Guild Wars 2

wut?

Ele:
Jack of all Trades!!!! Whoever plays staff on ele didn’t quite get it. Dagger/Dagger can do almost anything any spec and any class can do … only better.

Warrior:
Banners, Banners, Banners, … Did I mention Banners?
Also siege crew(Hard to kill, can throw out banners beforehand, …)
Crowd control
Main tank, damage dealer

Guardian:
Group buffs, main tank(with AH, you can do both at the same time)
Area control(Hallowed Ground, all the countless walls, etc.) Especially with a hammer.
Projectile block

Necromancer:
Area control!!!
Crowd control
Boon and Condition management

Mesmer:
Mass Haste!
Transportation service
Boon and Condition management
Projectile block

Thief:
Hit and run
Hit and run
Hit and run
and run without hitting(scout duty)

Engineer:
Long range crowd control
Damage dealer

Ranger:
Alt+f4 and login with another class

Lmao love the skit on ranger Naphack, May i point out, Thief can block Trebs/catas with Smoke Screen, I believe Engineers have an ability to block projectiles as well, can’t think of it right now. and the Mesmers Time Warp ability you are referring to as “Mass Haste” only buffs 5 Targets. Player tested.. Anet approved.

Isaac.6041:

Elementalist:
-Use Swirling Winds to defend trebuchets and catapults
-Use AOE (Staff skills/Glyph of Storms) to destroy siege equipment on walls.
-Some healing abilities

And all this time I thought I could kill people. kitten

You may as well be playing two different classes when you compare Staff Ele to DnD Ele.

Staff Ele can not beat anyone 1v1 but it has amazing utility in ZvZ/siege combat. Meanwhile DnD Ele is formidable versus any class 1v1 but absolutely sucks for tower siege as it has no ranged abilities at all.

Naphacks list is a littler better.

I recently found out the real use of a guardian. Me and 9 other guys we’re raiding supply camp while we were cornered in the mines above Durios ( I forgot the name ). We built some siege there and kept them out of the tunnels. Slowly half the server was gathering to wipe us out and we stood tall.

The secret? 3 ballistea
2 staff guardians both with Wall of Reflection
And a hell of a commander.

We eventually lost because of some mistakes on our part. Like trying to res an already dead player a little bit too close to enemy lines.

My point in case is, Wall of Reflection. Best kitten skill EVER!

Both lists are silly.
It all depend on how you build and what role you want to play.
Class choice is only the first step.

Is ranger really that useless? ò.ò
I love playing with my ranger and I don’t really feels so useless when some little chickens get stucked by my traps and they stay still like some big shooting targets.. But I’m not really a veteran in www so I’d like to know more of your opinion. Ty

ankdarkwolf.1487:

Is ranger really that useless? ò.ò
I love playing with my ranger and I don’t really feels so useless when some little chickens get stucked by my traps and they stay still like some big shooting targets.. But I’m not really a veteran in www so I’d like to know more of your opinion. Ty

The reality is that a good ranger can be as valuable as a good guardian. It’s just that they need to be marginally more better. It’s a matter of numbers really, and some design issue’s like pets and weaponskills. Rangers do many things. But other classes can do all of those things much better then a ranger. Anet even said so themselves.

Point is, Ranger is still a viable class, just expect to put in a bit more effort until you got your love from Anet.

ankdarkwolf.1487:

Is ranger really that useless? ò.ò
I love playing with my ranger and I don’t really feels so useless when some little chickens get stucked by my traps and they stay still like some big shooting targets.. But I’m not really a veteran in www so I’d like to know more of your opinion. Ty

The problem with rangers isn’t so much that they’re useless. You can do fine with them. It’s that they’re outperformed by other classes.

Defending atop walls? Rifle Warrior will do it much better.
Attacking a tower/keep/anything with a gate, and throwing traps up walls? Staff Ele will do it much better.

The only real nice thing they bring to the table is healing spring with its AoE condition cleansing, in addition to regeneration and water field, but it’s hardly enough to justify bringing the class to the battlefield.

