Post Your Concerns & Ideas for Alpine

Post Your Concerns & Ideas for Alpine

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

There are a few pre existing issues I hope will be addressed before Alpine map is brought back. This post is not about which map is better or when this or that will be released. I think it would be a good idea for people to post ideas of what can be fixed or improved before it is brought back.

-What will happen to the center of the map, will bloodlust come back or will it be removed/replaced?

-Please do not allow spawn siege to become an issue again, fix this once and for all.

-Will Towers be in the same position or moved in the same style as the DBL?

-What if anything will happen to the skritt/centaur/JP areas, will they be removed/replaced?

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion. Or make them all ambients.

Any other concerns, suggestions you have please add them. I would like this to be a constructive post, since many of us are looking forward to its return, lets help anet make some good changes, if they havent yet.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

(edited by X T D.6458)

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Nice post XTD. +1.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: kins.3294

kins.3294

Does it really matter?

It will still have all of the kittend HoT stuff on it so…. It’s already a fail.

I really do not understand how they cannot see and read in the 10 million threads that WvW’ers do not want the HoT junk.

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Posted by: Skynet.7201

Skynet.7201

Does it really matter?

It will still have all of the kittend HoT stuff on it so…. It’s already a fail.

I really do not understand how they cannot see and read in the 10 million threads that WvW’ers do not want the HoT junk.

I agree.

Don’t want to see airships over Garri, or chilling fog there or in Bay/Hills.

Said it before, I’ll say it again, we just wanted a new map with new scenery. No bells, whistles, gizmos or gadgets.

We created the perfect infiltration machine.
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Posted by: kins.3294

kins.3294

Does it really matter?

It will still have all of the kittend HoT stuff on it so…. It’s already a fail.

I really do not understand how they cannot see and read in the 10 million threads that WvW’ers do not want the HoT junk.

I agree.

Don’t want to see airships over Garri, or chilling fog there or in Bay/Hills.

Said it before, I’ll say it again, we just wanted a new map with new scenery. No bells, whistles, gizmos or gadgets.

I did want an epic castle to fight over like a 3 walled beast in the center of the map, kind of like SM 2.0 only more epic.

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

I know it’s a small thing but I’d really like to see the old gathering nodes return instead of those stupid hologram ones in the structures. First off, it’s nice to see what you are harvesting so you can skip crap like copper, secondly it gives you another thing to do while roaming around. I feel like sticking them in the structure just rewards the karma trains more than anything.

Structures should stay in their current location, the threat they pose makes the map more interesting.

I absolutely support the removal of all PvE mobs. IF anet feels they have to keep some then just leave some wolves or coyotes right in front of spawn, so the only thing they will interfere with is spawn camping.

And yeah, like skynet said, keep that kittening chilling fog off the map.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: kins.3294

kins.3294

I know it’s a small thing but I’d really like to see the old gathering nodes return instead of those stupid hologram ones in the structures. First off, it’s nice to see what you are harvesting so you can skip crap like copper, secondly it gives you another thing to do while roaming around. I feel like sticking them in the structure just rewards the karma trains more than anything.

Structures should stay in their current location, the threat they pose makes the map more interesting.

I absolutely support the removal of all PvE mobs. IF anet feels they have to keep some then just leave some wolves or coyotes right in front of spawn, so the only thing they will interfere with is spawn camping.

And yeah, like skynet said, keep that kittening chilling fog off the map.

I only want to see bunnies on the map, nothing more, also the return of the ORBS would be very nice.

Always fun to fight over objectives of power.

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

I know it’s a small thing but I’d really like to see the old gathering nodes return instead of those stupid hologram ones in the structures. First off, it’s nice to see what you are harvesting so you can skip crap like copper, secondly it gives you another thing to do while roaming around. I feel like sticking them in the structure just rewards the karma trains more than anything.

Structures should stay in their current location, the threat they pose makes the map more interesting.

I absolutely support the removal of all PvE mobs. IF anet feels they have to keep some then just leave some wolves or coyotes right in front of spawn, so the only thing they will interfere with is spawn camping.

