Guild Wars 2

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

I’m glad I am not on the dev team because petty complaining is one of my pet peeves. :D

the gaming market has some of the toxic customers in the world, the protection they get from the internet gives them safety to do it, I suggest you stay away from other mmo forums because the ones here are actually quite tamed compared to them, you cannot stop ignorance or entitlement, true, anet does not give wvw the attention and updates it needs but people tend to forget the difficulty and reality associated with it as well, wvw players are only a small fraction of the entire community and do not give anet any revenue directly aside from keeping people in the game it consumes a huge amount of resources to keep up and even more to make any major changes

people seem to forget or simply dont understand how difficult it was to remove culling from wvw or that wxp ranks are not account bound for very good reasons

SpehssMehreen.5897 are you trying to protect SkylightMoon? Do not suggest where the person should be, or not be, unless they asked for your important opinion. I did not determine that SkylightMoon was naïve after this post. Did you Spehss?

“…wvw players are only a small fraction of the entire community and do not give anet any revenue directly…”

Incorrect. We have had people on this forum [and others in game] that revealed they have spent 500$ while focused on WvW. In this way the player provides direct revenue. There was a British guy in my guild who spent 300$+ [converting currency to gems] or more buying legendary weapons on the market for combat appearances. This was a WvW player providing direct revenue. I believe there are many others.

“wvw players are only a small fraction of the entire community …” I disagree. Do you have real numbers? I don’t. In my experience large portions of the player base (on multiple servers) found themselves dragged into WvW regardless of their interests.

SkylightMoon, SpehssMehreen, both of you failed to communicate that you understand why people are angry. Do that first if you expect to have some kind of audience with the angry gamers.

problematic.9623:

SkylightMoon, SpehssMehreen, both of you failed to communicate that you understand why people are angry. Do that first if you expect to have some kind of audience with the angry gamers.

I don’t think the issue is that gamers are angry, nor is the reason(s) they are angry pertinent.

the issue would be said angry gamers not being able to express their anger in a respectful manner.

The main problem that we face in WvW or any other portion of the game/life in general is the sense of entitlement.

I play this, I own this. I want this. This is mine, not yours. It’s My Way.

It could also be a lack of patience.

I try to enjoy every aspect of Guild Wars. I don’t have alot of time to be spending playing a MMO. As an Active Service Member in the U.S. Military my time is limited, and what free time I do get is usually reserved for other things.

I enjoy Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1, because they didn’t require that I have to play every day. Or Every hour or even every week to be good at them. There was no power-creep. There was a good story, and fun to be had with my Guild Mates.

However, I will be the first to say WvW is not without problems. I could make a long list of things I feel need to be fixed. This list would start with small issues like party bugs and not being able to right click to mail/whisper/invite from my guild/friends list. (giving me only a report option for my friends is silly) all the way up to game breaking bugs like Glitched towers and blatant use of hacks and cheat programs which have yet to be addressed.

However there is a extreme sense of entitlement in the WvW population. Just reading the forums the population comes off as elitist. Remarks such as PvE kittens and Sarcastic remarks about the Living World Content don’t do any favors to win over the rest of the Populations from sPvP or PvE.

If I was a new player reading the garbage that I see here I would be put off WvW in a second. Almost all of it is hate post and sarcasm, in addition to flat out attacks at the development team. I understand that the this is common amongst forums around various MMOs. Maybe it doesn’t help that GW allows for people to buy the game once and we are stuck with them forever, almost as bad as any free to play game which is out on the market.

However, I would like to point out that if you want any one to take seriously “we,” meaning all of us have in WvW. We all need to start start acting a little more like adults and a little less like spoiled children who didn’t get the shiny new toy we wanted this year for Christmas. Lay down on the floor and kick and scream, cry and yell. But when your done throwing your little tantrum the wold will still be the exact way it was before and nothing will have changed for the better.

Lets try to be mature, and lets try to have fun. We don’t need to be any bigger kittens then we already are.

Cheers.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

problematic.9623:

SkylightMoon, SpehssMehreen, both of you failed to communicate that you understand why people are angry. Do that first if you expect to have some kind of audience with the angry gamers.

I don’t think the issue is that gamers are angry, nor is the reason(s) they are angry pertinent.

the issue would be said angry gamers not being able to express their anger in a respectful manner.

I disagree, the reasons are pertinent.

The gamers should express their anger in a respectful manner. I agree. I see constructive criticism on the forum. I also see rage cages. No one in this thread has differentiated between those who have and those who have not. You are addressing who again? Just the angry posters? All posters? The respectful angry posters?

Talyn.3295:

If I was a new player reading the garbage that I see here I would be put off WvW in a second. Almost all of it is hate post and sarcasm, in addition to flat out attacks at the development team.

I am a new player.