Yup, rangers are completly worthless, always when i see one regardless class i am playing (currently have only 80war, 80 thi , 80 mes and poor 41 rannger – abandoned), it is easy kill :P ranger was my first toon and it is quite good pve (double bear tank). Problem is wvw/spvp/tpvp it is rubish. I was expecting big buffs for that class but nothing so far:/ They deserve really major update. All other classes have their own use, but if you ask me, i would create group of only thieves:D It’s awesome when playing in group if skilled thieves-3-6.

Mjk.7562:

Yup, rangers are completly worthless, always when i see one regardless class i am playing (currently have only 80war, 80 thi , 80 mes and poor 41 rannger – abandoned), it is easy kill :P

Currently I don’t have big problems in 1vs1 nor 1vs2 , I surely don’t destroy my enemy like a fury, but I feel quite equal to my opponent. Probably it depends on the fact I haven’t found true skilled players yet..

By the way I understand what you’re saying. Uhm, I was thinking to level up a thief and a mesmer to understand a little more their gameplay and skills so I’ll give them a good try (recently in www I find tons of thieves and mesmers -.-" personally I think this is a little boring).

Ele – zerg
Guardian – Zerg
Warrior – 5 man or solo
Thief – Solo
Mesmer – zerg
Engineer – 5 man
Ranger – zerg
Necro – zerg (not sure where necro fits)

Guardians can do a bit.

During a “push” a guardian works very well to finish off those who have been downed near the enemy lines, since they can tank a bit even against big numbers. Use your survival skills afterwards and you should be able to get back behind your own group, regenerate all your health and get back in action again.

Reflection obviously works in certain situations such as a large group aimlessly shooting projectiles at a gate or a combo of a line/ring of warding and wall of reflection so you can go to work on rams and the people who are trying to melee a gate without outside interruptions from the people standing at range.

Even the Tome of Wrath despite its short usage can work in a concentrated effort to quickly take siege by granting quickness and spamming the attack skill.

Mjk.7562:

Yup, rangers are completly worthless, always when i see one regardless class i am playing (currently have only 80war, 80 thi , 80 mes and poor 41 rannger – abandoned), it is easy kill :P ranger was my first toon and it is quite good pve (double bear tank). Problem is wvw/spvp/tpvp it is rubish. I was expecting big buffs for that class but nothing so far:/ They deserve really major update. All other classes have their own use, but if you ask me, i would create group of only thieves:D It’s awesome when playing in group if skilled thieves-3-6.

WvW is bullkitten. I want to play without a Staff with my element. But is complete impossible, staff is much better than the other weapons.

what are you talking about?
The single most broken character in this game is a dagger/dagger ele with tank spec.

Xsorus.2507:

Mjk.7562:

Yup, rangers are completly worthless, always when i see one regardless class i am playing (currently have only 80war, 80 thi , 80 mes and poor 41 rannger – abandoned), it is easy kill :P ranger was my first toon and it is quite good pve (double bear tank). Problem is wvw/spvp/tpvp it is rubish. I was expecting big buffs for that class but nothing so far:/ They deserve really major update. All other classes have their own use, but if you ask me, i would create group of only thieves:D It’s awesome when playing in group if skilled thieves-3-6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBv96A4jbIE

So you are sayin all rangers that aren’t Asura should just reroll, Granted this guys is pretty skilled but, Pain inverter is his ace in the hole.

Don’t get me wrong, I have an 80 ranger. Love ranger type classes… but in this game, my Ranger will be collecting dust, sadly, till changes(not some crappy under water damage buff changes) are made.
Edit: Sorry for being off topic.

You can and should change weapon bars and utilities between every fight so… Every class is every role.