And yeah, like skynet said, keep that kittening chilling fog off the map.

I only want to see bunnies on the map, nothing more, also the return of the ORBS would be very nice.

Always fun to fight over objectives of power.

The orbs were fun but returning them would require anet to actively do something about hackers, especially since free accounts makes it so easy for them to return. Still I’d rather deal with hackers rather than have the ruins replaced with shrines that create annoying environment effects, or have the area replaced with the map lagging dino skyhammer meta event. Hackers were only annoying some of the time, that crap ruined the bl on a daily basis.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

I know it’s a small thing but I’d really like to see the old gathering nodes return instead of those stupid hologram ones in the structures. First off, it’s nice to see what you are harvesting so you can skip crap like copper, secondly it gives you another thing to do while roaming around. I feel like sticking them in the structure just rewards the karma trains more than anything.

I also detest the gathering synthesizers. They were implemented for two reasons:

1. The Economy: As with a lot of changes, the traditional gathering nodes were removed and replaced so as to manipulated the in-game economy. Previously, WvW players had access to a decent amount of Iron and Platinum; Soft, Seasoned, and Hard wood logs. I know that I could take care of most of my material needs simply through my WvW travels. Well, we can’t have that! The drop rates of the synthesizers are such that unless you have a gem-store gathering tool, it is generally a value loss to collect from the Ore and Lumber synthesizers. Platinum has stabilized to pre-HoT values (and Soft requirements were modified) but the rest have remained high. As a WvW player, you can either dedicate extra time to gathering in PvE maps, or have gold siphoned from the economy via the TP.

2. Reward Structure: As the prior poster suggests, it was done to encourage capturing structures. Previously, a WvW player could collect resources (“rewards”) without necessarily participating directly in the points game. Can’t have that! By hiding nodes in towers and keeps, you are adding one more element that drives players to the train.

Not only are the synthesizers crude and bizarre, they’re kind of just another dirty trick played on the WvW population.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

But, all right, you want to try to stay constructive. The best thing they can do is not do much of anything. The maps worked. That’s why people enjoyed them; that’s why they want them back.

By “spawn siege,” I assume the OP is referring to sites being built in invulnerable spots. Yes, fix that.

The map layout is fine. Honestly, leaving some wildlife around the edges wouldn’t be so bad, but the main avenues would be better cleared out. In any case, I would strongly argue for keeping ambients on the map, especially near spawn, as that actually does matter from a gameplay perspective.

I expect that part of the “retro-fitting” is including the travel limitations present on the Desert BLs. Please don’t do that. Let players use a waypoint that their side owns. The old BLs played like each server’s “turf”; the home team advantage was part of the game. Trying to create a three-way balance on every map has contributed to people simply not caring, and mindlessly trading keeps.

With waypoint restrictions, the Alpine will play “bigger” because travel times cannot be realistically shortened. The garrison is easily accessible and readily contested, meaning the home team will constantly be respawning from the Citadel — far from the action.

How about this? Don’t make waypoints permanent (not the first time it’s been suggested, I know). Make it so that waypoints appear at one of the upgrade stages (even relatively early, since it was common practice to push for a waypoint before significant defense upgrades), and then are accessible by the owning force. This way, people care about fighting for a structure and people can travel about the map quickly.

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Posted by: msalakka.4653

msalakka.4653

Leave the old waypoint system in place. Whoever owns the keep can have a waypoint there once it’s fortified.

Get rid of the automatic Marked on invaders after flipping a keep.

Gutter Rat [cry] | Gandara | Roaming nuisance
~ There is no balance team. ~

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion.

As a D/D thief I’m always fond of wildlife.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion.

As a D/D thief I’m always fond of wildlife.

C&D is so much more satisfying to use on players isnt it? Seriously though they add nothing to the gamemode but rather can have more of a negative impact.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

Leave the old waypoint system in place. Whoever owns the keep can have a waypoint there once it’s fortified.

Get rid of the automatic Marked on invaders after flipping a keep.