I bought this game because of WvW and WvW alone. (As I said elsewhere, other games do PVE better, frankly, and this goes for many other things, but WvW is a unique selling point of GW2 that noone else has.)

I did read these forums and, while there is some sarcasm and bitterness, I can’t help but notice that the vast majority of the posts on WvW were and are completely constructive and had and continue to have many great suggestions (some of which even look like they’d be easy to implement for the team, as in, the poster took the time to think how she could save the devs their time and tried to find that golden egg which would get 80% of the result with 20% of the effort).

So, there. I respectfully disagree that those criticizing WvW have to be more mature and that lack of maturedness is a great problem here. That’s not what I see at all.

Talyn.3295:

The main problem that we face in WvW or any other portion of the game/life in general is the sense of entitlement.

I play this, I own this. I want this. This is mine, not yours. It’s My Way.

It could also be a lack of patience.

I try to enjoy every aspect of Guild Wars. I don’t have alot of time to be spending playing a MMO. As an Active Service Member in the U.S. Military my time is limited, and what free time I do get is usually reserved for other things.

I enjoy Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1, because they didn’t require that I have to play every day. Or Every hour or even every week to be good at them. There was no power-creep. There was a good story, and fun to be had with my Guild Mates.

However, I will be the first to say WvW is not without problems. I could make a long list of things I feel need to be fixed. This list would start with small issues like party bugs and not being able to right click to mail/whisper/invite from my guild/friends list. (giving me only a report option for my friends is silly) all the way up to game breaking bugs like Glitched towers and blatant use of hacks and cheat programs which have yet to be addressed.

However there is a extreme sense of entitlement in the WvW population. Just reading the forums the population comes off as elitist. Remarks such as PvE kittens and Sarcastic remarks about the Living World Content don’t do any favors to win over the rest of the Populations from sPvP or PvE.

If I was a new player reading the garbage that I see here I would be put off WvW in a second. Almost all of it is hate post and sarcasm, in addition to flat out attacks at the development team. I understand that the this is common amongst forums around various MMOs. Maybe it doesn’t help that GW allows for people to buy the game once and we are stuck with them forever, almost as bad as any free to play game which is out on the market.

However, I would like to point out that if you want any one to take seriously “we,” meaning all of us have in WvW. We all need to start start acting a little more like adults and a little less like spoiled children who didn’t get the shiny new toy we wanted this year for Christmas. Lay down on the floor and kick and scream, cry and yell. But when your done throwing your little tantrum the wold will still be the exact way it was before and nothing will have changed for the better.

Lets try to be mature, and lets try to have fun. We don’t need to be any bigger kittens then we already are.

Cheers.

Talyn, re-read what you wrote. You are insulting the audience you are addressing in a thread about respect…

I have a few things for you…are you familiar with generational differences? Generation gaps in culture? Your/our generation [we might be the same generation] like to use the “sense of entitlement,” argument to bash the young with. How is that working for you? LOL. It isn’t working. Its still there. It won’t go away. It will continue in MMO’s.

“The main problem that we face in WvW or any other portion of the game/life in general is the sense of entitlement.”
I strongly disagree with this. Look around on the forums Talyn. We have/had multiple generations of gamers in Guild Wars 2. The 1st generation gamers are phasing out…not around as much and naturally being replaced by those “entitled” younger gamers. How exactly are you going to change the culture for them?

WvW has larger issues than a “sense of entitlement.” It truly does.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

Who is Mr. Carver if I may ask?

Devon Carver, Arenanet staff, who has posted numerous responses in the WvW forums.

I agree with Skylight that many of the responses to him have been childish and disrespectful.

kittening, moaning, complaining and whining… the normal nonsense of any discussion. That’s one thing. But personal insults are quite another. A lot of the comments I’ve read would result in bans if I was moderating these forums. They’re also counter productive. There’s a lot of dev teams that never post on their own forums because of nonsense like this.

Frustration is no excuse.

It’s a matter of respect. If a customer feels like it’s being continuously treated unseriously, after 11 months he might start to feel unrespected and might consequentially lose temper.

Now I don’t like to see personal attacks or picking on singles that probably don’t deserve it, but I can definitely see why so many players are quite angry and show that here

Besides, I really don’t like “THAT GUY” that have to open a thread just to point out how much better he is compared to other childish people on the forum

Shoe.5821:

Devon Carver, Arenanet staff, who has posted numerous responses in the WvW forums.

I agree with Skylight that many of the responses to him have been childish and disrespectful.

kittening, moaning, complaining and whining… the normal nonsense of any discussion. That’s one thing. But personal insults are quite another. A lot of the comments I’ve read would result in bans if I was moderating these forums. They’re also counter productive. There’s a lot of dev teams that never post on their own forums because of nonsense like this.

Frustration is no excuse.

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.

Respect is earned through action.

problematic.9623:

Shoe.5821:

Devon Carver, Arenanet staff, who has posted numerous responses in the WvW forums.

