Guild Wars 2

DevonCarver.5370:

The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

I’m totally perplexed and miffed by this comment. Maguuma put in a huge effort over the past couple of weeks before the season to get in to Gold and we just scrapped in. Now you’re telling us that we should’ve tanked or not bothered as most likely we would’ve finished top or second in silver and had better rewards?

To be fair, that quote is from September 1st, nearly two months before the leagues started.

winning>loosing

Why should low-ranked servers be punished for being “bad” though?
Because that seems to be what you imply to want.

If you managed to push yourself into Gold League you are apparently Gold League materials, simple as that.

And this comes from someone on a server where the majority of the WvW guilds left the week before league started because they didn’t want to face hard servers in Silver.

Why should a server be punished for putting in a monumental effort to get in to the gold league over servers that tanked it to get in to a lower league for better rewards?

Why should a server who clearly has number superiority get better rewards when numbers doesn’t neccessarily equate to skill?

Why should individuals be punished for staying with their server and not jumping to a bandwagon server like so many others did?

The only fair way is for ANET to reward either the same reward to all who participated or random rewards to all from a set pool of rewards irrelevant of where you finish or what league you’re in.

Right now, if the comment from Devon rings true, all those who from 3-6th place in Gold or Silver would be better off transferring to 1st place Bronze for their rewards (cheapest option) thus decimating the population of those 8 servers. Likewise for the lower ranked servers in Bronze too.

Yup. If the reward is the reason why you play WvW.

All this information has been out there for almost two months before the leagues even started. If the reward was more important to you, then you had ample time to transfer.

In fact, if you recall, they even had a sale on transfer fees in the week leading up to the leagues. Medium population servers were even free. (My server was already in tier 1 at that time and was medium pop btw).

Zamiel.2130:

The only fair way is for ANET to reward either the same reward to all who participated or random rewards to all from a set pool of rewards irrelevant of where you finish or what league you’re in.

This is just silly.

Well as stated, the post was made long before league started, so people should have been fully aware of this.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you are now locked into your server when it comes to reward.
No matter if you transfer to the winning server or whatever you will still get rewards based on your original server.

Why should a server in Bronze automatically get worse reward than people in Gold just because they didn’t manage to get high enough rank to be put in Gold or Silver?

They should give better rewards the lower you place.

The glory, honour and pride of winning should be enough to incentivise you to try your best.

Judging by how Anet usually rewards WvW play, you’ll be getting one blue/green instead of two.

Anyway, if you’re playing WvW for the rewards you’re doing it wrong. I’d suggest a champ train but I hear they’ve been nerfed.

lordkrall.7241:

Why should a server in Bronze automatically get worse reward than people in Gold just because they didn’t manage to get high enough rank to be put in Gold or Silver?

Why should you get better rewards in Bronze than other servers who put in a more consistent effort over many months to end up in a higher rank?

Until there is a more up to date response from ANET regarding this, the disparity will exist and perhaps after. Which ever way you look at it, there’s probably going to be some very annoyed people and to quote a commander from Mag

“I put in a huge effort over the past two weeks, I want a return on my investment!”.

Those sentiments will be shared by many.

Why fight so hard in order to get up to a higher rank if you can’t win the fights?

And as others have stated, if you are playing WvW for the rewards, you are not doing it right. WvW is not about getting rewards, its about the fun. ^^

Zamiel.2130:

Why should you get better rewards in Bronze than other servers who put in a more consistent effort over many months to end up in a higher rank?

I didn’t know that being on a server with better coverage took effort. Or maybe you mean all that effort farming the gold needed to transfer up tiers?

Zamiel.2130:

lordkrall.7241:

Why should a server in Bronze automatically get worse reward than people in Gold just because they didn’t manage to get high enough rank to be put in Gold or Silver?

Why should you get better rewards in Bronze than other servers who put in a more consistent effort over many months to end up in a higher rank?

Until there is a more up to date response from ANET regarding this, the disparity will exist and perhaps after. Which ever way you look at it, there’s probably going to be some very annoyed people and to quote a commander from Mag

“I put in a huge effort over the past two weeks, I want a return on my investment!”.

Those sentiments will be shared by many.

