Guild Wars 2

If every treb could be countered they would be considered in huge waste of supplies.

I love playing with Trebs because they are so versatile and require so much precision and perfection to be used effectively. Few people actually consider using counter Trebs instead of pure manpower, but they can be deadly if shot properly.

That being said I really don’t want to see every treb counterable because the first guy to be hit is basically done which is simply not worth the supps.

E: also it’s not like the north towers aren’t counterable. You’ve got a pretty open side and some nice camps down there

Entenkommando.5208:

If every treb could be countered they would be considered in huge waste of supplies.

It depends on how fast you are and they hit hard – if you’re really fast you can get all defensive siege out.
Example: Red Keep and the opposing hill – Theoretically they can be countered.

My concerns are:

Will we have the DBL style waypoint system still?
I’d prefer the old style.

Will we still have those spawn treb/seige locations?
Don’t want that back.

Are WvW guild upgrades still going to be stupidly expensive to get?

Are we still going to have spawn and NC switched?
I liked having NC behind the spawn

Will we have barricades?

Will Garrison inner water gate finally benefit from upgrades?

Stuff I hope does get carried over:
Lord scaling.
Upgrades based on dolyaks incoming.
Sentries marking players.

Aezyr.5304:

X T D.6458:

Aezyr.5304:

The only problematic location for a treb on alpine was at sw camp. You could hit outer and inner wall of bay with it and a large force was able to protect it through the choke point.
On the other hand a few realy massive battles evolved around it and mesmer portals had a value there

Well those trebs are out in the open and in range of Bay, so it really seems rather clever placement whoever discovered that. And yes there have been some epic fights in swc/nwc/nc, gawd how I miss those

It wasn’t possible to counter treb from bay so the defender have to go to the camp in order to remove those trebs. Yes there were epic fights about that but if the defenders were badly outnumbered low chances to hold bay.
This will change on the “new” alpine map with shield gens of course….

It was pretty rare for anyone to use that treb spot if they drastically outnumbered the defenders.if they had numbers they could just go to the close cata spot and keep the walls cleared with ele’s, ac’s, or even a Bali from the little ridge outside of sw camp.
Either way that is more of a coverage/population problem than it is a siege problem.

Jana.6831:

Aezyr.5304:

It wasn’t possible to counter treb from bay so the defender have to go to the camp in order to remove those trebs. Yes there were epic fights about that but if the defenders were badly outnumbered low chances to hold bay.
This will change on the “new” alpine map with shield gens of course….

It was possible either with trebs or mortars bay even had mortars on the outer wall.
How about we have ABL back, play some more on it and then complain about what can and can’t be countered?

ETA: Unless you mean trebs in a place where I have never seen them.

The trebs inside the south west camp couldn’t be reached by siege from bay. In additon siege on outer walls (trebs and mortars) will be taken out before obviously.

Reading this stuff about vale’s treb makes me sad. Give it back already, can not wait to sneak around by the hills while they all focus that little entrance. And with sneaking i mean even without stealth!

The Alpine map, just being of the Alpine theme, will bring much more enjoyment to being in WvW than the Desert map. Let’s just hope they do not destroy the enjoyment and aesthetic appeal by adding things like barricades.

Anet is aware and was given documentation of all spawn siege spots to fix last year. It should be taken care of.

Upgrading should be returned to player control. Upgrading had tactics behind it and needs to be returned to the builders, scouts, and escorts who enjoyed it.

are guild gimmicks going to be removed? e.g. banners, invis well……it breaks wvw. alpine will not bring players back until balance is restored. the hot gimmicks are terrible. alpine map is awesome for good wvw fights, zergbusting and epic defense battles. i rember having great fights like garrison no walls or doors defence, same with bay or long lasting hills lordsroom defense…. good times, but the waypoint changes and all the guildghall gimmicks will affect alpines comeback.

selan.8354:

are guild gimmicks going to be removed? e.g. banners, invis well……it breaks wvw. alpine will not bring players back until balance is restored. the hot gimmicks are terrible. alpine map is awesome for good wvw fights, zergbusting and epic defense battles. i rember having great fights like garrison no walls or doors defence, same with bay or long lasting hills lordsroom defense…. good times, but the waypoint changes and all the guildghall gimmicks will affect alpines comeback.

