Guild Wars 2

Can we have another poll to see if we can remove downstate from WvW? Its a poor mechanic that I and I’m sure many other roamers agree carries bad players. Oftentimes when I’m fighting 3 or more people by myself and manage to down 1 or more of them, the rest will usually res them faster than i can even finish the stomping animation to finish one of them off. You were downed, you lost, go waypoint. Please just remove this carry mechanic already and keep it in pve only.

Or at the very least can we change the outmanned buff so that it negates downstate for an enemy you kill and just kills them instantly when you take their hp to zero?

Serious question. What do you tell people that say something along the lines of: “That’s the risk you take going into 1v3 (or being outnumbered in some other capacity).”

Furthermore, you specifically ask for it as a priority to roamers at the expense of other play styles. Be mindful of that.

SKilled play should be rewarded. If you get downed when you 3 vs 1 someone, you deserve to die completely and not be carried by downstate to save you.

I’d be interested in voting on this topic.

Fighting outnumbered is the wvw way today, skill should matter instead of the downed state crutch. Some classes are ressing at insane rate also, it’s just a weird mechanic that doesn’t seem balanced right at times.

Yeah I mean whats the harm in having a poll? If the majority don’t want it, they just vote no and it doesn’t get put in. If yes gets voted, well then you know that the majority feels the same way I do and wants to bring back skilled gameplay to WvW.

Nikkinella.8254:

Yeah I mean whats the harm in having a poll? If the majority don’t want it, they just vote no and it doesn’t get put in. If yes gets voted, well then you know that the majority feels the same way I do and wants to bring back skilled gameplay to WvW.

People fear change

I don’t know what you consider skilled play (I stopped saying such things post-hot personally. :S ). This definitely favors bursting thieves that then can run away and reset then burst the next one, and repeat. If you can’t finish the downs, isn’t there a lack of skill in that?

My issue is your tunnel visioning on favoring your particular play style. I’d rather see this in Spvp though, where everyone can be assured gear is at least balanced.

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can’t run around without a guardian with res traits and mercy runes to babysit you when you get outplayed by someone? I don’t see why you’re arguing against this. Only unskilled zerglings that try to run over better players while relying on numbers should fear this.

Nikkinella.8254:

What are you afraid of? Are you one of those people that can’t run around without a guardian with res traits and mercy runes to babysit you when you get outplayed by someone? I don’t see why you’re arguing against this. Only unskilled zerglings that try to run over better players while relying on numbers should fear this.

I am arguing this because of your premise. You only accounted for roaming. Period. Had you made a case for the entire game mode that is WvW I’d be happy to oblige. And I run Cele on my guardian if I care to use it.

We had polls, and scoring was voted in…I’d rather not have anymore polls tbh.

This would definitely make stealth/burst roamers even more powerful. There’s not any skill involved in showing up out of stealth with the help of massive teleports in order to burst someone down in a few seconds. I don’t think it deserves any additional reward.

I say this as a roamer that often fights 1v2 or 1v3 and often sees downed opponents rezzed. If their allies are busy doing that, I’m free to light them all on fire for a few seconds. That’s fine by me.

How does this not benefit all of wvw? The more skilled smaller groups will be able to wipe the unskilled groups without them being carried by ressing their downs over and over until they overwhelm the smaller groups. This would also be a great way to punish zergs, which is something alot of us have wanted. Discouraging mindless blobbing is a good thing. The only one that suffers in this are the bad uncoordinated players, which is how it should be. We should just have a poll since we have alot of people who do want this, and alot of people who dont. And this topic gets brought up alot anyway.

to be more balanced i would agree to this only if the sever is outman

Taobella.6597:

to be more balanced i would agree to this only if the sever is outman

That would probably be better actually. Just a new thing to add on to outmanned buff.

Taobella.6597:

to be more balanced i would agree to this only if the sever is outman

This is more sensible. I’d still be against it. There is a lot of random crap that gets associated with the down state that’d need balance. Warrior banners and kitten.

Furthermore it’d be far easier to pin snipe…which was already fairly toxic as is.

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

or “disable the effects of enemy res traits and mercy runes” or “stomps are 100% faster” That would be nice too.

