I’m posting to enquire about fixing what I believe is a big issue with WvW.
The issue is the massive player groups (zergs), that dominate WvW zones. I understand that players like to run around in big groups. however most guilds aren’t huge and the combat when groups are 30+ is slow and laggy and my personal skill/ contribution is neglegable.
I’m sure ppl will just say get better gear but it will make no diference to a group 30+ with so many. I have played warhammer online in a group of 20. I found 20 v 20 is fun and not very slow but in this game you are looking to roam and get fights but all you find is an avalanch of players looking for an easy kill.
This is not competative and the ruins do not thin the zerg.
A method that would work to level the playing field would be to make groups loss health like level cap when they out number the opposing group. this scale matching would make the fighting more fun it the server could handle the calculations.
I shall explain further. In warhammer online the largest group you could make was 20 players. Now there could be many of these groups but they were often looking for a fight. so they fought fairly even numbers.
In this game I would think players want a fight that’s fun and challenging but still a fight rather than suicidal ratio or a massive army that wipes everything is it’s path. it just seems many ppl I speak to don’t enjoy that.
If it scaled the fights that we could have fun no matter the numbers you face.
I’m no programmer but wouldn’t the scaling have to be calculated, then recalculated when the number of players changes from deaths? Wouldn’t this just add more possible calculations into the mix?
For the over all idea, Don’t get your hopes up for a system like this. Its already been said that they won’t implement a system that will directly punish a group of players for being together. A reason is to avoid possible player griefing for following a guild or group of players.
I’m posting to enquire about fixing what I believe is a big issue with WvW.
The issue is the massive player groups (zergs), that dominate WvW zones. I understand that players like to run around in big groups. however most guilds aren’t huge and the combat when groups are 30+ is slow and laggy and my personal skill/ contribution is neglegable.
I’m sure ppl will just say get better gear but it will make no diference to a group 30+ with so many. I have played warhammer online in a group of 20. I found 20 v 20 is fun and not very slow but in this game you are looking to roam and get fights but all you find is an avalanch of players looking for an easy kill.
This is not competative and the ruins do not thin the zerg.
A method that would work to level the playing field would be to make groups loss health like level cap when they out number the opposing group. this scale matching would make the fighting more fun it the server could handle the calculations.
Didn’t we not learn that zergs/blobs are not Anet’s responsibilities? The outcome is a creation of players who chose “wisely” how WvW is today.
20v20 is GVG, Anet already provided custom arenas. Use them to our fullest advantage.
Ruins are there to allow people to practice GVG and pick off straddlers or uplevel lowbie characters. They are not for reducing zergs.
Players can fix this issue themselves by joining another server that is bigger if they want to win, or join a smaller server that fights in small groups vs other small groups.
Yah.. I know. Unfortunately, it will have to be a request for added feature into custom arenas. I don’t think Anet’s done with them yet. If they build it right, we may end up using them…
I recon that using a scaling mechanic would level the playing field and make the game more fun. If you have a 30+ group attacking a keep (a supposibly hard to attack target). The defenders are 10 strong this would for example mean that the zerg players could be level 20 and the defenders level 80.
This could do the same as zone caps for pve. there is some balance and challenge. so the zerg would not matter and player skill not numbers becomes the point of WvW. I keep stating this because my guild prodominantly play WvW and it’s a fun place when we meet groups of a similar size. but this will slow errod support for the game and stagnate as Warhammer online did if it is not kept fun. Long term game play works because the balence is right not because a new toy is put in for a short time .
Look at EVE online, it has lasting appeal because of constant new building blocks adding to the experience not short term shinies that are of no change to the the issues that put the players off.
Like also the queues to get into WvW I know the server pop can affect that but surely the numbers the server can take should reflect a realistic percentage of server population.
it’s really just a matter of time before the zerg balances itself out – truth is unbalanced matches are not fun at all – the op servers will get bored of fighting the same people – and either leave or spread out – and the lower servers will have more fun and become more strategic because it’s more balanced – eventually the op servers will catch on to this and balance the servers in search of a real fight. IMO The game is already there and works great – and really shouldn’t change to cater to the players in the op servers that need some time to figure this out. lol
the more anet caters to the imbalance – the less wvw will look like the wvw that made them go tier 1 to begin with.
consider that ….if they are fighting an empty map – they aren’t gaining wvw rank because there is no more property to take or people to kill.
IBM PC XT 4.77mhz w/turbo oc@ 8mhz 640kb windows 3.1 hayes 56k seagate 20 meg HD mda@720x350 pixels
I’d like to see a speed penalty applied to zergs. Say, when X number of players from X server are in the same general area, apply a “Zerg Debuff” that prevents speed buffs from being applied.