My suggestion for waypoints would be:

Garrison/EB keep-Cannot be waypointed by enemies. Waypoint available with first upgrade for home server only.

BL Side Keeps-Can be waypointed by anyone when upgraded to tier 3

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

@Puck, and Ocosh, I dont really have an issue with the gathering nodes personally. I think they are nice little freebie after you cap stuff, even though I always skip it.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: RodOfDeath.5247

RodOfDeath.5247

-Spawn siege removal

-Remove chilling fog, stealth fountain bs, and whatever else gimmicky crap they put in smc

-No emergency WPs, work for your save

-I don’t need the entire enemy blob to know I’m taking a sentry point. Love your roamers anet, remove marked invaders.

-Utilize that stupid harathi and skritt areas in old Bl in the ne and nw corner. Just add another camp or something. In the years I’ve played, never seen one soul there. Or you could get GIRLS GONE WILD and add a small look out tower/post. Utilize your map for good not useless data like a skritt running around like an idiot.

-Wildlife is ok I guess, for a roamer they just get in the way when I try to escape a 50 man blob chasing me and puts me in combat. Maybe one of those 1 HP bar types is fine, just not level 80.

NO GIMMICKS, at this point in the game anet should be plenty aware what the wvwers would like to see, you have three forums essentially. Enough excuses start cutting the fat and let’s move forward.

We don’t want to hear “we don’t really know what wvwers want”. Well I’d ask whose fault is that?

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

@RodofDeath, what do you think of Sentries showing players only when there is a certain amount that get marked, for example if 10 players attack the sentry they will get shown on the map, but if 1 or 2 attack it, they wont be. This way it can keep sentries useful but wont constantly give away roamers.

Basically a scaling mechanic for the marked effect.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

(edited by X T D.6458)

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Re: Gathering Synthesizers: I resent them because they were the product of a change that had two very small contributions to the overall trend of deterioration of the game mode. 1. Through impoverishment, players are driven from WvW. 2. They reward k-training and penalize small group play.

Re: What Sentries See: On the one hand, I know I use the number of dots to suggest my actions. If I am roaming and I see few dots, I know that’s where the action is; if I see many dots, I know to avoid it as I will be blobbed down. If I am raiding and I see few dots, I know to avoid it as it’s no fun to blob down roamers; if I see many dots, I know that’s where the action is.

At the same time, implementing a marking threshold wouldn’t be the worst thing . . . but I’m not sure what it would accomplish. If we set it to X, then a moving sentry flag simply tells me that there are < X players right there, which is almost identical to what we have now, only slightly less informative.

Let us not forget that wildlife — aggressive, passive, or ambient — does allow those professions with targeted shadowsteps (guardian, revenant, thief) certain mobility. Whether or not you play one or like them is immaterial; what matters is that the game mode was designed and has operated with that in mind. Every Necromancer knows the pain of warhorn 5 clipping a beastie and ironically slowing you down, and just as well the pain of being out of LF and looking for something to pop for a fix. I don’t like being divebombed by griffons or tagged by skelk, but I’m not in favor of a completely lifeless map. The presence of non-combatants provides an unconscious suggestion of the “war” that we are fighting, which, whether or not you acknowledge it, can contribute to your engagement in the game mode. You might find that you miss what previously struck you as an irritant when it’s gone.

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

Batman.. I mean the Dev, said that they would not introduce Shrines on Alpine. I for one hope that Bloodlust comes back, I really loved that area of the map.

Agree on moving wildlife and other random creatures away from the "busy spots" around objectives and the main roads between them. Fully ok with leaving them in the corners and nooks around the map where they don’t interfere with the fights for objectives. The idea if keeping them near spawn is great

Arguably, make more creatures into the "white" ones that die to single hit and stuff, don’t think they would significantly mess up *too* much. -_-’

No SMC on Alpine, so we don’t have to worry about the airship thing, and other SMC only nerfgrades. So lets just see what happens with the extra timer on all of the ones that does work on keeps. More curious about any plans to counter proxy cata and double cata spots ? Or are we forever going to defend Hills and Bay at the same 2 spots ? :p

Kind of like the "middle ground" idea on WP’s, enable WP for any server once it reaches the first upgrade. So people have a chance to siege it to take it down before it reaches the last upgrade. Would give people something to fight for and defend, and something to rush to take down before it gets too hard ?

