Guild Wars 2

This is total bullkitten. As game designers you perfectly know that this is seriously flawed design, especially when it comes to WvW. Who the hell created rally, making what supposed to epic armies colliding now depending on tagging as many enemies a possible with AoEs during engagements?

The current status of Rally is dismal. You can have a thief or any class for that matter that can do decent damage while downed, attack some random basilisk while being downed, kill it and get revived at random, or you can have someone like an elementalist, tagging with abandon everyone during zerg collision and have practically infinite lives due to the massive fights being lopsided due to massive rallies just from one death. This also eliminates the skill dependency, and leans towards AoE abilities and attacks.

Just one player can revive entire squads of enemies just because someone got killed who either wasn’t listening commanders or simply had bad luck, being either focus fired or having no PTV gear.

WvW shouldn’t be about who gets to kill the first downed for rally or tagging as many targets with your class’ AoEs, but about skillfull tactical engagements and epic fights.

Please Anet get rid of Rally from the current If you tagged an enemy and he/she was killed you get revived if you got exp and/or loot from them to actually have to be manually revived from the downed position.

This will force players to more be tactical and not join zergs merely for the precious lootbags or simply join mindless zerg, but use some sort of military tactics.

This is completely old and outdated system that should of been got ridden of long, long time ago.

Yeah, i also would like to note that healing skill (6) is unbalanced and gamebreaking. There are only guardians who should have direct selfheal and rangers with regenerations.
Really stupid, if you deal damage to ppl and they ALL can heal by pressing one button

No

/15characters

It is not really a flawed design. It is a rather good design, since it adds (rather than remove that you seems to think) tactics to combat.
If they remove rally the fights will simply be: “Down the enemy asap and don’t bother with your own people until the fight is over”.

Rich.1528:

Yeah, i also would like to note that healing skill (6) is unbalanced and gamebreaking. There are only guardians who should have direct selfheal and rangers with regenerations.
Really stupid, if you deal damage to ppl and they ALL can heal by pressing one button

Interesting that someone with 150k wvw kills would say that. I don’t really agree because if you’re not ranger or guardian, your healing tends to be weak (unless you use heLing power).

Never mind, just nonsense like this topic

Rally shouldn’t be removed completely, as it is meant to be a compensation for no pure healing classes in the game. But it should definitely be revised.

For starters, you should not be able to rally from NPC deaths in WvW. Also, you should not be able to revive defeated players while in combat. If they are just downed, you can revive while in combat. But once they are completely defeated, you need to be out of combat.

Also, for rallies off other players…only one person should be able to rally from one other player’s defeat. Whatever downed player did the most damage to the defeated player, that is the only person to rally. I like the mechanic of rallying from an opponent’s defeat, but it is completely ridiculous when 10 people rally from one person.

Only time rally is broken imo is while zerging/blobbing

is there “aoe limit” to rally? like 5?

Using warbanners in GvG seems like cheating.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

is there “aoe limit” to rally? like 5?

LOL good question, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t!

katniss.6735:

Using warbanners in GvG seems like cheating.

Ghost tonics bro, they break gvg.

I support the idea to remove rally from WvW. People would still have their down abilities but would have to be rezzed by other people.
Another option would be that after rally or being rezzed you have 10% life and not half life. That would mean that rezzing in AoE is almost impossible which would be a good thing to bring an end to zerg vs zerg fights I guess.

wtf is wrong with you? stop talking like anet killed your puppy and L2finish

There isn’t a limit on rallies off of a single person afaik.

Rallying off of a moa or whatever is bullkitten (yes I’ve done it too…)

Yes people can rally far too many times in WvW.

All of this rubbish mentioned in here (as well as no DR on the number of people healing you) just supports zerging and baddies.

It’s not that I can’t and don’t deal with it… I just find it to be a very bad system that pushes the gameplay even more into the mindless blob tatics. I don’t see why you would put in systems which clearly help a larger force more… when a larger force already has the number advantage… and then state multiple times that you don’t like that the game has become too zerg happy (looks @ devs).

Hopefully the upcoming changes that we’ve been promised will help these issues.

Yes! Please get rid of rally if not then get rid of downstate altogether.

If this is a serious problem, then is better to suggest tweaking this…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_penalty
… in wvw play.

