Guild Wars 2

Honestly one of the big reasons GW2 WvW doesn’t work quite like RvR in daoc, is due to the scoreboard. People are too obsessed with the scoreboard to actually get the two underdog realms together and beat on the bigger of the 3. They are worried that if they do that, they may end up 3rd instead of 2nd on the scoreboard. It is much easier for the bigger of the two realms to just pick on the bones of the 3rd realm the entire match.

Often times servers that are getting trounced in score simply stop queueing, and wait out the time until the next match up. Instead of just going into WvW and having fun. Players are too worried about their ranking and their current score on the board. Battle decisions are made purely dependent on how many points it will net your realm, instead of tactical impact that those decisions may have. The scoreboard is a crutch at the moment, and it’s a crutch that is getting in the way of how good WvW could actually be.

I am not saying that server rankings should go away all together, simply keep the scores in house. Instead of displaying them in game, simply keep them as metrics used in house to rearrange the server match up’s as needed.

ya that would be nice.

just after release there were a lot of posts like this one.

LoL this made me giggle =)

I really can’t think of a faster way to destroy wvw than getting rid of the score. Playing to win is important to most gamers imo.

Setch.2398:

I really can’t think of a faster way to destroy wvw than getting rid of the score. Playing to win is important to most gamers imo.

I agree,
Why play at all?

No rewards at the end anyway. Just knowing in your head that you are better than the other two servers is great.
Remove that and ???

Server pride?
But everyone’s a winner! YAY
/quit game

Monsoon.2589:

The scoreboard would be fine if it actually represented correct scores. unfortunately with the culling and invisible armies the scoring is a joke that that does not really represent a server’s capability when you get killed by invisible people

Seriously, you’ve completely lost me here. WTK does culling have to do with scores? The score is accurate.

Catisa.6507:

Monsoon.2589:

The scoreboard would be fine if it actually represented correct scores. unfortunately with the culling and invisible armies the scoring is a joke that that does not really represent a server’s capability when you get killed by invisible people

Seriously, you’ve completely lost me here. WTK does culling have to do with scores? The score is accurate.

He is problably one of those guys who think WvWvW should be about killing people and not about conquering territories…

Setch.2398:

I really can’t think of a faster way to destroy wvw than getting rid of the score. Playing to win is important to most gamers imo.

The OP did not suggest getting rid of the score.

fivekiller.1432:

ya that would be nice.

just after release there were a lot of posts like this one.

I remember making this same suggestion back in September, with more reasoning and mock up UI, (back then orbs were still relevant). X)

Though I’m starting to think Anet is fine with the current shallow, hot-join friendly system.

sticx.5823:

Battle decisions are made purely dependent on how many points it will net your realm, instead of tactical impact that those decisions may have.

Of course decisions are made on how many points it will score. Because kills DO. NOT. MATTER.

Tactical impact is scoring. This is why you time your caps right before the point tick, this is why you hold things until the scoring tick. This is(partly) why you use three people to kill every enemy dolyak in sight.

That scoreboard and ticking clock add a level of complexity that is sorely needed in the already simplified world of WvW. Do I think it could be redone with a better scoring system? Absolutely yes. Do I think it would help WvW to have scoring removed and replaced with NOTHING? Absolutely not.

Caliburn.1845:

sticx.5823:

Battle decisions are made purely dependent on how many points it will net your realm, instead of tactical impact that those decisions may have.

Of course decisions are made on how many points it will score. Because kills DO. NOT. MATTER.

Tactical impact is scoring. This is why you time your caps right before the point tick, this is why you hold things until the scoring tick. This is(partly) why you use three people to kill every enemy dolyak in sight.

That scoreboard and ticking clock add a level of complexity that is sorely needed in the already simplified world of WvW. Do I think it could be redone with a better scoring system? Absolutely yes. Do I think it would help WvW to have scoring removed and replaced with NOTHING? Absolutely not.

Please read the post you’re responding to, this is the actual suggestion:

“I am not saying that server rankings should go away all together, simply keep the scores in house. Instead of displaying them in game, simply keep them as metrics used in house to rearrange the server match up’s as needed.”

I totally disagree with hidden metrics.

I want to know when why and what of the scores. I want to know all the details and I want to develop my guilds strategy based on those details.

Ofc people are obsessed about the scores and rankings because that is what they have to compete aside of the ocasional GvG or Guild Vs Zerg, but you cant count and measure those atm.

What the OP is suggesting is just having a suprise every week, absurd moments like “oh we didnt score enough this week, maby next week we can play a bit more” wtf?? are you serious??

And on the other sub-topic, I think the magic of WvW lies in the fact that you actually can play strategy games mixed with massive pvp. And yes, you can do both.

But then how will we have awesome scoreboard updates in the match threads

Take away the scoreboard and they will complain about the maps showing occupied territory. You will never motivate people that crumble under pressure, the psychology war is half the battle in WvW. You don’t see this issue in the higher tiers because the players understand this psychological battle and know how to push through it.

Elthurien.8356:

Take away the scoreboard and they will complain about the maps showing occupied territory. You will never motivate people that crumble under pressure, the psychology war is half the battle in WvW. You don’t see this issue in the higher tiers because the players understand this psychological battle and know how to push through it.