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion.

As a D/D thief I’m always fond of wildlife.

C&D is so much more satisfying to use on players isnt it? Seriously though they add nothing to the gamemode but rather can have more of a negative impact.

This is why ANet invented ranger-pet’s, bring your own PVE, so the Thief can trash you

Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion.

As a D/D thief I’m always fond of wildlife.

C&D is so much more satisfying to use on players isnt it? Seriously though they add nothing to the gamemode but rather can have more of a negative impact.

Oh yeah, if you can get through all the passive and active blocks that is – so leave me my wildlife
I’m sorry that you sometimes slaughter a deer.

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

What I’d like to see:

- Centaur and Skritt camps repurposed or made significant somehow. I’d happily see them given mercenary status so there’s a reason to spend time in that part of the map.

- Something in place of where the orb used to be. Maybe put another objective there or just bring the orb back in some fashion.

What I don’t want to see:

- The new upgrade system. It still needs tweaking to meet the demands of the WvW populace. Removing the gold sink was great, but entirely removing the choices made for upgrades has effectively removed part of WvW – which I find really odd.

- The DBL waypoint system. Spending the time establishing a stronger foothold in an enemy borderland was a major accomplishment and provided a very clear and important aim for WvW players – this was signified by waypoint construction. We’re currently limited to only having a non-constructable waypoint in our closest keep which just isn’t very interesting at all. Again, the new system has just removed content from WvW.

Gandara

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

They need to include enough ambients for the solo roaming necros.

I said this during the beta of the desert maps, they should have kept the character models of the all the wildlife but just made them ambient, its a win-win you keep the immersion and get rid of the pve nuisance while not making a solo roaming necro’s life harder than it already is.

Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

I like the idea of changing creatures to ambients, maybe scatter them around the map. This way they can be useful for profession mechanics like fueling death shroud, and be useful for people who need to leap if they have auto attack on, and dont want to get that accidental backward leap :/. It would also be less meddlesome. And the immersion factor is important for some, so that could also still work.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

-Please remove all wildlife like the wolves and moas by garrison and north towers, griffons by bay, bears by hills, etc. Luckily they no longer rally people, but can still screw up targeting, eat up aoes, and put you in combat. It is just unnecessary in my opinion.

As a D/D thief I’m always fond of wildlife.

C&D is so much more satisfying to use on players isnt it? Seriously though they add nothing to the gamemode but rather can have more of a negative impact.

Oh yeah, if you can get through all the passive and active blocks that is – so leave me my wildlife
I’m sorry that you sometimes slaughter a deer.

The blocks are to keep your filthy daggers off my shiny armor. I dont care about slaughtering deers, I dont like when they come looking for trouble lol

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: RodOfDeath.5247

RodOfDeath.5247

@RodofDeath, what do you think of Sentries showing players only when there is a certain amount that get marked, for example if 10 players attack the sentry they will get shown on the map, but if 1 or 2 attack it, they wont be. This way it can keep sentries useful but wont constantly give away roamers.

Basically a scaling mechanic for the marked effect.

I fully get the servers that are cliche and say “we here for the fights” like a toothless redneck who use to be a good boxer, but for us roamers or small havoc crews it is kinda fun to ninja towers and then see a 50 man blob arrive at the tower just to see it flip.

Hence….why….roamers are so important to the game. We can provide intel and scout for you big gigantic groups. I think that the sentry points are hurting the game. Seems like someone at anet went to options and set wvw to “easy mode” in my opinion.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

One thing I would like to see is a layout redesign of the towers. One of the problems of the dbl is how structures have little strategic value as opposed to alpine where pretty much everything had some form of strategic value. This is especially true of towers.

