PvP balance not being migrated to WvW
There is no Mercenary PVP amulet in WvW. In fact, there are no pvp amulets in WvW. And i just can’t see how they could address that problem without completely changing the whole armor system in there.
You see, as long as it is the same as PvE system, then even if certain stats will be removed (and they’d have to be removed from PvE as well), you’d still be able to mix and match other pieces to arrive at a similar result.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
WvW is playing PvP in your PvE gear.
If you are a pure WvW-er you’ll have a bunker like setup with 2400-2800 toughness and a defensive build so you can stand up to being hit by 20-65 ppl at least for some amount of time.
if you are a PvE player chances are you swap out some zerk trinkets for some soldier or knoights and jump right in. build will be more offensive and you will need to be a biut more careful
As for WvW: there are sometimes 100 opponents to fight at 1 time, so your build isn’t focusses on killing, but rather on NOT BE KILLED.
As for PvP you want ppl to be killable in a sensible amont of time, if you’re fighting a bunker who gets no dmg at all…. no points, no caps and so on.
In wvw you just take him last and kill them with 10, 20 or 50 ppl. Nothing can withstand the zerg…. maybe he will not die for 30 stacks of conditions maybe he will from 500, maybe he can deminish 10k dps, but can he deminish 200k?
As such balance in WvW and PvE are nothing alike. I hope they do not get clotted together as it would severely impede the present status of WvW.
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
PvP balance not being migrated to WvW and we should be VERY happy about that because they are two entirely different game modes and forcing 5v5 PvP balance on WvW makes no sense. Already we have had to suffer through several idiotic changes and nerfs that originated in PvP and were forced onto the rest of us.
Stop trying to mess the entire game up just so it suits your little PvP niche please.
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Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU
Fojja – Vyxxi – Nymmra – Mymmra – Champion of Dwayna .. and more
Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU
I think I was very clear in my statement that WvW and PvP were vastly different environments. There are, however, correlations between broken mechanics in each game mode, being able to compress all of condition damages’ offensive power into a single stat leaves enough room where no sacrifices have to be made for survivability. Power builds have to make a choice between the two while condi builds can have their cake, and eat it too as it were.
My point was that they acknowledged this problem in PvP by taking that stat choice option away, but a more permanent fix is still required. I’ve seen many good suggestions already in other threads such as allowing condi’s to crit, then rebalancing damage such that condi builds will need to incorporate precision and furosity putting them more on equal terms with power builds.
At the end of the day, with no changes being made, WvW will devolve into nothing but condi cancer wars.
Am I to understand that you just hate Dire armor? That’s been around since the beginning of the game.
I think I was very clear in my statement that WvW and PvP were vastly different environments. There are, however, correlations between broken mechanics in each game mode, being able to compress all of condition damages’ offensive power into a single stat leaves enough room where no sacrifices have to be made for survivability. Power builds have to make a choice between the two while condi builds can have their cake, and eat it too as it were.
My point was that they acknowledged this problem in PvP by taking that stat choice option away, but a more permanent fix is still required. I’ve seen many good suggestions already in other threads such as allowing condi’s to crit, then rebalancing damage such that condi builds will need to incorporate precision and furosity putting them more on equal terms with power builds.
At the end of the day, with no changes being made, WvW will devolve into nothing but condi cancer wars.
Yes, solo and small group roaming condition builds might outperform power builds (not might, pretty sure most do). Large scale that is a very different picture though. Conditions get cleansed a lot faster in wvw thanks to blasting of fields all the time. There is a reason why condition duration is a lot less valuable in wvw zerg fights than it is in pve for example (by the way, this is the 2nd damage stat for condis which you ignored in your comparison).
Powerbuilds do sacrifice damage for survivability. Then again direct damage can’t be mitigated or removed by cleansing. If you’d pit 2 equal sized groups of experienced wvw players against each other, if group direct damage keeps cleansing, group condition damage will get overrun.
I do agree in that I find the disparity between condition damage with one stat and direct damage a bit in favor of condition damage. It’s no where as bad though as you paint it out to be, especially in the wvw enviroment.
I think I was very clear in my statement that WvW and PvP were vastly different environments. There are, however, correlations between broken mechanics in each game mode, being able to compress all of condition damages’ offensive power into a single stat leaves enough room where no sacrifices have to be made for survivability. Power builds have to make a choice between the two while condi builds can have their cake, and eat it too as it were.
My point was that they acknowledged this problem in PvP by taking that stat choice option away, but a more permanent fix is still required. I’ve seen many good suggestions already in other threads such as allowing condi’s to crit, then rebalancing damage such that condi builds will need to incorporate precision and furosity putting them more on equal terms with power builds.
At the end of the day, with no changes being made, WvW will devolve into nothing but condi cancer wars.
Yes, solo and small group roaming condition builds might outperform power builds (not might, pretty sure most do). Large scale that is a very different picture though. Conditions get cleansed a lot faster in wvw thanks to blasting of fields all the time. There is a reason why condition duration is a lot less valuable in wvw zerg fights than it is in pve for example (by the way, this is the 2nd damage stat for condis which you ignored in your comparison).
