Guild Wars 2

3rd season will happen as soon this new living story stuff will end again.
Its nothing but a cliffhanger between LS and i bet anet makes some good money from transfers etc, so in the end theyre the true winners.

Offair.2563:

3rd season will happen as soon this new living story stuff will end again.
Its nothing but a cliffhanger between LS and i bet anet makes some good money from transfers etc, so in the end theyre the true winners.

I am glad I am not the only one thinking like that.

A wvw tournament/season simply doesn’t make sense given the type of game it is. Anet should find some other way to give incentives to players to try out the game mode, but not at the expense of the game mode itself.

+1 This. Season promotes stacking, and stacking is not healthy for any wvw community. Anet will only shorten the life span of its wvw population if they continue to use the same approach towards season.

Yeah, seasons really are a massive failure if their intent is to create some sort of competition. I mean the entire scoring algorithm undermines any attempt to have fun and exciting matchups.

I can only recall one game that didn’t go exactly as expected during the entire season and that was due to a banking holiday.

But frankly, the flaws of the PPT system have been known for years. Since launch players have complained about how lame “night-capping” is but ANet has continued to ignore it as usual.

And now we’re at the point where no one even cares about score anymore because it’s a meaningless and hollow measure.

Cinder.2056:

+1 This. Season promotes stacking, and stacking is not healthy for any wvw community. Anet will only shorten the life span of its wvw population if they continue to use the same approach towards season.

This season even more then the last when not only rewards are split based on the servers ranking, instead of a fixed reward, but arenanet even went ahead and anounced that they would give greater reward to servers scoring higher.

They basicly just told people “you can buy your max reward for XXX gems by transfering to the super-stacked server”.

Unfortunately there will be no more significant updates to WvWvW.

This is all we get

Terrahero.9358:

This season even more then the last when not only rewards are split based on the servers ranking, instead of a fixed reward, but arenanet even went ahead and anounced that they would give greater reward to servers scoring higher.

They basicly just told people “you can buy your max reward for XXX gems by transfering to the super-stacked server”.

Not entirely true, at least for NA Gold. The server with the best overall coverage isn’t going to win (matter of fact, best case scenario only gives it a tie for third) – of course, it required a ton of coordination and alot of trust to pull it off, but it worked.

“Anet, please stop making money off transfers because seasons suck so bad”

lol

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah, seasons really are a massive failure if their intent is to create some sort of competition.

It was probably never their intent to begin with. Anyone with at least half a brain (yes, that probably includes the game designers) realizes that competition in WvW is not that meaningful due to coverage/population imbalances and stuff like that. Likely, seasons are just intended to be a repacking of existing content just to add some variety and novelty to the game and from that get more people playing.

wwfam.2495:

Dee Jay.2460:

Yeah, seasons really are a massive failure if their intent is to create some sort of competition.

It was probably never their intent to begin with. Anyone with at least half a brain (yes, that probably includes the game designers) realizes that competition in WvW is not that meaningful due to coverage/population imbalances and stuff like that. Likely, seasons are just intended to be a repacking of existing content just to add some variety and novelty to the game and from that get more people playing.

That’s what it is, of course, but calling it a “league” implies some sort of competitive notions. But that’s clearly not the case.

All we want is a balanced competition, but will they make significant changes to WvW in between? Doubtful, so I am happy to have these Tournaments as long as they learn.. which isn’t the case.

But I like having these Tournaments rather than the usual RNG stuff where you just have to play for rankings and ratings, as long as they are more flexible and shorter in the future.

The only way that I have thought of to get “balanced” WvW competition that defeats population imbalances is having a low player cap on each map and overflows with only the main scoring. I don’t think this is a great idea either tho because guilds that want to run together and contribute would have an impossible time trying to do so and being in an overflow would have as much point as EotM.

Orrrr, an idea I brought up once before about some type of proximity debuff that weakens the uber blobs that run around with 60 people ‘cause they can’t fight well enough without.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy don’t implement another season

Seasons are a good idea they just need to get it right this one was too long.

Dee Jay.2460:

And now we’re at the point where no one even cares about score anymore because it’s a meaningless and hollow measure.

Except Tier 1, but nobody cares what they think because they feel anybody who isn’t playing for points is doing it wrong.

mango.9267:

2) Stale matchups, with no chance of finding more even matchups. Locking servers in a League for 2+ months is a terrible idea because server population and effort drastically change in that time frame. The top servers get bored, and the bottom servers collapse.