Whoops I didn’t see this thread when I made mine.

i never get why people would want to play a D/D ele in a massive 20-30+ vs 20-30+ combat with high possibility of choke points, walls, gate, etc etc. i understand d/d ele has plenty of closing skill along with escaping skills while containing some quite abit of aoe. but why would u go tank D/D when u can get higher dmg on a staff ele while simply stay out of range and aoe everything?.

tunnels/bridges/gate entrance/staircases → staff 1.2k range aoe spam the hell out of it. if enemy want to zerg through, people are going to die. no need to ever stop spamming. D/D ele charge in, combo off, get out. wait for cd, go back in. u have down time and lower overall dmg output over time.
walls→ staff once again 1.2k range slightly increased by height on wall. or if seiging the wall, actually able to hit defenders along with aoes. D/D yea… hit the gate?….
open field→ staff maintain long range ability to snipe at targets and ability to deny certain areas by forcing enemy to move with aoe. D/D charge in crowd, aoe combo, possibility of dropping the crowd.
small roaming squad→ depending on # higher the better a staff ele can provide the support and aoe field for the squad. D/D ele provides a much better small 1vX combat potential, small # the better.

there are places where D/D ele shines but i think most of the time in WvW ull prefer the range and aoe potential of a staff.

naphack cannot just be serious…
Its so clear he use a thief or a ranger….

Thief in wvwvw is just lame….permastealth can keep busy large grups for a lot of time contesting things…

Its quite obvious in WvW that a DD ele has lot of problems being stuck in short range.
How you are supposed to face zergs?
How can you defend from walls?
How can you kill siege machines?

Its so obvious….

DD ele is fast thus is good to take supplies (mesmer is obviusly better) or defend key points from small groups (not alone….of course).

Also ranger is so valuable in wvwvw against siege weapons….and defenders on the walls
Its not tpvp its wvwvw.

on my healing warrior, I often sit next to offensive seige with my hammer waiting for inevitable thieves, shout heal at gates and lead the vanguard, tank npc’s whenever possible, support and protect

My main is a Ranger and I spend most of my time in WvW. It is definitely not a useless class, in fact it has some abilities which are extremely important, even vital, and I’m surprised they are being overlooked here – so much so that I hesitate to mention them.

That said, a few of them are:

-Trapping entry points, using traps as alarms (due to a ‘bug’, detection range is far)
-Speed-building siege
-Strong AoE Healing (spring, spirit and pet)
-Pet Torpedoes (lots of problems with pets, but they have good tactical utility when used properly – especially against siege)
-Entangle – even though it is bugged, when used well this is a game changer
-Self-Revive – being able to self-revive via Lick Wounds also has great tactical value, when used properly

The 1500 Range option, for both single target and AoE, is also very useful – though damage is not what it could be. Ranger is definitely a niche class – if you’re playing one and not finding yourself of value in WvW, then a build or playstyle change might be warranted.

Glad to hear that Anthrage I tried a 80lv thief (no glass-cannon-always-stealth-build I don’t like that type of build .-.) and take it to wvw.. I have to say I felt really useless there, well, I know thief are good in wvw but seeing how I like to play I didn’t like it. The good thing I see is a really different damage and a good moving/dancing/soloing ability.

I returned back on my ranger and I felt more at ease. So, yes, even if ranger is said to be the worst wvw class I find it really useful in different aspects.

Uhm, Anthrage I’m always eager to know more and I’m trying different builds and skills set. I have a big problem on Lick Wounds (my pet stands still on me without doing anything .-. and it’s a big target for the enemies instead) for example, and would you like to explain me your point about “Pet Torpedoes – especially against siege” (pm if you prefer).

Thank you all for starting and commenting this thread, it’s really interesting

ankdarkwolf.1487:

So, yes, even if ranger is said to be the worst wvw class I find it really useful in different aspects.

Everyone is useful in WvW. A lvl2 can be useful and run supplies. But there’s a reason why Ranger is considered so weak.

Your skill level is not yet at the point where you can recognize game changers, so just pick profession you like the most.

Let me show you what I mean by quoting his post:

-Trapping entry points, using traps as alarms (due to a ‘bug’, detection range is far)
-Speed-building siege
-Strong AoE Healing (spring, spirit and pet)
-Pet Torpedoes (lots of problems with pets, but they have good tactical utility when used properly – especially against siege)
-Entangle – even though it is bugged, when used well this is a game changer
-Self-Revive – being able to self-revive via Lick Wounds also has great tactical value, when used properly

None of these are game changers. Here’s what these things do:

• Speed building siege does nothing. The main limitation of siege is supply, not speed it’s built. Nor can you build siege by yourself, so you still need to wait for other people to finish building siege.

