Guild Wars 2

Offair.2563:

Blix.8021:

My reasonable argument is l2p. Learn better arrow cart positioning, learn where to place defensive trebs, have people willing to scout and defend. If you and your opponents both have map queues, and you lose a tower to pvd, it’s your fault, especially on a reset night like you said.

you can have all siege in the world but a 70+ blob simply ignores that and pvd a reinforced gate down in like 2min ish, but guess your one of the doorhuggers that dont want this to stop, saying l2p isnt really constructive either

If your server can’t respond to the threat in two minutes (longer if you do delay them with siege) then the problem isn’t the door.

One of the things I wonder is, if the citadel, keeps, and towers all have these magical gates which are impenetrable to enemy forces, why would they even have wooden gates????

Also, why wouldn’t there be a back door into garrison with one of these magical portals? A hidden or certainly well guarded passage would make sense.

VOLKON.1290:

[…]If your server can’t respond to the threat in two minutes (longer if you do delay them with siege) then the problem isn’t the door.

If you have blobs from two different servers sharing your borderland, and if the queue is longer than 20 minutes (much longer in fact), it is hard to respond in time. You just do not have enough people to handle all rising clashes. But the worst thing is that no defense is going last long enough for your reinforcements to arrive.

So we just left the gates barely repaired, warped out and and blobbed… then looted the bags from blobs. That’s all. Lots of loot, but no real fun (monthly done in 10 minutes or so). No tactics, no actual challenge.
Correction: We had been chasing 50+ people blobs with fewer than twenty men group. So we barely qualified as blob.

Regards,
Ruemere

You’re telling someone from JQ how hard it is to deal with queues and map blobs? lol.

Please stay on topic guys.

As long as the defenders outsmart the attackers by countering any siege, no reinforcements should ever be needed to show up. You are supposed to be safe inside your tower!

Only when the attackers find high ground, or countered your siege before you could react, ONLY THEN should reinforcement come to wipe them.

Why have supply in the game in the first place if there is absolutely no need to use it?
Player vs Door has to go!

Memphisjz.1405:

Please stay on topic guys.

As long as the defenders outsmart the attackers by countering any siege, no reinforcements should ever be needed to show up. You are supposed to be safe inside your tower!

Only when the attackers find high ground, or countered your siege before you could react, ONLY THEN should reinforcement come to wipe them.

Why have supply in the game in the first place if there is absolutely no need to use it?
Player vs Door has to go!

I agree 100%.

A well defended and upgraded tower should put the attackers in a vulnerable position. They should have a really hard time. I also think that the entire keep/tower etc should be a capture point. So that if there are still players inside or on the walls they would need to be killed before they could cap.

CYB.9012:

Actually this is the invalid argument:
“Defending SHOULD be easy with a 5 man team.”

Against a 50 man raid? Why? Because you put alot of effort in upgrading it?

…..

I’m not pro PvD and I don’t really care about it, I countered many such attemps with well positioned ACs, trebs or catas and player AoE. I dont agree on that 5 vs. 50 should be in favor of the defender.
50 vs 50 is in the favor of the defender.

…….

So take out PvD to win what?

- Because a Zerg of 50 is actually a lot more usual than a group of 5 defending a keep? You’re suggesting that it would require 50(!) defenders to defeat such a Zerg – That’s insanity! It’s hard enough to have a tenth of that at the time of the attack. They’re attacking a bloody fortress! It shouldn’t be something you just run towards head first.

- Tagging a keep by barely scratching it with a knife is ludicrous. If you manage to actually hold such a waypoint, then you should be able to use it without having it being disabled that easily.

CYB.9012:

Memphisjz.1405:

CYB, your argument is invalid

I (almost) never lose my trebuchets of my tower and always
- drain the blobs supply
- shoot down all their siege

But guess what? Then they just melt the gate by force.
pretty much every tower i had sieged up and defended was lost to attackers that did not use (or lost their) offensive siege.

Hule.8794:

Taking down fortified wall with 2 trebs takes more time than PvD reinforced gate with 30 man group.