This could be a good thing, and a bad thing. An enemy blob could turtle up in a northern tower build up some trebs and just keep the home server on the defensive for hours, essentially bringing their actions in other maps to a standstill. While this could bring on a lot of action and fun. It could also hurt servers ppt having to stay on the defensive for so long because a blob turtled up in a tower, and frustrate many people because it could be done from 2 sides, and it was to easy to repeat this over and over.

One thing I would like to see is to have towers redesigned so a lords room always faces the opposite side the keep it is closest to. So for example Northwest tower lords room would be on the west side instead of the center. The reason is that trebs built up their have a height and reach advantage but cannot be countered. If you want to siege the keep, you should have to build the treb on the wall, and if you want to counter treb you should do the same, this would make it more balanced and force people to defend. Too often you have a blob take a tower, put up some trebs, and feel free to run around the map because their trebs could not be countered. This unfortunately led to spawn siege. Southwest tower is a good example of this counter imbalance, lords room trebs could hit bay, but could not be hit back.

Now I know about other counters, (ballista at ruins for swt for example) we dont need to go into details. I just think simple changes to make it a little more balanced and promote more healthy gameplay.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

The reason is that trebs built up their have a height and reach advantage but cannot be countered. If you want to siege the keep, you should have to build the treb on the wall, and if you want to counter treb you should do the same, this would make it more balanced and force people to defend. Too often you have a blob take a tower, put up some trebs, and feel free to run around the map because their trebs could not be countered.

Garri’s roof. I never tried it myself but trebs from there should counter the trebs from NW and NE.
Only keep that couldn’t counter trebs from towers was/is Bay and Briar.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

The reason is that trebs built up their have a height and reach advantage but cannot be countered. If you want to siege the keep, you should have to build the treb on the wall, and if you want to counter treb you should do the same, this would make it more balanced and force people to defend. Too often you have a blob take a tower, put up some trebs, and feel free to run around the map because their trebs could not be countered.

Garri’s roof. I never tried it myself but trebs from there should counter the trebs from NW and NE.
Only keep that couldn’t counter trebs from towers was/is Bay and Briar.

Dont think they can reach, if you have trebs on garri wall, they cant reach that far for nwt, but can go a little further for net iirc. But either way, thats just more height/range imbalance if roof trebs were useable in this situation.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Dont think they can reach, if you have trebs on garri wall, they cant reach that far for nwt, but can go a little further for net iirc. But either way, thats just more height/range imbalance if roof trebs were useable in this situation.

Higher = farther.
Don’t know if it’s really imbalance if you can counter a treb from there. But in the end you can get the outer walls out with a treb as far as I remember (might be wrong and I’m only remembering NE tower).
And btw you wanted a counter so why is this imbalance (if it works)?

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

Dont think they can reach, if you have trebs on garri wall, they cant reach that far for nwt, but can go a little further for net iirc. But either way, thats just more height/range imbalance if roof trebs were useable in this situation.

Higher = farther.
Don’t know if it’s really imbalance if you can counter a treb from there. But in the end you can get the outer walls out with a treb as far as I remember (might be wrong and I’m only remembering NE tower).
And btw you wanted a counter so why is this imbalance (if it works)?

Counters have to work both ways lol. Thats why I said trebs should be built on walls, not of reach lords rooms, or supply hut (forgot to mention those). The imbalances with abl is with range/height when it came to using seige inside one structure to attack another. I want it to be more balanced for defenders and attackers. It needs to keep the strategic value, but cannot have the favor shifted towards the attacker who can just turtle up in a tower and build trebs that cant be properly countered. It was hard enough when you had one blob inside one of those towers, but when you had another show up on the other side, it could make it near impossible to defend.

I would think these are some of the reasons, the dbl towers were layed so far apart, but that took away all strategic value. I think making some minor changes, would help prevent the problems from before and keep the strategic value of alpine.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Counters have to work both ways lol. Thats why I said trebs should be built on walls, not of reach lords rooms, or supply hut (forgot to mention those). The imbalances with abl is with range/height when it came to using seige inside one structure to attack another. I want it to be more balanced for defenders and attackers. It needs to keep the strategic value, but cannot have the favor shifted towards the attacker who can just turtle up in a tower and build trebs that cant be properly countered. It was hard enough when you had one blob inside one of those towers, but when you had another show up on the other side, it could make it near impossible to defend.