• Never tried using traps as alarms but most players in WvW have a route, a mission, and stick to it. If you’re sieging Tower X you’re not going to run back to camp at the far south of the map just because enemy is coming there. It’s not your mission anymore to defend it. You can’t even use traps on ambush points to backstab enemy solo players passing through. This is because Ranger is horrible, horrible profession for roaming in WvW. I really can’t think of a single usage of this. Even if I stayed close and wanted to defend some area, why would I use Ranger for that, possibly the worst class for defending?

• Pet Torpedoes. Don’t know what this is, and don’t know how a pet can possibly survive longer than few sec. Or even reach enemy siege.

• Entangle. The range of this thing as well as affecting only one person (AFAIK) make this useless in most cases. It’s a horrible elite, and I really like the idea behind it. Correct me if I’m wrong but Sylvari racial creates AoE vines. Also, not sure how this is game changer, as entangle is destroyed almost instantly by just one person. In WvW normal situation you won’t be in range of it, and when you will it will die to random AoE.

• Self-Revive has no tactical use whatsoever. Range downed state is vastly inferior to just about any downed state im familiar with (Memser, Thief, Ele, Guardian, Necro..). The only time Ranger Self-Revive will save you is when no enemy is near you. In which case this would not matter at all. Personally, I think many of the ranger stuff only seem great to those who only play Ranger.

Ianervan.3415:

Your skill level is not yet at the point where you can recognize game changers…

You have no idea what you are talking about. You may want to consider that before questioning others…example:

“Speed building siege does nothing. The main limitation of siege is supply, not speed it’s built. Nor can you build siege by yourself, so you still need to wait for other people to finish building siege.”

There are several situations where being able to build siege quickly is extremely important. Since you obviously cannot think of any, I will describe a few:

-On an offensive push into SM’s Lord Room
-In a flanking position at close range of the enemy position to take out their siege
-Any circumstance where completing siege builds in 5 seconds and not 50 is vital…

A practical example. Treb on SM’s upper walls is hitting Towers at extreme range. Your trebs breach outer walls…you take a group of 3 rangers in, get up onto the outer walls of SM in range of the Treb above, speed build a ballista, take it down. This happened last night…getting that treb down, while in combat mind you, changed the whole dynamic.

A siege build has a HUGE profile on the battlefield, it’s a ‘come kill me’ sign…reducing or effectively eliminating the time that sign is visible is indeed a considerable advantage. Just because you can’t think of something doesn’t dismiss it..

“Never tried using traps as alarms…. I really can’t think of a single usage of this”

Again, you cannot think of something is useful or possible, so you take it upon yourself dismiss it outright, to someone else. Amazing.

There are many situations where you or your force will be operating in an area with limited access points, where early warning of entry by the enemy into that area will be not only valuable, but vital. Example – there are various spots in WvW, mesas or other elevated treb positions, that will be set up to fire on an asset. Trapping the chokepoint entry to that area means you will have advance warning to a move on your position. This works for any fixed position defense with restricted access points – siege positions, supply camps, even the jumping puzzle. We’ve intercepted more than one mesmer bomb using this method – it absolutely has value on the field.

“Pet Torpedoes. Don’t know what this is, and don’t know how a pet can possibly survive longer than few sec…”

“Entangle. The range of this thing as well as affecting only one person (AFAIK) make this useless in most cases. It’s a horrible elite, and I really like the idea behind it. Correct me if I’m wrong but Sylvari racial creates AoE vines…”

These two self-admissions of ignorance pretty much make clear that you have no idea what you are talking about, and I have no idea why you are dismissing the statements of someone who does when you yourself know that you do not…

Pets, can be ‘equipped’ with invisibility, invulnerability, or both…with increased health, toughness, damage absorption…you name it. They can area of effect daze, stun, fear etc, and despite their many admitted issues, can be sent into a cluster of enemies from a reasonably safe distance to deliver whatever package you’ve selected. Having the pet be the first point of contact to a cluster is very useful when rushing a stack.