This. so much. And that is just wrong.
Taking down the wall should be slow. but PvD should be impossible.

Actually this is the invalid argument:
“Defending SHOULD be easy with a 5 man team.”

Against a 50 man raid? Why? Because you put alot of effort in upgrading it?

Taking out PvD will make defense easier? Blobs will ninja your tower just as fast and there will be nothing you can do about it if you don’t have numbers / help to call.

“Like Memphisjz said if the defenders kill the enemy siege then the defenders should win, because the enemy should resupply and build new siege to get in the tower/keep. "

Win what? A few minutes more?

I’m not pro PvD and I don’t really care about it, I countered many such attemps with well positioned ACs, trebs or catas and player AoE. I dont agree on that 5 vs. 50 should be in favor of the defender.
50 vs 50 is in the favor of the defender.

Are you talking about “bad game design” or unbalanced fights?

I don’t expect to keep a tower for more than a few minutes if 50 people are attacking and we are 5 inside with no reinforcements.

So take out PvD to win what?

well take out PvD so the blob needs some tactic and usage of their supply to build counter siege with to clear inside defensive siege, then itsa legit way to get a tower with 50people and i dont ahve any problem with that

but but facerubbing your way to get in gets old really fast and has to stop, whats the use of supplies anyway if you dont need to use em?

style.6173:

Huh? Defense in this game is already really easy. A group of 5 defenders with smart siege placement can hold of a zerg for a long time.

It sounds to me like you just need to team up with some people who are more experienced at WvW that you are.

A group of experienced defenders with smart siege placement can hold off an inexperienced zerg with poor siege placement for a long time, sure. Not so long if the attackers have smart siege placement. Even in t1 there are commanders who have numerical advantage in forces, but give up if they can’t just ram down a door because they’re too lazy/incompetent to kill defensive siege. They’d rather karma train a wooden tower somewhere else if they meet any resistance.

PvD is a terrible mechanic, the only people who want it are easymode karma trainers. If PvD stays, we need a perma retaliation buff upgrade on the door, at least.

I don’t see that perma retalation buff on the door is really necessary…
The problem is really easy to PVD because doesn’t cost any supplies and is faster to do it… This shouldn’t happen… (Siege is no longer required for capturing on WvW)
The fun in WvW is not only to kill and capture but to outsmart enemies with war-field and siege tactics.

I really believe that removing PVD will make WvW more changeling place, as it should be!

I dont think doors should be changed… it is a fact if 40-50 people decide to break a door they will do it… the problem is that it is not worthy defending. If you have 2 or 3 arrowcarts and some few people you can scatter then and force then to use siege to break the gate faster and safely, but people just dont care about defense.

Another issue, maybe if the towers had more than one entrance as keeps and castles it would be easier for people to get in and defend… today if a zerg stops by infront of the tower it gets really hard to enter it and defend, so all the siege you built inside is uselless unless someone decides to stay inside a tower forever… and it is very boring.

One crazy idea I had right now, maybe the guards could use the siege we build, the tower could defend itself even with no players, we just have to build the sieges, it would help a lot and give us time to get to the tower and wipe the zerg.

albotelho.2931:

One crazy idea I had right now, maybe the guards could use the siege we build, the tower could defend itself even with no players, we just have to build the sieges, it would help a lot and give us time to get to the tower and wipe the zerg.

That would actually be awesome. But using the Guards would be a pain to implement, pathfinding and all. It should be more like automated defenses but then it would be on predetermend locations and then we would not like that placement.

WoVic.3257:

albotelho.2931:

One crazy idea I had right now, maybe the guards could use the siege we build, the tower could defend itself even with no players, we just have to build the sieges, it would help a lot and give us time to get to the tower and wipe the zerg.

That would actually be awesome. But using the Guards would be a pain to implement, pathfinding and all. It should be more like automated defenses but then it would be on predetermend locations and then we would not like that placement.

Yeah… I am a programmer too and I know it is possible to do with AI algorithms but not an easy task for sure.