I would think these are some of the reasons, the dbl towers were layed so far apart, but that took away all strategic value. I think making some minor changes, would help prevent the problems from before and keep the strategic value of alpine.

If it’s build on walls you only need an ele (or any other class) to walk up on said tower and destroy it which is equally cheesy and which has been different back in the day – I’d like it to somewhat be like that again.
It was balanced that is what I’m trying to tell you.
The other day; we’ve had a T2 or T3 SM – enemies were capping all towers around and my server had no clue that you can get most of the trebs (except klovan supply hut and red keep) with mortars from SM – so I guess in some cases it’s lack of knowledge how to get stuff out.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

I dont see the problem with people using their skills to destroy siege. What exactly is wrong with that, they are out in an exposed position vulnerable to bunkered enemies with siege. One skill that has random hits, would it better if there was nothing that could hit siege?

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
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Posted by: Naithe.4271

Naithe.4271

I’ve always felt DBL could be saved, I know Terza put a lot of time into it.

That being said, if Alpine is going to comeback, here’s my suggestions:

- Remove exploits, spawn trebs in particular. We play this game to win (PPT and fights) in the end, so cheats need to removed. Building siege that is impossible or extremely hard to counter (because the people manning them are invincible) MUST be removed.

- Limit or completely remove all of the HOT guild changes that make the game unbearable and hurt smaller guilds. Some things that were good with the changes include sentries, supply drops, temporary structure immunity and the tower radar.

- Change the way lords work. When I beat on a lord for 3-4 minutes because I have 50 people on me. It’s boring. It isn’t engaging content, it isn’t fun. This is PvP. I figure this was put in place to help the defending force save their structure. It isn’t the best way to do it, in my opinion. The other tactivators already help too much. Add in the lord break bar scaling, etc. Lords should perhaps scale with the upgrade on the structure. Only fortified lords should be extremely hard to take.

- Remove creatures or only put them in less traveled corridors.

- Bring the quaggans back. Honestly though, I think the rune area is nice from a fighting stand point and stimulates fights to help points per spike. I just always liked the quaggans and that owning or appeasing the quaggan areas DESTROYED siege. Bring this back!

So. Good.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

I dont see the problem with people using their skills to destroy siege. What exactly is wrong with that, they are out in an exposed position vulnerable to bunkered enemies with siege. One skill that has random hits, would it better if there was nothing that could hit siege?

Then I don’t see the problem with placing siege where skills can not reach them.

I dont understand your point, if a players skill can hit siege, that siege should be placeable out of range of anything that can hit it? Where is the balance and counter to that?

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

I’ve always felt DBL could be saved, I know Terza put a lot of time into it.

That being said, if Alpine is going to comeback, here’s my suggestions:

- Remove exploits, spawn trebs in particular. We play this game to win (PPT and fights) in the end, so cheats need to removed. Building siege that is impossible or extremely hard to counter (because the people manning them are invincible) MUST be removed.

- Limit or completely remove all of the HOT guild changes that make the game unbearable and hurt smaller guilds. Some things that were good with the changes include sentries, supply drops, temporary structure immunity and the tower radar.

- Change the way lords work. When I beat on a lord for 3-4 minutes because I have 50 people on me. It’s boring. It isn’t engaging content, it isn’t fun. This is PvP. I figure this was put in place to help the defending force save their structure. It isn’t the best way to do it, in my opinion. The other tactivators already help too much. Add in the lord break bar scaling, etc. Lords should perhaps scale with the upgrade on the structure. Only fortified lords should be extremely hard to take.

- Remove creatures or only put them in less traveled corridors.

- Bring the quaggans back. Honestly though, I think the rune area is nice from a fighting stand point and stimulates fights to help points per spike. I just always liked the quaggans and that owning or appeasing the quaggan areas DESTROYED siege. Bring this back!

So. Good.