You are both wrong and right here:

The part where you are wrong:
The leagues actually create MORE varied matches. That’s just the nature of the swiss style tournament.

The part where you are right:
Some servers do not belong in their league. In silver, SoR got stuck in that league in the middle of a collapse. They shouldn’t have been in the league.

What to do about HoD? They likely won’t be able to compete with any of the T2 servers, so I think T3 is stuck with them for awhile.

But.. But… Achievement points.. Crappy reward chests… Why aren’t you guys excited!?

Not entirely true, at least for NA Gold. The server with the best overall coverage isn’t going to win (matter of fact, best case scenario only gives it a tie for third) – of course, it required a ton of coordination and alot of trust to pull it off, but it worked.

Except that NA Gold proved how to best manipulate the system. The system simply doesn’t work and hasn’t for a long time. For the record it wasn’t only NA Gold where this was happening.

Adding my support to the wvw seasons dieing and never coming back.

style.6173:

mango.9267:

2) Stale matchups, with no chance of finding more even matchups. Locking servers in a League for 2+ months is a terrible idea because server population and effort drastically change in that time frame. The top servers get bored, and the bottom servers collapse.

The part where you are wrong:
The leagues actually create MORE varied matches. That’s just the nature of the swiss style tournament.

This may be true in your league, but in NA silver, the matchups were incredibly stale. Every week was HoD vs. FA vs. SBI/YB; SBI/YB vs. IoJ vs. CD/NSP; CD/NSP vs. BP vs. SoR. Only in the final two weeks are the servers pushing hard and spicing up the matchups, but for the better part of 2 months, the matchups were exactly the same.

If Anet wanted more matchup variety, locking servers in Leagues isn’t the way to do it. Rather, they could just modify the Glicko algorithm.

style.6173:

You are both wrong and right here:

The part where you are wrong:
The leagues actually create MORE varied matches. That’s just the nature of the swiss style tournament.

well this is complete opposite of EU Gold which has forced SFR with Desolation for every matchup except 2 and so because of that its created a poor competition where coming 3rd when facing those 2 is actually more beneficial so you dont face them each week.

they simply dont care anymore and just see this as a cash cow game that will be milked for as much money as possible so we will continue to have seasons in order to promote people buying gems and transfering to easy servers for rewards.

I used have lot of frnds.enjoyed gw2 in the past.because of these seasons my guild and server completely got destroyed.season 1 killed my guild.season 2 killed whole server.i am from whiteside ridge. Guilds play important role in an MMO. So improve guild system and alternative for seasons.

shadowraiden.8394:

style.6173:

You are both wrong and right here:

The part where you are wrong:
The leagues actually create MORE varied matches. That’s just the nature of the swiss style tournament.

well this is complete opposite of EU Gold which has forced SFR with Desolation for every matchup except 2 and so because of that its created a poor competition where coming 3rd when facing those 2 is actually more beneficial so you dont face them each week.

It’s wrong for NA Gold too. For SoS alone, one week of fighting the other T2 servers, other week fighting 2 T1 servers. Repeat, in that order, for the entire season.

Love Season 2 at the moment, please bring – after some suitable pause – Season 3.

To me Season 2 is great, because of the motivation on the server. People really play for the PPT, and you are never alone. Also our competing servers play hard and are tough as nails.

Nevertheless its good that the Season ends after this week, so that I can relax a bit and do some upleveling etc. and be ready for Season 3.

I second the OP’s opinion, no more seasons/tournaments please. At least not until there will be some changes to WvW, which is most likely not gonna happen, so no more of it please. We had two attempts now to create a “balanced” tournament and it was shown that it is not possible. No third try, ANet, thank you.

KOPPER.1458:

Not entirely true, at least for NA Gold. The server with the best overall coverage isn’t going to win (matter of fact, best case scenario only gives it a tie for third) – of course, it required a ton of coordination and alot of trust to pull it off, but it worked.

Except that NA Gold proved how to best manipulate the system. The system simply doesn’t work and hasn’t for a long time. For the record it wasn’t only NA Gold where this was happening.

It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose. “Manipulate the system” for you is the same as “keep the overstacked server from winning” for me.

Also, NA gold is the only tier which is coming down to Week 9 to determine who wins. Every other tier’s winner was solidified weeks ago. I take that as a positive thing, not a negative one.

Edit – for the record, I agree wholeheartedly with you about the system not working.

