Guild Wars 2

Yes we had Pips and Yes there is a new Expansion coming soon, but….. its all to late. The WvW community isn’t as big as was at the start of the “Pip” update but the problem with that update it didnt bring much new content to WvW that people could enjoy in the moment. Even if there is a big WvW content update the population will struggle due to the neglect of content the last few years. (PvP received much more development over WvW and Pve which is a no brainer)

Whenever i jump into WvW,there are tons of ppl around.Many times queve on some map and skill lags.If this is dieing i really dont know what you await from WvW.

New content was delivered,but ppl rant about it 24/7.New map?too big,too small,too spread,too tight bla bla bla.People want more siege,than less siege,better fortification,worse later on.Even einstein in game development couldnt ever please this wide audience.

Just stack 5 people with mercy runes.

Populations are falling as fast as they grew with after the last major update. I often struggle to find a dozen friendlies across all maps in T1 during off hours.

Saying population is fine would be a mistake.

However, recent release of living story stuff always pulls a moderate amount of players from WvW. If for nothing else, curiosity.

Two to three weeks from now is a better gauge.

Enemy seems to have too much players so population could die little bit more.

Junkpile.7439:

Enemy seems to have too much players so population could die little bit more.

I see what you did there.

Very little balance for small scale action which unfortunately during some time zones or outside tier 1/2, is all there is. People just log off rather than deal with the terrible balance in WvW small scale.

Struggle to kill anything on the power based scrapper. Log on my condi chrono, roll my face across the keyboard whilst watching netflix on my second monitor. Collect bags and not die for over an hr.

Chorazin.4107:

Very little balance for small scale action which unfortunately during some time zones or outside tier 1/2, is all there is. People just log off rather than deal with the terrible balance in WvW small scale.

Struggle to kill anything on the power based scrapper. Log on my condi chrono, roll my face across the keyboard whilst watching netflix on my second monitor. Collect bags and not die for over an hr.

Well i think that it’s good thing that there is effective specs for lower skilled players.

Well why should you play a competitive mode, that has been butcherd for years? Server linking makes the whole ranking obsolete.

WvW isn’t competitive game mode and doesn’t even try to be.

Chorazin.4107:

Struggle to kill anything on the power based scrapper. Log on my condi chrono, roll my face across the keyboard whilst watching netflix on my second monitor. Collect bags and not die for over an hr.

condie mesmer was always like that.used to be even more passive,thou they at least werent that deadly like nowadays.shatter condie bombs which generate even more clones which results in more condie shatters…. .Hard to say which one is worse.Long time ago,i tryed condie pu mesmer,killed i think 2 warrs and 1 guard just with clone aa and clone death trait.Thou it at least took a while,but i could chat with friends during this thriling fight.

Last XPAc ANet tried adding a new map. A lot of people didn’t like it, so much so that that map is 2/3’s gone. They tried adding an event. Ruins went from squares without mobs to squares with mobs in them. People said that WvW shouldn’t be about such stuff, that it should be about players fighting players.

With that in mind, what should WvW “content” look like?

I know a number of people who PVE that have this philosophy.

When a new story introduced they focus all time on completion of the same as they want to do so when there fuller maps so various aspects of the story are easier to do. if they wait too long those PvE maps empty and it becomes harder. Thus if they play both WvW and PVe they focus on the PvE stuff.

There likely a number of the PvE crowd who came in for those unique rewards and were not all that interested in WvW as a format in the first place.

The focus on the blob is also self defeating. If people find themselves facing a blob on each BL and their own side can not compete numberwise they will often abandon the map.

Of course the population is dying. Why would pips keep anyone interested? Any new blood would come in, see how kitten-poor their pip gains are, and leave.

Chorazin.4107:

Very little balance for small scale action which unfortunately during some time zones or outside tier 1/2, is all there is. People just log off rather than deal with the terrible balance in WvW small scale.

Struggle to kill anything on the power based scrapper. Log on my condi chrono, roll my face across the keyboard whilst watching netflix on my second monitor. Collect bags and not die for over an hr.