The zerging is ANets fault. They designed a WvW system that requires no real strategy or effort. There’s no linear control method forcing players to defend ground they take for example. There’s no incentive to defend at all for that matter. On top of this they design the whole game around low count AE and a reliance on buffs that revolve around small circles on the ground. Healing in particular reinforces the zerg mentality because you need to stay balled up to get outside heals.
Simply changing the map layout and ruleset to force players to defend places they took over so they can continue attacking towers and keeps deeper into enemy lines would solve a lot of the zerging problems.
you and 4 friends are fighting an enemy group of say 8 players, it’s a hard battle but you guys are hanging in there, downing two and getting a stomp off, most of your health bars are floating around 40-50% but you persevere and refuse to give up, this is a great fight!
Then 12 other players from your server show up to help, enter range of this health scaling mechanic and suddenly your team’s hp plummets to <10% and you all get wiped.
How much fun would that be?
What kind of exchanges do you think would go on afterwards between the first 5 players and the friendlies that showed up to “help”?
If Anet would create an additional sep map like the JPs for GvG without buffs etcpp. then all other players could zerg/blob however they like and would not interfear with guilds seeking for good fights in that separate map. Thereof the whole discussion of zerging becomes more or less obsolete imo?
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If Anet would create an additional sep map like the JPs for GvG without buffs etcpp. then all other players could zerg/blob however they like and would not interfear with guilds seeking for good fights in that separate map. Thereof the whole discussion of zerging becomes more or less obsolete imo?
no, as there are more than just those two types of players in WvW.
How about people get on public TS/Vent whatever, find a good commander, learn why organized zerg vs zerg combat is fun and stop trying to come up with dumb ideas to punish a playstyle they don’t like?
The problem is something that could have been fixed by simple pathing. The problem is the ruins are way too accessible. Each node should have been time consuming so that it was a major loss of time should an entire zerg attempt to “zerg” the nodes, placing other defenses at risk as well as wasting time on possible attacks. As it stands now a zerg can just pass through on the way to an objective without losing much time at all.
stop trying to come up with dumb ideas to punish a playstyle they don’t like?
It’s less about “punishing a play style they don’t like” and more about “preventing that play style from impeding all the other play styles that ppl like”
How about people get on public TS/Vent whatever, find a good commander, learn why organized zerg vs zerg combat is fun and stop trying to come up with dumb ideas to punish a playstyle they don’t like?
Why punishment? Dont get u… I am talking of an additional feature within WvW whereas everything else remains the same as now? I got personally no probs with organized zerg-fights… but you hear all the complaints for weeks and months, no?
WvW is for various playstyles designed (just referring to all those threads in the past 12 months)
I was not aware zerging prevented anything. Sounds more like people want the game changed to focus on THEIR preferred playstyle because they cannot or do not want to adapt themselves.
It’s a punishment because people keep coming up with various penalties to massive grouping, like in this very thread. Trying to discourage a playstyle because o.m.g. not enough people play the way they want to play WvW.
I was not aware zerging prevented anything. Sounds more like people want the game changed to focus on THEIR preferred playstyle because they cannot or do not want to adapt themselves.
It’s a punishment because people keep coming up with various penalties to massive grouping, like in this very thread. Trying to discourage a playstyle because o.m.g. not enough people play the way they want to play WvW.
It sounds like you want the game not to change because it focuses on YOUR preferred playstyle because you cannot or do not want to adapt.
Zerging has been, is, and forever will be the primary strategy to any and all PvP content in any MMO. This is the first that uses it to the near exclusion of everything else though. It’s also the only one where ANet appears to be deliberately designing the game to enforce zerging.
I was not aware zerging prevented anything. Sounds more like people want the game changed to focus on THEIR preferred playstyle because they cannot or do not want to adapt themselves.
It’s a punishment because people keep coming up with various penalties to massive grouping, like in this very thread. Trying to discourage a playstyle because o.m.g. not enough people play the way they want to play WvW.
It sounds like you want the game not to change because it focuses on YOUR preferred playstyle because you cannot or do not want to adapt.
Zerging has been, is, and forever will be the primary strategy to any and all PvP content in any MMO. This is the first that uses it to the near exclusion of everything else though. It’s also the only one where ANet appears to be deliberately designing the game to enforce zerging.
You bet. You know why? When I bought the game WvW was advertised as having large scale epic battles. That’s what it was all about. That IS the focus. There is still place for roaming and havoc squads, they play an important role, but there is absolutely no reason why the focus should be taken away from the zerg and WvW should degenerate into a series of small squad based fights all over the map.
spend a week trying to play WvW while not joining/following any groups over 5.
let me know if you still feel the same way.
lol you think I never roam? How about instead you spend a week on TS with a solid organized zerg fighting other zergs? Or is the unavailability of such a group the core of your problem?
but there is absolutely no reason why the focus should be taken away from the zerg and WvW should degenerate into a series of small squad based fights all over the map.