I agree with Skylight that many of the responses to him have been childish and disrespectful.

kittening, moaning, complaining and whining… the normal nonsense of any discussion. That’s one thing. But personal insults are quite another. A lot of the comments I’ve read would result in bans if I was moderating these forums. They’re also counter productive. There’s a lot of dev teams that never post on their own forums because of nonsense like this.

Frustration is no excuse.

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.

And what are you protesting? The hundreds and hundreds of hours you’ve gotten out of a game you’ve paid 60 bucks for? When most single player games can’t even come close to that? Or the fact that you’re not paying monthly and can take a break/walk away at any minute? Or maybe another MMO where you have to wait an entire year before any content is released at all in the form of an expansion AND you’re paying monthly for it? The entitled garbage on these forums is becoming an epidemic.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

Most active players that spends 95% of thier time for WvW, are getting frustrated after all those months. After fixing culling on WvW, there no any “big” changes to WvW. After all those months they are giving us only some masterys, that are getting ridiculous after every month. Carver is lead designer of WvW if im right, so he is “boss” there. Everything that is done for WvW is going thru his hands. First guy who was on the lead got fired or puted to another things.

“Hardcore” or “semi-hardcore” players, that playing everyday for like 4-5h in WvW for victory, dosent really care about you SkylightMoon, since you playing prolly only 1-2h every 2 days, and you dont care bascilly whats going on in WvW.

Stark.1350:

problematic.9623:

Shoe.5821:

Devon Carver, Arenanet staff, who has posted numerous responses in the WvW forums.

I agree with Skylight that many of the responses to him have been childish and disrespectful.

kittening, moaning, complaining and whining… the normal nonsense of any discussion. That’s one thing. But personal insults are quite another. A lot of the comments I’ve read would result in bans if I was moderating these forums. They’re also counter productive. There’s a lot of dev teams that never post on their own forums because of nonsense like this.

Frustration is no excuse.

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.

And what are you protesting? The hundreds and hundreds of hours you’ve gotten out of a game you’ve paid 60 bucks for? When most single player games can’t even come close to that? Or the fact that you’re not paying monthly and can take a break/walk away at any minute? Or maybe another MMO where you have to wait an entire year before any content is released at all in the form of an expansion AND you’re paying monthly for it? The entitled garbage on these forums is becoming an epidemic.

You again? You want more phun time? “And what are you protesting?” Do I need to help you with that? You are a terrible communicator by the way. Everyone on the forums are “entitled!” Its an epidemic!

SkylightMoon.1980:

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

Now I know I’ve seen this kind of behavior before…

Talyn.3295:

The main problem that we face in WvW or any other portion of the game/life in general is the sense of entitlement.

I play this, I own this. I want this. This is mine, not yours. It’s My Way.

It could also be a lack of patience.

I try to enjoy every aspect of Guild Wars. I don’t have alot of time to be spending playing a MMO. As an Active Service Member in the U.S. Military my time is limited, and what free time I do get is usually reserved for other things.

I enjoy Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1, because they didn’t require that I have to play every day. Or Every hour or even every week to be good at them. There was no power-creep. There was a good story, and fun to be had with my Guild Mates.

However, I will be the first to say WvW is not without problems. I could make a long list of things I feel need to be fixed. This list would start with small issues like party bugs and not being able to right click to mail/whisper/invite from my guild/friends list. (giving me only a report option for my friends is silly) all the way up to game breaking bugs like Glitched towers and blatant use of hacks and cheat programs which have yet to be addressed.

However there is a extreme sense of entitlement in the WvW population. Just reading the forums the population comes off as elitist. Remarks such as PvE kittens and Sarcastic remarks about the Living World Content don’t do any favors to win over the rest of the Populations from sPvP or PvE.

If I was a new player reading the garbage that I see here I would be put off WvW in a second. Almost all of it is hate post and sarcasm, in addition to flat out attacks at the development team. I understand that the this is common amongst forums around various MMOs. Maybe it doesn’t help that GW allows for people to buy the game once and we are stuck with them forever, almost as bad as any free to play game which is out on the market.

However, I would like to point out that if you want any one to take seriously “we,” meaning all of us have in WvW. We all need to start start acting a little more like adults and a little less like spoiled children who didn’t get the shiny new toy we wanted this year for Christmas. Lay down on the floor and kick and scream, cry and yell. But when your done throwing your little tantrum the wold will still be the exact way it was before and nothing will have changed for the better.

Lets try to be mature, and lets try to have fun. We don’t need to be any bigger kittens then we already are.

Cheers.

