Guild Wars 2

Hello Kaineng,

Been on this server since September. We have had some ups and downs that have been well-recorded (I miss Fubuki’s Kaineng battle reports), usually coinciding with transfers in and transfers out.

For a time there, we were starting to get the teamwork thing sorted. Using the WM-provided teamspeak server we had commanders fearlessly commanding/karaoke’ing for most of the day.

What we are now seeing is the server becoming an increasingly chaotic, empty, closed, unco-operative and unfriendly community.

It is the way the new teamspeak server is, and is not, being used that causes me concern. Those guilds who use it typically don’t use the BL channels but instead shut themselves in their guild channels. And then there are the guilds who don’t use it at all.

For example, why don’t the RE commanders (who field probably the most organized group during NA-primetime) use the server teamspeak? The justification I heard from them was that there had been “spies” using the public teamspeak. Not so difficult for a teamspeak server which can be publicly joined, is advertised in map chat in WvW, I’ll grant them that. Their response, which was then to provide me the address for the private RE-ts3 server which they use, seems a little hypocritical.. who’s to say I’m not one of those ghost spies?

The result is, you have a pretty decent RE zerg (which granted, used to do its fair share of kittening about “ kitten PUGs” (always thought the “s” was superfluous myself but figured few of you knew what PUG stood for) which has locked itself in its room while the “pugs” stand, clueless, out in the rain. Those same pugs who could be following your instructions, and a great deal of whom did (myself included) don’t even bother to make up numbers for you any more because they don’t even like to imagine the volume of the kittening about them on your guild ts3 server…

It is all just ineffably sad. I hope the changes to the way match-ups are generated will build some excitement and teamwork again, however I don’t see how that will be possible with everyone locked in their guild channels/servers.

Very best,

Megumi Shino.

There are a (rare) few guilds that don’t use the Kaineng teamspeak because either they don’t speak English at all, or they don’t feel it’s good enough. That’s a good reason.

Some commanders get frustrated because even after asking repeatedly on mapchat for people to join teamspeak, there’s like 6 of us in there tops. That’s lame, and should be fixed.

The commanders who refuse to use it when they are tagged up and know they’re getting militia following… are lame. I said it.

Sounds like a problem that needs to be worked on KN forum and not aired on GW2 forums. Good luck.

Yep we have a forum for this sort of stuff.

Right. Right! For those that don’t know (because I sure didn’t for a few months!) the forum is http://kainengunited.net. Please to join if you’re on Kaineng.

To his credit, he seems to be getting more of a reaction here than he would have on the forum heh

As for Teamspeak, those running it can have a verified server group that you assign to defenders who don’t run in a guild. Give guild leaders watered down admin priviledges that let them assign players to server groups dedicated to each guild. When you have someone who is untagged, figure out who they are by having them say something on map or in TS and get them tagged.

It takes a little while and some effort, but you’ll find yourself with a large TS population of players who have been verified. When you get that occasional troll spy, it’s easy to single them out quickly without having to worry about kicking your own dedicated players… it also saves on all the paranoia that might come along with an unorganized TS.

Just my two cents.

I don’t speak for RE leadership, but I do know we have had trouble with trolls in the past who’ve interrupted our WvW operations. There are some of us that use the public TS as well.

Sounds like you all just need to be vigilant. Especially in terms of making your VoIP a good place for the community to be. If you let others ruin it for you it doesn’t matter how many new voice chat servers you set up it ultimately wont last.

No one wants to see a community crash and burn. Well some do I suppose. Stay vigilant with your community and rebuild it up. Everyone has to reach out to each other and come together. Acting like children with segregated groups isn’t going to help, but respect each others space and guilds right to just chill with their guild. Take the time to deal with the BS in your community and it will be much better off.

When you do build it back up don’t let too much influence or leadership go to one person or group of people. When that happens and they do leave your community will do what it is doing right now. Always have someone to replace lost people. When you can do that and something like this happens to your community the effect will be minimal.

