Guild Wars 2

Title says it all. Having moved from t1 to t8 then fought all the way back up to t2. It became quite clear that in most matches it start out close then the server with most off peak hr coverage take everything after 2am in the morning and build up a massive lead . Then the losing teams fight an uphill battle the next night and stops showing up.

I really think it will help WvW to have the pts gained in prime time worth more than the pts gained in off peak hrs. Or else tie the number of pts gained to number of players in WvW. This way the servers with good night/morning pops still get reward but the gap to over come isn’t big enough to discourage the losing servers from try to mount some kind of come back at prime time

Lastly a nightly reset of keeps would also do wonders to encourage people to come out and play. .

Prime time for whom? Are you really going to say that the people playing on my server from halfway across the world are somehow less valid and deserve less points for their efforts?

I’m surprised you didn’t just ask for the game to revolve around you. Oh, but you did.

Mister Mustard.7203:

Prime time for whom? Are you really going to say that the people playing on my server from halfway across the world are somehow less valid and deserve less points for their efforts?

I’m surprised you didn’t just ask for the game to revolve around you. Oh, but you did.

Why are there N/A servers and Euro Servers? If you live cross the ocean you should play on Euro servers. If you chose to play NA servers I don’t see why you shouldn’t be expected to take a small hit .
Edit: same goes for NA players who chose to play on euro servers

Everywhere not in American = europe? I never knew the world was so small!

Whos primetime yours or mine?

Mogar.9216:

Mister Mustard.7203:

Prime time for whom? Are you really going to say that the people playing on my server from halfway across the world are somehow less valid and deserve less points for their efforts?

I’m surprised you didn’t just ask for the game to revolve around you. Oh, but you did.

Why are there N/A servers and Euro Servers? If you live cross the ocean you should play on Euro servers. If you chose to play NA servers I don’t see why you shouldn’t be expected to take a small hit .
Edit: same goes for NA players who chose to play on euro servers

You realise there are players who don’t have the same prime time as you and cannot play on Euro servers because the ping is 100,000. The world is, you know, bigger than you seem to think…

Prime time = times where there are lots of players in WvWvW. A keep captured when there are ques in every zone should worth more than a keep captured when there are only 20 people on the whole map. Pretty simple concept .
It’s easier to break it down to regions because that’s where most players live and it general holds true. log in at 4 am EST on NA servers there are less people than 10 pm EST. So prime time = prime time for the whole server not mine or yours.

Not only does this assume the world should revolve around what happens to you in your time zone but it’s got some great tier bias as well.

Laughable thread.

I work more than 40 hours a week, have a full course load in college, and living with my girlfriend, chances are I’m busy at peak hours.

I’m sorry my life doesn’t revolve around videogames and that I have to actually feel sunlight on my skin.

It’s amazing that you want to punish people that have things to do, I won’t even begin to address the obvious silliness of punishing those outside of the US.

Just because you don’t play at those hours does not mean that a whole lot of us do. Stop being so self centered.

A simpler solution that’s more fair to everyone would be for points per tick to be worth progressively less for continuous control.

Ex: you take a tower, during the first hour each tick gives you 10 points. If you still hold it then the next hour each tick only gives you 8 points. 3rd hour ticks give 5, after 4 hours of uninterrupted control the tower no longer gives points.

This means you don’t keep earning points during empty periods yet no timezone is penalized.

Mister Mustard.7203:

Prime time for whom? Are you really going to say that the people playing on my server from halfway across the world are somehow less valid and deserve less points for their efforts?

If they play against fewer people it stands to reason their efforts shouldn’t count as much. All points should be time and resource based. Simply put, if you have 100 people vs 10 you should get 1/10 the value for anything you own during that time period.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

A simpler solution that’s more fair to everyone would be for points per tick to be worth progressively less for continuous control.

Ex: you take a tower, during the first hour each tick gives you 10 points. If you still hold it then the next hour each tick only gives you 8 points. 3rd hour ticks give 5, after 4 hours of uninterrupted control the tower no longer gives points.