Oh give me a break. Chalking up dissent to “a sense of entitlement” is one of the most hackneyed and ignorant attitudes there is. What you fail to realize is that ANet (or any other business) NEEDS us to use and enjoy their product, and when they don’t perform to the satisfaction of their customer base it represents a failure on their part, not ours. That’s the way things work in an open society. I have over 35 years experience in a global industry and I will tell you with great certainty that demanding customers are the lifeblood of any successful company. Those companies reliant on customers who passively accept whatever they deliver, or who ignore what their customers are telling them, are doomed to be eaten alive by competitors who embrace criticism and constructively respond to it.

Whether ANet realizes it or not, they need a lot more of us and a lot fewer of you.

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.
Respect is earned through action.

lol

Yes, Devon Carver as an ‘authority figure’. You brave martyr.

Devon’s entitled to some basic respect as a human being trying to do his job.. ‘I feel I’m not being catered to in my practically-free hobby’ is not and never will be a reason for personal attacks.

They could always do the “great wall of silence” like most other mmos do, with changes made in game without any communication.

As frustrated as folks may be, there’s really no reason to be abrasive in getting your point accross. None of you know the limitations the team is working with — be it technical, resource-based or just plain man hours.

A more constructive approach would be to make suggestions on where to look for code/upgrade ideas. I know there are a ton of smart people playing this game, be proactive rather than negative. I’m not saying do their job for them, but who knows? Come up with a magical solution they hadn’t considered and maybe you’ll get a job out of it.

Ranting at people is toxic. And in the end, it only really poisons you.

Shoe.5821:

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.
Respect is earned through action.

lol

Yes, Devon Carver as an ‘authority figure’. You brave martyr.

Devon’s entitled to some basic respect as a human being trying to do his job.. ‘I feel I’m not being catered to in my practically-free hobby’ is not and never will be a reason for personal attacks.

I am not being persecuted. I did not claim that I was. I do appreciate the brave compliment though. The issue is failure to deliver service. Service is no longer adequate.

Wrong. Devon isn’t entitled. You are entitling him with respect he/she hasn’t earned. He is “trying” to do his job? That isn’t good enough. What else ya’ got? If you don’t like people being angry with Devon stop using the forums? It will not stop until service improves.

You don’t like it when people challenge neglectful developers “people doing their jobs” do you? This might be the wrong hobby for you Shoe.5821.

problematic.9623:

Shoe.5821:

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.
Respect is earned through action.

lol

Yes, Devon Carver as an ‘authority figure’. You brave martyr.

Devon’s entitled to some basic respect as a human being trying to do his job.. ‘I feel I’m not being catered to in my practically-free hobby’ is not and never will be a reason for personal attacks.

I am not being persecuted. I did not claim that I was. I do appreciate the brave compliment though. The issue is failure to deliver service. Service is no longer adequate.

Wrong. Devon isn’t entitled. You are entitling him with respect he/she hasn’t earned. He is “trying” to do his job? That isn’t good enough. What else ya’ got? If you don’t like people being angry with Devon stop using the forums? It will not stop until service improves.

You don’t like it when people challenge neglectful developers “people doing their jobs” do you? This might be the wrong hobby for you Shoe.5821.

Sure, respect is earned, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to make it as hard as possible for someone to help me. I’m not going to be completely unreasonable to every little thing because someone hasn’t “proven” themselves. I don’t understand how you think an attitude like that would ever be constructive. This isn’t an argument of opinion, this is an argument of morals. You may feel good being as difficult as possible, others don’t. With that said, I can understand where you’re coming from. I stopped playing GW2, because I got tired of WvW and that there was no new content for it, a lot of my guild did. Does this mean I’m going to go to the forums and challenge the devs at every turn? No. Even if I had the time to do stuff like that, no. I’ve had a lot of good times in this game, maybe even some bad ones, but I spent tons of time playing WvW which was an afterthought to the game in the first place. Of course I wish they did more with it, but the flaming, the complaints, the whining, it’s not helpful, and it doesn’t build a good community. And an MMO is only as good as its community in the long run, in my opinion, anyways.

BLKNovember.5620:

problematic.9623:

Shoe.5821:

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.
Respect is earned through action.

lol

Yes, Devon Carver as an ‘authority figure’. You brave martyr.

Devon’s entitled to some basic respect as a human being trying to do his job.. ‘I feel I’m not being catered to in my practically-free hobby’ is not and never will be a reason for personal attacks.

I am not being persecuted. I did not claim that I was. I do appreciate the brave compliment though. The issue is failure to deliver service. Service is no longer adequate.

Wrong. Devon isn’t entitled. You are entitling him with respect he/she hasn’t earned. He is “trying” to do his job? That isn’t good enough. What else ya’ got? If you don’t like people being angry with Devon stop using the forums? It will not stop until service improves.

You don’t like it when people challenge neglectful developers “people doing their jobs” do you? This might be the wrong hobby for you Shoe.5821.

Sure, respect is earned, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to make it as hard as possible for someone to help me.

The problem is that many players feel that they haven’t done enough to help the game when it comes to WvW. Their previous polite requests have gone unheeded. So they try another tactic to try to show how in dire need of attention these seemingly ignored issues in WvW truly are to them.