(rant)
the NA gold winner was decided the moment the alliance between TC and JQ was made, as for determining 3rd place I have it from reasonably reliable sources to believe that even that has been rigged, SoS will be allowed to become 2nd making them 3rd over all.
(/rant)

but back on topic I am in favor of the discontinuation of any and all WvW tournaments as Anet doesn’t seem to understand that the glico rating (duno if that’s spelled right) says more about a server’s strength then a ppt, especially since you cant mess with the glico rating like you can with the ppt overall score as is happening now

Red Dawn.4561:

(rant)
the NA gold winner was decided the moment the alliance between TC and JQ was made,

And which one of JQ or TC is it? Cause its still very much open.

Red Dawn.4561:

but back on topic I am in favor of the discontinuation of any and all WvW tournaments as Anet doesn’t seem to understand that the glico rating (duno if that’s spelled right) says more about a server’s strength then a ppt, especially since you cant mess with the glico rating like you can with the ppt overall score as is happening now

Looking at current NA Gold as an example, by tournament rating:

1. TC
2. JQ
3. BG
4. SoS
5. Mag
6. DB

Looking at Glicko:

1. TC
2. JQ
3. BG
4. SoS
5. Mag
6. DB

Sorry, Glicko is just as broken as the tournament.

Definitely agree with your desire for no more WvW tournaments, though, that’s for sure. :-)

Dhampyr.2104:

KOPPER.1458:

Not entirely true, at least for NA Gold. The server with the best overall coverage isn’t going to win (matter of fact, best case scenario only gives it a tie for third) – of course, it required a ton of coordination and alot of trust to pull it off, but it worked.

Except that NA Gold proved how to best manipulate the system. The system simply doesn’t work and hasn’t for a long time. For the record it wasn’t only NA Gold where this was happening.

It’s all a matter of perspective, I suppose. “Manipulate the system” for you is the same as “keep the overstacked server from winning” for me.

Also, NA gold is the only tier which is coming down to Week 9 to determine who wins. Every other tier’s winner was solidified weeks ago. I take that as a positive thing, not a negative one.

Edit – for the record, I agree wholeheartedly with you about the system not working.

The moment a 2v1 alliance is in the first tier the 1st and 2nd position is already set in stone, as they will never leave that tier by trading wins, and there is not any possible way to counter that. How is that an improvement?.
It is illogical to think 2v1 is good in this specific case. We are not talking about two small serves joining to have a chance against a big one, two David against a Goliath. We are talking about three high population servers.
Or to say that it was to counter coverage, because if that was the case then there would not have been a 2v1 during prime time.
In other words, stop trying to pass on the illusion that you are the heroes who slayed the big dragon to save the village. It was all about the loot.

The two things about this tournament that killed it for me. 1. Week in and week out 2v1. Whether you’re stomping or getting stomped, its no fun. 2. 9 weeks long? That was brutal.

Rewards and achievements were much better this time around but there is still plenty of work to be done. I still don’t get why so many of the achievement rewards were around ascended mats when we already have stacks upon stacks of them.

I haven’t played WvW much at all since the alliance between JQ and TC.

Every week we would avoid the other server just to gang up on BG, completely ignoring the other server. This made it extremely boring for me.

The sad thing is… the difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd is 50 token increments. I’d rather come 3rd in the tournament and have good fights… rather than a 2v1 where we only fight one server and achieve 1st place.

Please, please remove seasons. Make weekly matchups more rewarding. Perhaps weekly achievements (if they can be implemented properly) and the servers get 50, 40, 30 tokens based on how they do?

I want good fights. I want an incentive to win. I don’t want the massive imbalances and burnout that seasons bring.

IMHO, The league went too long and for various reasons has not really engaged many new players. ( at least on my server)

This was the first time i done this event because i “took a break” from gw2 to say it nicely.
After these few months of playing daily during this season,
I can say that there couldn’t be a worse burn out for this game than this thing.

Shouldn’t be called a tournament when it’s easily exploited and rigged.
The “pre-season” aka stack the best server for max profit.
The “carrying alliance” aka cool game play element.
As well no doubt the hope for gems transfers from the slowpokes to achieve the first goal.

And overall the pointless duration, with the same matchups that pretty much becomes annoying, given the first factors for this “tournament”.

Please, please remove seasons. Make weekly matchups more rewarding. Perhaps weekly achievements (if they can be implemented properly) and the servers get 50, 40, 30 tokens based on how they do?