Nuuu leave the quaggans out of it, they have had enough trauma. Was always funny when they would oneshot the golems from outside the keeps lmao…good times, one sec its saying good morning, next second its zapped dead lol.

The lords scaling def needs tweaks, its annoying to fight hp sponges that spam cc’s while trying to fight off waves of enemies that are porting in.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Naithe.4271

Naithe.4271

But Quaggans removed siege. We need this. Or a global decrease to siege cap (like a lot).

And Quaggans are cuties.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

But Quaggans removed siege. We need this. Or a global decrease to siege cap (like a lot).

And Quaggans are cuties.

Lol yes they are, thats why I dont wanna hit them <3

The siege mechanics need a complete rework, siege cap, acs, shield generators, etc.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
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>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I dont see the problem with people using their skills to destroy siege. What exactly is wrong with that, they are out in an exposed position vulnerable to bunkered enemies with siege. One skill that has random hits, would it better if there was nothing that could hit siege?

Back in the day my buddies and I took a big pride in upgrading and sieging up towers – we had the best spots for everything, then class range increase came, then camera changes came = siege is pretty much useless for defense purposes in any tower/keep – especially since it’s destroyed by one meteor shower – so why have it at all. I don’t really build siege anymore and I don’t really care whether or not it’s refreshed – when I come into a contested tower I might build an AC which is gone the next 10 seconds anyway – that is pretty sad, just think about it – one strategic element of wvw is basically useless. I don’t say that all siege has to be put out by offensive siege but I guess you get my point. And like I said; 2,5 years ago siege still made sense and some of it could be destroyed by players but most had to be put out with other siege. (It’s ok for cannons and oil, they have a much bigger healthpool anyway).

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Posted by: Rocket.1723

Rocket.1723

too many TLDR posts in this thread! <jk>

DBL’s feel laborious…probably because of the previous stated barriers to navigating around them – I’m looking forward to the map changes when they happen because I’m thinking they will make me happy.

The ABL will feel nostalgic. I enjoyed running on them…remember the quaggan event in the middle lake? That felt a lot like PVE, btw. People complained about that until they took it out, then people complained about losing the water combat opportunity. I kinda missed the lake – it was a great way to sneak a massive number of golems up to watergate of garrison undetected

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Posted by: Naithe.4271

Naithe.4271

too many TLDR posts in this thread! <jk>

DBL’s feel laborious…probably because of the previous stated barriers to navigating around them – I’m looking forward to the map changes when they happen because I’m thinking they will make me happy.

The ABL will feel nostalgic. I enjoyed running on them…remember the quaggan event in the middle lake? That felt a lot like PVE, btw. People complained about that until they took it out, then people complained about losing the water combat opportunity. I kinda missed the lake – it was a great way to sneak a massive number of golems up to watergate of garrison undetected

QFT, Quaggan’s 2016. Make it happen.

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Posted by: Ven Zehn.6573

Ven Zehn.6573

DBL: imo was made too large, and the gimmickiness of the various Scribe items was over the top. But, the variances in terrain, both outside and inside objectives, made things interesting.

ABL: Middle area is fine as is imo. Tower/keep positions are fine, as long as spawn siege isn’t allowed.

I don’t mind not being able to counter treb a tower based treb from Garri, each point should have its advantage in such a battle: Tower isn’t as defensible, and siege can be taken out by players more easily. It created a good reason why attackers would want to cap the towers, and why the defenders would want to keep the towers.
In other words, don’t make Garri more defensible than it already is.

One of the things I didn’t like about the new keeps is how incredibly easy they are to defend if the forces are equal, though the emergency WP’s probably added to that.

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

On thought I had regarding trebbing from towers. If you remember the old Alpine SET had this strange off-shot towards hills, a pillar with a destroyable bridge. I never saw it used for anything important at all.

But I always imagined having something similar on all towers towards keeps, with slight range adjustments, so that was the treb spot against keeps etc. That could make people go out and destroy the bridge over to it, and possibly take it down again with siege or meteor storm. Then let the guys in the tower have to repair the bridge again etc.