Unfortunately no, the guild upgrades like banners, chilling fog etc (not including those unique to SMC like stealth fountains and airship bombardment) will be added to alpine BL much the same way they are part of the rest of EB. Since they are tied to guild upgrades, they cannot simply be removed from the game, at the very least not without incredible difficulty. But they will have their cooldowns increased by 5-10 minutes, and after the update on tuesday, with the scribing cost changes, there will be more focus on balance for them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Tactivators-alphine-BL-Yes-or-No/first

The guild upgrades should have some way of countering them, if theyre to stay as powerful (relatively) as they are.
Maybe the emergency WP should be a structure, that can be destroyed. So if a server pops theirs, and the attackers notice and respond in time, can shorten the time span of the WP.
Chilling fog, same thing perhaps, each nodule that pulses chill can be destroyed. Or it can be countered with some other guild upgrade of the same tier.

Etc.

Ven Zehn.6573:

The guild upgrades should have some way of countering them, if theyre to stay as powerful (relatively) as they are.
Maybe the emergency WP should be a structure, that can be destroyed. So if a server pops theirs, and the attackers notice and respond in time, can shorten the time span of the WP.
Chilling fog, same thing perhaps, each nodule that pulses chill can be destroyed. Or it can be countered with some other guild upgrade of the same tier.

Etc.

Pretty good idea, would be a lot better then the current way of having people pull a lever and the other side not being able to do anything about it but wait.

My biggest concerns for Alpine are :

1) Anet puts too much HoT garbage in Alpine and it solves none of the issues that players wanted it back to solve. Players wanted Alpine back while they worked on going in the opposite direction of HoT, and if they keep Banners, fog, airships ect in WvW, not only will players not return, more will leave even more upset than they were before.

2) Most wanted Alpine back only as a temporary solution while making good maps with easy to navigate terrain, closer objectives with direct routes and strategic positioning and value. No matter what environment ( Jungle Artic, Desert) focusing on keeping players in nonstop challenging, strategic, fun PvP action the entire time players are on them should be their primary design goal. Designing maps where you bring players together rather than keep them apart should be the primary goal of PvP map design to keep the action flowing.

If you cannot navigate the entire map after drinking a case of beer, it is too complicated and not going to work in a large scale PvP mode.

3) Anet brings back Alpine and thinks this solves all the problems of WvW and when it doesn’t so they give up on WvW since they didn’t bother to listen again in the first place.

They have to start treating WvW like a PvP game mode and focus on rewarding only PVP and not PvE in WvW or it solves none of the problems that made most players leave. Ideas like " meeting players half way" do not bring back players to the game.. it really is all or nothing here and I am not sure they fully understand that.

Kinda sad though, these new maps were suppose to foster small group activity more, similar to the goals of EOTM initially, but it somehow always becomes a zerg fest lol.

But, at the same time, I’ve seen plenty of instances in the DBL’s where multiple smaller forces were able to work together to destroy large zergs. Only issue, these types of fights are few and far between, mostly due to how easy it is to avoid them by hopping into the keeps and sieging up.

The most successful groups know how to use terrain to their advantage, and to be able to react quickly enough, and take advantage of openings that the DBL’s provide, but not many are able to do so.

Who knows though, what if we had these maps during WvW’s more popular days, or during seasons, where more people come out to play, I imagine we could’ve gotten more fights, more strategic thinking. (granted we’d still have to fight against sieged up objectives that are all together too defensible).

I wish the little hill outcrop to the west of Hills couldn’t be counter-trebbed. That would be a great place to create open field battles. But no one uses it because its so easy to counter-treb from safely inside Hills.

I remember early on Izzy pointed it out that was a great place to attack Hills from. Like it was designed that way. I wonder if the devs didn’t count on people counter-trebbing from inside a walled structure?

Well, now that hill treb spot might be more useful with shields available for use.

And if you really wanted, you could have a small team at the wall ready with an AC if they build a counter treb.