There’s nothing wrong with posting in here. Chances are those he wants to reach out to don’t use the server website. This is the best outlet for what he wants to do. Just some of my advice. Good luck Kaineng.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the OP. I’ve been logging into TS for quite some time, as requested, and hear little if anything useful. I realize most are simply using their guild channel. Not useful! Oh and the spies…yes…we’ve been hearing about all the alleged spies for a while. Funny how it didn’t seem a problem before. WEV.

I have checked out the Community Forum (my wife registered for it) and been disappointed with the attitudes expressed by some of the Leadership, particularly towards “PUGS” and/or Militia. This is why I have decided it’s time to finally move on, after all this time on Kaineng, my only server to date.

Hopefully it improves in the future and the current stiff neck leadership loosens itself up much more.

ghtchill.7613:

This is why I have decided it’s time to finally move on, after all this time on Kaineng, my only server to date.

Sad day to see you both go, but I understand. Enjoy yourselves.

Aye. Sad it is. Much thanks for your well wishes, not the topic, but perhaps the topics point. May we see you again soon.

There is a quick and easy way to solve this but it requires your own proactive initiative.

GW2 allows players to join multiple guilds and but only represent one at a time.

Pick a time slot that you usually play WvW , join with a guild active in WvW at that time slot. Get to know the members and join their vent. Learn new tactics and coordination with them.

I would be happy to help recommend active WvW kaineng guilds if you drop me a mail with your timezone ( NA, EU or Oceanic ) with languages you understand.

Sol.8341:

There is a quick and easy way to solve this but it requires your own proactive initiative.

GW2 allows players to join multiple guilds and but only represent one at a time.

Pick a time slot that you usually play WvW , join with a guild active in WvW at that time slot. Get to know the members and join their vent. Learn new tactics and coordination with them.

I would be happy to help recommend active WvW kaineng guilds if you drop me a mail with your timezone ( NA, EU or Oceanic ) with languages you understand.

I already found a solution…you constant complainer….it does not involve Kaineng or you. Good Luck.

I kinda understand why public vent don’t work now. when I extend a helping hand, to get such reply … judge for yourselves.

@ghtchill and @kiwiburner

I hope you don’t mind but I already copied and pasted your posts to the Kaineng forums. It’s better that it gets addressed there.

ghtchill.7613:

Sol.8341:

There is a quick and easy way to solve this but it requires your own proactive initiative.

GW2 allows players to join multiple guilds and but only represent one at a time.

Pick a time slot that you usually play WvW , join with a guild active in WvW at that time slot. Get to know the members and join their vent. Learn new tactics and coordination with them.

I would be happy to help recommend active WvW kaineng guilds if you drop me a mail with your timezone ( NA, EU or Oceanic ) with languages you understand.

I already found a solution…you constant complainer….it does not involve Kaineng or you. Good Luck.

lol, even kaineng players hate sol. I’m bored and I can’t sleep so I decided to chime in on your topic with this unuseful comment.

But in all seriousness I understand where you guys are coming from, I can’t imagine playing this game without communication, its almost not viable. Being able to call for reinforcements with a simple switch of a channel in whatever VOIP you use is much easier then looking through friends lists, guild lists, and whispering individual people to come to your aid just isnt as efficient or effective and everything runs much smoother when commanders, no matter what guild they are from, join public VOIP to get organized and try to cause some damage. I am aware that there are trolls and spies but there is a way to ban these people or mute them if they become too annoying. I’m sure we have had our fair share of spies in mumble but we do not let it hinder our communication or drive us from our own mumble to find refuge in a private VOIP server. I understand the need for a private channel or program for when you run with guilds but public channels should not be taken lightly, they are a great tool and can turn the tide of a battle if there were sufficient people using it and communicating effectively.

kiwiburner.2186:

The result is, you have a pretty decent RE zerg (which granted, used to do its fair share of kittening about kitten PUGs" (always thought the “s” was superfluous myself but figured few of you knew what PUG stood for) which has locked itself in its room while the “pugs” stand, clueless, out in the rain. Those same pugs who could be following your instructions, and a great deal of whom did (myself included) don’t even bother to make up numbers for you any more because they don’t even like to imagine the volume of the kittening about them on your guild ts3 server…

It is all just ineffably sad. I hope the changes to the way match-ups are generated will build some excitement and teamwork again, however I don’t see how that will be possible with everyone locked in their guild channels/servers.