This means you don’t keep earning points during empty periods yet no timezone is penalized.

Wouldn’t this make the stale tiers even more stale with artificially closer score to go along with ultra deadlocking math??

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

You’d use historic values to avoid spikes in the math.

Mister Mustard.7203:

Prime time for whom? Are you really going to say that the people playing on my server from halfway across the world are somehow less valid and deserve less points for their efforts?

If they aren’t playing against a similar population, then yes… they absolutely deserve less points for taking undefended keeps and towers.

Pinko.2076:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

A simpler solution that’s more fair to everyone would be for points per tick to be worth progressively less for continuous control.

Ex: you take a tower, during the first hour each tick gives you 10 points. If you still hold it then the next hour each tick only gives you 8 points. 3rd hour ticks give 5, after 4 hours of uninterrupted control the tower no longer gives points.

This means you don’t keep earning points during empty periods yet no timezone is penalized.

Wouldn’t this make the stale tiers even more stale with artificially closer score to go along with ultra deadlocking math??

Ideally it would also lead to players migrating servers better suited to their playstyles and timezones.

Maladon.5760:

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

You’d use historic values to avoid spikes in the math.

It would need a lot of tweaking for sure, but I think it would work as a solid foundation to fix the coverage issue leading to blowout matches.

edit: The progressive scoring idea given above is also interesting

Linkisdead.9647:

Laughable thread.

I work more than 40 hours a week, have a full course load in college, and living with my girlfriend, chances are I’m busy at peak hours.

I’m sorry my life doesn’t revolve around videogames and that I have to actually feel sunlight on my skin.

It’s amazing that you want to punish people that have things to do, I won’t even begin to address the obvious silliness of punishing those outside of the US.

Just because you don’t play at those hours does not mean that a whole lot of us do. Stop being so self centered.

What time you play is your business. Fact is if you chose to play at a time when there are no one defending any keep taking efforts your effort whatever it was should not count as much as 50+ people’s effort who took that keep in prime time. Why should you be rewarded dis-proportionally just because you play when no one else is around? Funny how you people calling me self centered when you are the ones who want the system work in your favor at everyone else and game’s expense.

Oozo.7856:

Maladon.5760:

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

You’d use historic values to avoid spikes in the math.

It would need a lot of tweaking for sure, but I think it would work as a solid foundation to fix the coverage issue leading to blowout matches.

edit: The progressive scoring idea given above is also interesting

The real question is would it have an effect on player behavior and the various reasons we have blowouts.

In our tier for example, if SBI got fewer points overnight would IoJ and DR see a boost in participation as a result?

Mogar.9216:

Title says it all. Having moved from t1 to t8 then fought all the way back up to t2. It became quite clear that in most matches it start out close then the server with most off peak hr coverage take everything after 2am in the morning and build up a massive lead . Then the losing teams fight an uphill battle the next night and stops showing up.

I really think it will help WvW to have the pts gained in prime time worth more than the pts gained in off peak hrs. Or else tie the number of pts gained to number of players in WvW. This way the servers with good night/morning pops still get reward but the gap to over come isn’t big enough to discourage the losing servers from try to mount some kind of come back at prime time

Lastly a nightly reset of keeps would also do wonders to encourage people to come out and play. .

im going to assume you are on Special K

which makes this laughable considering that [WM] is not a American timezone guild (or so i have been told)

face it, all Tier 1 servers have huge offpeak populations

if you do not like it, transfer to a lower tier, the timezone difference is not as noticable

Maladon.5760:

Oozo.7856:

Maladon.5760:

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

You’d use historic values to avoid spikes in the math.

It would need a lot of tweaking for sure, but I think it would work as a solid foundation to fix the coverage issue leading to blowout matches.

edit: The progressive scoring idea given above is also interesting

The real question is would it have an effect on player behavior and the various reasons we have blowouts.

In our tier for example, if SBI got fewer points overnight would IoJ and DR see a boost in participation as a result?

Probably not a boost, but less of a tapering off I would imagine. There would still be an advantage of having fortified defenses up when the populations normalize again. That is fine, I think. There should be an advantage of having superior coverage.