Powerbuilds do sacrifice damage for survivability. Then again direct damage can’t be mitigated or removed by cleansing. If you’d pit 2 equal sized groups of experienced wvw players against each other, if group direct damage keeps cleansing, group condition damage will get overrun.
I do agree in that I find the disparity between condition damage with one stat and direct damage a bit in favor of condition damage. It’s no where as bad though as you paint it out to be, especially in the wvw enviroment.
I think, historically, you are correct but lately there has been a dramatic shift towards conditions even at larger scales. I’m hearing a lot more “oh don’t fight those guys they are mostly condi” in commander chat and it saddens me.
Edit: As far as condition duration goes what if it was coupled with a damage modifier? Then it would have a reason to exist even in heavy condi clearing environments?
(edited by Kadin.2356)
I think I was very clear in my statement that WvW and PvP were vastly different environments. There are, however, correlations between broken mechanics in each game mode, being able to compress all of condition damages’ offensive power into a single stat leaves enough room where no sacrifices have to be made for survivability. Power builds have to make a choice between the two while condi builds can have their cake, and eat it too as it were.
My point was that they acknowledged this problem in PvP by taking that stat choice option away, but a more permanent fix is still required. I’ve seen many good suggestions already in other threads such as allowing condi’s to crit, then rebalancing damage such that condi builds will need to incorporate precision and furosity putting them more on equal terms with power builds.
At the end of the day, with no changes being made, WvW will devolve into nothing but condi cancer wars.
Yes, solo and small group roaming condition builds might outperform power builds (not might, pretty sure most do). Large scale that is a very different picture though. Conditions get cleansed a lot faster in wvw thanks to blasting of fields all the time. There is a reason why condition duration is a lot less valuable in wvw zerg fights than it is in pve for example (by the way, this is the 2nd damage stat for condis which you ignored in your comparison).
Powerbuilds do sacrifice damage for survivability. Then again direct damage can’t be mitigated or removed by cleansing. If you’d pit 2 equal sized groups of experienced wvw players against each other, if group direct damage keeps cleansing, group condition damage will get overrun.
I do agree in that I find the disparity between condition damage with one stat and direct damage a bit in favor of condition damage. It’s no where as bad though as you paint it out to be, especially in the wvw enviroment.
I think, historically, you are correct but lately there has been a dramatic shift towards conditions even at larger scales. I’m hearing a lot more “oh don’t fight those guys they are mostly condi” in commander chat and it saddens me.
Edit: As far as condition duration goes what if it was coupled with a damage modifier? Then it would have a reason to exist even in heavy condi clearing environments?
Condition duration itsself is already a damage modifier. It allows you to stack more condition stacks (since your skill will be up again while the original stack remains) or at minimum have your applied condition do damage for a longer period of time.
I’m not sure how they’ll want to fix conditions without making them more similar to direct damage. Maybe something will come along with the pve/pvp skill split. It’s one of thoes things which are hard to balance for 3 different game modes.
LOL…Another anti-conditions thread.
Kaa Mchorror NSP grenadier [hayt]
LOL…Another anti-conditions thread.
Well, don’t laugh, not yet anyway. What he’s saying isn’t entirely false. Now that condition stack in intensity, esp. the heaviest of them all, and do more damage overall because of it while the PvE world is thankful and jovial the WvWvW world should be in total dire straights. It’s hard to shake incredibly effective and easily applied stacks of things like burning and because of easy application cleanses are reduced in effectiveness.
I mean the solution is simply to return the conditions to their previous forms but at the same time that’s not really allowable anymore. Huge groups applying 50+ stacks of bleed wouldn’t be impossible presuming enough AoEs from relevant classes and because they all now tick against you rather than just the “top damage” of the 25 stacks it’s pretty brutal.
But still, he hates Dire. lulz.
Only when we start seeing the same population for each team on each map at any given hour, then something like this might matter more. Until then, it’s like patching up an arm vein while letting a ruptured aorta bleed the patient out. This is why sPvP can micro manage builds but WvW should not.
If you’re having a problem with conditions in a group/zerg situation, then your balance in the squad is wrong. There are so many ways to cleanse in a zerg if everyone knows their job and class it should be a non-event.
WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.
At the end of the day, with no changes being made, WvW will devolve into nothing but condi cancer wars.
It already has. Roaming/small-group is tank/condi + healer/support. The condi duration additions to gear for the sake of making condi a thing in PvE and the reduction to the passives to offset it has made things incredibly gross.
For larger group its damage reduction stacking and boon uptime.
Take the venomshare usage from a previous meta. Venomshare was garbage everywhere in the game (pve used power, pvp it was impractical to apply) with the exception of making wvw miserable by applying it to unblockable wells. So rather than shaving vs, Anet buffed it slightly and then annihilated stability as an added bonus.
Anet doesn’t care. They really don’t, so its either take it or leave it when it comes to wvw and ‘balance’.