Guild Wars 2

Catapults through walls replace Rams through gates when the enemy has too many Arrow Carts.

Remember the gate isn’t the only way into a tower or keep.

Wintuo.1356:

not asking you to do this but why not have the guild go together, i mean the same pve stuff is on every server if things arent fun where you are why wouldnt you try someplace new together, you might like it, if not u can go back in a week. Its not always zergfests that win, put up a great defense and 20 can defend against 40. If you have 30 and the enemy has 40 u can either wear them down or send that 10 to take other enemy locations behind their zerg, there is strategy up here its not all zergs.

I had some nice victories today (only played wvw lvled 70-75 so quite some succesfull events). Problem is when one team gets hammered so hard they have no defence anymore. At start of today we had our share of supplies, keeps, towers. All of that is gone now. We have no rotation anymore (grab supplies, visit next keep, take, fall back defend, retake supplies, steal them). I love this rotation, it’s what makes the fun of wvw. But now only the biggest servers have access to it imo. As they can rotate tru everything.

Just my opinion. I’m open to suggestions. Tbh considering server change. If only for a week to grind all the necessary badges together.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Gw1 jade quarry was not pvp at all. Yes player could kill player, but npcs (mobs) where also present. EXACTLY same as wvw.

And arenanet always claims ‘balance over everything’-pilosohpy (look al all the nerfs). 500 vs 100 (or less) ppl is not balanced sorrie. Why do i suggest low populated group should be able to penetrade arrow cart guarded field? Because it’s more fun. More variation. Everything should be able to kill everything. Just like they state, every profession can play any role. Now the moment you have people with arrow carts, vs people without the battle ends. You know the result with 90% certainty. Tell me the fun of that.

I thought people did wvw mainly for the massive people vs people, with the area involved also as extra fun. But it seems there’s a lot of Turned based players here. Who prefer pure Age of empires mmo gameplay then pvp.

If player skills had no meaning in wvw we wouldnt be able to use them. Meteor shower was nerfed in last beta. And it’s certainly not because pve. Only reason they can have ‘nerfed it’ is wvw. So player skills (and balance) certainly is meant to be part of wvw gameplay. Yet so far, reading all of this, it’s ‘equipment vs equipment’ battle.

Actually, WvW isn’t meant to be balanced combat. Sorry that I don’t have any quotes from the devs handy, but I’ve seen that tossed around here enough times to be certain of it. If things are getting nerfed for PvP, it’s for sPvP/tPvP, not WvW.

I haven’t played GW1 in a long time but I looked up Jade Quarry and, like structured PvP, it’s 8 vs. 8. There are NPCs in sPvP as well, so I think that’s your closest comparison. I can see Anet adding more sPvP options in the future, so if that’s what you want you’ll get it.

Apologies if you had a misconception of what WvW, this is how it’s advertised on the website so I’m not sure how you got that idea:

Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

That said, it’s not at all comparable to Age of Empires, except in that it requires the use of strategy. But whereas AoE strategy is strictly in the hands of one player, or a couple of allies, WvW is about communication and coordination between many players. You aren’t the one issuing the commands, you’re one of the soldiers on the ground contributing to the cause; you are playing a role.

It may sound fun for you to be able to take down siege that other people have put effort into (getting blueprints and supply), but it’s not necessarily fun for them to watch one player thwart their efforts by simply pressing one button.

SoggyFrog.4170:

Actually, WvW isn’t meant to be balanced combat. Sorry that I don’t have any quotes from the devs handy, but I’ve seen that tossed around here enough times to be certain of it. If things are getting nerfed for PvP, it’s for sPvP/tPvP, not WvW.

The Elementalist nerfs were definitely because of sPVP not WvW.

Meteor shower useless in spvp so that (for this skill, with others I agree) not true. This nerf has only use in wvw and pve. And pve i doubt it’s meant for that. Damage is laughable in most pve content.

Well 8 vs 8 structured never is as fun/variated/chaotic as 100+ vs 100+. So no thanks from me for that. Secondly is it’s again ‘timer’ like in gw1 with waiting time nah. I like the wvw idea’s, but imbalance in numbers greatly concerns me. Perhaps i want massive structured pvp, i dunno. Or I don’t know how fun wvw is because I keep loosing (generally). With my guild being more and more inactive, as is the server, perhaps a transfer is in order.

It seems now that orbs have been removed, siege are being blamed for snowballing. If not siege, numbers. I’m not particularly fond of this trend of blaming things for losing.

