Guild Wars 2

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Junkpile.7439:

If you play eyes open you don’t need stability at all.

But I suffer from narcolepsy and fall asleep every few seconds so I end up running through all the cc instead of going around it. Before stab changed, I could fall asleep for up to a minute but I had stab so I was still alive when I woke back up

morrolan.9608:

Tongku.5326:

Chaba.5410:

Stab was meant to be countered with boon stripping, boon corruption, and soft ccs, not hard ccs.

For WVW AOE boon strips are just too weak and too infrequent to accomplish this. In addition soft CCs do not work because they can also be removed by non stop AOE cleanse spam since they are mostly conditions, and in many cases you don’t even need that, jsut have enough -condi duration on you to bring duration of soft CC under 1 tick to be completely immune to it.

The 2 things above is what made stab in its original form stupid OP when added into any build.

if they buff stab, it will jsut be the other extreme, they need to rebalance the above in order to buff stab its somewhat in the middle.

I don’t recall there being too many complaints or problems with the old stab. Stab was applied, necros stripped or corrupted it, eles cc’d the enemy then the groups clashed. If you were co-ordinated well enough the boon stripping and corruption lasted long enough to do its job. And groups were evenly balanced.

I for one always had a problem with 1 lazy button nullifying every and all cc for way too long. It was way too efficient a boon. WAY too much for the effort involved.

Even as we speak, I honestly do not see such a huge problem with ccs (and I’m super squishy and targeted a lot) unless you refuse to change your play style and blindly rush to your enemies.

That being said, I do admit it went overboard and a better balance is needed for some profession regarding that topic. As an ele main we do have options that make us less vulnerable to ccs ( enough good stun breaks and self stab + teleport). One part of the game is about control and it should never be so easily dismissed and dependent on a necro being with you.

morrolan.9608:

Tongku.5326:

Chaba.5410:

Stab was meant to be countered with boon stripping, boon corruption, and soft ccs, not hard ccs.

For WVW AOE boon strips are just too weak and too infrequent to accomplish this. In addition soft CCs do not work because they can also be removed by non stop AOE cleanse spam since they are mostly conditions, and in many cases you don’t even need that, jsut have enough -condi duration on you to bring duration of soft CC under 1 tick to be completely immune to it.

The 2 things above is what made stab in its original form stupid OP when added into any build.

if they buff stab, it will jsut be the other extreme, they need to rebalance the above in order to buff stab its somewhat in the middle.

I don’t recall there being too many complaints or problems with the old stab. Stab was applied, necros stripped or corrupted it, eles cc’d the enemy then the groups clashed. If you were co-ordinated well enough the boon stripping and corruption lasted long enough to do its job. And groups were evenly balanced.

Hmm, I recall GWEN meta and mad amount of nothing but hammertrains for the 1st year or year and a half of the game, I was a part of that meta running guard, necro, war purely and exactly because of the old stab. Being completely invulnreable and literally laughing at CCs and condis completely negating a vast majority of builds.

If you are new to the game, just hop on youtube, so many vids still around. There are even a couple going 5 vs map que. Personally I was never as good as those guys but I did manage to command 8 and 10 vs map que back in my day. In addition, to help you recall, please do a search on these very forum archives to see all the issues GWEN meta brought, stability and the lack of it by certain professions and the lack of counters to it as it was, will be right at the top. You just can’t miss it.

The 1st WVW exodus happened exactly and precisely because of this, because of so many classes / players being excluded from it. But at that time population was still strong enough to pick up the slack sort of speak. Now that there are too few new players coming in and couple with other issues.

Whatever the solution is it needs to be balanced and not go to those old ways, as that will just literally half of whatever you have left, CC and condi immune groups to me are worse then current ranged AOE spam groups.

Tongku.5326:

morrolan.9608:

Tongku.5326:

Chaba.5410:

Stab was meant to be countered with boon stripping, boon corruption, and soft ccs, not hard ccs.

For WVW AOE boon strips are just too weak and too infrequent to accomplish this. In addition soft CCs do not work because they can also be removed by non stop AOE cleanse spam since they are mostly conditions, and in many cases you don’t even need that, jsut have enough -condi duration on you to bring duration of soft CC under 1 tick to be completely immune to it.