The main problem is how the score will snowball when one server demonstrates they can just take everything overnight or during work hours. So, the people who don’t PvP for the sake of PvP just stop coming out. But, if there is hope… who knows?

Do you know crazy you sound?

I didn’t choose to play at any certain time, I play when I can.

I honestly can’t think of an idea that would kill wvw faster than this. We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it. Brilliant plan.

Hey all you night shift workers, foreigners, insomniacs,etc…might as well quit now because you don’t mean anything to wvw.

So let me get this straight. You want to be rewarded more than I do for the exact same task. I want everyone to get the same reward, yet I’m the selfish one?

You act like no one during the day back caps or ninjas stuff, how is that any different?

Implement this idea if you want everyone but the unemployed power nerds to quit wvw entirely.

“Hey we need more wvwers!”

“How about we make people who work at certain hours feel completely left out of wvw to the point of quitting?”

“Brilliant!”

Kingzook.1620:

Mogar.9216:

Title says it all. Having moved from t1 to t8 then fought all the way back up to t2. It became quite clear that in most matches it start out close then the server with most off peak hr coverage take everything after 2am in the morning and build up a massive lead . Then the losing teams fight an uphill battle the next night and stops showing up.

I really think it will help WvW to have the pts gained in prime time worth more than the pts gained in off peak hrs. Or else tie the number of pts gained to number of players in WvW. This way the servers with good night/morning pops still get reward but the gap to over come isn’t big enough to discourage the losing servers from try to mount some kind of come back at prime time

Lastly a nightly reset of keeps would also do wonders to encourage people to come out and play. .

im going to assume you are on Special K

which makes this laughable considering that [WM] is not a American timezone guild (or so i have been told)

face it, all Tier 1 servers have huge offpeak populations

if you do not like it, transfer to a lower tier, the timezone difference is not as noticable

Significant coverage differences lead to blowouts in every tier that has that problem.

Kingzook.1620:

im going to assume you are on Special K

I like it haha

Yeop sounds like a KN player has got a dose of reality from being in a tier where we actually fight back. I heard JQ doesn’t have enough people

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it.

People who take undefended keeps and towers are not accomplishing the same task as someone taking a defended keep or tower.

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it. Brilliant plan.

Rewards shouldn’t be the issue, you’d still get the same exp, karma, etc. The PPT is the only thing that would (and should) be affected.

Let’s be honest, blowouts kill the incentive to WvW for many people. Grinding two groups into the ground with 40 people isn’t much of an achievement and shouldn’t be rewarded as such.

Oozo.7856:

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it.

People who take undefended keeps and towers are not accomplishing the same task as someone taking a defended keep or tower.

Impossible to tell who truly has numbers where because each night it varies. That coupled with the fact you would be basically saying anyone who plays SEA/Oceanic primes (which makes up a fair few players would be less valuable than American players which isn’t a good precedence). Keep in mind that WvW has always been a 24/7 game since release. Nothing has change except less players are out there. Do what you can with what you have and at the end of the day that’s all that matters.

Technically speaking; yes they are.

How are you going to quantify this in a fair manner?

What about back capping empty towers, why do you get extra for that?

There’s no fair way to implement it.

Nuked.2360:

Oozo.7856:

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it.

People who take undefended keeps and towers are not accomplishing the same task as someone taking a defended keep or tower.

Impossible to tell who truly has numbers where because each night it varies.

Do you think it’s impossible for Anet to tell?

This post amazes me considering that Kaineng has one of the best Oceanic powers in all of WvW. So yeah I would have to say that is a bad idea lol. It would be taking from your server to make Oceanic time count for less.

Linkisdead.9647:

Technically speaking; yes they are.

How are you going to quantify this in a fair manner?

What about back capping empty towers, why do you get extra for that?

There’s no fair way to implement it.

If people ninja a tower when there is equal population in WvW then one side was outplayed. That is quite different than people sweeping an entire map because there is almost literally no one there to defend.