Honestly, and as much as it kind of pains me to offer it up, if your server is so small it can’t field an arrow cart, switch servers. Take your whole guild, and friends that’ll listen, and just up and leave.

I did it about a week and a half ago or so and couldn’t be happier with the choice. I don’t really like that it degenerated to the point that I tried that, as I’m not historically much of a server hopper(at one time I was the best tank on the worst server in WoW, and our whole guild held fast in this position even though we could’ve probably switched servers and been much more).

WvW is made of numbers. A large, more or less full battleground at most times yields the best play experience you can find there. Siege weapons are suddenly powerful tactical tools, not skirmisher decimating kill machines. Large groups can be answered with large groups.

The sooner the smaller servers get completely abandoned/merged to make bigger servers, the better it will be for any WvW participants, IMO.

And yes, I do think that Anet should monitor and properly spread the populations with transfers like these so that things balance out better. Rather than the mass guild “superserver” creation that the first free transfers created.

Weapon siege are not the problem. What you are proposing is very similar to the structured pvp we already have but in larger scale.

I tried to go to a low ranked server for WvW and it really sucked, I understand your frustration. There is no organization, nobody want to invest in it, and the maps are never enough populated to have any chance against their opponent.

If you want to have fun on WvW you have different solutions:

- You can change of server (don’t blame it is a solution and I have to propose it^^)
- You can create or enter in a guild where people do want to invest in WvW
- You do what i did, you create a little group of 5 people, and then you take supplies camp and make everything possible to cripple ennemies (that is fun)
- Or you can try to organize people on the map and give them enough confidence in you to put siege weapon and to listen your strategies (Encouraging people is part of WvW)

About repairing, you’re right it is a serious issue in WvW. Be patient, I think devs are working on it. What I do about that is some farming even if I don’t like it, I do it awaiting for a solution proposed by devs.

In your 500 vs 100 scenario, yes its not balanced but tough cookie. That server will get moved up and your server will face an opponent more closer to your activity/population.

Ofcourse player skill matters. You can argue that 5 players should be able to destroy 50 players, but remember that those 50 players are NOT static scripted PVE mobs you can “outsmart” by tapping dodge once. Numbers win in the long run, always. That’s balanced, and there’s no way to make it “more balanced” to give the losers a fighting chance so they can feel good. Why? Because players are people not AI scripts.

Removing stuff from the game and dumbing it down further isn’t the solution.

What are arrowcarts? Anti-personnel siege weapons. You charge into 5-10 of anti-personnel siege weapons, what do you expect will happen? That you’ll leap across 6 buildings skillfully stabbing 345 players like in Assassin’s Creed and destroy the siege weapons with barely a scratch or two?

Further, assuming ANet makes it all like that, whats fun for the 345 players setting up a choke-point with arrowcarts if 1 guy can just waltz through and destroy all their efforts?

50 vs 20 you will never win unless you use some extremely clever play. Arrow carts in that situation means nothing. Your 20 will not win.

Easy fix for you. Quit playing this game. Planetside 2 comes out on the 20th and there are no Arrow Carts.

If the enemy owns the map….arrowcarts are the least of your issues, and removing them (lol) would do nothing about that.

I disagree if any siege weapon is way over the top I would have to say it would be the treb, placed in the right spots 2 can take down entire towers without having to spend too much man power in a hour. Also they can be placed in unreachable places which means you have to take down the fully upgraded keep or you’ll forever be trebbed.

Arrow carts are usually AoE-able due to their field of vision requirement to fire.

ok phoebe, check it out. i love WvW, and i can see that you’re trying to love it to but are just in a tough situation. so i’m going to do what i can to help you out here.

first thing’s first, you’re outnumbered. the direct approach isn’t going to work. your primary goal is to split up the enemy forces. if they have siege set up facing at the main entrance from your spawn area, make use of one of the side exits. preferably, both. you said you had about 20 people to work with. that’s plenty. split them up into four teams of 5. the key here is to start small, and be patient. don’t go straight for the castle. don’t go for a keep. don’t even go for a tower. aim for supply camps. hit, take, move. guerrilla tactics. move from one to another, and not in any sort of straight line or predictable pattern. make it seem to be random, so they can’t predict your movements and prepare an ambush. one on the north side of the map, one on the east side of the map, 2 on the west side. or something along those lines. make sure the flips happen around the same time. if one camp changes, no big deal a couple people can go change that back. if 4 camps flip at the same time, then even more in another few minutes, it’s suddenly a whole different story. they have to break up to get them back, and there’s the chance they could think you have a much larger presence there than you actually do. this will put them back on their heels a bit.

