Sylvyn is that it creates too many lopsided matches. JQ and FA can barely deal with T1, and T3 can barely deal with anybody from T2. It’s a huge gap between server pops and skill, and a 1-up/1-down ladder would only highlight that worse.
Best point so far. The tier matches are all blow outs. Shift around all you want anet, it’s not working.
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