Guild Wars 2

-10% Crit Damage
+Extra Sigil on 2h

Buff to zerker meta imo.

Julie Yann.5379:

From what I gather, they will be nomalizing the crit damage between the armor and trinkets. Right now you get more crit damage out of trinkets than the armor. If ferocity is suppose to even this out, crit damage trinkets will taking a bigger hit than crit damage armor. Builds with mixed there gear (knights/PVT) with zerker trinkets to make up for the lack of crit damage will be getting more than a 10% damage nerf.

If my math is correct and the estimation on 13 ferocity equaling 1 crit damage, armor will actually be receiving a 1.3% buff while trinkets are receiving an 8% nerf. For people that run zerker armor and non-crit trinkets, this is a very good change.

It’s crazy and insulting that they make this BIG change solely due to PvE concerns.
This is a first one, and a dangerous precedence.
Zerker in PvP (meaning sPvP and WvW) was mostly perfectly fine. As OP observed, this not only invalidates zerker but also the entire Power stat/gameplay.

It’s time for a separation between PvP and PvE. They could fix so much with that.

This overreacting to Ferocity is so kitten . It amounts to a max of -10% crit dmg if you were running a full set of Zerker gear. Each Zerker piece will have less than -1% crit dmg difference after the conversion. So if you were only running partial Zerker, then it will be less than -10% for you.

Plus, with the sigil and rune changes, it may even out or actually be higher DPS for power builds. Being able to use both sigils of Fire and Air at the same time is a pretty good. And 2 sigils on 2 handers is a big deal too.

Overall, people just like to cry when their is any nerf, even something as miniscule as this. Unfortunately, the whiners sometimes leave the game, and that means less bags for me in the end…

Plus they want to make crit proc activate 100% of the time, so that "30% Chance on Critical: Trigger a Flame Blast for AoE Damage " will become “on Critical: Trigger a Flame Blast for AoE Damage”.
I totally see my GS zerker warrior putting that Sigil of Fire in the second slot.

Or imagine a combination of Sigil of Frailty and Sigil of Air both triggering at the same time your GS crits. Or oh-so-many other combinations that will emerge.

My crit-speced Ranger will cause bleed on crit thanks to the trait that now will trigger 100% of the time.

Etc.

Less direct critical damage? Yes. But more ways to increase DPS.

Bear on the job.6273:

This overreacting to Ferocity is so kitten . It amounts to a max of -10% crit dmg if you were running a full set of Zerker gear. Each Zerker piece will have less than -1% crit dmg difference after the conversion. So if you were only running partial Zerker, then it will be less than -10% for you.

Plus, with the sigil and rune changes, it may even out or actually be higher DPS for power builds. Being able to use both sigils of Fire and Air at the same time is a pretty good. And 2 sigils on 2 handers is a big deal too.

Overall, people just like to cry when their is any nerf, even something as miniscule as this. Unfortunately, the whiners sometimes leave the game, and that means less bags for me in the end…

Not just being able to use Flame and Air, but Energy and Flame, and Energy and Air, and two sigils in a two-handed weapon. The possibilities just got much more varied, and may fairly easily compensate for the damage reduction.

Right now, I’m running Energy/Force and Energy. Energy/Flame and Energy/Air might be more than a 10% increase in damage. At the very least, the loss is almost trivial in a PvP situation, where sustained DPS is much less important than, you know, playing well.

Fluffball.8307:

Stand The Wall.6987:

You mean 5 “roamers” versus 1 “blobling”?
I never get annoyed if it really is a 1v1 when I’m running back to my guild group of ~25, but its usually 3-10 v me. Its really boring and pathetic.

Now that I know you don’t like it, next time I’ll let you get back to taking my garrison unhindered. You should have said something earlier.

OP Tell that to the theif that killed me (warrior in full Knights gear) in 3-4 hits.

Why are people complaining about these miniscule nerfs? Try other games like AoC or D3 where they nerf your damage by half…

hellsmachine.4085:

OP Tell that to the theif that killed me (warrior in full Knights gear) in 3-4 hits.

Why are people complaining about these miniscule nerfs? Try other games like AoC or D3 where they nerf your damage by half…

That thief can kill you after that nerf. This is not about his gear or yours. If you let him to kill you in 3-4 hits don’t blame his class or gear.

Newbkakes.4971:

This stream… This whole game is just going over to condi.

In what world?

hellsmachine.4085:

OP Tell that to the theif that killed me (warrior in full Knights gear) in 3-4 hits.