Very best,

Megumi Shino.

I haven’t been playing that much recently, but generally we try to use the term ‘militia’ over pugs and avoid blaming them for wipes etc.
I mean I’m not sure if you remember RISE, CO or WM, but we at least respect other Kaineng players… At the very worst I call them squirrels when 10 of my 15 man zerg go off to chase one YB thief o_o

I know this current matchup is unlike the other tiers we have been in in that certain Maguuma players are trying lots of ways to headhunt our commanders or track our movements. There have been lots of people trying to sneak into parties so they can track our zerg and even people posing as Kaineng players trying to get the commanders to link the gear they wear so they can identify them on the battlefield better. This combined with the Kain TS being very unsecure means its easy to get paranoid at the moment.

I agree though we need a solution for the whole server to be able to communicate.

There are more pros to having the server communicate to each other rather than the cons of having spies know of our movements.

luwe.1496:

There are more pros to having the server communicate to each other rather than the cons of having spies know of our movements.

This.

I haven’t been playing that much recently, but generally we try to use the term ‘militia’ over pugs and avoid blaming them for wipes etc.
I mean I’m not sure if you remember RISE, CO or WM, but we at least respect other Kaineng players…  At the very worst I call them squirrels when 10 of my 15 man zerg go off to chase one YB thief  o_o

I know this current matchup is unlike the other tiers we have been in in that certain Maguuma players are trying lots of ways to headhunt our commanders or track our movements.  There have been lots of people trying to sneak into parties so they can track our zerg and even people posing as Kaineng players trying to get the commanders to link the gear they wear so they can identify them on the battlefield better.  This combined with the Kain TS being very unsecure means its easy to get paranoid at the moment.

I agree though we need a solution for the whole server to be able to communicate.

Sorry if you think we are infiltrating your TS, I can assure you that the majority of the players I play with do not waste our time with sneaking into other servers VOIP because it is just that, a waste. I can’t speak for everyone though so there very well could be someone in there that is listening in on you. And as to the commander targetting thing, we do it all the time. we can easily click through a zerg and eventually find the one with the commanders buff since the commander is usually in the front it isnt very hard, I have never seen someone ask for other commanders to ping their gear, that is a new one for me.

jaycatano.6738:

Sorry if you think we are infiltrating your TS, I can assure you that the majority of the players I play with do not waste our time with sneaking into other servers VOIP because it is just that, a waste. I can’t speak for everyone though so there very well could be someone in there that is listening in on you. And as to the commander targetting thing, we do it all the time. we can easily click through a zerg and eventually find the one with the commanders buff since the commander is usually in the front it isnt very hard, I have never seen someone ask for other commanders to ping their gear, that is a new one for me.

Yeh, obviously it is very easy to see who the commander is on the battlefield and target them. But just the fact people are trying these weird methods it is slightly worrying. And if someone is that committed to winning then going on the Kain TS would just be the next logical step…

kiwiburner.2186:

It is the way the new teamspeak server is, and is not, being used that causes me concern. Those guilds who use it typically don’t use the BL channels but instead shut themselves in their guild channels.

Herro.
Please allow me to clarify and shed some light on these points. As it stands we have 3 Guilds who “shut themselves in their guild channels”. One of them actually, is mine. The first reason is this: during the slow hours in Toronto time since a few of my members and I live in close proximity, we use our Guild channel. The reason for this is because we as a Guild DO NOT have our own TS server. Therefore the Kaineng server is our only Teamspeak. That means we’re either in a dungeon, doing different PvE and just talking amongst ourselves. Zepheris Chronology, the Guild I started back in September is a group designed for new players to be trained by advanced members. Therefore most of our Teamspeak chatter circles around builds, which dungeons to spam, which sigils/runes are best for a specific build/character.
The second reason is: The other 2 notable Guilds that are normally stuck in their own channels either prefer to speak their own native language, or know/speak little to no English whatsoever, so they co-ordinate much more quickly as a havoc squad. This is most noticeable during Reset nights when the Border channels are extremely busy with comm-chatter from Commanders. The smaller Guilds prefer to communicate clearly on their own channels, rather than flooding the channel and confusing the main squad (especially if the message is not in English).