Oozo.7856:

Nuked.2360:

Oozo.7856:

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it.

People who take undefended keeps and towers are not accomplishing the same task as someone taking a defended keep or tower.

Impossible to tell who truly has numbers where because each night it varies.

Do you think it’s impossible for Anet to tell?

Sorry I should have said impossible to adjust because the number’s change nightly. It’s evident in every match people stay up later some nights or some people have varying shifts so they are on at different hours. End of the day it has too many variables for one and two you are saying people who put in effort daily aren’t going to be rewarded because the opposing side isn’t coming to play (also keep in mind that will entice less players to play even if it is their primetime).

Nuked.2360:

…you would be basically saying anyone who plays SEA/Oceanic primes (which makes up a fair few players would be less valuable than American players which isn’t a good precedence).

I’d like to think it would encourage off-peak players to spread out amongst the servers in search of competitive gameplay. If you have 100 Oceanic players on a server vs. 10 guys who work second shift in the US then you have a lopsided battlefield and should be rewarded less for controlling it. If 45 of those Oceanic players transfer to the other server the points for controlling the battlefield go up to normal values and we have a better game.

Robot Chocken.7012:

This post amazes me considering that Kaineng has one of the best Oceanic powers in all of WvW. So yeah I would have to say that is a bad idea lol. It would be taking from your server to make Oceanic time count for less.

They would only count for less if they aren’t up against an equal Oceanic population. So, if the Oceanic people want their efforts to count for more they would have to move off of servers fighting other servers with no Oceanic population and move to servers fighting other servers with a good Oceanic population thus providing better balance in coverage across all of the servers.

That is what should have been done to begin with.

Nuked.2360:

End of the day it has too many variables…

There are only three variables…population of server 1, population of server 2 and population of server 3. Timeweight the averages, build up historical data to smooth out the spikes and you’re done.

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

How about a twist? Scale the points based on the amount of people in WvW on the other servers. This way points collected by bigger numbers with little opposition at prime time will not count very much.

Nuked.2360:

Oozo.7856:

Nuked.2360:

Oozo.7856:

Linkisdead.9647:

We both accomplish the same task, yet you get rewarded more for it.

People who take undefended keeps and towers are not accomplishing the same task as someone taking a defended keep or tower.

Impossible to tell who truly has numbers where because each night it varies.

Do you think it’s impossible for Anet to tell?

Sorry I should have said impossible to adjust because the number’s change nightly. It’s evident in every match people stay up later some nights or some people have varying shifts so they are on at different hours. End of the day it has too many variables for one and two you are saying people who put in effort daily aren’t going to be rewarded because the opposing side isn’t coming to play (also keep in mind that will entice less players to play even if it is their primetime).

I’m thinking that Anet could have code that crunches the population numbers and automatically adjusts the scores when points are tallied.

Ikarushka.9564:

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

How about a twist? Scale the points based on the amount of people in WvW on the other servers. This way points collected by bigger numbers with little opposition at prime time will not count very much.

That’s what he means by “relative”

Mogar.9216:

If you live cross the ocean you should play on Euro servers.

Why wasn’t this genius behind us when we asked for an oceanic server and ANet said no (well technically they said ’we’ll look into it’).

Maladon.5760:

Nuked.2360:

…you would be basically saying anyone who plays SEA/Oceanic primes (which makes up a fair few players would be less valuable than American players which isn’t a good precedence).

I’d like to think it would encourage off-peak players to spread out amongst the servers in search of competitive gameplay. If you have 100 Oceanic players on a server vs. 10 guys who work second shift in the US then you have a lopsided battlefield and should be rewarded less for controlling it. If 45 of those Oceanic players transfer to the other server the points for controlling the battlefield go up to normal values and we have a better game.

Bingo. Since you can’t force coverage balance in a heavy-handed fashion you have to compel people to balance it themselves via the scoring system.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

A simpler solution that’s more fair to everyone would be for points per tick to be worth progressively less for continuous control.

