Guild Wars 2

Right, now i want to ask a question, a serious one at that. In every thread regarding a profession or zerg balance or whatnot, rangers are always seen as the “worst possible profession”. Now i will not argue that there is more then enough issues with the profession, however after playing a ranger for nearly a year, iv’e learnt that it is far from weak, then again, i’m biased.

So, before you answer the question, bear in mind that a ranger is not supposed to:

• deal massive burst DPS (thats warrior territory)
• be a healer (we have guardian for that)
• be uber condition spammer (necro/engi)

So to keep it simple. List pro’s, con’s and issues within a zerg setting (30+), GVG setting (10-30), sniping/havoc team (5-10), solo roaming.

If anything, perhaps the devs will see what the community at large thinks, and not just us biased ranger lovers.

Something needs to be done for Rangers. I routinely ignore them entirely if they catch me while roaming. If a 2v1 situation shows itself and one is a ranger, I don’t think twice before engaging and killing said ranger right off the bat.

Now, I am a guardian and there are few classes that I fear 1v1 *Cough*kitten Mesmers*Cough* but a Ranger is not one of them =/

There are so many complaints but here would be my top:

• Very little use in a zerg with few group skills and pets frequently grab boons better spent on players.
• Very little use in skirmish… probably even less than a zerg since Healing Spring is too stationary of a heal for skirmish play
• Manageable in solo play but several classes hit harder, are tougher, run faster and have better overall utility mechanics
• Pets don’t dodge, evade or avoid red circles making them frequently dead even on friendly mode
• Class DPS is reduced so a pet can do damage but a pet is too easily removed/avoided in a fight
• No other class’s abilities can be killed while the player is still up

Basically the Ranger is the easy target in a fight whose damage can almost be entirely ignored. On a very rare occasion I will run across an exceptionally skilled one who is dangerous but that same player in a warrior, thief, mesmer, D/D ele would be far more dangerous.

Ranger pets and spirits should have been like a mobile warrior banner that functions like a signet (an active and passive ability). It would follow the Ranger around, add extra utility to the class, could not be killed without killing the player, would do no direct damage outside of an activated ability and would not compromise the player DPS. An activated pet ability would go off instantly and the pet would give the Ranger and possibly friends passive buffs. Rangers would work far better in WvW and boss fights (basically the end game) with this change. They would remain potent in general PvE and sPvP play.

As it was in GW1, give the option of removing the pet off of the skill bar… period.

Agreed, the pet is just not viable in WvW if it can be killed off so quickly and that half the traits seem to be for them. Make traps like a toolkit for engis instead of a pet and convert those pet specific traits to be ones for traps when switched. Sounds like balancing hell but I really really want traps that I can set off manually turning those blobs into snakes

Anything a ranger can do for a zerg another class can do better, they simply do not have enough utility. The only thing I can really think of that a ranger would be good for is the AoE root, thats it. They have a water field I guess thats something.

They just need more stuffs.

Nuzt.7894:

Anything a ranger can do for a zerg another class can do better, they simply do not have enough utility. The only thing I can really think of that a ranger would be good for is the AoE root, thats it. They have a water field I guess thats something.

They just need more stuffs.

There is one thing no other profession can do as well as a ranger. No other profession can be as good of a decoy/distraction, simply because any other profession are seen as a potential threat, thus attacking it comes down to choice. A ranger is seen as a walking lootbag, thus it is always attacked (i love it when i get a 60 man blob to follow me across a map)

Nuzt.7894:

The only thing I can really think of that a ranger would be good for is the AoE root, thats it. They have a water field I guess thats something. .

The human elite skill “Avatar of Melandru” does this just as well, but with a lot less damage than entangle, it is used fairly often in GvGs, so rangers don’t even have that as a niche.

Nuzt.7894:

The only thing I can really think of that a ranger would be good for is the AoE root, thats it. They have a water field I guess thats something.

That is plenty. AoE roots when used correctly are amazing. Enemy are using stability? Root them, boon strip them and destroy them. Enemy are zerging? Drop your AoE roots and bust up their stack. They also have plenty of survivability if built for it, and one of the best water fields in the game.