The 2 things above is what made stab in its original form stupid OP when added into any build.

if they buff stab, it will jsut be the other extreme, they need to rebalance the above in order to buff stab its somewhat in the middle.

I don’t recall there being too many complaints or problems with the old stab. Stab was applied, necros stripped or corrupted it, eles cc’d the enemy then the groups clashed. If you were co-ordinated well enough the boon stripping and corruption lasted long enough to do its job. And groups were evenly balanced.

Hmm, I recall GWEN meta and mad amount of nothing but hammertrains for the 1st year or year and a half of the game, I was a part of that meta running guard, necro, war purely and exactly because of the old stab. Being completely invulnreable and literally laughing at CCs and condis completely negating a vast majority of builds.

If you are new to the game, just hop on youtube, so many vids still around. There are even a couple going 5 vs map que. Personally I was never as good as those guys but I did manage to command 8 and 10 vs map que back in my day. In addition, to help you recall, please do a search on these very forum archives to see all the issues GWEN meta brought, stability and the lack of it by certain professions and the lack of counters to it as it was, will be right at the top. You just can’t miss it.

The 1st WVW exodus happened exactly and precisely because of this, because of so many classes / players being excluded from it. But at that time population was still strong enough to pick up the slack sort of speak. Now that there are too few new players coming in and couple with other issues.

Whatever the solution is it needs to be balanced and not go to those old ways, as that will just literally half of whatever you have left, CC and condi immune groups to me are worse then current ranged AOE spam groups.

There was no mass exodus due to GWEN meta.

There was however a mass exodus due to the stability changes.

If certain classes weren’t used much, then thats a balance issue, not a stability issue.

Dano.5298:

If certain classes weren’t used much, then thats a balance issue, not a stability issue.

Then the game has never been balanced Look at pvp, there are always classes left out.

to me stability became a problem only when the numbers grow, i noticed after 20 people stability ends in nothing, in a no mean boon.
This often translate in a melee charge stopped before even getting in melee range.
But the real problem is not the amount of CC, but the fact that stability that should be a counter of CC is in fact countered… by CC!!
Now if you add to this the fact that stability can even be boonstrip, you discover that stability is actualy the worst boon in the game XD XD. The paradox is, that aegis or a dodge can counter a CC better than stability.

I reccomend to revert the stability nerf while diminuishing the access to it from overall all the classes, or even better make stability a no boonstrippable boon.
To be clear, i disagree on boon strip to resistance and aegis too, i think the only boons that should be stripped are might, regeneration, fury, protection.
The reason? while those above said boons are giving you a clear advantage in fights, resistance and especialy stability are not giving you an advantage, are just …. giving you a chance to play XD XD.

Hard CC is OP in a game that depends on mobility.

The current play style of spamming CC and AOE conditions is repetitive and boring.

Tongku.5326:

Chaba.5410:

Stab was meant to be countered with boon stripping, boon corruption, and soft ccs, not hard ccs.

For WVW AOE boon strips are just too weak and too infrequent to accomplish this. In addition soft CCs do not work because they can also be removed by non stop AOE cleanse spam since they are mostly conditions, and in many cases you don’t even need that, jsut have enough -condi duration on you to bring duration of soft CC under 1 tick to be completely immune to it.

The problem wasn’t the old stab, but the weak access to boon strip/corruption. Guilds focused on zerg-busting and GvG invested in increasing condi-duration over boon stripping since chill/immob/cripple was far easier to continuously provide even with all the cleansing over boon stripping. That, of course, isn’t the case anymore with the buffs to necros.

Tongku.5326:

Hmm, I recall GWEN meta and mad amount of nothing but hammertrains for the 1st year or year and a half of the game, I was a part of that meta running guard, necro, war purely and exactly because of the old stab. Being completely invulnreable and literally laughing at CCs and condis completely negating a vast majority of builds.

If you are new to the game, just hop on youtube, so many vids still around. There are even a couple going 5 vs map que. Personally I was never as good as those guys but I did manage to command 8 and 10 vs map que back in my day. In addition, to help you recall, please do a search on these very forum archives to see all the issues GWEN meta brought, stability and the lack of it by certain professions and the lack of counters to it as it was, will be right at the top. You just can’t miss it.