now, leave 3 teams in the field, and have one waypoint back to the spawn area. while those 3 teams keep up harrassment duty, have that 4th team scatter a bit, and do some scouting. they’re going to be looking for something very specific. a tower, preferably still with wooden walls, with one wall that can be damaged that’s in a relatively hard to see area, and has no defenders. because if they hold the whole map, they can’t possibly have defenders in each area, as well as being able to field teams to take back all of the camps you guys just flipped and continue to flip. once this ideal area has been found, bring all of the scouting group together there and set up a catapult right against that wall. before you start to use it, however, you need to set up a distraction. have the 3 other groups attack a tower on the other side of the map. yes, it will be a suicide mission. inform them of that before they start, it’s only fair. now, once the orange swords show up, all enemy attention will be drawn there, and you can start firing that catapult. it won’t create orange swords. it will create white swords that a bit tougher to see on the minimap, and often go entirely unnoticed. make sure that team doesn’t engage in any unnecessary combat, and doesn’t use any sort of ability with flashy visual effects. you’re on a ninja mission, you must be ninja like. now, the 3 teams that are handling the distraction don’t necessarily need to fight to win. they just need to fight to stall. anything they can do to make their fight last longer, the better chance of success you’ll have. now, if this all goes according to plan, your ninja team will be able to get in and capture the tower. have everyone restock there if there are any supplies in the place, and get out as quickly as possible because the other team is probably going to come rushing there the instant it’s flipped.

(more)

which…… leaves many many other areas open to be taken. you guys may with to practice this stage for a while until you have it perfected. yu’ll make a boatload of cash from flipping the camps and the individual towers, and the price of a catapult and repairs will be covered easily.

once you’ve gotten that mastered, your next step is to pick a tower to defend. for this, you’ll need more siege (a catapult behind the door, some arrow carts along the inner railing of the walls) and most of the placement is really trial and error. when it gets attacked and taken, and it will quite often at first, don’t get discouraged. watch where they attacked from, and how they attacked. then think about what can be done to counter that particular attack method. then add that to your overall defensive scheme to that particular tower. it will take time to perfect, and there will be many many failures along the way, but you will make a little bit more progress each time. and a little bit more profit each time. consider those profits to be just an investment toward your next attempt. eventually, you’ll figure out your ideal defense, and be able to create death fields of your own, and that’s when the real morale and monetary gains go through the roof. once you have that tower’s defense pretty well figured out, you can start on the camp that sends yaks to it. don’t worry about upgrading the tower at this point. you need to be able you can firmly secure both areas before you can worry about that. once you’ve done that, take a look at the areas that are closest to your tower, and look for second area to claim, preferably with a treb you set up inside the tower you already own. then, when your defenders are keeping the attackers at bay, you can have a single person on your treb counter punching, so to speak. the first few times might also be a bit rough. your treb might not be set in the right place to reach. it could be in an area that’s vulnerable to AoE. the key is to never give up. you will get knocked down a lot, but you have to observe how you were knocked down, and be ready to prevent it the next time. do everything you can to keep morale high, and always be encouraging. “good try everyone. we’ll be ready for that the next time they try it” goes a long way.

also, make sure you don’t just rush back to the same spot immediately after a failed defense. there’s no shame in waiting 15 minutes for the situation to reset itself before starting over. it’s called playing possum. then start the process all over again. remember to keep what works, and eliminate what doesn’t. and even if you don’t end up taking a large portion of the map, you’ll still have a lot of fun holding onto that one area that you do have. my favorite moments are made up from the matches where we’ve only been able to hold 1 tower on any of the maps, and fought for hours at a time to defend it with everything we had.

oh, and you don’t really need a VOIP server to be successful. it’s a nice tool, but you can adapt to where you can work around not having it. personally, i never bother with them, for multiple reasons, and i’m still able to get good results. both while leading and while following. there are tricks you can develop to work around needing any voice chat. though, i’ve talked for long enough, and that’s really a seperate issue for another time.

While removing Arrow carts, please remove golems, ballista’s, catapults, rams, trebuchets, and such.

