Guild Wars 2

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Teej.9241:

Stab really isn’t the focus of this thread, folks.

Not true.

You said:

Teej.9241:

I can deal with all the other boons, even resistance is annoying but not a huge deal, but Quickness just seems like way too strong of a boon to be able to stack that high of a duration.

So I’m disagreeing with you that quickness is the main problem.

It’s boon sharing in general that is the problem not just quickness sharing.

So stability and other boons are just as on topic as quickness.

read the title

Melanion.4892:

top fight guild
(TW)

Pick one

ventusthunder.5067:

Melanion.4892:

top fight guild
(TW)

Pick one

xd

Guys, of all the boons. Having 50secs of quickness is the most op. The rest are manageable.

MrFluffy.9307:

read the title

Read the original post.

+1 for anet visibility

Zero.4935:

Guys, of all the boons. Having 50secs of quickness is the most op. The rest are manageable.

permanent, easily application of the boon is the problem.

like alacrity, it is too strong to be stacked as easy as it currently can be, and should be tuned down.

+1

The reason why balance is out of whack in WvW is because Anet has a separate skills balance team that tweak the overall class balance. Devs from individual game-modes don’t have the power to make these balance changes. That’s why balance changes come by so slow and infrequently for WvW & PvP. Boon sharing & boon stacking are the way they are likely because Anet is happy with how it functions in PvE & raids.

See quote from Josh Davis below. Sadly until we can get separate game-mode balance for each of the game-modes, I don’t expect a lot of changes.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

gavyne.6847:

The reason why balance is out of whack in WvW is because Anet has a separate skills balance team that tweak the overall class balance. Devs from individual game-modes don’t have the power to make these balance changes. That’s why balance changes come by so slow and infrequently for WvW & PvP. Boon sharing & boon stacking are the way they are likely because Anet is happy with how it functions in PvE & raids.

See quote from Josh Davis below. Sadly until we can get separate game-mode balance for each of the game-modes, I don’t expect a lot of changes.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey folks,

Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.

What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.

It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.

I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.

-Grouch

Doesn’t PvP have separate skill changes though? I believe they announce it in a recent patch.

Yes, but pretty sure that means the team doing profession balance will start using more split skills, not that the PVP team gets to make their own skills.

Jerus.4350:

Yes, but pretty sure that means the team doing profession balance will start using more split skills, not that the PVP team gets to make their own skills.

They don’t get to make their own skills but they nerf/change how skills act in pvp to make them more fair. Why can’t they do the same for WvW?

Triggered.1850:

Doesn’t PvP have separate skill changes though? I believe they announce it in a recent patch.

Well they said it’s more “feasible”, still not a complete split and they still need to make global changes. But there’s still a separate skills team that have the final say on class balance and skills changes. Which is just strange because you would think the PvP devs would know what classes need for PvP best, and the WvW devs would know what classes need in WvW the best.

I did notice they didn’t mention WvW so I guess this game-mode is really just the redheaded step child.

Josh Davis.6015:

The Lesh Prince recently developed some tech that makes skill-splitting more feasible than it was previously – you’ll see some PvP (and PvE) splits in the next balance update. It’s important to understand that changes will still need to be global, but we’ll definitely have a bit more flexibility moving forward.

Keeping parity between modes when possible is important to us – but when it’s not feasible we’ll look at splits.

PLZ anet do something about this and stop ignoring people on this forum..

Current boon share definitely needs to be looked at in WvW although it’s a difficult problem to resolve because so many things contribute to it. It might just be easier to increase the relative effectiveness of AoE boon strip effects for WvW only. Null Field, Well of Corruption, Mine Field/Throw Mine removing 2 boons per pulse. Maybe some of the traits, but would need to be careful.

Zero.4935:

Jerus.4350:

Yes, but pretty sure that means the team doing profession balance will start using more split skills, not that the PVP team gets to make their own skills.

They don’t get to make their own skills but they nerf/change how skills act in pvp to make them more fair. Why can’t they do the same for WvW?

Because WvW numbers are completely erratic.Some days you’ll be by yourself, others in a standard party of 5, maybe a 10-20 group later, and other days you’re in a full zerg/blob. It’s impossible to take into account all those changes in numbers and random variables. All they can really do is ‘bandaid’ things.

Such as if they feel conditions are too powerful in WvW, add a passive boon that cuts condi damage by 33%, that’s only on if you’re in WvW. Or if they feel that boon sharing is too much (it really is), install hardcaps on boon durations across the board for all modes. Such as a maximum of 10 seconds for Quickness, 20/25 for Resistance/Stability/Vigor, 2 minutes for Swiftness, 1 minute for Might/Fury/Regeneration, yadda yadda.

thread needed a bump

keep bumping until Anet sees this post!