Nikkinella.8254:

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

or “disable the effects of enemy res traits and mercy runes” or “stomps are 100% faster” That would be nice too.

People still use Mercy runes or is that eu meta still? O.o Idk, ANET removed quickness stomps. Not sure they would want them back. Increasing stomp speed would remove relevance for Daredevil’s Impact Strike

+200% or +400% damage to down is enough for sure.

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

Chinchilla.1785:

Nikkinella.8254:

The enemies greatly outnumber your forces, be careful out there!
+50% Participation
+20% Magic Find
+25% World Experience
Take no armor damage on death
Being killed by the enemy team will not grant War Score.
Downstate is negated and bypassed for any enemy that you kill.

How does that sound?

To avoid balancing concerns with any abilities/traits associated with needing a downstate. I’d change it to give +200% damage to down players or something along that line.

or “disable the effects of enemy res traits and mercy runes” or “stomps are 100% faster” That would be nice too.

People still use Mercy runes or is that eu meta still? O.o Idk, ANET removed quickness stomps. Not sure they would want them back. Increasing stomp speed would remove relevance for Daredevil’s Impact Strike

+200% or +400% damage to down is enough for sure.

Oh yeah, people have been using them ALOT lately. I have no idea why there’s like this sudden huge influx of people running res traits+ mercy runes now, but its a fairly common thing now from what I’ve encountered. The res traits stack with mercy runes too. They can res someone faster than you’re even halfway finished with the stomping animation. very annoying when you blow several cooldowns to ensure a safe stomp and they still get up before you’re even partially done with the stomp animation.

At the very least they need to make the outmanned buff give 100-200% faster stomping animation. or they need to balance it out and give every class a finishing move like impact strike. They have the ability to just add skills if they want to. They’ve done it before with stuff like antitoxin spray.

Taobella.6597:

to be more balanced i would agree to this only if the sever is outman

I like that idea a lot!

I typically fight when highly outnumbered i.e. 1v3-15 (less so now post HoT) and I wouldn’t like that implemented. I use the rally states to my advantage. When people go to res, I use that as an opportunity to burst all of them there, reset survival skills I need to keep going, etc.

It works both ways, and the downstate system is great as is in my opinion.

We definitely should have a poll. Some hate the idea, some love it. So we should put it to a vote.

I don’t consider it skilled gameplay when you’re fighting 1v3 and you try to stomp the one guy you got downed. There are better ways to achieve victory, such as bursting the people trying to res.

Nate.3927:

I don’t consider it skilled gameplay when you’re fighting 1v3 and you try to stomp the one guy you got downed. There are better ways to achieve victory, such as bursting the people trying to res.

I’ve seen such cases and complained about it too, and also asked for outnumbered players to insta kill their enemies instead of downing them. Increasing damage to downed players or speed is fine too.

Even bursting the area with all the attacks you have isn’t enough : when they’re 2 to res, either the stomp is too slow, or your damage output is. You just can’t. Moreover, when you try to stomp, as you’re close to the 3 of them, it’s often a death trap.

I agree something needs to be done : managing a 1 vs 3 fight is getting more and more hopeless, and it’s sad, because things could be done. Even if I also acknowledge downstate and ressing is part of the game. Honestly, they’re right to do so. It’s just frustrating.

If this existed there would be no place for a backline left in zerg fights because they could just get bursted by 2 thiefs.

I would definitely like to try it in roaming but it just doesn’t work for zerg fights.

Also imagine the increased power of siege if your people would straight up die from it.

Nikkinella.8254:

SKilled play should be rewarded. If you get downed when you 3 vs 1 someone, you deserve to die completely and not be carried by downstate to save you.

If you’re unable to kill a player through down state after 5 years of the game beign out, then you dont deserve that kill. Simple as that. If you wanna play without downstate go play something else.

Entenkommando.5208:

If this existed there would be no place for a backline left in zerg fights because they could just get bursted by 2 thiefs.

I would definitely like to try it in roaming but it just doesn’t work for zerg fights.

Also imagine the increased power of siege if your people would straight up die from it.

Back line/ frontline is 2014 breh. Ball meta is life now.