“degenerate” is a pretty strong and emotional word choice. it’s also pretty insulting to anyone that might happen to like such small squad based fights all over the map.
I was not aware zerging prevented anything. Sounds more like people want the game changed to focus on THEIR preferred playstyle because they cannot or do not want to adapt themselves.
It’s a punishment because people keep coming up with various penalties to massive grouping, like in this very thread. Trying to discourage a playstyle because o.m.g. not enough people play the way they want to play WvW.
It sounds like you want the game not to change because it focuses on YOUR preferred playstyle because you cannot or do not want to adapt.
Zerging has been, is, and forever will be the primary strategy to any and all PvP content in any MMO. This is the first that uses it to the near exclusion of everything else though. It’s also the only one where ANet appears to be deliberately designing the game to enforce zerging.
You bet. You know why? When I bought the game WvW was advertised as having large scale epic battles. That’s what it was all about. That IS the focus. There is still place for roaming and havoc squads, they play an important role, but there is absolutely no reason why the focus should be taken away from the zerg and WvW should degenerate into a series of small squad based fights all over the map.
^ This +1.
Large epic siege filled battles were the selling point of WvW. Albeit I don’t agree with some of implementations of siege mechanics, but that’s the overall idea of WvW.
If you’re in a roaming group you should easily have the mobility to escape from the zerg, I know we do whenever a big ol’ zerg comes rolling into the camp we’re flipping, unless we just happen to be fooling around and not paying attention lol.
I don’t have any problem with people zerging…however…the population imbalances that leads to zergs that other servers can never ever match I think is a big issue and needs to be addressed at some point.
but there is absolutely no reason why the focus should be taken away from the zerg and WvW should degenerate into a series of small squad based fights all over the map.
“degenerate” is a pretty strong and emotional word choice. it’s also pretty insulting to anyone that might happen to like such small squad based fights all over the map.
ps: your fun is not more important than my fun.
Well sorry for putting a bit of emotion into my posts. Do you also feel the same way about people who employ the term “blobbing”? I still don’t see how zerging is preventing you from having your type of fun. Small scale fights are still present in WvW. Just don’t look for them next to a zerg.
WvW population imbalance is a whole other issue and will not be solved with penalties to massive combat, unfortunately.
I can see some people just love running around in a ZERG. I mean I have when I was just myself and it was rather boring. I mean I follow the big group and we were in stone mist and the centre chamber. the aoe was so daft that no one(in this instance) could move throught the corridor to engage the other group.
I also noticed a lagg spike when they came in and I couldn’t cast. Well I could bore you with my computer spec, but it’s running crysis 3 and arma 3 in ultra with full distances and no lagg, even online. So it’s not my computer being slow. I also couldn’t really enjoy it because the groups avalanched over each other and there was no contest so you run away or die. So the visual effects are all you get. Now you understand my issues with it.
That’s my opinion. You love the zerg good for you, but lests be honest you probably find safety in numbers not a challenge.
Now to the point.
I have a real problem with long queues to get in the zone. Also my guild can field 15 players all full exotic etc. but when we roam looking for a good fight there aren’t many to be had. We run from zergs (very boring) and meet smaller groups (not a good fight). I have tried to defend a keep with 3 groups about my guild size and the zerg stops us fighting from the walls and we can’t even slow them down at chock points. I know you’ll say we’re not good but hey this isn’t my job it’s suppose to be fun right. I think fortifications are supposed to aid the defender right? (these really don’t).
So what I was saying was if you scale it to allow some balence or maybe remove the loot drops and just let us all fight we will see the zerg spread and people can fight each other for fun. Because less face it if you can’t hold anything and can’t fight em and can’t really run from them (It’s harder than you think) then the game will stagnate heck one of the most veteran hardcore rvr/wvw guilds just left the game and many are moving to avoid the issues I’ve mentioned.
honestly, wvw is fun …. it’s great to be able to jump into the game and just join a friendly group that doesn’t judge your build / demand you do this or that. you jump in a zerg and bam, you are on an instant adventure!! Dungeons don’t have that, neither do most areas of pve. wvw is instant action.
I don’t think Anet expected it to be this popular, and for the wvw’rs to take it so serious as to flood specific servers…..
I like to look at all sides of the picture – and really think in the end it depends on the players balancing out the game – it’s unfortunate that anet would have to place requirements and restrictions because people won’t voluntarily help balance the matches.
the orb was fun till it was exploited, zerging is fun, till it became unbalanced, wvw is fun until people started transferring to grief the other server ….it’s like wvw is so much fun….anet needs to keep us from wrecking it with rules that inevitably wreck it – such a catch 22
it’s a very “I drink because I’m sad, and I’m sad because I drink” scenario.