The 1st WVW exodus happened exactly and precisely because of this, because of so many classes / players being excluded from it. But at that time population was still strong enough to pick up the slack sort of speak. Now that there are too few new players coming in and couple with other issues.

Whatever the solution is it needs to be balanced and not go to those old ways, as that will just literally half of whatever you have left, CC and condi immune groups to me are worse then current ranged AOE spam groups.

Been playing WvW since beta mainly on ele in WvW. There was no exodus due to the stab, it was apparent within a year how poor anet’s support of the game was. Groups were largely even between melee and ranged, yes they were gwen but that was due to individual class abilities not stab. Glamor mes would have been part of the meta if anet hadn’t stupidly kowtowed to the whingers and nerfed confusion that first time. glamor mesmers were the perfect zerg busting spec and anet ruined it. And you know its changed a bit bit but the meta is still limited. Revenant has changed it a bit but revenant would have worked under the old stab and been in the meta.

So depressing when people come to the forums to complain that the old stab was too powerful because a small group could take down a large group. You whiners are responsible for removing the incentive for coordinated, skilled gameplay from wvw and replacing it with this mindless pirate ship meta. Happy now? If a 5-man group killed your whole zerg, it is because they were better than you. Last time I checked, we all have equal access to builds.

Osu.6307:

So depressing when people come to the forums to complain that the old stab was too powerful because a small group could take down a large group. You whiners are responsible for removing the incentive for coordinated, skilled gameplay from wvw and replacing it with this mindless pirate ship meta. Happy now? If a 5-man group killed your whole zerg, it is because they were better than you. Last time I checked, we all have equal access to builds.

Players are responsible for the pirate ship meta because many think you can not push without stab. Its time to learn to fake push so they blow their bombs first then push, bringing back portal bombs, double dodging the first push and hitting the backlines, veils to go around and flank, or cutting the zerg in half to get rid of some of the numbers. Instead people would rather stand around and range instead of coming up with some new tactics or I should say old tactics that not many use anymore..

Osu.6307:

So depressing when people come to the forums to complain that the old stab was too powerful because a small group could take down a large group. You whiners are responsible for removing the incentive for coordinated, skilled gameplay from wvw and replacing it with this mindless pirate ship meta. Happy now? If a 5-man group killed your whole zerg, it is because they were better than you. Last time I checked, we all have equal access to builds.

A lot of cheap accusations that avoid valid points on the topic. I love skilled game play myself and enjoy fighting as the numerical underdog but the boon was too good and easy to access while seriously crippling a third of the game mechanic (control). In many ways it was as problematic to cc heavy builds as diamond skin was for condi.

Beside, you kinda shoot yourself in the foot when you say you are better because you win despite having access to same resources… it is still true today so it beg the question, why don’t you have the same results today?

Again, I’m all for a boost in stab (more stacks) but not absolute immunity for as long as you have the boon no matter how many cc you faceroll because you can’t bother with a third of the game mechanic. Let’s work toward a sweet spot for stab and cc instead.

Argos Helios.4965:

They’ve shown they have the ability to separate skills between game modes (PvP, Pve)… This really needs to be done. The combat is just -not as fun- as it was 2 years ago. Skill groups are dead and now its all a boring blob numbers game.

Honestly if Anet reverted stability in WvW it would reduce the toxicity and lack of faith in these forums by 83%.

I’d say 83% might be a conservative estimate. And you are absolutely right that the stab nerf/rebalance killed skill groups. Pirate ship meta favors those with the most cannons.
Even though it took a lot of skill before to wipe a mapblob with a guild group it could be done. Guilds practiced this and many were very good at tackling larger, and sometimes, much larger groups.

Insert stab change: guild group heavy parties can’t disrupt like before, and are relegated to supporting the ranged / trying to fend off small charges by the blob’s heavies. Blob simply outputs too much CC/AoE for the guild group’s heavies to impact the fight in a meaningful way as they did before, as their stab is being ripped away too fast, permastun/immobilize/dead.