I would like to at least give this idea a try. It couldn’t possibly do any more damage than golem week so what’s there to lose?
The one issue I see if it is based on the general outmanned buff…
say that you are roaming and start to take a camp or something and wind up on the wrong side of a 5v3, but the 5 guys have the outmanned buff because your server’s blob showed up and started hitting hills.

Sviel.7493:

This would definitely make stealth/burst roamers even more powerful. There’s not any skill involved in showing up out of stealth with the help of massive teleports in order to burst someone down in a few seconds. I don’t think it deserves any additional reward.

I say this as a roamer that often fights 1v2 or 1v3 and often sees downed opponents rezzed. If their allies are busy doing that, I’m free to light them all on fire for a few seconds. That’s fine by me.

Therefor this stealth classes with INSANE BURST need to be toned down from one shoting people. Ome shot build exist in almost orvr game but the ability to outrun without a counter after the burst is whats wrong.

I’d hate to see this change. No downed state would reward stupid stealth mechanic builds and huge bursts to the detriment of more balanced builds.

Deciding whether to res the downed state or downed that low HP opponent in a small scale fight is part of the tactics and skill of small scale- it also means that stupid stealth burst or huge condi burst toons don’t get an auto kill.

If you remove downed state then it would push even more the condi meta as everyone would tank up in zergs and there would be even less build variety. Who would want to play ele when the enemy has 5-10 thiefs ganking squishies the whole time?

Get rid of downed state and we’d see stealth wars- or have you never met the 5 man roaming party of scrapper, mes and 3 thiefs (or two and a druid) that appear briefly to down you and disappear just as quickly?

Baldrick.8967:

I’d hate to see this change. No downed state would reward stupid stealth mechanic builds and huge bursts to the detriment of more balanced builds.

Deciding whether to res the downed state or downed that low HP opponent in a small scale fight is part of the tactics and skill of small scale- it also means that stupid stealth burst or huge condi burst toons don’t get an auto kill.

If you remove downed state then it would push even more the condi meta as everyone would tank up in zergs and there would be even less build variety. Who would want to play ele when the enemy has 5-10 thiefs ganking squishies the whole time?

Get rid of downed state and we’d see stealth wars- or have you never met the 5 man roaming party of scrapper, mes and 3 thiefs (or two and a druid) that appear briefly to down you and disappear just as quickly?

Therefor NERF stealth classes so they wouldnt be able to do that easy. If they wanna one shot like they already do tbh they shouldnt be able to outrun when outnumbered. This game mode needs more atention and a diferent direction. The one it has is not working. Removing downsstate in OUTNUMBERED buf only would be awesome. There is no tactic for every class to cleave or kite after downing 1 in a 1vs3.and if its a 3vs 6 or a 3vs8 its the same. The players with smaller numbers should be rewarded that kill.

Baldrick.8967:

I’d hate to see this change. No downed state would reward stupid stealth mechanic builds and huge bursts to the detriment of more balanced builds.

Deciding whether to res the downed state or downed that low HP opponent in a small scale fight is part of the tactics and skill of small scale- it also means that stupid stealth burst or huge condi burst toons don’t get an auto kill.

If you remove downed state then it would push even more the condi meta as everyone would tank up in zergs and there would be even less build variety. Who would want to play ele when the enemy has 5-10 thiefs ganking squishies the whole time?

Get rid of downed state and we’d see stealth wars- or have you never met the 5 man roaming party of scrapper, mes and 3 thiefs (or two and a druid) that appear briefly to down you and disappear just as quickly?

I understand this, and I can relate. Yet it’s also a fact that a lot of classes use stealth to secure stomps, which also ruins the point of having a downed state in a hope to rally. The issue you’re pointing is stealth and burst strategies.

The broader issue here is that sometimes players feel like they “deserved” the stomp, because they managed to fight outnumbered, for exemple. Yet not only are they denied the stomp, but also eventually killed, which leads to frustration, abandon of “mildly underperforming” builds, installation of a meta scene, cheese, stealth and bursts… In a nutshell : what you’re complaining about.

But it’s impossible to tell when a stomp is “deserved” from a rational point of view.