As for siege, when you are a small force faced with fixed position siege – ballista in Pangloss for example – the ‘pet torpedo’ is very useful. A single player can disarm a siege engine using this method, allowing one to close to the target without getting chewed up on the way. Most people ignore pets, being of the opinion that they suck and are useless…and in many ways they do suck…but a fear, or daze, works just as well whether it was delivered by a pet or a player.

Just because you don’t see the value in something does not mean it does not have value. Especially when you are ignorant of the mechanics (Entangle is not single target, and the Sylvari racial is not an AoE)…there is a big difference between opinion and fact.

Rangers have the longest water field in the game (possibly the longest combo field period) which also happens to be the best combo field in the game for WvW coupled with Thieves, Warriors, and Elementalists (Lightning Hammer) who can blast field it, it can heal 5 allies for well over 30khp in the amount of time it’s up.

Longbow is fairly useless except for Barrage, and even then Barrage is outclassed by other AoE (Engineer grenade spam, Elementalist Meteor Shower). I personally run a tanky spec and using the Greatsword (and Shortbow) and play as a pusher/tank. Yes, a Warrior can do this better while doing more damage, but you might as well take advantage of the Rangers invuln, 30 seconds of stability, massive HP regen and healing, most quickness of any profession as well as an evade on every 3rd attack of the Greatsword.

Rangers also have the most quickness in the game, which is handy for quickly ressing an ally (coupled with stability and invulnerability from 30 marksmanship + signet of stone this essentially gives Rangers an easy way to res an ally).

Entangle is good, but if people know how to quickly get out of it, it can wind up being our worst elite. It’s absolutely destroys people who don’t realize the multiple ways of dealing with it. A cleanse and a quick dodge or simply 3k damage on the roots (which many professions can do in a single attack) renders this elite useless. It also sometimes fails on targets moving quickly and can be negated completely with a blind.

While traps are good for spotting thieves for sure I feel they are a bit of a waste of a utility slot as they serve very little purpose in combat as the Ranger has MUCH better utilities (also stop wasting slots on Signet of the Hunt, it’s freaking terrible).

So the two main things Rangers are better at in WvW than other professions is combo healing (Healing Spring + Blasts from other professions) and quick and safe ressing. Yes, we could use some serious buffs (our damage is the lowest of any profession right now) and you are better off rolling a Warrior or another profession for WvW, but completely useless? Not true.

LordByron.8369:

naphack cannot just be serious…
Its so clear he use a thief or a ranger….

Thief in wvwvw is just lame….permastealth can keep busy large grups for a lot of time contesting things…

Its quite obvious in WvW that a DD ele has lot of problems being stuck in short range.
How you are supposed to face zergs?
How can you defend from walls?
How can you kill siege machines?

Its so obvious….

DD ele is fast thus is good to take supplies (mesmer is obviusly better) or defend key points from small groups (not alone….of course).

Also ranger is so valuable in wvwvw against siege weapons….and defenders on the walls
Its not tpvp its wvwvw.

What are you talking about?
In an open battle, a D/D ele is way better than a staff ele.
The only thing staff ele is better is shooting up or down walls. Anything else?
Zerg vs Zerg? Storming/Defending the Lord’s room in SM, …?
Daggers are waaaaay better there. Yes. It’s true, I haven’t had a high lev Ele so far… Playing mostly Guardian.
But just look at how these huge clusterkittens work.
Thete’s 2 kinds of players who run risk of being fragged early.
1) “Heavy Duty” front liners, mainly Guardians and Warriors
2) “Back Row” guys who hang around far in the back and bombard the area with spells.
The safest spot to be in is the “skirmisher” who keeps jumping across the battlefield, creating advantage in numbers at small sections of the field to finish off opponents one by one. They are hard to track. And staff users are one of their most favourite meal.