I’m pretty sure they already saw and aren’t concerned about it.

bumping for Legion

I’m mesmer myself and I +1

Boon Stripping exists.

Have you noticed there is not one response from Anet with regards to this issue. The sooner Anet move WvW to the same system an PVP so they can balance it separately from PVE the better. watching one group atm of 20 with no skill just revs and and mesmers pressing 1 button to share an ever stacking number of boons, great for raids and PVE stuff but in competitive PVP which WvW… nah forget it bro

But over that way is a wall you’ll get more response to this than you will from Anet

MangoCrush.7819:

Have you noticed there is not one response from Anet with regards to this issue. The sooner Anet move WvW to the same system an PVP so they can balance it separately from PVE the better. watching one group atm of 20 with no skill just revs and and mesmers pressing 1 button to share an ever stacking number of boons, great for raids and PVE stuff but in competitive PVP which WvW… nah forget it bro

But over that way is a wall you’ll get more response to this than you will from Anet

We can continue to bump this thread until anet either locks it, deletes it, or best of all, actually comment on what they are going to do about this issue.

Does anet even care about WvW is the real question.

Zero.4935:

Jerus.4350:

Yes, but pretty sure that means the team doing profession balance will start using more split skills, not that the PVP team gets to make their own skills.

They don’t get to make their own skills but they nerf/change how skills act in pvp to make them more fair. Why can’t they do the same for WvW?

Because they don’t care about WvW. Not just the profession balance team (which has proven incompetence), but ANet as a company.

Recall our format lead was called to go make PvE content for the next expansion.

BUMP, for anet acknowledgement.

Keep the bumping!

Most of our problems happened with the very noticeable power creep that HoT brought. Whether it be boons ,condition ,or control effects.
I remember when Cursed Shore was hard before Sunshine Cove.Now its like brushing lint off.
I’m sure if a party went into Forsaken Thicket at the time of game opening nobody would last 5 seconds.
Anyways its had an unfortunate effect across the game especially WvW .
I know that sometimes people don’t like it when one goes a little of the main topic of the thread ,but it’s not as simple as one problem. It’s a cumulative problem. If the power creeping isn’t brought under control across the whole game It’s only going to get worse as new areas are introduced.

Mokk.2397:

I remember when Cursed Shore was hard

I don’t… And I’ve been playing since the beggining.

Rotteny.8743:

Mokk.2397:

I remember when Cursed Shore was hard

I don’t… And I’ve been playing since the beggining.

Cursed Shore, Ranger before the “pet takes no aggro” and “enemy amount” nerfs. It was pure hell…couldn’t take 3 steps without aggroing something, and your pet could and would aggro everything else.

Oh sorry, I didn’t played ranger back then.

Bumping this too. I defended boon share months ago despite not running it anymore but I’ve changed my tune. Give dwarf rite a 15 second cooldown and disable resistance stacking out of combat with legend swapping. This should deal with some of the issues without nerfing the pve side.

LordThroat.7890:

Boon Stripping exists.

Necros are the only class that can play boonstrip, and even with constant corrupts it’s hard to keep up with the constant boon reapplication.

MrFluffy.9307:

LordThroat.7890:

Boon Stripping exists.

Necros are the only class that can play boonstrip, and even with constant corrupts it’s hard to keep up with the constant boon reapplication.

Mesmers can boon strip too. Necros are far better at corrupting said boons. Nothing wrecks permaboon on a person worse than corrupt boon.

Mesmers don’t run Arcane Thievery in WvW and the boon removal on Shatter trait isn’t used by the boonshare builds. Null Field is also never used. While Corrupt Boon may be the best method to “wreck permaboon” it is so far very from efficient, or even effective at fully countering. Especially fighting out-manned.

On another note, pls senpai ANet, notice us.

RyuDragnier.9476:

MrFluffy.9307:

LordThroat.7890:

Boon Stripping exists.

Necros are the only class that can play boonstrip, and even with constant corrupts it’s hard to keep up with the constant boon reapplication.

Mesmers can boon strip too. Necros are far better at corrupting said boons. Nothing wrecks permaboon on a person worse than corrupt boon.

Maybe if it was 1v1 but in WvW, a few necs cannot out corrupt the nonstop boon dump.

Reverent ,Engineer,Mesmer ,Thief and Necro can remove ,steal or convert boons.Its more a matter of evolving play style in large groups .

The amount of boon hate required to viably counter boon share/spam does not exist. A comp built to counter boon share/spam can only focus down at best/100% efficiency 5 targets at once …and that’s only if you get lucky and take off both resistance and stability to lock them into wells/null field and somehow those aren’t instantly reapplied. During that the other 20 of them are still curb stomping and all of your side cooldowns have to come up to try again.