Well if you had posted the full quote, it gives better insight (to help spread out the population):

DevonCarver.5370:

I can’t comment at this time as we haven’t finalized anything. In addition, you should look at it this way, if people flee lower league servers to get into the top leagues, it opens the opportunity for people to move to those lower leagues and finish 1st or 2nd, rather than being in the top league and finishing 6th or 7th. The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

Honestly, as the fellow above said — if you’re playing WvW for the rewards, you’re doing it wrong.

And I’m a little surprised this is coming from someone on Mags, really.

Zamiel.2130:

lordkrall.7241:

Why should a server in Bronze automatically get worse reward than people in Gold just because they didn’t manage to get high enough rank to be put in Gold or Silver?

Why should you get better rewards in Bronze than other servers who put in a more consistent effort over many months to end up in a higher rank?

Until there is a more up to date response from ANET regarding this, the disparity will exist and perhaps after. Which ever way you look at it, there’s probably going to be some very annoyed people and to quote a commander from Mag

“I put in a huge effort over the past two weeks, I want a return on my investment!”.

Those sentiments will be shared by many.

You really need to get out of the self entitled bubble you are living in. The leagues arent one big tournament, if it was then your issue of a lower rank server getting better rewards would be a real issue, but its not. As you should know its broken up into three seperate leagues, so the prie for coming in first in bronze has nothing to do with the prize for coming in 6th in gold.

If you were so concerned with the rewards you had plenty of time to transfer like everyone said.

clint.5681:

You really need to get out of the self entitled bubble you are living in. The leagues arent one big tournament, if it was then your issue of a lower rank server getting better rewards would be a real issue, but its not. As you should know its broken up into three seperate leagues, so the prie for coming in first in bronze has nothing to do with the prize for coming in 6th in gold.

If you were so concerned with the rewards you had plenty of time to transfer like everyone said.

He is from Mag, they live in a self entitlement bubble.

So im assuming you think the Bronze tier doesn’t deserve kitten because we lack coverage? The only thing that separates our server from yours is that coverage. Not the effort put into it. We have people that pull 12 hour shifts because we don’t have the same coverage as the higher tier servers. But I guess we didn’t work hard enough to get into the gold tier. GOD SMITE US FOR OUR SINS WE HAVE FAILED YOU!!!

If you are a WvWer the rewards shouldn’t actually matter. And if they do I advise you to join the multi server guild [PvEr] Filling Up Word vs Word Slots. If your server was able to push to gold looking for fights then good for you. I will flat out say I’m from HoD. We are one of those “tanking” servers that actually did not move any rank what so ever in our tank. We didn’t want to go to silver because we knew it would destroy our server; not because of the rewards. Hell, if the rewards are tradable I will gladly send mine to you so you can work get that legendary weapon you have been so hard trying to get.

Zamiel.2130:

DevonCarver.5370:

The rewards for finishing 2nd in the Bronze League will be markedly better than the rewards for finishing 6th in the Gold league.

I’m totally perplexed and miffed by this comment. Maguuma put in a huge effort over the past couple of weeks before the season to get in to Gold and we just scrapped in. Now you’re telling us that we should’ve tanked or not bothered as most likely we would’ve finished top or second in silver and had better rewards?

Pretty positive that quote is from when Gold league was going to be the top 12 servers and Bronze league was going to be the bottom 12 servers. Always funny to see someone from Maguuma butt-mad about rewards though

Making personal rewards depend on server success is a bad idea

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

the only thing that motivates me personally to get into wvw is my team / server – they really are awesome to fight with – win or lose, the fights are epic. I find these rewards / achievements / events a major distraction to be honest – I actually dread any new updates and events at this point. – not being sarcastic – it’s how I really feel. – I feel that way with microsoft and adobe updates too – your computer is working fine – then boom – they issue some patch that causes major problems. lol – i hate to say it but all these new and improved things – lost their appeal to me – my crew is the best prize in the game.

If playing for rewards in WvW is doing it wrong, let’s get rid of rewards. Let’s make winning meaningless! No buffs, no loot, no WxP, no regular xp, no cash, no karma, no ppt. You fight simply for the sake of fighting! Who’s with me!

Im in……….

Rewarding winner is conventionnal behaviour you know right ?

But…..if you’re doing it for rewards, you’re doing it wrong. People said so upthread.