Player skill also factors chora. Some players are more suited to certain playstyles than others. Maybe you’re just better at the mesmer playstyle than the engie.

I’ve seen power scrappers rip through 3-4 enemies with ease, I’ve also seen power scrappers die horribly without being able to do much in a 1v1 situation.

For me personally I can be on my alt account on a vanilla necro with Carrion masterwork armor and a random assortment of exotic and masterwork trinkets like knights, cavaliers etc and I can beat people sometimes in 1v2 situations. But put me on an engie with full ascended and I get rolled by bronze rankers or lower.

Nate.3927:

Chorazin.4107:

Very little balance for small scale action which unfortunately during some time zones or outside tier 1/2, is all there is. People just log off rather than deal with the terrible balance in WvW small scale.

Struggle to kill anything on the power based scrapper. Log on my condi chrono, roll my face across the keyboard whilst watching netflix on my second monitor. Collect bags and not die for over an hr.

Player skill also factors chora. Some players are more suited to certain playstyles than others. Maybe you’re just better at the mesmer playstyle than the engie.

I’ve seen power scrappers rip through 3-4 enemies with ease, I’ve also seen power scrappers die horribly without being able to do much in a 1v1 situation.

For me personally I can be on my alt account on a vanilla necro with Carrion masterwork armor and a random assortment of exotic and masterwork trinkets like knights, cavaliers etc and I can beat people sometimes in 1v2 situations. But put me on an engie with full ascended and I get rolled by bronze rankers or lower.

Its not a skill issue here. I’ve played with Chorazin before. We used to be in the same guild [lion] way back before HoT was out. Dude knows what he’s doing, so trust me its not a skill issue. I think the point he was trying to make is how broken alot of builds are now. You can play to perfection on some things and be nowhere as effective on that build as a brand new player on another build is. Condi mes is a perfect example of this. No matter how terrible you are, it carries HARD. its nearly impossible to die on it even when outnumbered no matter how bad you are because of how stupidly overpowered it is. Pretty sure he was just making a risk vs reward comparison.

Willkilliam.5012:

Yes we had Pips and Yes there is a new Expansion coming soon, but….. its all to late. The WvW community isn’t as big as was at the start of the “Pip” update but the problem with that update it didnt bring much new content to WvW that people could enjoy in the moment. Even if there is a big WvW content update the population will struggle due to the neglect of content the last few years. (PvP received much more development over WvW and Pve which is a no brainer)

Gee you are right!

We should all just stop playing right this minute huh?

/sarcasm

Trakarg.2095:

Of course the population is dying. Why would pips keep anyone interested? Any new blood would come in, see how kitten-poor their pip gains are, and leave.

I’ve been saying this for weeks, and wvw players don’t want to acknowledge that the carrot on the stick was placed too far out of reach. That or they don’t care because they already have their rewards, and want to keep others from obtaining them.

The devs don’t acknowledge it either, despite numerous threads. When a grind is this time consuming, it actually works as a deterrent to new players. When a new player grasps how long the grind is they feel excluded and instantly think, this game mode isn’t for me, it’s for others who have played it since day one for years, I won’t even bother, because there are no rewards or incentives in sight.

For me at least, the changes I want to see in WvW are improvements to Balance and Performance. I am not personally interested in more particle effects, more powercreep, more skill lag, more gimmicks etc.

It all comes down to profession design.
And if the new specs are anything to make assumptions on the future of WvW with, then the population is going to drop even harder.

Sad to say nobody cares about fighting gimmicks when the core gameplay is rotting fast.

Not sure what server your on? But my experience is the total opposite. There are always plenty of people around in WvW. So I guess it depends where you are and what time you play.

Straegen.2938:

Populations are falling as fast as they grew with after the last major update. I often struggle to find a dozen friendlies across all maps in T1 during off hours.

Overall, participation fluctuates and there are clearly less queues here (outside of reset) than when pip mania first started. However, currently in T3 and find people at all times of the day 9am, 2pm, 8pm, 1am, 4am all EST. Sometimes only a few dozen here and there, sometimes map queued. Our anecdotal measurements clearly conflict each other. So any conclusion from said measurements cannot be trusted. Only Anet knows what the participation level is.