You could target the mesmers to stop the sharing but that does nothing to the rest of their party’s 30s+ of every boon. Some groups don’t even use mesmers but run everyone with boon duration so gl with that too.

The other thing is that a boon hate comp has big holes in it that will just get you shredded against a lot of other setups.

You’re better off at just getting better at spamming boons and managing cool downs than your enemies. Just watch a recent gvg video, it’s a mescaline salad of nonsense.

zedapoc.1493:

The amount of boon hate required to viably counter boon share/spam does not exist. A comp built to counter boon share/spam can only focus down at best/100% efficiency 5 targets at once …and that’s only if you get lucky and take off both resistance and stability to lock them into wells/null field and somehow those aren’t instantly reapplied. During that the other 20 of them are still curb stomping and all of your side cooldowns have to come up to try again.

You could target the mesmers to stop the sharing but that does nothing to the rest of their party’s 30s+ of every boon. Some groups don’t even use mesmers but run everyone with boon duration so gl with that too.

The other thing is that a boon hate comp has big holes in it that will just get you shredded against a lot of other setups.

You’re better off at just getting better at spamming boons and managing cool downs than your enemies. Just watch a recent gvg video, it’s a mescaline salad of nonsense.

I agree with that. In the past, boons were much easier to counter because there wasn’t a cap on skills like null field that could strip a large amount of boons.

Now that this idea has marinated a bit, can Anet please let us know if anyone has been assigned to do the legwork?

I still don’t get why corrupt boon doesn’t apply he condi equivalent equal to the duration left on the boon they have. Wouldn’t that solve the boon meta, unfortunately bringing back the more cancerous condi meta?

Hexinx.1872:

I still don’t get why corrupt boon doesn’t apply he condi equivalent equal to the duration left on the boon they have. Wouldn’t that solve the boon meta, unfortunately bringing back the more cancerous condi meta?

Not really because there is soooooo much cleanse, it’s just silly.

Learn to play. I’ve run into plenty of boonshare groups and demolished them. This topic is so dumb. So many people have tried telling you guys how to counter it, and y’all just don’t listen. You must not be part of any organized WvW guild and just expect Anet to change the game to the play style that you want rather than adapting to the particular enemy you’re facing.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Learn to play. I’ve run into plenty of boonshare groups and demolished them. This topic is so dumb. So many people have tried telling you guys how to counter it, and y’all just don’t listen. You must not be part of any organized WvW guild and just expect Anet to change the game to the play style that you want rather than adapting to the particular enemy you’re facing.

Judging from your server, I’m going to guess your counter is running over the boonshare group with a 50+ man blob – wow, that’s incredible. Thirty seconds of quickness with constant reapplication is not a “learn to play” or a “play style adaption” issue, it’s a broken game mechanic in large scale PvP. There’s a reason gvg guilds had a gentleman’s agreement to not pre-stack quickness before rounds last year; but I suppose all those bad players just didn’t understand the play style either.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Learn to play. I’ve run into plenty of boonshare groups and demolished them. This topic is so dumb. So many people have tried telling you guys how to counter it, and y’all just don’t listen. You must not be part of any organized WvW guild and just expect Anet to change the game to the play style that you want rather than adapting to the particular enemy you’re facing.

Hot kitten , I wish I had a map queue of my own with a few pugs running boon sharing to counter other smaller groups running boon sharing, why didn’t I think about that? I should be complaining about the lack of pugs not boons.

Gratuitous Bump

Please take the time to possibly perhaps look into this maybe. For the good of the last of us.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter, your help is greatly appreciated.

Keep it alive!

I can agree a little that many boons are a bit too easy to stack in high numbers/durations and then share them. But honestly guys/gals, it’s not really that hard to counter it or at least neuter it enough that it’s not that strong. There’s quite a bit of boon strip, corruption and steal. Through traits, weapon sigils, and on a few profession’s skill bars. Many of them on low CD and AOE in some cases. Be like a Marine and adapt and overcome. If there were very few ways to throw out Boon hate in the game, I’d possibly be in here whining with you, but that’s not the case tbh.

Like a few others and myself say all the time, if you want something important to be seen by Anet devs, not just forum moderators make your thread on Reddit. It’ll be seen by more people all around, way more than here on the Carebear forums. And if it gets enough views and comments, you could get a dev to make an appearance. Especially if you can put your Thread together nice without exaggerating and that kind of thing. That never helps get your point across. Calling them in here and getting a post with a real answer to your problem is less likely than getting a Pre drop.

+1