I’m not saying this is right or wrong (that’s just POV), but it’s a totally normal response given the circumstances.

SkylightMoon.1980:

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

Well said.

These few squeaky wheels do not speak on behalf of the quiet majority of WvWers.

I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.

Keep the great changes coming Devon

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.

Please list them for me. I’m honestly curious.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

SkylightMoon.1980:

I was reading through a lot of the posts you guys had, and Mr. Carver has been kind enough to respond and answer questions that you pose to him. However a lot of the replies are still uncalled for, whether its sarcasm or just a low blow at his qualifications.

Well said.

These few squeaky wheels do not speak on behalf of the quiet majority of WvWers.

I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.

Keep the great changes coming Devon

“quiet majority…” A term used by Conservative US politicians to elect former President Nixon at a time of war…

I don’t know who the hell you are, but do not ever use that phrase here. There is no silent majority anymore. There is only the exploited and the exploiters now. There is only a separation of needs and resources. This game world shares similarities…

“I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.”

You want a PR war? Bring it on.

What is it with all of the jock swinging fan boys in the gaming community? The devs are not Jesus, Mohamed or Buddha. They’re dudes who took my money.

If a waitress screws up my order, I ask her to fix it.
If a waitress gets my order wrong and then brings it back the same but with grind… er spit on it, I ask to see the manager.
If I’m still waiting on her to get my order right a year later, I get kitten ed off.

Cactus.2710:

Talyn.3295:

The main problem that we face in WvW or any other portion of the game/life in general is the sense of entitlement.

I play this, I own this. I want this. This is mine, not yours. It’s My Way.

It could also be a lack of patience.

I try to enjoy every aspect of Guild Wars. I don’t have alot of time to be spending playing a MMO. As an Active Service Member in the U.S. Military my time is limited, and what free time I do get is usually reserved for other things.

I enjoy Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1, because they didn’t require that I have to play every day. Or Every hour or even every week to be good at them. There was no power-creep. There was a good story, and fun to be had with my Guild Mates.

However, I will be the first to say WvW is not without problems. I could make a long list of things I feel need to be fixed. This list would start with small issues like party bugs and not being able to right click to mail/whisper/invite from my guild/friends list. (giving me only a report option for my friends is silly) all the way up to game breaking bugs like Glitched towers and blatant use of hacks and cheat programs which have yet to be addressed.

However there is a extreme sense of entitlement in the WvW population. Just reading the forums the population comes off as elitist. Remarks such as PvE kittens and Sarcastic remarks about the Living World Content don’t do any favors to win over the rest of the Populations from sPvP or PvE.

If I was a new player reading the garbage that I see here I would be put off WvW in a second. Almost all of it is hate post and sarcasm, in addition to flat out attacks at the development team. I understand that the this is common amongst forums around various MMOs. Maybe it doesn’t help that GW allows for people to buy the game once and we are stuck with them forever, almost as bad as any free to play game which is out on the market.

However, I would like to point out that if you want any one to take seriously “we,” meaning all of us have in WvW. We all need to start start acting a little more like adults and a little less like spoiled children who didn’t get the shiny new toy we wanted this year for Christmas. Lay down on the floor and kick and scream, cry and yell. But when your done throwing your little tantrum the wold will still be the exact way it was before and nothing will have changed for the better.

Lets try to be mature, and lets try to have fun. We don’t need to be any bigger kittens then we already are.

Cheers.

Oh give me a break. Chalking up dissent to “a sense of entitlement” is one of the most hackneyed and ignorant attitudes there is. What you fail to realize is that ANet (or any other business) NEEDS us to use and enjoy their product, and when they don’t perform to the satisfaction of their customer base it represents a failure on their part, not ours. That’s the way things work in an open society. I have over 35 years experience in a global industry and I will tell you with great certainty that demanding customers are the lifeblood of any successful company. Those companies reliant on customers who passively accept whatever they deliver, or who ignore what their customers are telling them, are doomed to be eaten alive by competitors who embrace criticism and constructively respond to it.

Whether ANet realizes it or not, they need a lot more of us and a lot fewer of you.

Heavily and visibly favouring one customer base over another e.g. failing to treat wvw as seriously as living story, ignoring customer frustration levels, having a tiny wvw output, transparent ’ dog ate my homework’ released vertical power grinds like wvw mastery of the month, no commitment to any reassuringly visible/concrete roadmap for change and improvement.

These are all the types of problems in any industry that invite a competitor to do a bit better and take a large segment of customers away.

Whether the dissatisfied customer base expresses itself politely or impolitely is irrelevant to a company, what’s relevent to a company is do they want to improve their service to that customer base , do they want to keep that customer base.

When you buy this game, you buy it ‘as is’.