I mean, its pretty obvious if youre in t1 and just walk around during off hours. its empty. use your eyes.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I mean, its pretty obvious if youre in t1 and just walk around during off hours. its empty. use your eyes.

Have yet to see that. I have been playing in the late evening/early morning hours as I am unable to sleep. No lack of other players around. I am in GoM linked with NSP. So not sure what Tier your in.

Nikkinella.8254:

Pretty sure he was just making a risk vs reward comparison.

Yes, in the small scale, which is what this thread is about. You scale the battles up in numbers and these problems evaporate. Not that a condi mes or thief are likely to get a group in a zerg.

But there is a lot of smaller group action outside T1-2/ NA prime time. I understand the game mode is about large scale battles. But surely they could at least take a look at how classes are performing in a microcosm. Considering as the population shrinks more emphasis is on smaller scale conflicts.

no real updates in wvw and the lag on most of the maps is killing the game.. period

Chorazin.4107:

Nikkinella.8254:

Pretty sure he was just making a risk vs reward comparison.

Yes, in the small scale, which is what this thread is about. You scale the battles up in numbers and these problems evaporate. Not that a condi mes or thief are likely to get a group in a zerg.

But there is a lot of smaller group action outside T1-2/ NA prime time. I understand the game mode is about large scale battles. But surely they could at least take a look at how classes are performing in a microcosm. Considering as the population shrinks more emphasis is on smaller scale conflicts.

Personally, I just hope they’ll ignore all the whining zerglings and pvers, and low skill players who are carried by condi and finally just nerf the hell out of condi for the good of the game. Are they really that blind that they cant see the massive dip the population took after the condi changes? Its no coincidence.

The only people that enjoy the current condi meta are low skill players who were unable to compete in the previous meta that had a concept of risk/reward for builds. Now they can play as poorly as they want and be carried by tons of passives and massive damage while being tanky. I cant say I really blame them for it. Its like being the kid that never gets picked to play on the team, then suddenly being drafted by the NBA, even though you don’t deserve to be there. You wouldn’t want that taken away from you. But its not fun for the rest of the people that actually earned the right to be there on the top and have to play with you while you play poorly and still succeed.

Nikkinella.8254:

Chorazin.4107:

Nikkinella.8254:

Pretty sure he was just making a risk vs reward comparison.

Yes, in the small scale, which is what this thread is about. You scale the battles up in numbers and these problems evaporate. Not that a condi mes or thief are likely to get a group in a zerg.

But there is a lot of smaller group action outside T1-2/ NA prime time. I understand the game mode is about large scale battles. But surely they could at least take a look at how classes are performing in a microcosm. Considering as the population shrinks more emphasis is on smaller scale conflicts.

Personally, I just hope they’ll ignore all the whining zerglings and pvers, and low skill players who are carried by condi and finally just nerf the hell out of condi for the good of the game. Are they really that blind that they cant see the massive dip the population took after the condi changes? Its no coincidence.

The only people that enjoy the current condi meta are low skill players who were unable to compete in the previous meta that had a concept of risk/reward for builds. Now they can play as poorly as they want and be carried by tons of passives and massive damage while being tanky. I cant say I really blame them for it. Its like being the kid that never gets picked to play on the team, then suddenly being drafted by the NBA, even though you don’t deserve to be there. You wouldn’t want that taken away from you. But its not fun for the rest of the people that actually earned the right to be there on the top and have to play with you while you play poorly and still succeed.

Bad idea. You can not maintain healthy populations and then design a system wherein only the high skilled players can survive in WvW. This is not the NBA. This is not professional sports. It a game that should appeal to all types of player, those of high skill and lower with all feeling they have a chance to last more then a few seconds against the more highly skilled.

There are only a few hundred NBA players out of the tens and thousands that play basketball. This hardly a recipe for maintaining higher populations in WvW.

If you are truly skilled you should not have problems killing peoples using Condition builds. I do not consider myself highly skilled and can manage it. YOU might not find facing a Condition build fun. I do and in fact like to test myself against the “best of them” using minimal cleanses when the mood suits me. So what If I die. I just come back and try again. I personally would rather play against a Condition build than I would like to play against an empty map.