Also please remove portals, AOE’s, stuns, and anything else, which proves you can’t just PvDoor.

while you are at it (removing arrowcart), can anet also remove doors/gates? so difficult to ppl to break into towers and keeps especially when we have outmanned buff.

oh wait, thats not all…

why dun anet remove catapults, trebs, ballistas, golems…

oops, sorry, just saw Mishi’s post… great minds think alike…

I just have to say, for the record, that attacking a gate with a catapult (as in defending your gate against rams by attacking it with a cat from the inside) makes no sense and should hurt your gate instead lol.

Hitting your own gate with a large rock… wha?

Perhaps i have need of killing an arrow cart to feel redemption. Now they only cause certain dead Or use one on my enemies.

It’s sad but basically the conclusion is wvw requires very active server. Guess i’ll change. Two of my guildies are in Desolation wich of course is full Lot of German servers wich I won’t join cause i don’t speak german, lol.

I just wanna have a little fun in wvw. (that means any succesfull event). To bad defending doens’t yield succesfull events. We defended 4 hours, and never got karma/exp for it. Perhaps that makes frustration of underdog a little bigger.

Perhaps in the more balanced server battles, arrow carts have their use and are fun. Its probably the frustration of being a to inactive wvw server, that causes this. Still this strenghtens the conclusion small servers have almost no business in wvw. Wich may not be so bad, since the more ppl vs ppl, the more fun it sounds as. Anet can still add small structured pvp later for smaller servers i guess.

Xandax.1753:

If the enemy owns the map….arrowcarts are the least of your issues, and removing them (lol) would do nothing about that.

We took many captures point, with heavy defence underdog ftw. The only thing they didnt have when we rotated to like 20+ buildings, was an large amount of arrow cart. As you may notice in my later posts, I’m starting to see that they are a part of wvw and cannot be deleted. Still though for the smallest servers in the list (vs bigger ones), the difference between fun, and rotation, event succes, rewards, is has the enemie arrow carts or not. That was my experience yesterday. But perhaps removing is to drastic, and a solution for the big vs small servers imbalance must be found. Perhaps time will automatic balance this out as all wvw people will join the (few) bigger servers.

Mikitten058:

While removing Arrow carts, please remove golems, ballista’s, catapults, rams, trebuchets, and such.

Also please remove portals, AOE’s, stuns, and anything else, which proves you can’t just PvDoor.

This adds nothing to the discussion, and if you read anything else then the title, you might respond different. It’s also clear the two of you play on bigger server and are addicted to your defensive siege tools. Anyone who only played on bigger servers cannot understand this issue.

Phoebe Ascension.8437, what I do not understand is why you are attacking a fortified position that is protected with superior numbers in the first place?

Even if there were no arrow carts in that situation trying to attack 50 people with 20 head on won’t work.

The arrow carts are not the issue in this situation.

You could, you know, ignore the fortified position by going around it and attacking somewhere else which would cause some in that position (if not all) to move away from it. Or, if they didn’t, you’d get a free objective that wasn’t defended.

What server are you on?

The OP writes:
Arrow carts are overpowered. The winning team always has most. And it makes capturing for the underdog next to impossible.

Siege equipment “rots” if it is not used for 30 minutes. Teams that build a lot of arrow carts when there is not a fight in progress or imminent are pretty much micturating their gold away.

EDIT
———
An arrowcart has been a godsend to me when I was solo-defending a tower. I don’t think it is true that this siege equipment always favors the currently winning side.

All of Eternal battlefield is taken by major zergs (both other forces focusing on us for obvious reasons). Our last castle stands, and the only way to move forward, is well to move forward agains the heavy defence Basically we must give up last waypoint spawning in eternal battlefield and do nothing, or fight this ‘impossible’ fight. Hope one of the two is attacked by the other giving us room to advance. Still after 3 hours i just quit because nothing happened, no kills, no exp, no karma, nothing But it was only thing we could do, retake Langor (southeast map).

Obed.7629:

The OP writes:
Arrow carts are overpowered. The winning team always has most. And it makes capturing for the underdog next to impossible.

Siege equipment “rots” if it is not used for 30 minutes. Teams that build a lot of arrow carts when there is not a fight in progress or imminent are pretty much micturating their gold away.

Good to know. At least the opposing team looses lot of gold 32x gold/karma cost an hour at least

“50 people (on higher ground) + much equipment (and trebuchet) vs 20 people no equipment (but can build them). You tell me like it’s a breeze but you forget again one important thing. The enemy will kill the equipment before it is build. We cannot counter in time.”