Winning the rally war in a tough fight is a significant part of skilled group play. You have to recognize who can be stomped to rally allies and which allies need immediate assistance to avoid being stomped and rallying enemies vs. who can be left down to wait for a rally.

Your problem is that you’re running in a disorganized zerg where none of your team mates consider things from a tactical perspective. Downed state and rally provide another level of gameplay that has to be considered in team fights.

Still, there should be a cap on how many can rally from one kill. Five is probably good for WvW and one for sPvP.

Rally is fine. In fact, rally should be stronger since you’re almost dead and you’re on your last breath so you need to make it count. Rally needs a buff in WvW especially if you are fighting mega-blobs.

Redfeather.6401:

If this is a serious problem, then is better to suggest tweaking this…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_penalty
… in wvw play.

That would work as far as helping the too many rallies problem. It still wouldn’t fix the rally off of random moa stuff… or the fact that in larger battles the rally system favors the side with the greater numbers (although they would be easier to take down again, it would still favor the larger numbers).

Rally as a concept is fine, but it needs some serious tuning for WvW, as most have suggested rallying off mobs is just dumb, same with 7 people rallying off 1 stomp.

And it really does tilt the fight in favour of numbers, person goes down, 3 people rush in and try and get him up, good luck standing still for the time needed to stomp the target vs larger numbers. You are either going to get bursted down, he will get rezzed before your stomp goes off or you will be CC’d. There should be some serious penalties when u get up from a rally, therez any number of ways you can go about implementing this, 1/2 damage for 20 seconds and 1/2 life for 20 seconds. Just a debuff to say hey ‘buddy you just got downed, chill a sec before returning to the fray’. Or he needs to be out of combat for 10 seconds for his debuff to go away, have all his abilities and weapon skills on cooldown for 20 seconds(but he can still kite away)whatever.

The mechanic as it stands is way too forgiving and vs larger numbers makes it almost impossible to get kills off despite with good co-ordination dropping targets. This is sytemic from 1v3 to 30v100. Having someone get up from a rally and have complete access to all his skills and 100% damage capacity is way too forgiving.

It shouldnt be removed, but some changes should imo be made.

-Raise the cap needed before someone can Rally on a kill.

Right now its just so easy to rally on a kill. The bar is set so low a single attack is seemingly all it takes for that target to become a Rally on kill.

-Limit how many players can Rally from a single target.

One player or NPC dying, and half a zerg gets back on their feet. With significant health regained this quickly tips the balance of a fight in 1 sides favor, that continues to snowball into a chain of Rallies. And since a lot of the downed on 1 side got back up, the downed on the other got nothing to Rally from themselves.

-When a player is being Finished (the stomp animation) he should not be able to Rally from a kill.

When someone goes down, and someone else is taking the time to cast the Finishing move the downed shouldnt halfway through Rally because some random npc or player he once sneezed on died.
It takes effort and leaves you vulnerable to finish someone off. If you want to not die in that situation, you’re allies need to help you, not zerg harder and try and get a kill before you get stomped.

-Reduce scaling of multiple players rezzing.

Its all to easy for several players to try and rez someone who is downed, and itll take no time at all to get them back up. Now i got no problem with helping allies Rally. But the speed at which it can happen when several people do this at the same time is just a tad to fast.

-Dead players have a degenerating revive bar.

If a Revive of a fully dead player is interupted (with a short grace period) it should not be the case that you can just pick up where you left off. Several reasons for this, one being stealth rezzing downed players inside enemy keeps. Or dead players who died close to walls, killed by the defenders.

-Balance Downed States.

Some professions get abilities while downed that are just miles beter then other professions. No contest, no argument, just vastly superior. An allround big improvement.
Elementalist stand out as one of the worst, who can recklessly throw away his life when near a tower/keep because he can just walk right back inside.
But Mesmer and Thief are also far beyond Rangers and Guardians, who in their turn are far better then Engineer/Warrior/Necro.

Chopps.5047:

No

/15characters

Some people need the system to carry them like this guy.

Sorry to the OP..but not everyone is below average or better..lotsa baddies in this game.

Good luck with ESO..I’m sure they will not have the silly system in.

Personal heals are the compensation for no dedicated healing classes, not downed state. Downed state was an attempt to differentiate GW2 combat from WOW et al but it backfired – GW2 PVP flopped badly.