I play on a mid ranked server and we get two map queues Monday and Tuesday nights. We even had 3 map queues last Tuesday randomly.

And look how well that’s worked out so far. enjoy the continuing declining population as players get better and realize how shallow the current gameplay is and leave for something else. You also can’t cater to the lowest common denominator like they are now. Condi carries way too hard as it is now. There has to be risk vs reward in every build, and current condi builds are all reward and no risk compared to power builds. I’d like to fight something besides just condi mes, condi thief, condi warriors, and condi druids. But thats the only thing you find when roaming anymore because its so easy to play and so rewarding for the little effort required to play them. Something needs to be done about the current condi meta. Its far too brainless and unfun for the majority of people to play against. Just because you’re a masochist, doesn’t mean everyone enjoys that crap.

Nikkinella.8254:

And look how well that’s worked out so far. enjoy the continuing declining population as players get better and realize how shallow the current gameplay is and leave for something else. You also can’t cater to the lowest common denominator like they are now. Condi carries way too hard as it is now. There has to be risk vs reward in every build, and current condi builds are all reward and no risk compared to power builds. I’d like to fight something besides just condi mes, condi thief, condi warriors, and condi druids. But thats the only thing you find when roaming anymore because its so easy to play and so rewarding for the little effort required to play them. Something needs to be done about the current condi meta. Its far too brainless and unfun for the majority of people to play against. Just because you’re a masochist, doesn’t mean everyone enjoys that crap.

Oh please. If you are good as you say you are you should be able to deal with all of those low skilled players.

And this is a game. it is not real life. No one is getting HURT. When I go out and Golf with my Cousin who is semi pro and lose by about 20 strokes, I do not consider it an act of masochism even if I am allowed a handicap. Its a GAME. (maybe you just do not know what masochism means)

You are the one complaining that you are not having fun. I still manage it so I think it works out pretty well.

I can kill them, that’s not the point. it isn’t fun to fight against someone that has to put in minimal effort to fight me. And that’s precisely what condi allows players to do in it’s current state. It allows players to punch above their weight limit and compete against people the would normally stand zero chance against and would most likely die in a millisecond when fighting against them.

When i kill some annoying condi scrub that just facetanks and never dodges, just because their cheese build allows them to play poorly and not be punished for mistakes, while i have to play perfectly to kill them, its not the least bit fun. I don’t feel accomplished by killing them, i feel frustration that poor game mechanics can carry someone that hard who I know for a fact if they weren’t playing some tanky condi build, would have died in a split second against me making the same mistakes. Its a risk vs reward issue NOT a skill issue. Are you really that ignorant that you can’t comprehend that? Or are you just trying to troll me at this point?

Nikkinella.8254:

I can kill them, that’s not the point. it isn’t fun to fight against someone that has to put in minimal effort to fight me. And that’s precisely what condi allows players to do in it’s current state. It allows players to punch above their weight limit and compete against people the would normally stand zero chance against and would most likely die in a millisecond when fighting against them.

When i kill some annoying condi scrub that just facetanks and never dodges, just because their cheese build allows them to play poorly and not be punished for mistakes, while i have to play perfectly to kill them, its not the least bit fun. I don’t feel accomplished by killing them, i feel frustration that poor game mechanics can carry someone that hard who I know for a fact if they weren’t playing some tanky condi build, would have died in a split second against me making the same mistakes. Its a risk vs reward issue NOT a skill issue. Are you really that ignorant that you can’t comprehend that? Or are you just trying to troll me at this point?

It is not fun for you. It is fun for me. Tonight I decided to roam with my pure power thief using JUST trickster as a cleanse. Went for hours before finally dying and I died to power. Came close a few times to some of those necro Condition builds but managed to get out of harms way and heal with just a sliver of health remaining.

Those Condition builds were dropping to 3.5K kitten k shadowshots mixxed in with heartseekers and backstabs. I really could not care less that those I faced might have had an easier to play build.