Jayne.9251:

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

This sounds good in theory, but in reality the winners are determined solely by coverage.

Jayne.9251:

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

If rewards are significant, we’d see another kind of disaster:

One big guild would transfer to a server in Bronze league giving that server an advantage. Other guilds would then bandwagon into the same server. Pretty soon, you’d have one server that would faceroll all competition in Bronze league making the League more of a farce than it already is.

Same would happen in Silver League.

TLDR: Remember when Kaineng rose up from T8 because WM transferred there? Same thing.

I respectfully disagree- the winners are the ones that have the most fun.

I’d rather lose with my crew than win with shiny hunters. – we always win, even when we lose.

1) Maguuma, living in a self-entitlement bubble? That can be said for every other server. We earned gold, with some commanders and larger guilds pulling excessively long stints to try and make it, it wasn’t handed to us. We scrapped in by only a couple of points and wasn’t decided until about an hour before the end of the last match before the start of the season. Up until then, we were destined for silver.

Not sure why Yak’s hates Mags that much, but I guess comments like that made from one of them is a reason why. Personally I couldn’t care about any other server other than my own and I don’t go out of my way to rubbish others.

2) Rewards, why shouldn’t we want them if ANET are giving them out? Why shouldn’t we want a fair reward and not based upon coverage or zerg size?

@Jayne, you say “rewards motivate people to get out there”, it’s not working. Week 1 and 2 we had OK coverage and could put up a good fight with SOS but now that most of the PvErs have done their META, we’re back to being [out numbered] a hell of a lot, so no, it’s not working. It would be great if we could squeeze position #5, but to me and I hope I’m wrong, its looking like last, though we do go up against SOS often.

3) Coverage, Maguuma doesn’t have a great coverage, especially during the oceanic times I play. The only times we have a queue is at reset and it’s not a very long queue.

If ANET truely wanted to balance out server population they would’ve done more to make this happen. Reducing the price was a start, but allowing guilds to transfer with all their upgrades may have made it more enticing.

Lord Kuru is correct, if the status quo remains, when season two starts, the flood gates will open, potentially decimating some servers as it won’t be hard to guess which ones to go to.

Finally, the best thing ANET can now do with the rewards is to make them like pretty much every other reward, crap, with a very small chance of something nice because if there’s a significant difference I won’t be the only one here saying “WTF”.

If they award an ascended back piece to the winning server it will create a buzz about the leagues. There will be movement, but that’s happening even outside of the leagues, only typically in the wrong direction. Lower tier servers screamed about coverage, without physically moving players or randomly assigning servers to players, this is one way to help motivate players to spread out the population.

As for rewards not motivating people, it’s because, at the moment, people think it will be the kind of rewards you are clamouring for — equal for all (why bother then?) or junk (why bother then also?). If the rewards are significant, you can bet there will be a significant population jump in the second season.

The back piece, by the way, would only be great for the winning servers for a short duration, a perk of getting out there and winning the leagues, as anet has indicated they’re working on a way for all WvW players to get them and will introduce that soon. So there’s your equalizer.

This is a competition, coverage wars or not. And each league is a separate entity. Couple that with the fact that all this info had been out there for two months before the leagues started AND they offered a sale on transfer fees before it started up … No one to blame but yourself IF the shiny carrot was more important to you than the actual fights.

Making players compete so everyone gets the same reward kind of takes away from the meaning of the word competition. And why bother to fight for your server, outside of the core WvW crew who will do it regardless, if that’s the end result?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jayne.9251:

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

This sounds good in theory, but in reality the winners are determined solely by coverage.

Jayne.9251:

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

If rewards are significant, we’d see another kind of disaster:

One big guild would transfer to a server in Bronze league giving that server an advantage. Other guilds would then bandwagon into the same server. Pretty soon, you’d have one server that would faceroll all competition in Bronze league making the League more of a farce than it already is.

Same would happen in Silver League.

TLDR: Remember when Kaineng rose up from T8 because WM transferred there? Same thing.

Lol so in one part you complain about a coverage war issue, then the next you say bronze league will be invaded.

You see the problem here? I’m not without sensitivity to fears and what you cited, but this was at least an effort to get people to spread out more. And more players on the map makes for some exciting matches.