Personally, I think rallying is borderline gamebreaking in PVP – it introduces a random element and kills skill. Above the 5v5 level, it gets pretty farcical… the rally mechanic wasn’t thought through at all.

Now, is it a good design that people can rez in the middle of sustained AOE damage? Mmm.

I think to get a rally should require you personally to deal at least 50% of the dmg to the target you rally off.

Its a sad reflection on the game that guilds will run without a commander pin just to prevent underlevels/inexperienced , or even in some cases enemy spys planted on your server from trailing the blob and rallying enemies.

Some people have adapted to the rally system, others complain about it. There’s a reason our commanders are constantly reminding people to “double down” the enemy. You get them down, you finish them off. If they rally on a cricket they’re still weakened, finish the job and save the tears for something worthwhile. Like puppies and kittens hugging.

If they remove it, I want the ability to cast illusion rogue some other way.

There’s nothing wrong with the downed state, but there is plenty wrong with the rally criteria; down 15 people to see them all get up because they stomped one (or killed a boar) feels broken; you’ve already done the hard work and out-played them.

I don’t see why it can’t simply be “stomp one, res one”. So if a guy is stomped the ally in a downed state that did the most damage to that guy gets a rally.

That would play into strategy (“Stomp that ele, I can res from that”) and would perhaps remove the situations of mindless AoE spamming to tag your rally sources.

gennyt.3428:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

is there “aoe limit” to rally? like 5?

LOL good question, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t!

i just put it in the form of a question so it doesn’t get moved to suggestions forum…

Rally doesn’t have to go anywhere.
I’m not saying the implementation is perfect, some tweaks could always help.

If you don’t want to learn to use the game mechanics of the game you’re playing, then you might have to expect that they get used against you.

Rally should be more in line to help the smaller groups. An example would be xx number of people in xxx radius gives a debuff/removal of rally feature. This would remove a large safety net from blobs. Anyone running a small tactical group vs much larger numbers knows that you rarely have time to stomp before the sheer damage kills you, you can never stand still that long. And it’s very discouraging to see half a Zerg rallying by picking off your numbers 1 by 1

Yeah, rally needs to go. I don’t see how anyone can defend it the way it is now.

Most people are against downed state in general as is. We’ll see if Anet will do something about it. IMO, rally state is fine in PvE, but in WvW it has no place.

they should make a differeance in skills like was in GW1.

Skills for WvW
Skills for PvE
Skills for PvP

Right now thier balance patches on sPvP making chaos on WvW.

Rally memory should be a lot shorter in WvW. There’s nothing more infuriating than starting a 1v1 fight on the side of a zerg that ends 20s later, you are about to down the guy and then he suddenly goes up for whatever reason.

The players/mobs he damaged more than 5s ago shouldn’t count for rally.

Aside from rallying from NPCs, my biggest beef with rallies is that it punishes downing people too quickly. Why should somebody be restored to 50% health just because I downed them immediately before somebody on my team died, but if I killed him 1/2 second slower, he gets no benefit? Seems like bad design to me.

krippler.9826:

Aside from rallying from NPCs, my biggest beef with rallies is that it punishes downing people too quickly. Why should somebody be restored to 50% health just because I downed them immediately before somebody on my team died, but if I killed him 1/2 second slower, he gets no benefit? Seems like bad design to me.

Because that means you have to pay attention to the fight rather than just down people as fast as possible?

lordkrall.7241:

krippler.9826:

Aside from rallying from NPCs, my biggest beef with rallies is that it punishes downing people too quickly. Why should somebody be restored to 50% health just because I downed them immediately before somebody on my team died, but if I killed him 1/2 second slower, he gets no benefit? Seems like bad design to me.

Because that means you have to pay attention to the fight rather than just down people as fast as possible?

You can call it tactical all you want, but its just a bad mechanic. Somebody that is condition heavy is not going to be able to time when somebody is going to go down, so it basically becomes a game of chance.

krippler.9826:

You can call it tactical all you want, but its just a bad mechanic. Somebody that is condition heavy is not going to be able to time when somebody is going to go down, so it basically becomes a game of chance.

Then the condition heavy player simply isn’t good enough.
If you know what you are doing, you can estimate quite well when an enemy might go down.