Rangers are seriously underrated imo.

Jorjeis.2169:

That is plenty. AoE roots when used correctly are amazing. Enemy are using stability? Root them, boon strip them and destroy them. Enemy are zerging? Drop your AoE roots and bust up their stack. They also have plenty of survivability if built for it, and one of the best water fields in the game.

Rangers are seriously underrated imo.

Entangle has a long cool down, must be taken over one of the few stabilities a ranger has, can be blocked and worst of all, it is a 1.5s immobilize that is eliminated via condition removal. My warrior doesn’t even notice when it goes off.

The only thing that gets entangled is scrubs who die easily anyway. Any half decent player just realized you wasted your best elite on something that is at best a minor irritant. IMO using it is on par with using barrage in the middle of skirmish.

Pooch<><><><>screwed<><><><>Anet on ranger

I think Rangers could have been done a bit better. I had high hopes for trappers in gw2, and end result as nutz notes, anything a ranger can do, another class can do better.

Int’s > mesmer
condi Traps > Take your pick, staff necro, bomb,nade engi, hell a general ele tosses more condi’s out
Immob? again, take your pick of class, rangers don’t excel too much here either (3 skills maybe? one at cost of elite).

The one thing I would give rangers credit for, is there underwater skillset, yet no one fights underwater and the water has all but been removed from most places.

But look at the bright side, the ones who are good at ranger class, and some are amazing… very few but some.

Sooner or later rangers will in fact be buff’d. They will get love, someday.

Why aren’t Rangers supposed to provide burst? That’s mark number one against them because burst is the only real form of damage that matters in WvW.

Why aren’t Rangers supposed to provide AE? That’s mark number two because AE is the only way to apply pressure on the opposing enemy forces.

Why aren’t Rangers supposed to be a top tier condi class? That’s mark number three because condi pressure is probably the most important thing in WvW right now. Especially the ability to AE condi burst.

So now that we’ve taken out these things what’s left for offensive power? You’re left with a class with no burst, no ae, and only strong single target condi control. This pushes the class into a roaming playstyle. Roaming is not the current WvW meta. So that’s mark number 4.

So what do we have to redeem all these bad marks against the class? You’d think a class with such poor offensive capability would at least provide defensive/group utility to make it valuable. In this area the Ranger also fails. A lot of the utility the class brings is from their spirits, which simply don’t work in WvW because of all the random splash damage. Aside from spirits, the next largest contribution for utility from the class comes from their pet. The pets aren’t responsive at all so the F2 function of the pets are unreliable even under ideal circumstances. But then you factor in the same splash damage issue that spirits have and you have a another functionally useless mechanic for the class. So what’s left? Spotter, which is in a bloated tree that most can’t justify bringing, and a water field, which is strong… but is hardly unique to the class and most would argue the versatility of other class’ water fields outshines the shorter cooldown of the Ranger’s.

So what else is there to talk about? Offensively the class is a joke because it doesn’t have even the most basic core mechanics that people look for in a group setting. Defensively it’s a joke because it brings so little group support and most would argue doesn’t even have enough to keep it alive (condi removal for example). Support/utility wise the class is a joke because most of the strong utility doesn’t work in the current WvW meta and the rest is provided in a far more functional/effective manner by other classes.

The ranger simply doesn’t do anything. It’s a great dueling class because it has conditions and they’re horribly overpowered right now. It has somewhat reliable sustained damage, but it’s single target or relies on piercing arrows to actually work, and even with piercing arrows it’s simply not the kind of damage that makes a difference.

Really the only thing the class actively provides is a warm body to soak up AE damage. And to provide that, you take away a slot better used by 7 other classes (really only 5 since most would argue none of the medium armor classes bring enough to justify their existence… but this is a Ranger thread).

Jorjeis.2169:

Nuzt.7894:

The only thing I can really think of that a ranger would be good for is the AoE root, thats it. They have a water field I guess thats something.

That is plenty. AoE roots when used correctly are amazing. Enemy are using stability? Root them, boon strip them and destroy them. Enemy are zerging? Drop your AoE roots and bust up their stack. They also have plenty of survivability if built for it, and one of the best water fields in the game.