kiwiburner.2186:

For example, why don’t the RE commanders (who field probably the most organized group during NA-primetime) use the server teamspeak? The justification I heard from them was that there had been “spies” using the public teamspeak.

This is actually only the second time I’ve heard RE using a different channel due to spies. During Karaoke Thursdays, the mapchat is spammed with the RE TS channel so that other members can join in on the Naked Zerg runs. Information you were given regarding the reasons may be a bit outdated.

The basic reason is this: When War Machine abruptly pulled the plug without prior notice on the Kaineng Server TS, it sent a lot of members into panic mode, especially since a lot of people were using the TS when it went offline. One of the RE members used their own money to fund and start an RE channel. One of the reasons being that because it is under RE control, it will not be removed without prior notice to its own members. However, a few hours later, the Server channel which we are now using went online and was advertised. As respect to the RE member who funded the RE channel ahead of time, RE decided to continue using their own Channel. Much like any other Guilds, they also have their own discussions and listen to music on the server, therefore they’ve chosen to stay there. During primetime when it gets busy for us, several, if not MOST/ALL of RE use the public channel. The non-members are free to ask RE for their Channel address to join, or simply follow them on the map. All-in-all, there is simplicity and security in using a channel which you control, and once again, during their prime, there are several Members of RE in the public channel.

I just started playing GW2 again a month and a half ago and have pretty much been no-lifing WvW on Kaineng. I’m the kind of dude who would love if everyone on the server was mad organized, all on TS, and cooperative.

Was a regular in the public TS and there were quite a few times where my dream of organized, competitive groups actually happened. After a while, I was invited into RE, and started rolling with them. Cool, a competitive WvW guild.

After I started becoming familiar with Kaineng’s WvW community, I started to realize it is really fragmented. Some guilds have some strife and don’t cooperate, etc, but I also noticed recruitment messages for RE’s TS; the server is to join RE’s own TS instead of the public one. And despite Caephire’s post above me, all of last week RE used the private, password-protected channel for operations instead of the public TS or even RE’s public WvW channels. And, to further this isolation, an active oceanic WvWer who knows his stuff wanted to join the TS. After I whispered a server admin the situation, he was still never moved in.

This seems a bit exclusive, and also discourages cooperation between guilds, and creates the PUG situation described by the OP, which indeed is a vicious cycle and continues the raging and venting towards PUGs.

I ultimately still do not understand why not use the public TS, even after hearing the “pros” for breaking off from the public TS for WvW operations. Spies? There are better solutions than total isolation. Actually, the topic was brought up today in TS. The arguments for using the public TS were totally ignored, and the argument against was that people use open-mic and it’s annoying. So apparently the issue isn’t spies.
————————————————————————————————
TL:DR, it seems like the server is becoming more fragmented and exclusive behavior is further affecting the server’s performance, potential, and community, and should be addressed, and other servers reading this thread can also learn from this situation

It is sad really. Everyone wishes there was a way to fix it. But it happens in every day life and in video games.

When everything is going well, everyone is all huggy, huggy, look how great we are.

When things go bad, its all hate, hate you suck get out of my way, I don’t have time for you.

If you get bored go back to some of the match up threads as you came up through the ranks, if they are still around, and post some of them on your server page.

Perhaps it will shame some of them into opening their minds. There was a lot of we love training newbies, we love helping people, we are all Kain! In those post.