Another thing to keep in mind is that looking at the fight also means checking if there are other enemies that are downed rather than just the one you are targeting, or if your side have downed players that needs rezzing and so on.

Rally is a good mechanic. It slows down the game’s pace and prevents it from being a race to instagib. It also makes Death less frustrating, since even when you get downed there are still things you can do.

The alternative would be to make everyone tankier, and that would suck for different reasons.

rally is a good game mechanic, successfully implemented by ANET.

so, no.. it is good as it is.. learn to play……

rebelmonkey.4860:

This is completely old and outdated system that should of been got ridden of long, long time ago.

I just like this sentence. Somehow this is an archaic system even though it’s completely unique to Guild Wars 2, a 9 month old game.

lordkrall.7241:

krippler.9826:

You can call it tactical all you want, but its just a bad mechanic. Somebody that is condition heavy is not going to be able to time when somebody is going to go down, so it basically becomes a game of chance.

Then the condition heavy player simply isn’t good enough.
If you know what you are doing, you can estimate quite well when an enemy might go down.

Another thing to keep in mind is that looking at the fight also means checking if there are other enemies that are downed rather than just the one you are targeting, or if your side have downed players that needs rezzing and so on.

It’s ridiculously easy to say someone “simply isn’t good enough” but the reality is that when you are dealing with conditions, a single condition or two isn’t going to cut it. You have to load somebody with them to do any meaningful amount of damage. The problem is that they work like a train. They are slow to build up but once they get going, you can’t stop them. You can’t just take off all the conditions you threw on somebody because “Oh somebody on my team is about to die!” Like I said, it becomes a game of chance whether you down them too quickly or not; it is not a L2P issue.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Rally is a good mechanic. It slows down the game’s pace and prevents it from being a race to instagib. It also makes Death less frustrating, since even when you get downed there are still things you can do.

The alternative would be to make everyone tankier, and that would suck for different reasons.

I agree there is something to be said about what the rally system adds to the game as far as you still being able to fight your way back into a fight. I just think the difference between going down and then rallying to 50% health and going down 1/2 second later and receiving zero benefit is too much.

In general, I think that rallying is fine. But I think that removing the ability to rally against an outmanned enemy would help keep the game a little more balanced. (Although this may be difficult to implement)

Not to argue with a rally mechanics being unbalanced on WvW, just to set some numbers straight:

you can have someone like an elementalist, tagging with abandon everyone during zerg collision and have practically infinite lives

5 lives is not “infinite”. 60 secs for downed penalty is a lot for intense fight. I agree, 5 is still a lot, just not infinite. And each time you stand up with less and less HP.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death_penalty

krippler.9826:

Why should somebody be restored to 50% health

It’s 25%, not 50.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

The rally mechanic and the AoE limit is just a plus for zergs – and zergs is what have destroyed this game. There’s almost never any tactics in a zerg, unless following the commander and pressing 1 is a tactic… It should be able for a small well coordinated group to defeat a Zerg unless they spread out. Now they can just clunk together and press 1 and the enemy AoE will only hit five of them – the other people just press one and revive those that get downed. A really good display of skill, right. The only one that need to have half a brain is the commander (which actually must think with some skill).

Anet should find a way for small groups to have any chance against a zerg. In WvW you either have to stealth all the time or have insane amounts of armor if you’re going to do anything but zerging, because sooner or later the zerg will drop by and completely wipe you and your friends…

The ultimate solution to this is remove aoe limit and activate friendly fire then there would be less zerging and more tactics.
I don’t see how removing the rally system make any difference other than killing players even faster.

Downed state would be better if players had to wait until they were out of combat before reviving. This way those want downed state get to keep it, and those who are against it, won’t be affected by people being veiled and power revived all over the place. People can be revived, they basically just have to wait until after the battle is over. That is if their team wins.

Win win situation

The rally system is fine ( admit that some classes are having much better downed skills) Maybe adept your tactic a bit. With our guildgroup of 20-25 people we are running back to get the downed dead, also ranged is focussing on downed players. Without the rally we wouldn’t need ranged players because it is safer to run stacked ( buffs, heals).
I admit it is a problem fighting big zergs and blobs but that is another discussion (i would love measurements against blobbing)

Keep it in, I love that the one time my enemy manages to kill me I rally of a moa bird lol.