If the seller decides to add more features to it after the sale, that’s up to them. There’s no agreement to do so and there’s no agreement to ‘fix’ things you don’t like.

Stuff gets added to the game in order to :-
a) Make some further profit from Gemstore additions.
b) Try to keep people interested so that they might keep playing. (With an eye to (a))
c) Give a reason for continuous news releases and similar publicity for advertising purposes.

‘Bug fixes’ are simply a manifestation of (b)

That’s the legal position in a nutshell, like it or not. Whine all you like, it’s not going to get you anywhere unless Anet can see a profit in it, so you might as well be polite.

Contiguous.1345:

When you buy this game, you buy it ‘as is’.

If the seller decides to add more features to it after the sale, that’s up to them. There’s no agreement to do so and there’s no agreement to ‘fix’ things you don’t like.

Stuff gets added to the game in order to :-
a) Make some further profit from Gemstore additions.
b) Try to keep people interested so that they might keep playing. (With an eye to (a))
c) Give a reason for continuous news releases and similar publicity for advertising purposes.

‘Bug fixes’ are simply a manifestation of (b)

That’s the legal position in a nutshell, like it or not. Whine all you like, it’s not going to get you anywhere unless Anet can see a profit in it, so you might as well be polite.

Thank you for the advice. Did you see all the Dev responses this week? I made a thread for that.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/List-of-Developer-responses/first#post2607276

Tell me again how there is no profit in improving WvW? If you want to be polite and ask the Developers to kindly communicate a mastery of this game format I would appreciate it? That would be helpful.

Not my problem.
I can’t remember what I paid for this game – about the price of a good dinner I guess.

I’ve had hours of fun out of it, completed the stuff I’m interested in and left the rest. I still enjoy playing WvW so I’ll probably keep playing that for a while. If Anet make changes that interest me, I’ll maybe play a little longer, If they offer something in the Gem store that looks interesting, I might buy it.
(So far, the only thing I bought was a transfer to a better WvW server).
If a better game comes along – I’ll probably buy that and ditch GW2. That’s how committed I am.

That’s all there is to it as far as I’m concerned.
Seems to me it was a pretty good deal. Pass me the toothpicks will you?

Contiguous.1345:

Not my problem.
I can’t remember what I paid for this game – about the price of a good dinner I guess.

I’ve had hours of fun out of it, completed the stuff I’m interested in and left the rest. I still enjoy playing WvW so I’ll probably keep playing that for a while. If Anet make changes that interest me, I’ll maybe play a little longer, If they offer something in the Gem store that looks interesting, I might buy it.
(So far, the only thing I bought was a transfer to a better WvW server).
If a better game comes along – I’ll probably buy that and ditch GW2. That’s how committed I am.

That’s all there is to it as far as I’m concerned.
Seems to me it was a pretty good deal. Pass me the toothpicks will you?

I agree….Yes I am one of the people that is harsh on some of the developers when it comes to transparency…I think they do a kitten poor job of it compared to other games and I do believe it is a part of their job they could do much better.

You are right, you always have the option to play another game and I too have enjoyed the money I spent on the game. In all honesty I was hoping for more than a year of enjoyment, but nonetheless fun.

Right now…at least IMO, there isn’t another game out there that has something like WvW…..because Anet has ignored it for so long….it has gotten stale…but there really isn’t anything to move to yet for another game…. so I play less now…and in the mean time while I am waiting for that next competitor to beat out GW2 (Which will happen unless they start speeding up their time frames for delivery on some of these WvW changes), I will gripe about the silly crap anet does until they fix it or another game comes out (That’s also my right as a consumer ).

I realize the dev’s have a job… I do appreciate that they at least are giving us SOME changes while they try and overhaul WvW….the fact of the matter is, since launch the community has pointed some of these things out and were ignored for months on end…then when the light bulb clicked on and they actually started doing something with WvW…people were already frustrated…now they want us to thank the developers and anet for doing too little too late…maybe you can live in a world where everyone is perfect no one makes mistakes and everything is peachy, but the bottom line is…anet f’d up…and i’m not gonna congratulate them for it…

problematic.9623:

Stark.1350:

problematic.9623:

Shoe.5821:

Devon Carver, Arenanet staff, who has posted numerous responses in the WvW forums.

I agree with Skylight that many of the responses to him have been childish and disrespectful.

kittening, moaning, complaining and whining… the normal nonsense of any discussion. That’s one thing. But personal insults are quite another. A lot of the comments I’ve read would result in bans if I was moderating these forums. They’re also counter productive. There’s a lot of dev teams that never post on their own forums because of nonsense like this.

Frustration is no excuse.

I disagree with you. Frustration is a legit excuse. I don’t care what you would do. Bow down and show respect for your authority figure. I will stand here and continue protesting.