OK, hold on here. You’re attacking superior numbers in a fortified and defensible position, and you think the problem is that they have arrow carts?

No.

The problem is that you’re tactically clueless for doing this in the first place. Here’s what you need to do. Go out (or check the internet) and find a copy of Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”. Read it.

Then you’ll realize why arrow carts aren’t the problem.

Well i’m sure that book has no strategy, that can win in the mentioned situations (20 vs 50+ equipment). So that won’t solve anything.

We took a keep against all odds. The book probably say ‘fall back you cannot win this’. Not all victories are by strategy. Sometimes courage and willpower is enough, wich is what kept us standing in the end. If they even bothered a little bit they should’ve have overrun us days ago. Pure player skills (kinda pvp thus, ignoring equipment), I dare say the opponents are weaker. The moment it’s same numbers vs same numbers we almost always won.

But yeah the conclusion is already there. A small server is doomed to loose. Strategy or no strategy, skilled players or no skill players. No statement ‘you must do it like this’ will change that So server change is imminent as I want some wvw fun.

Are Arrow carts overpowered? No when every server has full access to supplies/equipment. Because as many of you stated ‘use siege weaponry to counter’. Are they overpowered against a trampled server (lost all keeps/towers/camps), I think so. But then this is an isolated issue, that is more about balancing the right servers against each other.

WvW is not supposed to be “fair” the fairness is when you get stomped, you are supposed to either drop to a better match-up next week or the stompeee raises to a higher challenge next week. It’s not arrow carts, you are up against stronger forces and have not yet mastered countering them yet, or lack the brute numbers to compete at that tier, or your opponent is in the wrong tier.

Every week the server match ups gets closer to evened out, but takes time., and even still there will always be some weird upset or monekey wrench thrown in, hence the dynamic nature of the set up.

Phoebe Ascension writes:
The book probably say ‘fall back you cannot win this’.

The book says fight on your terms, not the enemy’s.

Thd TL;DR version of The Art of War:
Attack when the enemy retreats, retreat when he attacks, attack when and where he does not expect it, attack where he is weak.

Just to give you a hint of what happened yesterday. Our score was 48k vs 50k vs 78k. Now it’s 56k vs 79k vs 88k. Epic loss yesterday Clearly underdog. Basically it was helms deep. We fought what we could, but now lost.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Well i’m sure that book has no strategy, that can win in the mentioned situations (20 vs 50+ equipment). So that won’t solve anything.

…

Ugh.

You’ve completely failed to comprehend that this is exactly why you’re losing these battles. You’re pre-destined to lose them. Period. You’re expected to lose them. Siege isn’t the problem. Your tactics are. Let’s slow this down a bit.

You want to attack a superior force. All things being equal, this is strike one.
You want to attack a fortified position. Strike two.
You don’t (or won’t) understand why these result in a losing situation. Strike three.

Think. If they’re there, they’re not somewhere else. Attack where they’re not. Starve them out. Beat them with points. Who cares if they hold a keep if the rest of the map is yours? If you want to charge head first into a fortified position with inferior numbers… you can’t blame the game for the inevitable results.

Mikitten058:

While removing Arrow carts, please remove golems, ballista’s, catapults, rams, trebuchets, and such.

Also please remove portals, AOE’s, stuns, and anything else, which proves you can’t just PvDoor.

that what i usually call trolling. But anyway

Phantom.8130:

which…… leaves many many other areas open to be taken. you guys may with to practice this stage for a while until you have it perfected. yu’ll make a boatload of cash from flipping the camps and the individual towers, and the price of a catapult and repairs will be covered easily.

once you’ve gotten that mastered, your next step is to pick a tower to defend. for this, you’ll need more siege (a catapult behind the door, some arrow carts along the inner railing of the walls) and most of the placement is really trial and error. when it gets attacked and taken, and it will quite often at first, don’t get discouraged. watch where they attacked from, and how they attacked. then think about what can be done to counter that particular attack method. then add that to your overall defensive scheme to that particular tower. it will take time to perfect, and there will be many many failures along the way, but you will make a little bit more progress each time. and a little bit more profit each time. consider those profits to be just an investment toward your next attempt. eventually, you’ll figure out your ideal defense, and be able to create death fields of your own, and that’s when the real morale and monetary gains go through the roof. once you have that tower’s defense pretty well figured out, you can start on the camp that sends yaks to it. don’t worry about upgrading the tower at this point. you need to be able you can firmly secure both areas before you can worry about that. once you’ve done that, take a look at the areas that are closest to your tower, and look for second area to claim, preferably with a treb you set up inside the tower you already own. then, when your defenders are keeping the attackers at bay, you can have a single person on your treb counter punching, so to speak. the first few times might also be a bit rough. your treb might not be set in the right place to reach. it could be in an area that’s vulnerable to AoE. the key is to never give up. you will get knocked down a lot, but you have to observe how you were knocked down, and be ready to prevent it the next time. do everything you can to keep morale high, and always be encouraging. “good try everyone. we’ll be ready for that the next time they try it” goes a long way.