I want good fights. I want an incentive to win. I don’t want the massive imbalances and burnout that seasons bring.

Sadly it would not work. The same thing would happen. Solid 2v1 and win trading. I do not care so much about the 2v1. It was tough as nails. But win trading? Garrison / Tower / keep Trading? Just isn’t ok. Even bloodlust doesn’t work, simply trade that and stomps… I sadly do not know the solution but the system doesn’t and hasn’t worked for a long time. This season was a good showcase for it. I hope that AN learns from this and improves it somehow.

I don’t mind seasons, but on a simple promotion relegation system.

I have tended to stop posting on the forums as about 75% get deleted.

But WvW seasons are ridiculous…. I was actually half excited before the free transfers, as there were many servers that were evenly matched and would have made for a good tournament. Unfortunately Anet saw the dollar signs and offered free transfers.

Now you might not see any money being made by Anet there, but what will happen is at the end of the tournament all those guilds that stacked their respective servers will pay to move on. Not wanting to face the queues anymore and wanting to fight new opponents in gvgs. We will then spend the next 2-3 months balancing out the servers to a degree, then Anet will offer free transfers to mess it all up pre tournament 3.

We had a reasonable balance in WvW, until servers started tanking to get into Silver/Bronze and Anet dropped free server stacking into the pot.

I don’t have the answers on how to fix WvWvW. I’ll leave that up to people smarter than me and with more tolerance on being ignored by ANet. But between the unnecessarily long duration of Season 2, the burnout, the same kitten servers almost every week, server-stacking, coverage issues, and a myriad of other problems, all I know is that I’m relieved the kitten-show is coming to an end. Season 3 can’t come slowly enough.

We’ll see a 3rd season whether people want it or not.

They should get rid of the divided up leagues so servers like HoD can actually face competition. Rewards should be based on the player’s contribution and not the server’s placement. Allow the free transfers again only up to a certain # and give a few weeks for glicko to adjust once the free week is over.

Make it so that there’s an overall meta that guarantees 200 tickets (lowest possible # you can gain currently). Then each matchup make a sub-meta where you need to complete 4/10 achievements to gain 50 tickets. 6 week tournament. Total of 500 tickets if you finish everything. To extend out the time between LS2/3, they should use 3 weeks to adjust glicko scores beforehand.

Bunch of these complaints goes back to inherent problems with WvW, not really the season. You’ll have “stale” matchups regardless if there was seasons or not.

I recall servers fighting the same servers for like 5+ weeks straight. If anything there was more complaints for stale matchups before Seasons was implanted.

The only real problems I saw with Seasons was the 1) ridiculous amount of stacking that took place (looking at HoD) due to free transfers. Free transfers is an awful idea, especially now that there’s Megaservers. There will always be that one server that get loaded, just so the PvErs could have their tokens.

The other problem is the Swiss style tournament with not enough servers in the same league. This style doesn’t work well without a large list of servers. As people said we just have servers placing 2-8 which can shift dramatically in the last 2 weeks of matchup. A server can be placed in the bottom tier and face the 2 bottom servers of the league and still become 3rd just by pushing in the last 2 weeks, for example.

Why not just have every server with the possibility of competing each other? (ie removes Gold/Silver/Bronze). That’d allow for a more fluid week by week than what we currently had these past 2 seasons.

Seasons could be OK if they give rewards after personal gameplay not for servers. Repeatable achivements, real rewards( example lvl tome after 50 kills or something like that) more reward after open field battles, less for pvd, drastical decreasing in the number of sieges (2 treb 2 cata 6 ac in a tower is a joke and defender trebs/catas hit through gates lol)

Yea if they merged NA and EU servers together for wvw then added 3 new borderland maps and one more eternal like map for a total of 8 maps I’d love that alot more. Everyone’s coverage should balance out negating that complaint. New content with the maps would make it more interesting. Que times could even go down in the process. Lots of fun stuff could come of extra maps to patrol.

Only Arenanet could make a spectacle less popular than the ordinary, a tournament for WvW that makes people want to play it less.

I really did not enjoy the overall effect of the Tournament. Some match-ups were fun, but mostly I had a much better time in WvW before the tournament. Locking the match-ups was a big mistake, countless people made threads about it, including myself. The rewards style was also poorly conceived, as it promoted server stacking. Anyway, just wanted to bump this, as I feel the Devs need to read it.