And what are you protesting? The hundreds and hundreds of hours you’ve gotten out of a game you’ve paid 60 bucks for? When most single player games can’t even come close to that? Or the fact that you’re not paying monthly and can take a break/walk away at any minute? Or maybe another MMO where you have to wait an entire year before any content is released at all in the form of an expansion AND you’re paying monthly for it? The entitled garbage on these forums is becoming an epidemic.

You again? You want more phun time? “And what are you protesting?” Do I need to help you with that? You are a terrible communicator by the way. Everyone on the forums are “entitled!” Its an epidemic!

LoL

He isn’t doing his job very well. Is it because he doesn’t have the skills or because he has to much on his plate? No idea, it is up to him to figure it out and fix. Just letting it slide is really not an option, or it will not be fixed.

Contiguous.1345:

Not my problem.
I can’t remember what I paid for this game – about the price of a good dinner I guess.

I’ve had hours of fun out of it, completed the stuff I’m interested in and left the rest. I still enjoy playing WvW so I’ll probably keep playing that for a while. If Anet make changes that interest me, I’ll maybe play a little longer, If they offer something in the Gem store that looks interesting, I might buy it.
(So far, the only thing I bought was a transfer to a better WvW server).
If a better game comes along – I’ll probably buy that and ditch GW2. That’s how committed I am.

That’s all there is to it as far as I’m concerned.
Seems to me it was a pretty good deal. Pass me the toothpicks will you?

“Not my problem.” It is very clear that you don’t care. Yet, you took the time to get involved in this thread so you could specifically tell me that the GW2 game service isn’t your problem? You are wasting my time.

I am not surprised by your apathy. However, WvW does have a community that is concerned. People do want more. This isn’t about you. Do you understand that? Long term stable communities do not require apathetic players like yourself.

I dont understand why you all think GW2 is the end all be all mmo. It is carebearville….they cater to people who want to role play / not have to think to win.

Sorry, not what I am gonna spend RL time or money on.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I am actually quite happy with the many enhancements that have been made over the past 5 months.

Are you by chance a carebear zerglet that has no interest in a quality and competitive gaming environment? That would be my guess based on your view of the games ‘enhancements’.

I will gripe about the silly crap anet does until they fix it or another game comes out

noone cares if you gripe

this thread is about personal attacks

Shoe.5821:

I will gripe about the silly crap anet does until they fix it or another game comes out

noone cares if you gripe

this thread is about personal attacks

If you think there’s a genuine difference, it’s time to load up on the anti-depressants cause the rest of life is gonna be really sad.

Devon is in a tough place, and if he couldn’t handle the pressure then he wouldn’t be there. Whining about whining isn’t going to do anything for Devon and only serves to make you look foolish. Anytime anyone is in any position of importance to someone at their mercy there will always be angry criticism, personal insults, and generally negative statements. I could say politicians are corrupt, evil, soulless people who care nothing for the common good, and for the large part people will agree. If I say democrats specifically, or President Obama instead of politicians in general I’ll get a much more varied set of responses, but there still will be people who agree (disclaimer: just an example not a personal belief).

Not that Devon is comparable at all to the President of the United States, but that he’s in a position where there are actions he must take that may be unpopular among those it effects and thus be regarded with direct negativity. Consider it an occupational hazard that comes with the territory of WvW that is compounded by a vastly smaller budget and less staffing than PvE which is overtly the company’s development focus.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled nonsense thread that should just get locked and deleted.

there is a genuine difference that’s why they are different words/phrases.

for example: post one of this thread, attacking his qualifications without basis or knowledge.

Shoe.5821:

there is a genuine difference that’s why they are different words/phrases.

for example: post one of this thread, attacking his qualifications without basis or knowledge.

I don’t have a hatred and disgust for this way of thinking.

I regard it with odium.

clearly not the same thing because they’re different words/phrases.

Your logic is undeniable.

if you cant tell the difference between personal attacks and gripes/complaints its pretty much problem 1 right there

if you are so fed up with problems in wvw and don’t feel you are being listened to the appropriate and mature thing to do is to leave. not throw tantrums or rage at some guy.

Shoe.5821:

if you cant tell the difference between personal attacks and gripes/complaints its pretty much problem 1 right there

if you are so fed up with problems in wvw and don’t feel you are being listened to the appropriate and mature thing to do is to leave. not throw tantrums or rage at some guy.

Children run away from their problems and passively accept whatever BS is told to them. Men and Women who reject the BS and stand up to someone or something are the only people who make changes in this kindergarten society.

Well behaved humans have seldom made a difference. Now, you may want to step aside, because we aim to misbehave.

I like to think I’ve made a big difference in life, with not only my words, but my actions. And I’ve always been polite.

Let me put it another way:

Let’s say I work for X company. I will make it a priority to keep those customers of X company happy. However, with finite resources and time, if I’m being practical I will look at A: what’s making my company more money; and if both are equal then B: who is easier to deal with. Nine times out of 10 I will be more inclined to help out the nicer people making reasonable requests.