Too many players invested too much in their heavies for them to be relegated to buff/banner bots. The current meta, that ANet either overtly or covertly endorses with the decisions they have made, is not fun. It punishes aggression, and it encourages blobbing, which makes good fights hard to find and messy.

morrolan.9608:

Tongku.5326:

Hmm, I recall GWEN meta and mad amount of nothing but hammertrains for the 1st year or year and a half of the game, I was a part of that meta running guard, necro, war purely and exactly because of the old stab. Being completely invulnreable and literally laughing at CCs and condis completely negating a vast majority of builds.

If you are new to the game, just hop on youtube, so many vids still around. There are even a couple going 5 vs map que. Personally I was never as good as those guys but I did manage to command 8 and 10 vs map que back in my day. In addition, to help you recall, please do a search on these very forum archives to see all the issues GWEN meta brought, stability and the lack of it by certain professions and the lack of counters to it as it was, will be right at the top. You just can’t miss it.

The 1st WVW exodus happened exactly and precisely because of this, because of so many classes / players being excluded from it. But at that time population was still strong enough to pick up the slack sort of speak. Now that there are too few new players coming in and couple with other issues.

Whatever the solution is it needs to be balanced and not go to those old ways, as that will just literally half of whatever you have left, CC and condi immune groups to me are worse then current ranged AOE spam groups.

Been playing WvW since beta mainly on ele in WvW. There was no exodus due to the stab, it was apparent within a year how poor anet’s support of the game was. Groups were largely even between melee and ranged, yes they were gwen but that was due to individual class abilities not stab. Glamor mes would have been part of the meta if anet hadn’t stupidly kowtowed to the whingers and nerfed confusion that first time. glamor mesmers were the perfect zerg busting spec and anet ruined it. And you know its changed a bit bit but the meta is still limited. Revenant has changed it a bit but revenant would have worked under the old stab and been in the meta.

Indeed, I remember the glam mes, I played it for a bit as well, as for the exodus, I phrased myself wrong. I look at it as total loss of players from whatever reasons combined or seperate, and it wasnt so much the steady players that left, but that so many new players did and never ended up joining longterm after giving it a try due to the class / meta exclusion.

During the 1st WVW turney and like 3-4 weeks prior to it we were quing 3 out of 4 maps and had anywhere from 160ish to 300ish people on TS and this was what at that time was a T6-T5 server, and we got all our PVE players to hop on and join us.

Many stayed, but too many left, wayyyyyy too many. I was one of the people doing the recruiting, the organization, etc. so I remember it exactly and have my numbers down as well. In my guild alone there were about 200ish active players that would have stayed in WVW or played it more often if not for that. Then add all the other guilds that were there.

I find the biggest problem with Stability is it doesn’t work with immobilize which is clearly by definition a control effect.Its set as a condition but should be a control effect.
It’s way over used in WvW to the point that a person can be locked down indefinitely. Even though it says only 3 seconds it gets re stacked every 3 seconds because of the massive immobilize bombs.No body can carry that amount of stability or condition removal to counter it.

Junkpile.7439:

If you play eyes open you don’t need stability at all.

This. I never really seen the need for stability if I could bring stunbreaks and react when needed. On many classes I don’t struggle to find usable stunbreaks, and they often have options to spec them as condi clear making the skills uses twofold.

For me having stability always meant I didn’t need to use one of my stunbreaks skills upfront but I eventually would and would expect too.

I think to many people want this free ignore cc card. Which isnt what stability is supposed to be; it is a small brief grace period via buff, that can be stripped, corrupted, worn down instantly.

Maybe our outlook is a product of poor stability.

Mitz.5741:

BlueBoy.1236:

Argos Helios.4965:

Honestly if Anet reverted stability in WvW it would reduce the toxicity and lack of faith in these forums by 83%.

But it would bring the old problem back again. Whoever can maintain perma stab will get the upper hand aka the heavy frontline meta.

The only solution I can think of for this stab problem is separating skills between wvw, pvp and pve. Or making someone’s immune to cc for a few secs after casting stunbreaker

Between Dh traps, CoR, Mesmer wells(making ppl invulnerable),true shot and gunflame i doubt it’ll be as big of a problem as it was back then

The Mesmer Well of Precognition was already fixed with the last balance upgrade. Mesmers are already used to stuff like that, but imagine the outcry of Dragon Hunters if their traps were nerfed.