also, make sure you don’t just rush back to the same spot immediately after a failed defense. there’s no shame in waiting 15 minutes for the situation to reset itself before starting over. it’s called playing possum. then start the process all over again. remember to keep what works, and eliminate what doesn’t. and even if you don’t end up taking a large portion of the map, you’ll still have a lot of fun holding onto that one area that you do have. my favorite moments are made up from the matches where we’ve only been able to hold 1 tower on any of the maps, and fought for hours at a time to defend it with everything we had.

oh, and you don’t really need a VOIP server to be successful. it’s a nice tool, but you can adapt to where you can work around not having it. personally, i never bother with them, for multiple reasons, and i’m still able to get good results. both while leading and while following. there are tricks you can develop to work around needing any voice chat. though, i’ve talked for long enough, and that’s really a seperate issue for another time.

This is what I call a viable strategy for small servers, you do not need to hold big keeps or every points of the map to have fun. The easiest way to have fun in WvW is to have a sense a accomplishing something nearly impossible like holding a tower with 10 ppl vs 50 organized ppl.

But don’t forget, the most important is to adapt you strategy. try to be as random as possible. You have an advantage compared to ennemies, with less people, your army is more flexible and unpredictable.

Obed.7629:

Phoebe Ascension writes:
The book probably say ‘fall back you cannot win this’.

The book says fight on your terms, not the enemy’s.

Thd TL;DR version of The Art of War:
Attack when the enemy retreats, retreat when he attacks, attack when and where he does not expect it, attack where he is weak.

I love you.

>cough< In a manly, warlike kind of blood bath way of course.

I don’t think the carts should be removed, but they are overpowered. I say this having used a cart on several occasions to almost single handedly drive back a substantial attacking force.

I would limit the number of carts on/within the walls of a fortification. Maybe 2 for towers, 2 per southern/northern side of a keep’s outer walls. Maybe 6 (but if they could be coded to be spread out) on Stonemist. Actually, maybe the better limit is an exclusion zone – no arrow cart can be build within X range of another.

They could probably us a 10%-20% damage nerf (depending if a build restriction was placed on them, like above).

People can talk tactics/strategy all they want – it can help a bit in WvW. But WvW is primarily determined by population and siege. And if you have the pop advantage, you pretty much get the siege advantage.

Arrow carts are fine. You’re complaining about arrow carts being used for exactly what arrow carts are designed for, a force multiplier for AoE antipersonnel denial.

You want to counter carts? Use one of more of the many longer-range siege options, or hell, just put together a golem squad. A server that spends 10g worth of golems can easily demolish a server that spends 50g worth of carts as long as the golem operators know how to use them.

Also note that you can (and should) spend your honor on siege, not your money. Save your money for repairs. Do jumping puzzles for blueprints. Save up blueprints and upgrade them in the MF for tough battles.

VOLKON.1290:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Well i’m sure that book has no strategy, that can win in the mentioned situations (20 vs 50+ equipment). So that won’t solve anything.

…

Ugh.

You’ve completely failed to comprehend that this is exactly why you’re losing these battles. You’re pre-destined to lose them. Period. You’re expected to lose them. Siege isn’t the problem. Your tactics are. Let’s slow this down a bit.

You want to attack a superior force. All things being equal, this is strike one.
You want to attack a fortified position. Strike two.
You don’t (or won’t) understand why these result in a losing situation. Strike three.

Think. If they’re there, they’re not somewhere else. Attack where they’re not. Starve them out. Beat them with points. Who cares if they hold a keep if the rest of the map is yours? If you want to charge head first into a fortified position with inferior numbers… you can’t blame the game for the inevitable results.