IBM PC XT 4.77mhz w/turbo oc@ 8mhz 640kb windows 3.1 hayes 56k seagate 20 meg HD mda@720x350 pixels
Yep i agree.
I do not understand how people dont see that ballistas are the answer to countering a zerg.
I play as a commander engineer (which is commonly thought as under powered).
There have been times where I have been in a guild team of 4/5 players and we have been defending against a mini zerg of around 20-25 players.
Generally the lack of communication gets them killed, we simply set up a ballista or two on a bridge or other choke point and have a couple of arrow carts set up on the tower we are defending to prevent rushing the ballista.
The zerg comes over the group like ‘woahaha we gonna stomp’, suddenly i command for spreadshot from our 2 ballistas…
all of a sudden, the 20 man mini zerg is now the 8 surviving players on 3/4 hp.
This is before you even take into account the fact we are using standard ballistas, imagine the same scenario with superior ballistas
Yep i agree.
I do not understand how people dont see that ballistas are the answer to countering a zerg.
I play as a commander engineer (which is commonly thought as under powered).
There have been times where I have been in a guild team of 4/5 players and we have been defending against a mini zerg of around 20-25 players.
Generally the lack of communication gets them killed, we simply set up a ballista or two on a bridge or other choke point and have a couple of arrow carts set up on the tower we are defending to prevent rushing the ballista.
The zerg comes over the group like ‘woahaha we gonna stomp’, suddenly i command for spreadshot from our 2 ballistas…
all of a sudden, the 20 man mini zerg is now the 8 surviving players on 3/4 hp.
This is before you even take into account the fact we are using standard ballistas, imagine the same scenario with superior ballistas
Apparently you play on a smaller server or don’t know what a zerg is. Firing a ballista into a SoR zerg is like -fill in the blank- into the ocean.
You know what, I like to zerg…yep I do, even if everyone on this forum hates me…its great fun…also I know I am not on my own because I seem to be surrounded by 10-100+ others who like zerging too…
I have seen a few posts that point to Anet bringing in changes that will effectively destroy zergs fullstop…
Trust me if they bring those in, it will destroy WvW…it involves nerfing loot to the extent you don’t get any if your group is in a bigger size then 10…it won’t be popular at all…
WvW is about LARGE scale combat, not 1v1 or 5v5, that’s what PvP is for, I wish some players would get that and stop trying to change WvW.
You know what, I like to zerg…yep I do, even if everyone on this forum hates me…its great fun…also I know I am not on my own because I seem to be surrounded by 10-100+ others who like zerging too…
I have seen a few posts that point to Anet bringing in changes that will effectively destroy zergs fullstop…
Trust me if they bring those in, it will destroy WvW…it involves nerfing loot to the extent you don’t get any if your group is in a bigger size then 10…it won’t be popular at all…
WvW is about LARGE scale combat, not 1v1 or 5v5, that’s what PvP is for, I wish some players would get that and stop trying to change WvW.
No, you’re not alone. I like to zerg too. The whole point of the game is to form huge armies and do battle. That’s how it’s designed to play. For me, it’s the big selling-point of GW2 over any other MMO.
I’m not interested in playing a duelling build – that just involves skulking around looking for people to gank. Small team play places demands on time and commitment I’m not willing to give.
I like my PvP to be huge, glorious and above all casual.
Playing on a lower ranked server I can say the matches do not even out; one side is always far superior in numbers & score over the other two. We keep getting matched up against Blacktide or Far Shiverpeaks and generally find it difficult to compete; their a certain times of day we can hold our own and generally that is when the majority of the oppositions players are offline. Another factor are players/guilds not liking the uneven competition and server hop as we have lost more than one guild in recent times. Our server got matched up with another one around 10 places higher in rank a few months back and it was far from fun, their numbers were so vast they were able to place people in every tower & keep they took which meant the majority of time we tried to reclaim territory a huge zerg would come rushing in & wipe us out.
I don’t know if it’s possible to balance the game like you see in battlefield 3 as an example, where sides are automatically balanced if there are too many players on one side. I suppose it would be impossible considering we are talking whole guilds. Funny thing is though I have only ever seen two guilds actually running independently on our server in the 8 months i’ve been playing.
I want to state that i’m not against battling zergs or being part of one – unfortunately it’s about server popularity.
Well there is a way to “balance” it better but neither Anet or any of the players will agree to it. Cap the population per server on each borderlands to the same number as the server with the lowest population on each particular borderlands. So if Server 1 has 100 people on Eternal Battlegrounds then no other server can have over 100.
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