However, we could still make the case for the map having a more localized and immediate effect. Sneak flipping a structure only takes a few minutes, and even if you only have 1 or 2 structures on the map you can still have fun as long as you limit your scope to the immediate battlefield.

That beats chasing after an impossible number.

Keeping track of things like scores makes people feel like they are better than others. That’s just not nice. We should remove all the scores and fighting. We should just have a place where all the servers can get together to discuss the social structure of quaggans. Huggles all around.

Mean old scores. Pffft, Who needs them, Coo Coo.

Wierd saying that score destroyes a game.
Games without scores or winners are mostly booring.

But just play for fun.. Our server even dont want to go to tier 1 and looses on purpose from time to time.. We want fun fights during prime time. So we like to play against servers like us . Good guilds that give us good fights. T1 are just zergs that win by numbers. Mostly cant give a good fight or come with 80 people zergs and still got almost wiped by 30 of our players.

So for me score not that important.. since it is based of who can bring most players 24/7. Not about skill or teamwork/tactics. But i dont like the score gone completely.
Since a game without score is no game.

sticx.5823:

Honestly one of the big reasons GW2 WvW doesn’t work quite like RvR in daoc, is due to the scoreboard. People are too obsessed with the scoreboard to actually get the two underdog realms together and beat on the bigger of the 3. They are worried that if they do that, they may end up 3rd instead of 2nd on the scoreboard. It is much easier for the bigger of the two realms to just pick on the bones of the 3rd realm the entire match.

Often times servers that are getting trounced in score simply stop queueing, and wait out the time until the next match up. Instead of just going into WvW and having fun. Players are too worried about their ranking and their current score on the board. Battle decisions are made purely dependent on how many points it will net your realm, instead of tactical impact that those decisions may have. The scoreboard is a crutch at the moment, and it’s a crutch that is getting in the way of how good WvW could actually be.

I am not saying that server rankings should go away all together, simply keep the scores in house. Instead of displaying them in game, simply keep them as metrics used in house to rearrange the server match up’s as needed.

Rather than adjusting the environment to affect the players attitudes, maybe the players should adjust their own attitudes. Just a thought. Self discipline on the internet, radical I know.

wvw actually need more scoreboards

Remove the scoreboard you remove my desire to play W3. Its not just about killing the enemy for me.

There’s really no big point of WvWvW if the scoreboard and bonuses were removed.

I like the scoreboard, people put too much into it though.
SoR has really carried the attitude of just rocking it out when your on, kitten it when your off. We haven’t really had any coverage other than NA until recently and it got us to tier 2 and we held our spot for a long time with it.
We would win the weekend, win NA primetime and lose the matchup.
Can’t be helped, however we made sure to give em hell when we got on.

Monsoon.2589:

The scoreboard would be fine if it actually represented correct scores. unfortunately with the culling and invisible armies the scoring is a joke that that does not really represent a server’s capability when you get killed by invisible people

Not sure if brilliant satire of complainers, or just exceptionally stupid complainer

Oh, and to answer OP’s question, you need to only reward first place, and punish second and third equally. Only then will they team up on the leader instead of fighting for second place.

Mif.3471:

Oh, and to answer OP’s question, you need to only reward first place, and punish second and third equally. Only then will they team up on the leader instead of fighting for second place.

This is actually very easily achievable too if they make each structure confer their own buffs that is only active for whichever side is holding that structure.

It’ll get people to develop an attachment to and give them strong incentives to defend structures, while not punishing the losing side too severely with an ever widening gap (can always make a full comeback), and promote objective-centric strategic play (instead of karma train circle caps).

It issnt about 1st 2nd or 3th place its about points.
If server 1 has almost all keeps and towers it is easier to take a tower of server 1 since they have more towers/keeps to defend (are more split up)
If server 3 has only one tower , most of their force probably in it defending it like crazy with tons of siege in it.. So taking that keep is harder..

We never choose what tower to take based on if they are first or 3th place..
We take the stuff of people easiest to take or where we can find good fights (good fights doesnt mean fighting a large force hiding behind walls with lots of siege)

So the problem lies more by your server community then the scoreboard.

I’ve argued this in the past.

The scoreboard should show “current calculated rating change” — the “evolution” column from this website: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

That’s the one thing that you can really impact from day to day. People see “200,000 to 80,000? We lose. I quit until next week” but they don’t think about the fact that their “-82” projected rating change could be improved if they kept fighting. You might still lose but instead of getting -82 maybe you could bring that up to -60 or -40. It’s worth it to keep fighting but the current scoreboard doesn’t reflect this.

Everyone have the culling problem… So if one raid was wiped because of culling, it’s because the other dealt with it in a better way… Culling isn’t a one-side issue. So i’d say your statement is flawed.

People do not stop WvWing because of a losing score they stop when objectives/fighting is just waste of time vs server that has 2-3x your number. When you are losing closely it means that you are actually having a good fight. Wen getting stomped you are getting rolled by larger force at every objective so people get sick of being useless. Even if there was zero score fact that 1 server controls the map will keep people from going into the BG.

Jeknar.6184:

Everyone have the culling problem… So if one raid was wiped because of culling, it’s because the other dealt with it in a better way… Culling isn’t a one-side issue. So i’d say your statement is flawed.

Actually culling favors the larger force. So it even further eliminates any tactics in WvW.