Servers with less people should be given the chance to “win” a little. Imagine, the enemy may outnumber your forces 2:1, but you and your men are a constant thorn in their sides; a very persistent and annoying thorn. Only being able to strike key locations, your smaller army, while only controlling some stray towers and a keep, cannot be repressed. Such vigilance should be rewarded. I think that until coverage can be worked out in WvW, ANET should allow the community to shape it, with little input from themselves. (Aside from some needed functionality improvements, I mostly mean no Free Transfers + Tournament based on being the top server)

I hope A-Net learned from this tournament, and does not simply consider it a success due to the increased financial gain from mass transfers. Eventually, customers will get reluctant to hand over money if they feel that they are being unfairly treated, their fun exploited.

I find Guild Wars 2 to be an awesome game, it just needs more polish. (Aka stuff that fills the small gaps that are lacking from the current structure, in order to create a smooth surface.) I think the feature update was mostly positive, I’ve been having fun since its release.

Good luck A-Net you have a great product that many people enjoy, Gambatte.

They can do something like champions league too like fifa. top 4 NA teams vs top 4 EU teams but there is no balance becasue of these tournaments,people changing servers a lot. Low tier servers are dead Ex: whitesidgeridge in primetime we have maximum of 20 people zerg, in other times 4-6 people. This is what tournament did to us. guilds got killed no community.

mango.9267:

This thread serves no purpose other than to beg Anet not to implement Season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 were both failures for the same reasons:

1) Huge population shifts and imbalances, with no time to adjust Glicko and server rankings to respond to them. Pre-season, the massive migrations tear apart lots of lower tier communities. Post-season, the bandwagons fall apart and servers burn out, destroying even more communities. (Part me suspects that Anet condones this because it’s the only way to keep WvW from being completely stale, and it offers nice returns in gem sales).

2) Stale matchups, with no chance of finding more even matchups. Locking servers in a League for 2+ months is a terrible idea because server population and effort drastically change in that time frame. The top servers get bored, and the bottom servers collapse.

These two problems are symptomatic of a larger problem endemic to WvW: a poorly designed scoring mechanic centered around large population imbalances. It’s just that without the incentive of Seasons, this PPT/population problem isn’t as daunting because servers can rise and fall in the rankings fluidly. I don’t expect Anet to fix this problem any time soon, if ever, but I do plead that there be no more Seasons.

As a person who has been on TWO winning servers, I agree.

Seasons disrupt and do NOT forward a community of WvW players.

WvW being interrupted by the PvE content JUST ten days from the end was just about the worst thing I’ve seen in any MMO, ever.

Fix what is wrong with WvW, then figure out a matchup system that is fair and not stale/overwhelming.

Tachii.3506:

Bunch of these complaints goes back to inherent problems with WvW, not really the season. You’ll have “stale” matchups regardless if there was seasons or not.

I recall servers fighting the same servers for like 5+ weeks straight. If anything there was more complaints for stale matchups before Seasons was implanted.

The only real problems I saw with Seasons was the 1) ridiculous amount of stacking that took place (looking at HoD) due to free transfers. Free transfers is an awful idea, especially now that there’s Megaservers. There will always be that one server that get loaded, just so the PvErs could have their tokens.

The other problem is the Swiss style tournament with not enough servers in the same league. This style doesn’t work well without a large list of servers. As people said we just have servers placing 2-8 which can shift dramatically in the last 2 weeks of matchup. A server can be placed in the bottom tier and face the 2 bottom servers of the league and still become 3rd just by pushing in the last 2 weeks, for example.

Why not just have every server with the possibility of competing each other? (ie removes Gold/Silver/Bronze). That’d allow for a more fluid week by week than what we currently had these past 2 seasons.

#1. Fix stale matchup so that no server plays the same ones two weeks in a row.

We’ve been saying it since day 1 of WvW.

Red Dawn.4561:

(rant)
the NA gold winner was decided the moment the alliance between TC and JQ was made, as for determining 3rd place I have it from reasonably reliable sources to believe that even that has been rigged, SoS will be allowed to become 2nd making them 3rd over all.
(/rant)

but back on topic I am in favor of the discontinuation of any and all WvW tournaments as Anet doesn’t seem to understand that the glico rating (duno if that’s spelled right) says more about a server’s strength then a ppt, especially since you cant mess with the glico rating like you can with the ppt overall score as is happening now

It’s apparently the ONLY alliance that has taken down another server for a win.

Sad. Stupid and very very sad.

I want skill exhibited, not 2v1 servers…