Wryscher.1432:

It is sad really. Everyone wishes there was a way to fix it. But it happens in every day life and in video games.
When everything is going well, everyone is all huggy, huggy, look how great we are.
When things go bad, its all hate, hate you suck get out of my way, I don’t have time for you.
If you get bored go back to some of the match up threads as you came up through the ranks, if they are still around, and post some of them on your server page.
Perhaps it will shame some of them into opening their minds. There was a lot of we love training newbies, we love helping people, we are all Kain! In those post.

I wonder if those same people stayed on the server, or bailed. Either way, Dehare/Nalare/Shaka Zulu said it best. The so called “community” of Kaineng is right now a 15-man group. And that’s because we’re in weekly meetings. We talk on Teamspeak, we are on WvW … we’re trying to include everyone, and yet some people are against it … why? What have they got to lose?

What I’m about to say is not a slam or directed against the OP, it’s a message to ALL Kaineng who feel excluded or somehow ashamed of the server.

We can be huggy huggy, we congratulate each other when we capture something after a long fight. We say great job to ALL members, not just to a specific Guild. But there are those within the server who don’ t want to be part of that, and yet they seem to see some problem and post about it online. Why rant for all the other servers to see? Because you refused to make friends within the server you’re on, so you think no one will listen to you? We’re here to listen. We’re here to communicate. This is a two way road, we’re opening our arms, and you’re pushing us away. We’re working on creating a community and have a website to keep you updated on progress and yet you refuse to join. We, the ones who are dedicated to strengthening Kaineng have done what we can on our end … your turn …

15 ppl? Ouch. I’ve heard Maguuma has considerably more than that in their public Mumble at peak times.
I understand most servers have some sort of public voip that is usually made good use of, but this is best discussed within Kaineng and not exactly on a public forum.
@ Bushido: You did realize that several of us do use the public TS right?

Hi Megumi Shino. This discussion will continue on kainengunited.net. Please register there and continue there. Thanks.

http://kainengunited.net/threads/re-wvw-organization.285/

Long story short, we would like to apologize to any small guilds or individual players who felt that they are left out. We are well aware that you are an important part of our WvW efforts.

Current situation is we can no longer rely on elite players, commanders and guilds. They had moved on, chasing their dreams. The current Kaineng is a tier 8 population server hanging on to dear life in tier 3.

The only solution: We need absolutely everyone to be elite and form an elite fighting force.

We need absolutely the whole server to coordinate. We need absolute everyone on ts. We need absolutely everyone to listen to and obey commanders. We need everyone to be of elite level of teamwork to win.

For example, SoR’s Teamspeak is currently the 2nd most active TS3 server in America, and 10th world wide. They won tier 1 last week. They had achieve what we wanted for Kaineng: Total 100% teamwork and coordination within a server.

If you guys do not use TS, do not listen to and obey commanders, and do not eventually gain an elite level of teamwork, we got no chance in tier 3. Just look at our current score and you know I speak the truth.

The Kaineng alliance is willing and able to guide you to this dream. Please join us at Kainengunited.net.

CHIPS.6018:

The current Kaineng is a tier 8 population server…

lol

Not sure about T8, but I know what he means. When WvW shuts down during NA prime, and you see 50 ppl (everyone that was in WvW), you know you have a numbers issues. I think on reset night we maybe have one map queued. Not sure about our Oceanic numbers, but I’ve yet to see more than 40-50 ppl during that time frame also.
What this means is we must value quality over quantity. That is what Chips means. It is something taught to us by WM and others.

JudgeD,
I just noticed your sig and thank you for the laugh today. “Too poor to transfer” really? Might want to talk to your money bags server community who was willing to try and buy out the entire CD NA-side WvW community this past weekend. Also, just so there is no confusion for anyone CD rejected the offer as we love our home and well that would just be rude to our new family members in KWBH.

But ya 2 TS servers for a community because a couple guilds are paranoid about spies and trolls. Someone takes this kitten too seriously. I mean doing that will split and fracture your server I’ve seen it twice before in just my personal experience in this game and ya not pretty.

I have never fought at Kaineng’s asian time without being seriously outnumbered. If you haven’t noticed, you guys probably have a T2 night time presence. They’re just not able to carry your NA anymore.