You do not win Zerg vs Zerg battles by dealing a lot of damage. You win by stacking up small victories one by one while avoiding death. A dd ele does exactly that. A situation somewhere on the battlefield is 2v1? Jump in, make it 3v1, kill the kittener. Rinse, repeat.
The problem with ele is not that he’s too strong. On the contrary, if geared correctly, he’s fairly average. In EVERYTHING.
Ele just doesn’t have any weaknesses anymore at full equip. If ele has weaknesses, then it’s:
-Out of any class, depends the most on having good gear
-Only class in the game where most racial elite skills are stronger than the class elites.

Finally, let me tell you one thing:
A staff ele reacts to the battlefield.
A d/d ele shapes the battlefield.
That’s also the reason why everyone cries about thieves(aside from invis solo play). The ability to create advantages in numbers at small sections of the battlefield is invaluable.

And about wall battles: You can always carry a staff with you…

Warriors have great mobility and are really good with any weapons. I have many weapons set and I switch a lot to adjust to any situations. Sword/shield is my main set. Then I use a gun for ground lvl fighting, bow to defend or attack keep, axe/mace combo for my offensive close combat set and sometime I use a greatsword simply for fun. We are pretty decent combat rezzer and if you manage your survivability I often surprise myself on how you can soak damage.

A warrior with a longbow can cause a lot of damage and chaos when he is defending a castle, I tried really hard to use the riffle in that situation and I just can’t seem to be able to do better than with a bow.

The goal is to carefully manage your adrenaline. If you use the rage you gain normally with the full bar you get from using healing surge you can pretty much spam combustive shot. Usually I shoot first combustive shot, root one target, explosive shoot, healing surge and second combustive shoot. That usually is enough to damage the siege weapon at the door quite a little bit and It usually spread or weaken the players at the door.

If rangers are so useless as someone said. Why do I freaking see so many of them.

If a guardian can’t lead a charge then we are playing a different game. This is almost purely what I do in WvW. I run the altruistic healing build with full knight gear. I hit like a truck and am pretty much impossible to kill. I charge the front line and push to their rear ranged players and make them panic/flee effectively taking 10+ people out of the fight while the group behind me mops up.

Kromsin.6359:

If rangers are so useless as someone said. Why do I freaking see so many of them.

Rangers are a bomb in PvE. Of course theres a lot of them around and quite a bunch of them just go to WvWvW.
That’s also the reason, it’s so hard to buff rangers for wvwvw. If you straight out buff them, their efficiency in PvE will skyrocket even more.
Also, 40% of the Rangers, you encounter in the wilderness are bots :>

Isaac.6041:

Thank you for pointing out more ranger strengths in WvW. I forgot to mention Entangle in my initial post but yes it is very useful (when it works). It’s great for hitting supply camp npcs.

Ranger does have a lot of quickness and quick-revive and quick-siege build does make Ranger sound very useful in the battlefield.

Now about longbows, can’t they hit things that meteor shower can’t because of the increased range trait? Anyone know?

Very rarely due to the way AoE on Keeps work, increased ranged doesn’t matter as much as AoE radius. It can hit more than the Engineer grenades due to have an increased AoE radius.

lol at everyone hating on Rangers, you all are so ignorant to how good they can be. Yes they aren’t the uber leet op class that thieves are, but that is a whole diferent topic.

I played Ele for a long time and got extremely bored of it. Bringing Dag/Dag ele to WvW makes you a chump like the people in GW1 wanting to 1v1 in Guild Halls. Same goes for thieves.

My ranger can do 2 things, help push zergs back with large barrage and target damage with Rapid Fire. yes you have to actually pay attention to the enemy and target the ones that are threats.

Then when battles get tight i can roflpwn with sword/horn combo with on command quickness and several stacks of fury and might.

Yes we are squishy, but guess what there is always a waypoint somewhere. If you are afraid to die you are doing it completely wrong!

Oh and i almost forgot, that 2.5 secs of fear also comes in handy!

I have never seen rangers on www. You only fight bears, spiders, moas, etc xDDD

(ok no)

in an thief’s oppinion:
look guardian – leave it, might be bunker
look ele – stay away- he kill you
look eng – he might imobilize you and bomb you to death
look an warrior -run
i see an mesmer – he can kill me
there is an necro – they counter me
finaly an ranger – free kill