People need to stop thinking of league play as one massive unit and instead realize it was separated into three for a reason, mostly the division of coverage to make it an obtainable goal, no matter what your server rank. And mostly so the big rewards weren’t solely given to the top three, which would further stack those servers.

I think you are expecting to much from the WvW season reward…

1 rank up = 2 greens and some silver.
1 achievement chest (so, capping 10 keeps or something) = 1 rare, 1 green.

The reward to effort ratio is still completely out of whack compared to pve. Where i can autoattack some boss for 5min and get twice as big a reward then i would get for capping 10 keeps or killing 450 players.

So what do you expect from season rewards? If the reward so far is any indication expect some badges, a rare or two, some random blueprins and a fistful of silvers.

Jayne.9251:

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

Even if I would be able to play this game 24/7, my personal constribution to the servers win is what? 0,1%?

Malediktus.9250:

Even if I would be able to play this game 24/7, my personal constribution to the servers win is what? 0,1%?

If you are a sheep that only follows a commander yes.

If you on the other hand command yourself, or run around in havoc squads you are contributing quite a bit more.

Yes, but 100 more of people like you who don’t normally come out (because they’re motivated by winning some big shiny), makes a significant dent

Plus if they’re truly motivated to win, they’ll learn how to do it properly to max their servers gain…. At least in theory, lol.

Why are people discussing leagues lol?

It’s apparent that just about every aspect of them were poorly thought through and designed by ArenaNet, which is why there won’t be a Season 2.

Let’s just do what ArenaNet does, ride out this horrible thing, don’t talk or discuss it and then go back to how it used to be.

Please Maguuma did not go into gold league for rewards.

i wouldn’t say they are poorly thought out, I think Anet created a dilemma that they are trying to figure out a way to work – in concept the idea of server vs server is nice – but requires server pride and relatively balanced numbers. The problem is they are trying to fix a flawed system – because it’s not a perfect world and people want the shiny more than they want friends and pride.

They don’t want to enforce rules on everyone because some guilds have bigger numbers than other – and they have ultimately placed themselves in a kitten ed if you do and kitten ed if you don’t position.

The perfect solution would be to kill the score on open world wvw – and leave that to the gamers to create player made tournaments – but I’m quite sure they assume it will all be a grief fest with people killing pve’rs simply for sport lol – and yes that will happen. – but it will also encourage servers to work together to prevent that from happening.

Then make a duplicate of wvw in the sPvp arena – which I’m sure has it’s own issues on the financial / server side

what a tangled web we weave!!

wvw is not a real competition in it’s current state, and imo they are simply wasting time and resources trying to make it one. you can’t call a bad ball good. – making an unbalanced fight competitive was a no go idea – the more you try to fix it – the worse it will get.

lordkrall.7241:

Malediktus.9250:

Even if I would be able to play this game 24/7, my personal constribution to the servers win is what? 0,1%?

If you are a sheep that only follows a commander yes.

If you on the other hand command yourself, or run around in havoc squads you are contributing quite a bit more.

Too many smallscale groups and commanders on the map can weaken your server. One 80 man blob in 1-2 5man groups is the way to go in gold leage.

lol…based on that strategy, I would add bunkers as part of the outmanned buff -

a bunker would be just that – a structure 5 guys can build in the middle of the field to damage 80 man blobs – but bunkers only pop up as part of the outmanned buff and vanish when it’s gone.

Being on Maguuma is it’s own reward.

katniss.6735:

Being on Maguuma is it’s own reward.

See? That’s the Mags I recognize.

Jayne.9251:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jayne.9251:

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

This sounds good in theory, but in reality the winners are determined solely by coverage.

Jayne.9251:

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

If rewards are significant, we’d see another kind of disaster:

One big guild would transfer to a server in Bronze league giving that server an advantage. Other guilds would then bandwagon into the same server. Pretty soon, you’d have one server that would faceroll all competition in Bronze league making the League more of a farce than it already is.

Same would happen in Silver League.

TLDR: Remember when Kaineng rose up from T8 because WM transferred there? Same thing.

Lol so in one part you complain about a coverage war issue, then the next you say bronze league will be invaded.

You see the problem here? I’m not without sensitivity to fears and what you cited, but this was at least an effort to get people to spread out more. And more players on the map makes for some exciting matches.