Rangers are seriously underrated imo.

Your right it is amazing but, when every other class has 4-5 (just throwing out random numbers) utility skills and they have 1 … its not as important as the ones with 4-5. I love my ranger, its alot of fun to roam with but I feel pretty useless in a zerg situation aside from entangle which lets not forget is an elite so its CD is not that of a regular utility skill, not that I’m suggesting it should be.

you all missed longbow, axe and sword on your complaints lists. longbow and axe waste skills if the target sidesteps them, sword forces you into preset actions which usually kill you or throw you off a nearby cliff in a comical fashion.

Im a Ranger Fanboy tbh, i have thief/mesmer/elem… but even knowing they are better than my ranger, i still play with him.

And i must say, rangers are quite weak, do not have enough damage to deal with anyone but a noob or a bunch of ppl who ignore u until they are going to die.

I know rangers are supposed to be kinda paper chars, but they have not enough damage to 1v1 anyone, and talking about being useful? well we are not usefull at all in WvW, talking about “another class can do your job a lot better”.

So i must say, give rangers more presence in WvW, with better non-pet skills and more dmg, even if it sounds as a noob comment, after testing all classes, rangers seems to be useless compared to others, but i still use my ranger cause i like that class.

I have played my Ranger as much as I could and almost did all the Meta Achievements in WvW Living Story with him.

That being said, Rangers are in a terrible position right now. Pets are horrible with their AI, glitch-y F2, and ultimately they are destroyed when it comes to AoE. We have little defense even when we stack defensive traits, runes, and attributes. Healing Spring is a good water field, but only when you are covering people on flame rams or dropping it in a position where you know the zerg will continuously stand. Spirits are meh at best and can die really fast.

Elites like Tangled Root and Rampage as One function differently, but Rampage as One is our only source of stability. We are pigeon-holed into an elite that is basically just a bunch of boons that can be stripped at any time. Traps have really low range even when traited and can’t do the damage and conditions as say a Necro or Mesmer. Excluding pets, we lack confusion, fear, and torment. Blind can only be applied underwater. Weakness requires a living pet with the Axe skill 3 (good luck with that) and burning is either on the seldom used Torch or from a trap field.

This ultimately results in my Ranger getting the cross-hairs immediately. I have had to on many occasions run behind my server-mates only to see the enemy still follow me as hard as they can. I am very defensive with a greatsword, frost trap, and increased movement speed but still draw incredible amount of aggro. They KNOW that if they catch me I am a free loot bag, but ArenaNet has failed to deliver a decent patch for the Ranger since…… wait, when was the last time???

Ranger in zerg fight cons :

• Low survival
• Cannot spam 1 like guardians/warriors, when the server lags its almost unusable
• Very few AoE skills
• Damage not so good
• Pet

Ranger in zerg fight pros :

• Water field
• Boon stacking

Ranger in havoc/roaming cons :

• No enough condi removal in most builds
• Pet AI

Ranger in havoc/roaming pros :

• Good burst damage
• Fast stomp/ress
• Boon staking
• Good CC

I think ranger is not ment for zerging, but it also lack something in roaming/havoc,

Thief and mesmers have a lot of stealth skills that they can use to compensate the lack of survival and still dealing impressive damages, the ranger has no such a thing, a full zerker ranger dies in 2 seconds no matter what, a thief can always cloak and burst few seconds later

Right, so we have found some issues, there are more for sure, however, what should be done to fix this?
Especially the issues related to WvW.

A good example is;
The “bearbow” ranger is quite useless in WvW- Bears DO have their uses even in WvW, but there are other pets that does whatever job they do, much much better. However in PvE, bearbow is actually useful, as you can let the pet tank while you do the DPS.
In short, buffing the bearbow setup in WvW would make it OP in PvE, nerfing it in PvE would forever break it in WvW.
There are other examples that are better, but this is probably a build that most people know of and can relate to.

Prysin.8542:

Right, so we have found some issues, there are more for sure, however, what should be done to fix this?
Especially the issues related to WvW.