Or they could, you know, roll it back to the way it used to work – which worked and worked on a logic – before the game’s collective CoR spammers decided to campaign against “them elitist guilds” and instated this environment that no one wants to command in, leaving us all for worse over time.

It is rather pointless to build an exhaustive list of work-arounds for a rather simple fix. Then again, considering how Anet adressed combat-ressing and other related issues, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them take you up on your duct-tape approach .

Mokk.2397:

I find the biggest problem with Stability is it doesn’t work with immobilize which is clearly by definition a control effect.Its set as a condition but should be a control effect.
It’s way over used in WvW to the point that a person can be locked down indefinitely. Even though it says only 3 seconds it gets re stacked every 3 seconds because of the massive immobilize bombs.No body can carry that amount of stability or condition removal to counter it.

Immob and fear are tricky, as they are mechanically speaking control effects but not listed kitten. This is for good reason I think, because immob is a good counter versus stability spam. Immob was even buffed to help out (imo, reflecting upon it) versus massive stab stacking.

Junkpile.7439:

If you play eyes open you don’t need stability at all.

Factor in lag, even a small amount, plus the number of players in a big fight, plus the visual effects still obscuring much of a fight………….

Eval.2371:

Junkpile.7439:

If you play eyes open you don’t need stability at all.

This. I never really seen the need for stability if I could bring stunbreaks and react when needed. On many classes I don’t struggle to find usable stunbreaks, and they often have options to spec them as condi clear making the skills uses twofold.

For me having stability always meant I didn’t need to use one of my stunbreaks skills upfront but I eventually would and would expect too.

I think to many people want this free ignore cc card. Which isnt what stability is supposed to be; it is a small brief grace period via buff, that can be stripped, corrupted, worn down instantly.

Maybe our outlook is a product of poor stability.

Sure you dont need stab if you spend 10 minutes bating ccs, or if youre a backliner and have no idea how crucial stability is, or if you happen to chain cc the enemy first in most encounters. Having a stunbreaker is not a replacement for stability. Im not sure how you could even think that. Dont get me wrong, the old stab was broken and I’m not here to defend it, but the current output (guardian) is pretty kitten poor. If you disagree I would like to here a counter argument. Saying “I’m so good I dont need stab” is not a counter argument, its chest thumping.

Subversion.2580:

Or they could, you know, roll it back to the way it used to work – which worked and worked on a logic – before the game’s collective CoR spammers decided to campaign against “them elitist guilds” and instated this environment that no one wants to command in, leaving us all for worse over time.

It is rather pointless to build an exhaustive list of work-arounds for a rather simple fix. Then again, considering how Anet adressed combat-ressing and other related issues, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them take you up on your duct-tape approach .

Whats pointless is believing in something that most likely wont happen. If you have a better idea then this, I would like to hear it and would even update my OP to reflect it.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Eval.2371:

Junkpile.7439:

If you play eyes open you don’t need stability at all.

This. I never really seen the need for stability if I could bring stunbreaks and react when needed. On many classes I don’t struggle to find usable stunbreaks, and they often have options to spec them as condi clear making the skills uses twofold.

For me having stability always meant I didn’t need to use one of my stunbreaks skills upfront but I eventually would and would expect too.

I think to many people want this free ignore cc card. Which isnt what stability is supposed to be; it is a small brief grace period via buff, that can be stripped, corrupted, worn down instantly.

Maybe our outlook is a product of poor stability.

Sure you dont need stab if you spend 10 minutes bating ccs, or if youre a backliner and have no idea how crucial stability is, or if you happen to chain cc the enemy first in most encounters. Having a stunbreaker is not a replacement for stability. Im not sure how you could even think that. Dont get me wrong, the old stab was broken and I’m not here to defend it, but the current output (guardian) is pretty kitten poor. If you disagree I would like to here a counter argument. Saying “I’m so good I dont need stab” is not a counter argument, its chest thumping.

I am never said I am too good for stability. FYI Your not supposed to bait out cc with stunbreaks… or stab that for that matter you supposed to avoid it. I’ve played plenty of front and back line. If you have too you would know that stability is a boon which makes it unreliable. It can be stripped, corrupted, or waited out(most stab is only 5 sec). Stunbreaks are an alternative because you can break out when you need to.