There a reason people tire of trash mobs in PVE and want to fight the Bosses that are boosted with exponential health points and skills not available to any player. They want a bit of a challenge at times. Apparently there are those that do not care for such. To each their own.

This is a GAME. it is not a livelihood. If a person finds a build they can better survive on or that is better suited to their style of play than why should it bother me that they might be harder to kill?

And no, there no build that can kill another in a millisecond.

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

I can kill them, that’s not the point. it isn’t fun to fight against someone that has to put in minimal effort to fight me. And that’s precisely what condi allows players to do in it’s current state. It allows players to punch above their weight limit and compete against people the would normally stand zero chance against and would most likely die in a millisecond when fighting against them.

When i kill some annoying condi scrub that just facetanks and never dodges, just because their cheese build allows them to play poorly and not be punished for mistakes, while i have to play perfectly to kill them, its not the least bit fun. I don’t feel accomplished by killing them, i feel frustration that poor game mechanics can carry someone that hard who I know for a fact if they weren’t playing some tanky condi build, would have died in a split second against me making the same mistakes. Its a risk vs reward issue NOT a skill issue. Are you really that ignorant that you can’t comprehend that? Or are you just trying to troll me at this point?

It is not fun for you. It is fun for me. Tonight I decided to roam with my pure power thief using JUST trickster as a cleanse. Went for hours before finally dying and I died to power. Came close a few times to some of those necro Condition builds but managed to get out of harms way and heal with just a sliver of health remaining.

Those Condition builds were dropping to 3.5K kitten k shadowshots mixxed in with heartseekers and backstabs. I really could not care less that those I faced might have had an easier to play build.

There a reason people tire of trash mobs in PVE and want to fight the Bosses that are boosted with exponential health points and skills not available to any player. They want a bit of a challenge at times. Apparently there are those that do not care for such. To each their own.

When I play Golf against my Cousin I am given a handicap to make it a bit more competitive. She does not whine about it anymore than I whine when she shoots off the ladies tee. I enjoy at least trying to beat her even with my 15 stroke handicap and she finds it a bit more competitive to try and beat me by more then 15. I play maybe 3 times a year and she plays all the time . If I break 90 I am elated. It is a GAME. This is not a livelihood.

And no, there no build that can kill another in a millisecond.

Pfft, I decided to roam on power core mes with no cleanse, only things giving issues were outnumbered fights, took on a condi mes and condi scrapper at the same time!

The condition meta is lame especially on some builds which put out lots of conditions on most attacks but the power meta for some classes is also really lame which Nikkenella and Chorizon conveniently leave out. Power scrapper (note we don’t know what stats specifically, they could be half wanderer for all we know) is one of the safest builds out there with plenty of stealth, healing, boons and hard power mitigation. It’s as much a part of the problem as condi chrono but all of them die if they don’t know what they’re doing unless they run as soon as they mess up.

The condi builds are a problem because of dire/trailblazer not the builds entirely but then I also think there’s too much stealth carrying bad players.

apharma.3741:

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

I can kill them, that’s not the point. it isn’t fun to fight against someone that has to put in minimal effort to fight me. And that’s precisely what condi allows players to do in it’s current state. It allows players to punch above their weight limit and compete against people the would normally stand zero chance against and would most likely die in a millisecond when fighting against them.

When i kill some annoying condi scrub that just facetanks and never dodges, just because their cheese build allows them to play poorly and not be punished for mistakes, while i have to play perfectly to kill them, its not the least bit fun. I don’t feel accomplished by killing them, i feel frustration that poor game mechanics can carry someone that hard who I know for a fact if they weren’t playing some tanky condi build, would have died in a split second against me making the same mistakes. Its a risk vs reward issue NOT a skill issue. Are you really that ignorant that you can’t comprehend that? Or are you just trying to troll me at this point?

It is not fun for you. It is fun for me. Tonight I decided to roam with my pure power thief using JUST trickster as a cleanse. Went for hours before finally dying and I died to power. Came close a few times to some of those necro Condition builds but managed to get out of harms way and heal with just a sliver of health remaining.

Those Condition builds were dropping to 3.5K kitten k shadowshots mixxed in with heartseekers and backstabs. I really could not care less that those I faced might have had an easier to play build.