Don’t know how it would turn out, but just something I’ve always been curious about how would play out.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

On thought I had regarding trebbing from towers. If you remember the old Alpine SET had this strange off-shot towards hills, a pillar with a destroyable bridge. I never saw it used for anything important at all.

But I always imagined having something similar on all towers towards keeps, with slight range adjustments, so that was the treb spot against keeps etc. That could make people go out and destroy the bridge over to it, and possibly take it down again with siege or meteor storm. Then let the guys in the tower have to repair the bridge again etc.

Don’t know how it would turn out, but just something I’ve always been curious about how would play out.

That is interesting, I dont remember if any other structure had something that was destructible other then a wall or gate. I wonder why set was the only one.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

One of the only reasons to even bother with the north towers instead of garri is the option to treb it.

If you can’t hold it it’s your problem. You can retake the tower and only outer garri can be opened that way. I don’t see any problems there.

Trebs have already been a heavily underused siege in terms of offense because they do their job so slow and have few places to be used from.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

One of the only reasons to even bother with the north towers instead of garri is the option to treb it.

If you can’t hold it it’s your problem. You can retake the tower and only outer garri can be opened that way. I don’t see any problems there.

Trebs have already been a heavily underused siege in terms of offense because they do their job so slow and have few places to be used from.

Towers in alpine have an important strategic value which is a good thing, unlike in dbl where they have no significance at all. What I think is the issue that led to promblematic gameplay is that it was simply to easy for a blob to turtle up in a tower, place trebs that were out of range that could still attack the garrison and force a server on the defensive for hours at a time. This was only made worse because another blob can just set up shop at the other tower and do the exact same thing. I just found this problematic and a little to unbalanced.

So while I do believe that structures need to have strategic value, there needs to be more focus paid on proper balance and counters. I mean if this wasnt such a problem it wouldnt have led to that spawn siege crap and the dbl’s making everything have no strategic value whatsoever.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

The only problematic location for a treb on alpine was at sw camp. You could hit outer and inner wall of bay with it and a large force was able to protect it through the choke point.
On the other hand a few realy massive battles evolved around it and mesmer portals had a value there

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

The only problematic location for a treb on alpine was at sw camp. You could hit outer and inner wall of bay with it and a large force was able to protect it through the choke point.
On the other hand a few realy massive battles evolved around it and mesmer portals had a value there

Well those trebs are out in the open and in range of Bay, so it really seems rather clever placement whoever discovered that. And yes there have been some epic fights in swc/nwc/nc, gawd how I miss those

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Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

forum bug

/15 quaggans

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
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Posted by: Cerby.1069

Cerby.1069

With Alpine from what I remember I thought pretty much everything from the keeps Northward was fine and lovely. Everything South of the keeps was annoying and repetitive. Some parts of the SE tower were really the only exception, it had a nice little tunnel and some cool little high rised areas. The npc camps and ruins in the S were some of the worst parts….i would remove these things completely.

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

The only problematic location for a treb on alpine was at sw camp. You could hit outer and inner wall of bay with it and a large force was able to protect it through the choke point.
On the other hand a few realy massive battles evolved around it and mesmer portals had a value there

Well those trebs are out in the open and in range of Bay, so it really seems rather clever placement whoever discovered that. And yes there have been some epic fights in swc/nwc/nc, gawd how I miss those

It wasn’t possible to counter treb from bay so the defender have to go to the camp in order to remove those trebs. Yes there were epic fights about that but if the defenders were badly outnumbered low chances to hold bay.
This will change on the “new” alpine map with shield gens of course….

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

It wasn’t possible to counter treb from bay so the defender have to go to the camp in order to remove those trebs. Yes there were epic fights about that but if the defenders were badly outnumbered low chances to hold bay.
This will change on the “new” alpine map with shield gens of course….

It was possible either with trebs or mortars bay even had mortars on the outer wall.
How about we have ABL back, play some more on it and then complain about what can and can’t be countered? ;)

ETA: Unless you mean trebs in a place where I have never seen them.

(edited by Jana.6831)