And given that WvW makes very little gem store income for Anet, if you throw in people being antagonistic and confrontational … well it’s pretty easy to see where I’d put my time in.

Jayne.9251:

I like to think I’ve made a big difference in life, with not only my words, but my actions. And I’ve always been polite.

Let me put it another way:

Let’s say I work for X company. I will make it a priority to keep those customers of X company happy. However, with finite resources and time, if I’m being practical I will look at A: what’s making my company more money; and if both are equal then B: who is easier to deal with. Nine times out of 10 I will be more inclined to help out the nicer people making reasonable requests.

And given that WvW makes very little gem store income for Anet, if you throw in people being antagonistic and confrontational … well it’s pretty easy to see where I’d put my time in.

This is exactly the behavior that has enabled company after company to push abusive business models on consumers without concern to its repercussions.

I buy a steak dinner, I expect it like I ordered it, and how they said they were going to prepare it for me. When I get it and its cold, overcooked, and terribly seasoned I’m polite the first time. They bring back that same steak, but this time they heated it back up, I’m not going to be polite. I’m going to complain. This isn’t baseball. You don’t get three strikes.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

ANet got their polite response out of me, and still brought me back the steak I told them they needed to fix. The audacity that they had to push me to pre-purchase the Collector’s Edition in full without giving me a release date with the promise of hot juicy medium rare perfectly seasoned steak, and then the straight /ignore that followed was as disrespectful to their customers as it gets: “Ahahaha we got your money idiot! Here’s the PvP experience we lied about being ‘ready’ for you! Hahahaha! Whatta idiot!”

Don’t worry though. My impolite comments will be gone as soon as something better launches (Destiny more than likely) and ANet can carry on with their PvE business model without the judgement of those who once rode the hype train with zealous loyalty such as myself.

Jayne, did you read this post from Fuzz on JQ server?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Something-is-WRONG/first#post2627376

They [Devs] are not performing as expected. Game service is no longer acceptable (for me). The player base waited a year for them to finish what they started [they did not work on the fundamentals]. The game population has a high turnover rate (this makes it far more difficult to run a gamer community). No one at the Dev level have shown, displayed, or communicated expertise in WvW gameplay. One of the few things left for this disaffected group of players is communicating with each other on these forums.

95% of the “antagonistic and confrontational” behavior comes from our fellow male players. Do you agree? It could be worse.

I wonder about your approach Jayne because I don’t think you have acknowledged the frustration of the disaffected players? If you communicated that more clearly I would be more inclined to work with you.

You’ve gotta be kidding me. This isn’t a gender thing. >.<

Urrid.4593:

You’ve gotta be kidding me. This isn’t a gender thing. >.<

Relevant

configuration of reproductive organs has everything to do with it.

Obscure One.4357:

This is exactly the behavior that has enabled company after company to push abusive business models on consumers without concern to its repercussions.

How exactly is is abusive? You paid $70 — or basically $6 a month (game has been out a year now almost), where traditional MMOs charge $15 a month recurring sub PLUS you have to buy their expansions on top of that sub that are typically released every nine months — when Anet has given us ongoing content (maybe not the kind you want, but it’s certainly engaged other players) for free essentially? I think after a year of game play you got your money’s worth. Most of us have. It’s ok to be frustrated, but you’re being a little over-dramatic … see below.

Obscure One.4357:

I buy a steak dinner, I expect it like I ordered it, and how they said they were going to prepare it for me. When I get it and its cold, overcooked, and terribly seasoned I’m polite the first time. They bring back that same steak, but this time they heated it back up, I’m not going to be polite. I’m going to complain. This isn’t baseball. You don’t get three strikes.

Yes but in this instance you’ve already eaten half the steak and decide to send it back expecting to get a brand new steak for no money.

I get the frustration. But the drama is a little over the top. It’s a video game. Go outside and get some fresh air.

So the biggest problem with this game and company, is its player base/99.9% of its remaining customers. Truth is, Obscure and Niim, this is literally more a social lounge / ez mode starter land where people come who havent actually experienced good games and intense SKILL-BASED gameplay so to them, this is it!

So telling them their “dream lounge” is a joke isnt going to go over well.

This week in fact our 5 man left and started playing TERA. In the two days our guild has switched over, I have had more fun needing healers to heal me….and having NO absolutely NO downed state when we smoke people to worry about. There is NO AoE cap and no limit to the amount of people our coordinated team can drop.

It was such a refreshing air. Is it as smooth of gameplay….no. At least they got basics down, like when you kill someone…their dead and have to respawn….not oh you gotta kill them AGAIN. Guys, take it from a devoted 5 manner (ex 8manner) who played since launch….playing a different game with normal mmo pvp rules…feels 1000x better than expecting Anet and Devon (LOL) to change this “Social Lounge”.