Ex: you take a tower, during the first hour each tick gives you 10 points. If you still hold it then the next hour each tick only gives you 8 points. 3rd hour ticks give 5, after 4 hours of uninterrupted control the tower no longer gives points.

This means you don’t keep earning points during empty periods yet no timezone is penalized.

That is not an solution
you need few hours to upgrade an keep /tower to full
That way you could let it undefended and wait with 100 ppls behind tower to take it back after 5 minutes you lose it

Maladon.5760:

Ikarushka.9564:

Oozo.7856:

Solution: Scale the points by the relative populations that are on at the moment.

To keep people from abusing that by logging out right before a point calculation you keep the point calculation timer hidden to the players and add an element of randomness to when it is totalled.

How about a twist? Scale the points based on the amount of people in WvW on the other servers. This way points collected by bigger numbers with little opposition at prime time will not count very much.

That’s what he means by “relative”

Relative could mean relative overall populations between the three servers.

I see your point though, and like the idea

Pinko.2076:

Wouldn’t this make the stale tiers even more stale with artificially closer score to go along with ultra deadlocking math??

One man’s “stale” is another man’s “competitive”.

Closer matches with results tied more directly to actual performance rather than coverage seems like a desired outcome.

Maladon.5760:

If they play against fewer people it stands to reason their efforts shouldn’t count as much.

This is a valid point but tbh you should make your own thread and make these kind of points clearer.

Posting in this thread were it’s obvious people have little knowledge of what’s outside of their own country (city?) makes valid points get caught up in…. hmmmm how should say….. less insightful comments…..

Rayya.2591:

That is not an solution
you need few hours to upgrade an keep /tower to full
That way you could let it undefended and wait with 100 ppls behind tower to take it back after 5 minutes you lose it

Somehow I doubt the meta will evolve to having 100 players sitting idle waiting for a tower to get taken over just so they could flip it back. Wouldn’t the opposition see them and simply not take the tower?

also, even if you aren’t gaining points for holding that tower after X hours.. your investments of time/supply/upgrades into its defense aren’t pointless.. you’re still preventing the other teams from scoring with that tower.

For argument sake lets say they did this, now who’s prime time ? The west coast or east coast ?

This is just a terrible idea with flaws all over the place.

Nuzt.7894:

For argument sake lets say they did this, now who’s prime time ? The west coast or east coast ?

This is just a terrible idea with flaws all over the place.

You don’t adjust the points according to some fixed time zone scheme. You adjust the points based on the relative populations (with some normalizing factors) whenever points are tallied.

Mogar.9216:

Linkisdead.9647:

Laughable thread.

I work more than 40 hours a week, have a full course load in college, and living with my girlfriend, chances are I’m busy at peak hours.

I’m sorry my life doesn’t revolve around videogames and that I have to actually feel sunlight on my skin.

It’s amazing that you want to punish people that have things to do, I won’t even begin to address the obvious silliness of punishing those outside of the US.

Just because you don’t play at those hours does not mean that a whole lot of us do. Stop being so self centered.

What time you play is your business. Fact is if you chose to play at a time when there are no one defending any keep taking efforts your effort whatever it was should not count as much as 50+ people’s effort who took that keep in prime time. Why should you be rewarded dis-proportionally just because you play when no one else is around? Funny how you people calling me self centered when you are the ones who want the system work in your favor at everyone else and game’s expense.

So people who play later then you should be punished because everyone doesn’t play when they want them to … basically what you just said. Your time is more important, I beg to differ, its not our fault others don’t play during off hours … maybe we should punish prime time for not playing off hours. More or less what your suggesting, and I bet you can see how stupid that sounds.

Sorry Oozo, as someone who plays off hours and lives in NA, there is no way in hell your going to post anything to convince me that this suggestion is anything but stupid. If he doesn’t like people playing off hours maybe he should adjust his schedule to defend the off hours.

I get what your saying but population but, its quite clear by transfer prices that they cannot gauge WvW population vs. server population in any shape or form.

Just leave it as is.

There is this thing called risk versus reward. It’s been one of the main drivers in game balance since, I don’t know… forever.