There a reason people tire of trash mobs in PVE and want to fight the Bosses that are boosted with exponential health points and skills not available to any player. They want a bit of a challenge at times. Apparently there are those that do not care for such. To each their own.

When I play Golf against my Cousin I am given a handicap to make it a bit more competitive. She does not whine about it anymore than I whine when she shoots off the ladies tee. I enjoy at least trying to beat her even with my 15 stroke handicap and she finds it a bit more competitive to try and beat me by more then 15. I play maybe 3 times a year and she plays all the time . If I break 90 I am elated. It is a GAME. This is not a livelihood.

And no, there no build that can kill another in a millisecond.

Pfft, I decided to roam on power core mes with no cleanse, only things giving issues were outnumbered fights, took on a condi mes and condi scrapper at the same time!

The condition meta is lame especially on some builds which put out lots of conditions on most attacks but the power meta for some classes is also really lame which Nikkenella and Chorizon conveniently leave out. Power scrapper (note we don’t know what stats specifically, they could be half wanderer for all we know) is one of the safest builds out there with plenty of stealth, healing, boons and hard power mitigation. It’s as much a part of the problem as condi chrono but all of them die if they don’t know what they’re doing unless they run as soon as they mess up.

The condi builds are a problem because of dire/trailblazer not the builds entirely but then I also think there’s too much stealth carrying bad players.

I really do not think DIRE and TB the problem people make them out to be. I mean after all the guy claimed that were those builds NOT in that tanky armor he could kill them in a split second.

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

The more one plays, the better becomes, the more desires a better challenge – since the old becomes way too easy. WvW needs a higher “tier”, whatever is that, or the better players will leave – if there is any other game they can find that “next level”.

For newbies is fine. If you just spend a few months, it’s your first MMO or PvP, likely you are astounded of all these “whining” posts saying that WvW is too easy and boring. But soon you will feel the same, you will crave a fight that can test you and help you improve further. See in Chess for example, a level 1600 rank vs 1000 rank is rarely challenging for the 1600, but it’s very difficult for the 1000. It’s just an example of course. WvW needs “challenging content” for those “1600 rank and higher” who are still needed here, because those “rank 1000” need them.

This is where GvG could fit in. The new fight over territories could be a way to make this a reality – open field limited space, where only 15vs15 can enter, from either side (even if it is 3 way). Anything else as well. The “old and boring” place a ram at gate and cata, and so on can stay too. All these can complement each other. Just keep the best players busy with some RvR kind of 10 to ~20 team based PvP, that is on their level.

babazhook.6805:

apharma.3741:

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

I can kill them, that’s not the point. it isn’t fun to fight against someone that has to put in minimal effort to fight me. And that’s precisely what condi allows players to do in it’s current state. It allows players to punch above their weight limit and compete against people the would normally stand zero chance against and would most likely die in a millisecond when fighting against them.

When i kill some annoying condi scrub that just facetanks and never dodges, just because their cheese build allows them to play poorly and not be punished for mistakes, while i have to play perfectly to kill them, its not the least bit fun. I don’t feel accomplished by killing them, i feel frustration that poor game mechanics can carry someone that hard who I know for a fact if they weren’t playing some tanky condi build, would have died in a split second against me making the same mistakes. Its a risk vs reward issue NOT a skill issue. Are you really that ignorant that you can’t comprehend that? Or are you just trying to troll me at this point?

It is not fun for you. It is fun for me. Tonight I decided to roam with my pure power thief using JUST trickster as a cleanse. Went for hours before finally dying and I died to power. Came close a few times to some of those necro Condition builds but managed to get out of harms way and heal with just a sliver of health remaining.

Those Condition builds were dropping to 3.5K kitten k shadowshots mixxed in with heartseekers and backstabs. I really could not care less that those I faced might have had an easier to play build.

There a reason people tire of trash mobs in PVE and want to fight the Bosses that are boosted with exponential health points and skills not available to any player. They want a bit of a challenge at times. Apparently there are those that do not care for such. To each their own.