A good example is;
The “bearbow” ranger is quite useless in WvW- Bears DO have their uses even in WvW, but there are other pets that does whatever job they do, much much better. However in PvE, bearbow is actually useful, as you can let the pet tank while you do the DPS.
In short, buffing the bearbow setup in WvW would make it OP in PvE, nerfing it in PvE would forever break it in WvW.
There are other examples that are better, but this is probably a build that most people know of and can relate to.

Buffing bearbow doesn’t make the Ranger op in PvE because the bow part of the bearbow is awful in PvE.

In your op you seem to want to find some way to justify why this class should have NO ae, NO burst, and NO utility… I hope you were simply trying to justify why the Ranger may or may not have the BEST in these categories? Because if we refuse to give the class ANY ae, burst, or utility then you may as well not even bother approaching the class because these are 3 things that are mandatory in any multiplayer game.

Burst: Right now the class only really has one or 2 real options for burst: maul and path of scars. The problem with these weapons is aside from these 2 skills, they don’t offer much else offensively. Especially in the case of Greatsword which is a support weapon first and foremost. The easiest way to make these forms of burst reliable is to give the class a trait to reduce the cooldown on weapon swap much like Warriors have. Now this alone won’t give the class enough burst to actually be useful to a group, but solo/roaming would probably find this to be mostly acceptable.

For group combat the class is still very short on burst and needs 1 or 2 other forms of burst to win. The easiest and most ‘in theme’ option is to simply give the class Kill Shot like Warriors get. It will obviously do 25 to 30% less damage than a Warrior’s skill just like every other weapon option the class has, so Warriors can settle down about being dethroned. The best thing to do to add this is either move barrage or introduce a new signet that when acitvated gives the class a unique attack dependent on the weapon they use. Longbow could be a kill shot, shortbow a burning arrow, etc etc.

AE: When it comes to AE the class only really has barrage. It’s incredibly weak, roots the class briefly while channeling, and pulses a low damage attack which triggers retaliation (why retaliation doesn’t simply return a % of the damage done is beyond me) which often results in the Ranger’s death. So with all of these issues it’s really a terrible AE for the class and one most people don’t use outside of keep defense/offense.

The best option, in my opinion, since this class is so AE deprived is to make this a skill. Once it’s a skill the damage can be boosted so it’s actually worth using. Since we’re adding skills, there’s no reason to remove anything. If we must remove something, spike trap is easily the worst utility skill we have. It’s a single use cripple and bleed, does poor damage, needs 30 pts to immobilize a target, and has a similar cooldown. Why not simply make barrage immobilize up to 5 targets on the first wave of shots (which will offset the fact you’re immobilized while channeling it), each wave stacks bleeds and cripples, and power damage is increased dramatically? It’s now better than a fully traited spike trap with no trait investment, is now class wide AE instead of weapon specific, valuable to power and condi builds, etc. It also has the added advantage of making room for killshot on the longbow.

Now this may not be enough AE, but it’s a reasonable start.

Utility: This is the difficult thing to approach. A lot of our current utility is tied to pets which simply don’t work in general… but when you consider them in WvW they’re lolworthy. This includes our main pet and spirits. If spirits and pets were the least bit useful in WvW perhaps our utility would be on par, or at least to the point where a group of 10 or so may actually consider bringing a Ranger along. Aside from adding clones of very popular skills to the class (Wall of Thorns to block projectiles and knockback foes, Trailblazing so the Ranger and 5 people by it all move at 33% movement speed, Improved Muddy Terrain so those who stand it gain stability [which is a skill in the game], and some way to put 10 stacks of vuln on 5 different targets) I think just getting spirits and pets to a useable spot in WvW may help things from a utility stand point. It doesn’t help with build diversity much because only condi/bunker builds will exist once spirits work in WvW…. but for now, lets just get Ranger working.

@ather

While i do not ENJOY the fact that ranger is lacking in terms of the three things i stated. I do acknowledge that IF a ranger was sposed to excel or even compete with other profession in the three things i stated, ANET would have added it from the start. Now, considering they DID NOT, i assume that they had other plans for the profession. Obviously those plans did not work, however turning the ranger into a nerfed warrior, as you are implying, are not a solution, it is simply avoiding the problem altogether by just giving it a flat out DPS and Utility boost while not keeping in line with the professions feel and function. This is not only detrimental to the profession, but also the game. Especially your idea to rip skills from other games (D2/D3/WoW). Sure they may fit in, however by doing so, the game’s originality get washed out, and in the end, other professions will get these “somewhat appropriate” skill rip-offs too.