Stability is more valuable is when it is coordinated group application and really its only better is in small-medium size fights. If its larger zerg on zerg, your not going to be able to get enough stability to save you if you get caught out but a stunbreak might.

Bottom line is most people don’t have respect for the amount of cc others can put out, and go in hap haphazardly expecting 5 stacks on a 5sec duration to make them a juggernaut of some sort.

Eval.2371:

Eval.2371:

I never really seen the need for stability if I could bring stunbreaks and react when needed.
For me having stability always meant I didn’t need to use one of my stunbreaks skills upfront but I eventually would and would expect too.

I am never said I am too good for stability. FYI Your not supposed to bait out cc with stunbreaks… or stab that for that matter you supposed to avoid it. I’ve played plenty of front and back line. If you have too you would know that stability is a boon which makes it unreliable. It can be stripped, corrupted, or waited out(most stab is only 5 sec). Stunbreaks are an alternative because you can break out when you need to.

Alright, I guess I misunderstood when you said you didnt see the need for stability if you could bring stunbreaks. That made it seem like you were saying stunbreaks were a replacement for stab.
No you never said you were too good for it but your wording made it seem so. I didnt say ccs should be baited out with stab. Yes, in this current meta you are supposed to avoid it, which means pirateshipping until it is safer to bomb. What I am trying to push for is a bit less pirateship shenanigans and more bombs, since the group will have more stab access (and not limited to just one class). Coincidentally this might have an impact on things like CoR because the range spammers will have more pressure on them, possibly making them less of a threat.

It’s bad enough to see zerg balls running around with nearly 100% uptime on all boons, including resistance now. I’d rather not see boon spamming get even worse.

roamzero.9486:

It’s bad enough to see zerg balls running around with nearly 100% uptime on all boons, including resistance now. I’d rather not see boon spamming get even worse.

I know where youre coming from. Its pretty crazy, but thats how the game was built. All those boons do not save them from a coordinated strike though. What I find crazy is that only one class has group access to the most powerful boon of the game mode.

It may be entirely possible that hammer trains were unstoppable in the past, but I do recall pirate shipping already being a thing before the stability change. I understand CC should have value, and maybe you felt left out.

But….

Can anyone clear me on any sources…..

Was any of this intended for World vs World? Did they actually say something on the lines that stability and trains were too strong in WvW? Do you think the stacks of stability granted per skill was considered?

The way I see it, it seems to be centered around PvP and WvW just seems (as usual) as collateral damage. I don’t find that particularly sound even if there are arguments in favor of this.

ArchonWing.9480:

It may be entirely possible that hammer trains were unstoppable in the past, but I do recall pirate shipping already being a thing before the stability change. I understand CC should have value, and maybe you felt left out.

But….

Can anyone clear me on any sources…..

Was any of this intended for World vs World? Did they actually say something on the lines that stability and trains were too strong in WvW? Do you think the stacks of stability granted per skill was considered?

The way I see it, it seems to be centered around PvP and WvW just seems (as usual) as collateral damage. I don’t find that particularly sound even if there are arguments in favor of this.

I think the stab change was two fold, but since esports is getting so much attention (heh) the change was probably primarily focused around that.
Arent you supposed to defend anet with that forum specialist title? :3

Stand The Wall.6987:

ArchonWing.9480:

It may be entirely possible that hammer trains were unstoppable in the past, but I do recall pirate shipping already being a thing before the stability change. I understand CC should have value, and maybe you felt left out.

But….

Can anyone clear me on any sources…..

Was any of this intended for World vs World? Did they actually say something on the lines that stability and trains were too strong in WvW? Do you think the stacks of stability granted per skill was considered?

The way I see it, it seems to be centered around PvP and WvW just seems (as usual) as collateral damage. I don’t find that particularly sound even if there are arguments in favor of this.

I think the stab change was two fold, but since esports is getting so much attention (heh) the change was probably primarily focused around that.
Arent you supposed to defend anet with that forum specialist title?

The stab change was purely for WvW.

sPvP has felt no change from the stab skill except for pulsing 1 stack stability. You can’t stun an enemy with 5 stability stacks unless the team is all hammer warriors and the player doesn’t dodge anything.