When I play Golf against my Cousin I am given a handicap to make it a bit more competitive. She does not whine about it anymore than I whine when she shoots off the ladies tee. I enjoy at least trying to beat her even with my 15 stroke handicap and she finds it a bit more competitive to try and beat me by more then 15. I play maybe 3 times a year and she plays all the time . If I break 90 I am elated. It is a GAME. This is not a livelihood.

And no, there no build that can kill another in a millisecond.

Pfft, I decided to roam on power core mes with no cleanse, only things giving issues were outnumbered fights, took on a condi mes and condi scrapper at the same time!

The condition meta is lame especially on some builds which put out lots of conditions on most attacks but the power meta for some classes is also really lame which Nikkenella and Chorizon conveniently leave out. Power scrapper (note we don’t know what stats specifically, they could be half wanderer for all we know) is one of the safest builds out there with plenty of stealth, healing, boons and hard power mitigation. It’s as much a part of the problem as condi chrono but all of them die if they don’t know what they’re doing unless they run as soon as they mess up.

The condi builds are a problem because of dire/trailblazer not the builds entirely but then I also think there’s too much stealth carrying bad players.

I really do not think DIRE and TB the problem people make them out to be. I mean after all the guy claimed that were those builds NOT in that tanky armor he could kill them in a split second.

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

There’s a world of difference between these active defences used on a marauder build to a TB build. Marauder can die in 2 bursts, 1 if you’re a really high burst build like dom power shatter. The TB can tank it and escape with about 50% health while the glassier builds will be dead or so close an auto or even non invested condition damage will end them.

Many of these builds have the same active defences and similar traiting to the power variants while also possessing the higher health. They only usually trade burst spike damage for a higher sustained damage, exception to this is gank condi scrapper which spikes and runs usually.

babazhook.6805:

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

You didn’t illustrate, you claimed.
You told us a story with no evidence.
Avoid the bigwerds

You know, we had this Pip thing added to the gamemode, was/is a pretty good idea. Always see threads like this one, or people complaining in-game about low-population, ect. Well, we started to get new people in for the backpack, and other shinies, and what did people do?! “Get the BEEPING BEEP out of WvW you PvE PoS”, and “Lel you PvE Heroes don’t know how to play WvW”, and “All you PvE players wanting the Backpack please LEAVE so actual WvW players can get in”. So after weeks of this going on, even the most avid of collectors left WvW because of the constant badgering coming from, “Veteran” WvW players.

So, you did it to yourself, the next time ANet gives you a golden opportunity to get fresh people into a, “Dying” gamemode, perhaps, don’t be jerks and help them out, a little compassion goes a long way.

Trakarg.2095:

Of course the population is dying. Why would pips keep anyone interested? Any new blood would come in, see how kitten-poor their pip gains are, and leave.

Agreed, the reward at the lower end of the scale is very poor; when your rank is less than 150 and your world is in 3rd place you need 100 ticks to get all your wood chests. That’s 500 minutes or 8 hours 20 minutes a week to get 10 tickets.

A better incentive might have been to give more pips to everyone and to give bonus tickets for rank. So low level players would have a chance of completing the chests and getting decent tickets but might be capped at 75 tickets a week but higher level players would get 175 tickets for the same number of chests.

There’s still plenty of pip farmers “participating”
PvP isn’t for everyone, now you know why.

I don’t think it’s a pip thing. I think they need to get back to basics of allowing smaller groups to make big plays and big plays in general. The meta is boring in it’s current state and they could easily adjust skills to fix it in WvW. They could even use the lore that power surges through you in the mist, thus adjusting how some of our skills work.

To be clear there are still examples of smaller guilds/groups making big plays, but it’s usually against unorganized groups in my experience.

I agree that the condi/red circle meta is brainless. It’s not hard to land a red circle on groups and it’s just way too efficient.

On the other hand, it’s way too easy to have constant boon uptime to counter power damage, so it just reinforces red ring simulator.