@ Greive: My sig is an ironic commentary on bandwagoners. The point being, I would transfer too if I could afford it (tongue in cheek). I’ve been on Kaineng since I started back in Nov.
@ Banjamin: Our NA consists of 50-60 ppl on two maps at maximum, though 20-30 on one map is more common (and less than 10 during EU prime). We have good cmmdrs who use what they have, and the fact that we’ve keeping up like we have, I think, speaks for itself as to our skill. Whereas, Mag, organized though they may be, likes to bunker down in towers and keep, knowing we do not have the NA numbers to pry them out. I understand our Asians run into the same thing. Chips is trying to focus on skill and quality rather than numbers since he knows we are lower in WvW population than either Mag or YB. I’ve estimated our total active server numbers aren’t much past 300-400 at any given time based on what I see in both WvW and PvE.

Benjamin.6235:

I have never fought at Kaineng’s asian time without being seriously outnumbered. If you haven’t noticed, you guys probably have a T2 night time presence. They’re just not able to carry your NA anymore.

Kaineng’s NA presence isn’t T2-like from my experience. At least, it doesn’t near NNK’s massive zergball…but the only time I’ve experienced it was when I was up till 6am PT on reset. We were pretty outnumbered for awhile, but it actually got more even by the time I went to bed. Definitely not as difficult to deal with, in either case, or we wouldn’t be maintaining waypoints all week.

JudgeD.5673:

@ Greive: My sig is an ironic commentary on bandwagoners. The point being, I would transfer too if I could afford it (tongue in cheek). I’ve been on Kaineng since I started back in Nov.
@ Banjamin: Our NA consists of 50-60 ppl on two maps at maximum, though 20-30 on one map is more common (and less than 10 during EU prime). We have good cmmdrs who use what they have, and the fact that we’ve keeping up like we have, I think, speaks for itself as to our skill. Whereas, Mag, organized though they may be, likes to bunker down in towers and keep, knowing we do not have the NA numbers to pry them out. I understand our Asians run into the same thing. Chips is trying to focus on skill and quality rather than numbers since he knows we are lower in WvW population than either Mag or YB. I’ve estimated our total active server numbers aren’t much past 300-400 at any given time based on what I see in both WvW and PvE.

How on earth do you estimate those numbers?

saiyr.3071:

How on earth do you estimate those numbers?

That is based solely on what I’ve seen when I’m on, and I daresay during NA prime, that number is lower. My point is, we simply do not a have a PvE population to draw from like other servers though I’m not sure it’s T8.

I should note that I am not on between 2-10 AM EDT. If our Asians have some massive zerg during that time, I will not see it. And I was talking about Mag seemingly bunkering down during the time I am on.

I don’t know when you are on, but when “Xushin’s All Day Karma Train” is frequently the most populated Mumble channel, I don’t really associate “bunker down” with our strategy.

I am not referring to your karma train, and by “bunker down”, I mean defending a tower with 30 ppl, 5 ACs, and a ballista. I seriously did not know it took that many to defend a tower against a similar size enemy zerg. I should note that I don’t see this sort of thing the whole time I am on, but there have been several times in recent memory.

JudgeD.5673:

I am not referring to your karma train, and by “bunker down”, I mean defending a tower with 30 ppl, 5 ACs, and a ballista. I seriously did not know it took that many to defend a tower against a similar size enemy zerg. I should note that I don’t see this sort of thing the whole time I am on, but there have been several times in recent memory.

The other day YB had 14 arrow carts in SE tower. That’s a record from what I’ve seen. Fortunately we snuck in behind as they were fighting over a bridge for whatever reason. That’s some dedication for the worst tower on the map.

Does Kain have a verification system?

How it works on my server’s TS is when someone unverified enters, we ask them to type an X in game on the map chat to confirm whether they are/aren’t on the server. If they fail to type X they are just moved into the Akitten channel but aren’t banned until they start trolling/doing stupid stuff. It works in getting rid of spies, unless the spy is on our server and relaying information back. If that’s the case then we have no way of knowing, but it’s not a big deal since we look for fights.