You fail to see one point of wvw. Chaos. Chaos serves in that way that many surprises can happen. If every battle was pre-destinied who wins (bigger force), then wvw would be boring and pointless. Wvw is about the battle you cannot win and still win. Look at youtube. So many guild posting ‘omg was so fun we owned them outnumbered’. Those alone proof you point wrong. But that is a whole other topic, strategy, that doesn’t really have to do with this.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

VOLKON.1290:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Well i’m sure that book has no strategy, that can win in the mentioned situations (20 vs 50+ equipment). So that won’t solve anything.

…

Ugh.

You’ve completely failed to comprehend that this is exactly why you’re losing these battles. You’re pre-destined to lose them. Period. You’re expected to lose them. Siege isn’t the problem. Your tactics are. Let’s slow this down a bit.

You want to attack a superior force. All things being equal, this is strike one.
You want to attack a fortified position. Strike two.
You don’t (or won’t) understand why these result in a losing situation. Strike three.

Think. If they’re there, they’re not somewhere else. Attack where they’re not. Starve them out. Beat them with points. Who cares if they hold a keep if the rest of the map is yours? If you want to charge head first into a fortified position with inferior numbers… you can’t blame the game for the inevitable results.

You fail to see one point of wvw. Chaos. Chaos serves in that way that many surprises can happen. If every battle was pre-destinied who wins (bigger force), then wvw would be boring and pointless. Wvw is about the battle you cannot win and still win. Look at youtube. So many guild posting ‘omg was so fun we owned them outnumbered’. Those alone proof you point wrong. But that is a whole other topic, strategy, that doesn’t really have to do with this.

There are those that succumb to chaos, and those that create order from it.

There are many problems with WvW. Arrow carts are not one of them…

Sometimes I wonder if all these “remove” threads are based around one principle.

“Please remove X so my melee build is effective and everything else is nerfed to be useless”

Trebs counter everything, even other trebs… they MUST be op…

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Mikitten058:

While removing Arrow carts, please remove golems, ballista’s, catapults, rams, trebuchets, and such.

Also please remove portals, AOE’s, stuns, and anything else, which proves you can’t just PvDoor.

This adds nothing to the discussion, and if you read anything else then the title, you might respond different. It’s also clear the two of you play on bigger server and are addicted to your defensive siege tools. Anyone who only played on bigger servers cannot understand this issue.

Actually it was sarcasm, due to their being nothing wrong with arrow carts.

In addition to that I’ve played on SBI and went to SoR back when it was in lower tier brackets, so don’t always assume.

Arrow carts are as easily destroyed, and passed by/avoided as they are set up. However to do such, you have to have people communicating well, and set plans, along with everyone working together.

Taking things out of WvW to make it easier for some, may sound like a good idea, however in reality things like arrow carts are fine as they are. It may take a bit more tactics to get past them but it is possible and done many times, every day by many players on large and small servers.

I did read, and honestly complaining that a siege is Over powered and saying their enemy always has more of them is in NO WAY a reason something should be removed from WvW.

As for AC’s: 90% of Arrow Carts are built within range of AOE’s.
Same with Ballista’s.

Trebuchets can be hit however it might take more then face smashing a wall to hit them. Sometimes it takes another treb, sometimes AOE’s, ballistas, or even a catapult.
Same for Catapults.

Use tactics over Numbers any time, any day and you will progress much better.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Well i’m sure that book has no strategy, that can win in the mentioned situations (20 vs 50+ equipment). So that won’t solve anything.

actually, that book has exactly what you need. i’ve applied what’s taught in there as often as i can in WvW and the effects have been profound. here’s a link: http://suntzusaid.com/ i highly recommend studying it as much as possible.

there isn’t anything you can’t find the inspiration to solve from SunTzu, much like all modern stories come from Shakespeare… granted not 100% accurate but pretty darn close /wink

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

you removed orbs arenanet. If your mindset is the same, and you use your logical senses (perhaps play on an underdog server for a while), then you will remove these also. Faster capturing would make wvw much, much, much more fun. (and fair since even a zerging server can be surprised then). Make it back as in gw1. Where 9-1 loosing team still has small chance to win (happened few times to me). Gw2 lead server = winning server. (most cases.) Especially with 10-20k diff in points.

Hell just remove everything and make players have to use harsh language at the other teams…

I had a gut feeling that removing orbs would lead to people wanting more removed.

Arrow carts are fine.

IMO even arrow carts above the lord in stonemist weren’t a problem for decent attackers back in the day.

dem arrow carts, shooting out so many arrows!