Im almost a melee, and will stay alway from WvW ranged wars. i find my place in Eotm. The current fights seems more a kind of gunbound match.

ugrakarma.9416:

Im almost a melee, and will stay alway from WvW ranged wars. i find my place in Eotm. The current fights seems more a kind of gunbound match.

Who needs stab when you are fighting a bunch of up-levels and doors though

runeblade.7514:

Stand The Wall.6987:

ArchonWing.9480:

It may be entirely possible that hammer trains were unstoppable in the past, but I do recall pirate shipping already being a thing before the stability change. I understand CC should have value, and maybe you felt left out.

But….

Can anyone clear me on any sources…..

Was any of this intended for World vs World? Did they actually say something on the lines that stability and trains were too strong in WvW? Do you think the stacks of stability granted per skill was considered?

The way I see it, it seems to be centered around PvP and WvW just seems (as usual) as collateral damage. I don’t find that particularly sound even if there are arguments in favor of this.

I think the stab change was two fold, but since esports is getting so much attention (heh) the change was probably primarily focused around that.
Arent you supposed to defend anet with that forum specialist title?

The stab change was purely for WvW.

sPvP has felt no change from the stab skill except for pulsing 1 stack stability. You can’t stun an enemy with 5 stability stacks unless the team is all hammer warriors and the player doesn’t dodge anything.

The stab change was to reflect developing new CC system with break bars seen on NPC bosses and to coexist with upcoming pulsing stability changes with HoT stuff (reaper’s shroud stability for example)… at least that’s what I think
…and as runeblade mentioned, this change did not have significant impact in sPvP, but it changed WvW very much…

Well its purely speculation at this point. Now back to the topic on hand….

Peterson.8345:

runeblade.7514:

Stand The Wall.6987:

ArchonWing.9480:

It may be entirely possible that hammer trains were unstoppable in the past, but I do recall pirate shipping already being a thing before the stability change. I understand CC should have value, and maybe you felt left out.

But….

Can anyone clear me on any sources…..

Was any of this intended for World vs World? Did they actually say something on the lines that stability and trains were too strong in WvW? Do you think the stacks of stability granted per skill was considered?

The way I see it, it seems to be centered around PvP and WvW just seems (as usual) as collateral damage. I don’t find that particularly sound even if there are arguments in favor of this.

I think the stab change was two fold, but since esports is getting so much attention (heh) the change was probably primarily focused around that.
Arent you supposed to defend anet with that forum specialist title?

The stab change was purely for WvW.

sPvP has felt no change from the stab skill except for pulsing 1 stack stability. You can’t stun an enemy with 5 stability stacks unless the team is all hammer warriors and the player doesn’t dodge anything.

The stab change was to reflect developing new CC system with break bars seen on NPC bosses and to coexist with upcoming pulsing stability changes with HoT stuff (reaper’s shroud stability for example)… at least that’s what I think
…and as runeblade mentioned, this change did not have significant impact in sPvP, but it changed WvW very much…

Yep it wasn’t for WvW they were trying to chnage the way CC worked in general

With all the elite specs throwing CC and condi out, WvW is pretty unplayable right now. At least if you wanna have fun with real fights and not watch a giant blob of red circles on your screen which you insta-die if you happen to touch.

WvW definitely needs a stability buff. It is currently not fun to be part of a group fight.

Unfortunately, ANET doesn’t get that people actually want to fight in WvW. They think everyone comes to fight tower lords.

/bump bump it up

Would like to hear from more people, whether you agree or disagree doesnt matter.

bumping, plz fix stability anet tyvm

Dano.5298:

Tongku.5326:

morrolan.9608:

Tongku.5326:

Chaba.5410:

Stab was meant to be countered with boon stripping, boon corruption, and soft ccs, not hard ccs.

For WVW AOE boon strips are just too weak and too infrequent to accomplish this. In addition soft CCs do not work because they can also be removed by non stop AOE cleanse spam since they are mostly conditions, and in many cases you don’t even need that, jsut have enough -condi duration on you to bring duration of soft CC under 1 tick to be completely immune to it.