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

You didn’t illustrate, you claimed.
You told us a story with no evidence.
Avoid the bigwerds

You are just another person who can not kill a build wearing dire. I get it. If the words I use are too big for you maybe the game is too hard for you.

babazhook.6805:

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

You didn’t illustrate, you claimed.
You told us a story with no evidence.
Avoid the bigwerds

You are just another person who can not kill a build wearing dire. I get it. If the words I use are too big for you maybe the game is too hard for you.

Son who I am is in a link right there for anyone to see.

You?

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

You didn’t illustrate, you claimed.
You told us a story with no evidence.
Avoid the bigwerds

You are just another person who can not kill a build wearing dire. I get it. If the words I use are too big for you maybe the game is too hard for you.

Son who I am is in a link right there for anyone to see.

You?

See I really do not care about garnering your approval. You are just not all that important to me. I know what a power build can do and that enough for me. I do not have to make youtube videos to demonstrate what I already know. if you do not believe it the case, that your choice and no skin off my nose. Really.

Dire has no more mitigation against condition than does Valkyrie. Carrion will put out more damage against a Dire build then vice versa while having the same mitigation to conditions. If a Dire build can survive against another Dire Build then a power build can survive against Dire as they are equal in mitigation when it comes to condition.

There no reason a Power build can not have the same health as a dire build. (or for that matter toughness if they want to take a hit to health)

That a dire build can survive longer is not a reflection of the OP nature of Dire or TB. It is a reflection of how much power damage can be pumped out by a power build and how quickly a person can be dropped in lighter armors by power. You implied much the same yourself when you stated a person in Dire against a high burst build will escape with around 50 percent health. This suggests another such burst will have downed him.

By implication those complaining about DIRE and TB want them to have less survival ability from power bursts. This tends to mean shorter fights with whomever strikes first having the upper hand and IMHO would be a boring meta. I really do not mind entering into a fight that will take me longer. It how I get better at the game.

The issue is not DIRE or TB when it comes to condition builds. It damage all around from both the side of power and the side of conditions. I also feel Saerni has it right on this score in that all of those added cleanses (and or resistance) has helped lead to Condition builds being “burstier” in nature as they have to ensure they get as much damage as possible in between those cleanses or when resistance applications on cooldowns.

babazhook.6805:

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

LetoII.3782:

babazhook.6805:

As I illustrated with the example of thief, there more then enough POWER damage available to kill someone in Dire. After all with the thief it is not the armor saving you in any case. it is the dodges and stealth and ports. Added to that, If I take a few cleanses I can mitigate as much damage and more coming from a condition build as someone can mitigate wearing dire to mitigate damage from a power build.

You didn’t illustrate, you claimed.
You told us a story with no evidence.
Avoid the bigwerds

You are just another person who can not kill a build wearing dire. I get it. If the words I use are too big for you maybe the game is too hard for you.

Son who I am is in a link right there for anyone to see.

You?

See I really do not care about garnering your approval. You are just not all that important to me. I know what a power build can do and that enough for me. I do not have to make youtube videos to demonstrate what I already know. if you do not believe it the case, that your choice and no skin off my nose. Really.

Ahhh

Firmly in the Cool Story Bro zone then.

See? I can go back and edit my posts too.
Oh, and I was around for the Carter administration. <3

This is my hybrid build WvW using Carrion. Note that when stacked he has same damage output as Dire or TB from Conditions. His health is as high as any dire or TB user while his toughness/armor the same as any power build in Zerker. This works very well against Dire or TB condition builds . It can be downed quickly by a power build but then so can any other power build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lClOhFNBemC8PhFYCz7LsoGRaJgAQBYuDeCbhA-TFyBQBA4JAgwTAwU2fQTq/4SlgIT5Xf0HQgDBApAWUsF-w

He will lose the Pizza condition duration on Tuesday but this no real loss as it not built around durations outside Poison. Absorption is due to interrupts being readily available and needing a way to strip resistance.

It hardly unique as others use much the same but mitigation towards power tends to be stealth and dodges just like those power builds.

Now I can easily slap DIRE or TB on him but I would lose an edge against Condition builds using the same while my survival against power builds would increase against that initial burst. These are tradeoffs I would rather not make. Dire and TB would not increase damage. Overall , even if considering added durations out of TB it would drop.