I still do not understand why people can not work with what they got, instead of whining about a total re-creation of the profession. The latter is obviously too expensive, time consuming and blatantly redundant to ever be done. Another interesting thing to keep in mind is, if you redo the ranger from the ground up, the other professions should get equal treatment in order to rectify their issues. This again means that you will have to redo, the entire game to compensate for the new level of power and efficiency. This again costs even more money, is not worth it to the company, and certainly wouldn’t help the ranger. As in the end, if everyone else get’s their stuff perfected and fixed, we will still get the shortest straw simply because of what makes the other professions weak, make’s ranger strong.

Prysin.8542:

@ather

While i do not ENJOY the fact that ranger is lacking in terms of the three things i stated. I do acknowledge that IF a ranger was sposed to excel or even compete with other profession in the three things i stated, ANET would have added it from the start. Now, considering they DID NOT, i assume that they had other plans for the profession. Obviously those plans did not work, however turning the ranger into a nerfed warrior, as you are implying, are not a solution, it is simply avoiding the problem altogether by just giving it a flat out DPS and Utility boost while not keeping in line with the professions feel and function. This is not only detrimental to the profession, but also the game. Especially your idea to rip skills from other games (D2/D3/WoW). Sure they may fit in, however by doing so, the game’s originality get washed out, and in the end, other professions will get these “somewhat appropriate” skill rip-offs too.

I still do not understand why people can not work with what they got, instead of whining about a total re-creation of the profession. The latter is obviously too expensive, time consuming and blatantly redundant to ever be done. Another interesting thing to keep in mind is, if you redo the ranger from the ground up, the other professions should get equal treatment in order to rectify their issues. This again means that you will have to redo, the entire game to compensate for the new level of power and efficiency. This again costs even more money, is not worth it to the company, and certainly wouldn’t help the ranger. As in the end, if everyone else get’s their stuff perfected and fixed, we will still get the shortest straw simply because of what makes the other professions weak, make’s ranger strong.

Because what the class has doesn’t work and no matter how much you wish it to be so, it never will work without the basic elements any class needs to succeed in this game.

There’s also no need to redesign the Ranger from the ground up. Now it may take a lot of work to get things like pets and spirits into working order, this isn’t asking for a redesign. It’s asking ANet to do what they should have been doing over the past year and finding a solution to glaring problems that have been present since beta. I also wouldn’t call giving this class a single ondemand burst skill and a single AE skill a complete redesign either.

Kill shot also doesn’t turn the class into a nerfed warrior. The Ranger is already a unique class even if it has no purpose or direction right now. All kill shot is doing is providing the class some burst that is thematically accurate. And all the skills I suggested are just clones of what other classes provide as well.

Honestly, the largest problem I think you, me, and other players are having right now is no one has the faintest clue just what the Ranger class is supposed to do in this game. This is an MMO… so a jack of all trades class is not going to work right off the bat so don’t even try to pretend that’s what this class is. We’ve asked ANet to tell us what the class is supposed to do or what role it fulfills and all they’ve come back with is ’it’s the pet class’ which is probably the most painful thing any Ranger has ever heard in their life considering the miserable state pets are in.

Until ANet actually has a defined goal and a direction for this class to go all players can do is play the way they want and make suggestions to fill the holes the class has in their preferred play style. For me, being a power Ranger, it’s the total lack of burst and any meaningful group utility.

I don’t know group with thief and mesmer and ele since they didn’t make your list either?

Prysin.8542:

Right, so we have found some issues, there are more for sure, however, what should be done to fix this?
Especially the issues related to WvW.

• Improve pet AI
• Fix class bugs
• Improve traits synergy
• Class balance for every mode, WvW-sPvP-PvE

But those things take time, which Anet doesn’t have, not for ranger anyway.