The 2 things above is what made stab in its original form stupid OP when added into any build.

if they buff stab, it will jsut be the other extreme, they need to rebalance the above in order to buff stab its somewhat in the middle.

I don’t recall there being too many complaints or problems with the old stab. Stab was applied, necros stripped or corrupted it, eles cc’d the enemy then the groups clashed. If you were co-ordinated well enough the boon stripping and corruption lasted long enough to do its job. And groups were evenly balanced.

Hmm, I recall GWEN meta and mad amount of nothing but hammertrains for the 1st year or year and a half of the game, I was a part of that meta running guard, necro, war purely and exactly because of the old stab. Being completely invulnreable and literally laughing at CCs and condis completely negating a vast majority of builds.

If you are new to the game, just hop on youtube, so many vids still around. There are even a couple going 5 vs map que. Personally I was never as good as those guys but I did manage to command 8 and 10 vs map que back in my day. In addition, to help you recall, please do a search on these very forum archives to see all the issues GWEN meta brought, stability and the lack of it by certain professions and the lack of counters to it as it was, will be right at the top. You just can’t miss it.

The 1st WVW exodus happened exactly and precisely because of this, because of so many classes / players being excluded from it. But at that time population was still strong enough to pick up the slack sort of speak. Now that there are too few new players coming in and couple with other issues.

Whatever the solution is it needs to be balanced and not go to those old ways, as that will just literally half of whatever you have left, CC and condi immune groups to me are worse then current ranged AOE spam groups.

There was no mass exodus due to GWEN meta.

There was however a mass exodus due to the stability changes.

If certain classes weren’t used much, then thats a balance issue, not a stability issue.

The current stab need a rework or be reversed for large scale fight. My friends/followers went from 100-150+ online to 20 max , just a few months after the stab change.

Sadly, just basic math are needed to realize how wrong is the new stab in large scale fights and outnumbered fights.

They could nerf warrior stability.

It’s sad that on my Guard I pop stab, take 1 step and get melted. On my Ranger, with pet taking Condi’s I can go anywhere.

or maybe get some stun breaks and improve your reaction times

It doesn’t necessarily have to be reversed. The problem with the change was there was no attention paid to balance whatsoever regarding cc’s. It was a change designed around pvp and not suitable for large scale fights. CC’s are out of control and unbalanced therefore stab stacks are instantly stripped in many cases. Anet has a kitten for cc’s, its a lazy way of making content seem hard, or making players seem skilled.

Unless cc’s are brought into line (yea right), or stab is more accessible (probably the better alternative) its going to continue to be like this.

This is what I feel like with the stab change and all the CC right now in the game.

I don’t see why Anet no longer allows Golem in a Box in WvW. Might as well.

Edit: Sorry, it was the Gear consumable I’m thinking of. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_%28Gear%29 Looking for a vid…

Please give Thieves access to stability first.

Boon stripping should only remove a certain amount of stacks of stability, not the boon itself.

This would require more strategy on when to boon strip and force comps to consider keeping boon strips in reserve.

joneirikb.7506:

Saw someone suggest a middle ground, where each stack of stability when hit made you immune from further CC for 1-2 seconds. So 5 stacks of stability gave you at least 5 seconds of no CC. But don’t really know how it would work out, since I’ve never been part of organized fight stuff.

Pretty kitten good solution.

Why can’t they just change the way stability works in WvW? I’m so tired of the design philosophy that all the skills in three very separate game modes have to be the same.

GW2 is completely divided between PvP, WvW and PvE, so it’s time to accept that and designing skills around that.

A perfect example of a change would be to revert the warhorn skill on warriors to effect 10 targets again instead of 5 and convert the conditions back to boons.

This change was out in because it was OP in PvP but it really crippled warriors frontline ability in WvW.

grifflyman.8102:

Why can’t they just change the way stability works in WvW? I’m so tired of the design philosophy that all the skills in three very separate game modes have to be the same.

GW2 is completely divided between PvP, WvW and PvE, so it’s time to accept that and designing skills around that.

A perfect example of a change would be to revert the warhorn skill on warriors to effect 10 targets again instead of 5 and convert the conditions back to boons.

This change was put in because it was OP in PvP but it really crippled warriors frontline ability in WvW.