People need to stop thinking of league play as one massive unit and instead realize it was separated into three for a reason, mostly the division of coverage to make it an obtainable goal, no matter what your server rank. And mostly so the big rewards weren’t solely given to the top three, which would further stack those servers.

all I said was that giving awesome rewards for winning a league is REALLY dangerous (and stupid because coverage determines the winner).

The only way I see population evening out is:

(1) If players realize that with Leagues, stacking into just a few servers decreases the fun because you meet every other server anyway and all you’re doing by stacking is getting more faceroll matches (whereas before, T1 would pretty much always fight with at least one other T1 server).

(2) Queues get so bad that players move.

And by “evening out” I don’t even mean that every server has to have the same coverage — as long as servers that are within a few ranks have comparable coverage, that’s probably sufficient.

And besides, a gold rabbit finisher is better than a silver dragon one.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jayne.9251:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Jayne.9251:

Not really. It motivates you to get out there and fight. If they gave everyone the same reward, people would do the bare minimum possible. It’s human nature, particularly on mmos. … And the far reaching implications would be dismal turnout for season two.

This sounds good in theory, but in reality the winners are determined solely by coverage.

Jayne.9251:

However watch the winners get something significant and you’ll see a stampede for season two … Potentially evening out server population disparities as guild move to take a lower tier server to the winners circle.

If rewards are significant, we’d see another kind of disaster:

One big guild would transfer to a server in Bronze league giving that server an advantage. Other guilds would then bandwagon into the same server. Pretty soon, you’d have one server that would faceroll all competition in Bronze league making the League more of a farce than it already is.

Same would happen in Silver League.

TLDR: Remember when Kaineng rose up from T8 because WM transferred there? Same thing.

Lol so in one part you complain about a coverage war issue, then the next you say bronze league will be invaded.

You see the problem here? I’m not without sensitivity to fears and what you cited, but this was at least an effort to get people to spread out more. And more players on the map makes for some exciting matches.

People need to stop thinking of league play as one massive unit and instead realize it was separated into three for a reason, mostly the division of coverage to make it an obtainable goal, no matter what your server rank. And mostly so the big rewards weren’t solely given to the top three, which would further stack those servers.

all I said was that giving awesome rewards for winning a league is REALLY dangerous (and stupid because coverage determines the winner).

The only way I see population evening out is:

(1) If players realize that with Leagues, stacking into just a few servers decreases the fun because you meet every other server anyway and all you’re doing by stacking is getting more faceroll matches (whereas before, T1 would pretty much always fight with at least one other T1 server).

(2) Queues get so bad that players move.

And by “evening out” I don’t even mean that every server has to have the same coverage — as long as servers that are within a few ranks have comparable coverage, that’s probably sufficient.

Yep. It’s probably why I prefer EU to NA. They have somehow managed to self-regulate and spread themselves out for the fights (you can see evidence of this just based on how close the ratings are between 3rd to about 15th ranked servers). Makes for some exciting matches.

And probably why I have no issue with the winners of the leagues (bronze, silver, gold) getting something awesome, even if my server can only hope to get second place at best.

I want there to be an epic reward for leagues winners. I think it can only mean good things for the second season.

Don’t feel bad OP. Apparently the winners of a league within this first season get some finisher that gets taken away at the start of the next season, so you have to win it again. There’s no point to winning a 7 week struggle beyond regular bragging rights, you have nothing to show for it, but that’s the only “permanent” reward for finishing first/second within a league.

That and the same miniature dolyak pet that everyone, whether they won/lost, receives at the end plus a title that’s outranked by an HoM title “Legend of the Mists.” This is assuming everyone gets the dolyak of course, or even if the dolyak is in the WvW meta chest.

So far the WvW achievement chests I’ve received from killing 450 players, capping 30 towers, etc had what.. blueprints worth less than 1 silver each, some blues and greens.. maybe a rare, badges, stuff like that. Imagine how lackluster the contents of the final meta chest must be. So do not fret since you’re probably missing nothing of importance for coming in 6th place in the gold league.

Malediktus.9250:

Making personal rewards depend on server success is a bad idea

No its practical. You should give a kitten about your server. This is an MMORPG, not an RPG.

• pulls out a lawn chair and pop corn. *