Ven Zehn.6573:

Kinda sad though, these new maps were suppose to foster small group activity more, similar to the goals of EOTM initially, but it somehow always becomes a zerg fest lol.

But, at the same time, I’ve seen plenty of instances in the DBL’s where multiple smaller forces were able to work together to destroy large zergs. Only issue, these types of fights are few and far between, mostly due to how easy it is to avoid them by hopping into the keeps and sieging up.

The most successful groups know how to use terrain to their advantage, and to be able to react quickly enough, and take advantage of openings that the DBL’s provide, but not many are able to do so.

Who knows though, what if we had these maps during WvW’s more popular days, or during seasons, where more people come out to play, I imagine we could’ve gotten more fights, more strategic thinking. (granted we’d still have to fight against sieged up objectives that are all together too defensible).

The new mechanics like autoupgrades greatly encouraged zerging because there was no manual interaction required and was no way originally to really stop it. Therefore with the additional defensive buffs like tactivators, shrines, auras, siege buffs, etc it made blobbing more appealing, and sometimes the only way to capture a defended structure.

The many choke points make for some interesting fights, but I personally think there is a few to many and some very badly placed ones. Like the one in fire keep lords room, that bridge between lords room and the waypoint, or air keep on stairs between lords room and waypoint. The overturned scaling and cc spamming of the lords makes it a pain.

The terrain itself proved challenging to many, and simply a pain to navigate. I wouldnt say the map itself is that much larger then Alpine, but it makes more use of the space then alpine did. One common complaint for people is the map feels too large, and makes it difficult to find enemies, or for them to avoid you. The verticality and maze like terrain just proves irritating for many people, sometimes it just feels like a jp+maze.

Man, ide love to see the OG maps back with the island in the center of the BL’s (you would have to get pearls befriend the quaggans etc) But my point is, Underwater combat was hilarious in that area back then. Now a days its like breather? Underwater weps? For what besides pve? :P

Don’t get your hopes up.

The Alpine valley will be implemented with all of the HoT crap on it….

Hence the things that we wanted gone are implemented again… Good job listening/reading Anet…. Good job. (sarcasm, just in case Anet doesn’t get it)

ugh the guild upgrades ruin wvw balance and turn the game into a circus. nah they need to change them and reduce th impact they have or many people wont come back. all these gimmick destroy wvw. and honestly with those horrible guild upgrades that are locked behind a massive grind, i wont come back. nor will many of those who have left.

they removed the guardstacks and all that but leave such a grindy thing that literally decides a battle in the game…..? nah sorry. this is still breaking the game…

They need to come back to what upgrade was before… Maybe just remove the upgrade cost (in gold).
Bring back that upgrade need supply, manual update trigger, freedom to choose what to upgrade…
Now you have to wait 60 dolly to have reinforced wall ! Before we rushed the wall and the gate and then WP. Maybe running directly to WP…

Now those choice are removed, WP are removed, grindable guild upgrade who give advantage to big guild and killed the small guild.

And so many other thing to say.

Bringing back ABL with the HoT crap is a really bad move from Anet… And this will probably not resolve most of the current issue.

Anet doesn’t listen anyway to the WvW community. We have been saying that we don’t want the HoT junk in WvW.

The only thing left to do is uninstall and looking for greener pastures. Anet thought they were fertilizing WvW however they put so much on it that it turned into a big steaming pile of c r a p

i agree with u sich. all the new stuff they added and the horrible terrible guild upgrades need to be removed. the wp changes are bad, the upgrades removed a big part of the players strategies, the banners domitate the battles and ai is more important than players…. wvw used to be sandbox and now its a disaster. anet needs to go back to basic and rebalance classes for wvw alone and remove every singe guild addon for wvw. keep that in pve.
bringing back the old maps is a good step, but only if hot stuff goes with it…. how about making good wvw and then a seperate pve hot baddies wvw, so people can actually play wvw again.i want to but i hate all the hot stuff..

kins.3294:

Don’t get your hopes up.

The Alpine valley will be implemented with all of the HoT crap on it….

If you hold garrison you will have chill fields and spikes the width of the map all the down to south camp.

Well except that instead of rock spikes its ice spikes. Got to fit the theme better.