Why are people complaining about these miniscule nerfs? Try other games like AoC or D3 where they nerf your damage by half…

There are some things, which give me the giggles, when I am playing thief. One of them is the “tanky dude”.
You can be as tanky and sturdy, as you want, as long as your attacks barely make my spine tingle, I can just keep piling up those high damage attacks, utilizing my valk+bers combination to its fullest.
Before coming to gw2, I used to play Dota2 quite a lot. Dota2 sports a 5v5 pvp’ish sort of setup with a lot of strategy involved, but let’s get straight to the point: Tanks, which stack up hitpoints, armor and even spell resistance, for all I care, are useless in that game. If you want to tank, first improve your damage output and then get tanky gear. If you don’t pose a threat, you will either be ignored and left for later or the enemy will walk right up into your face and keep hitting you, till you hit the floor. The same applies to guild wars 2.
If you don’t pose a threat, anything and everything can kill you. There might be some need for poison to actually do the trick, if you got loads of heal, but as long as you barely manage to scratch my character, I can just keep autoattacking and backstabbing you, till you are below the heartseeker treshold and then make you pop.
There is no secret involved. If you have no means to kill me, but I can kill you, given enough time, why should I stop trying to kill you, just because I can’t kill you in one hit?
I’d say, get rid of some of those knight pieces. Having that much armor is overkill anyway. Throw in valkyrie. This has 3 benefits. First, it improves your vitality, which is important to survive burst attacks and conditions, second, it has power as main stat, instead of minor, which makes you hit harder, and third, it gives you critical damage, to actually make use of all that precision, the knight gear provides.
Actually, full knight is rather bad in terms of defending against a raw backstab build, or any physical burst build, for that matter. You may reduce the incoming damage by a lot, but you still don’t have any substantional health pool to fall back on. A thief stacked full damage can just chew through that armor and eat away at your tiny health pool. I get the thought behind reducing physical damage, while retaining a small health pool, so the healing signet and adrenal healing can heal for maximum efficiency. That may work, if you are planning on tanking a constant flow of physical damage, but as soon, as that physical damage is heavily front loaded, your heal just can’t keep up.

sephiroth.4217:

How much would this effect a hybrid build?

Say you’re a mesmer and your stats are;

Attack: 2947
Crit chance: 42% no fury
Condition: 1401
Crit damage: 71%
No might.

How effective would the build still be taking into account that if someone has too much condi removal I usually have to rely on my zerk weapons and side of the build to effectively bring someone down.

I think you’ll see your build move to

Attack: 2947
Crit chance: 42% no fury
Condition: 1401
Crit damage: 50%
No might.

That’s all.

It was already proven soon after launch that in long-term DPS (greater than 5 sec sustained damage output) that high condition damage was already greater than crit heavy output.
This will just push small scale combat more and more towards condition damage.

I don’t know how this will affect WvW meta, but since I haven’t seen any news of buffing siege bunker; I assume this makes siege even more powerful.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

I assume that ferocity mostly affects trinket’s crazily high critical damage values.

What is going to happen to celestial gear, though?

Chris.3290:

It was already proven soon after launch that in long-term DPS (greater than 5 sec sustained damage output) that high condition damage was already greater than crit heavy output.
This will just push small scale combat more and more towards condition damage.

Do you have a link to a thread or text snippet where they prove that? I’m curious to see what was said about it. I’m skeptical that it took all the variables into account.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Chris.3290:

It was already proven soon after launch that in long-term DPS (greater than 5 sec sustained damage output) that high condition damage was already greater than crit heavy output.
This will just push small scale combat more and more towards condition damage.

Do you have a link to a thread or text snippet where they prove that? I’m curious to see what was said about it. I’m skeptical that it took all the variables into account.

He doesn’t, because it’s wrong. Look at every boss in the game that dies faster to Zerk than any Condi setup. Hell, having even ONE Condi player in your party is noticeable. Having 5 is a joke.

As a Mesmer, this is funny because there was so little incentive to go Power/Crit already. I’d uninstall but I’ve already reduced my play time to like 8 hours a week, usually when I wake up at bizarre hours with nothing to do. ANet, what to heck?

Reduce condition damage scaling by 10%, problem solved?

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

Hi Josh,

Could you please tell us how the team is going to balance Ferocity points on Celestial armor set ?

Thank you.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

How about dire gear. In PVT you can’t deal good damage but stay tanky. You need precision and critical damage for good amount of damage. However people can reach massive condition damage and still stay tanky with dire. I know because I have that gear. In berserker vs dire comparison dire has the advantage in my opininon (WvW).

If idea is just bring it closer to other gears, start with dire. I’m ready to give up my dire gear. But condition damage is not important for PVE. People farm low AI mobs/bosses with berserker gear in dungeons. But increase their AI is a harder solution. So solution is nerf the berserker. Sorry but this is the reality in my opinion, this is not about WvW. In WvW berserker vs dire duel, berserker user need to be more skilled than dire user for win the fight. In generally berserker gear requires more skill for survive in WvW. Also this nerf will affect mainly kinght/cavalier/berserker mixed DPS builds. These builds will become more useless. Sorry for bad English.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

And you completely fail to realize sigils and runes will buff conditions as well. Perplexity will always bethe best rune set by far unless you nerf it. Just because crit damage allocation is “different” doesn’t mean it should be kittening nerfed. There better be some major kitteng buffs to condi removal or nerfs to condi application.

I do like the idea of 2 sigils on 2 handed weapons so I’ll reserve comment on whether it’s an overall damage nerf or not. It could very well turn out to be a buff with the right sigils. For me personally, I swapped out by fire sigil for the 5% damage a while ago. I really didn’t want to do it because I loved that AoE fire, but now that we can have 2 sigils on 2H weapons, that fire will look mighty nice again.

If it does actually turn out to be an all out damage nerf, well I’m sure people would be a tad miffed if per say, their tanky build took a 10% hit in toughness or healing, or condition heroes took a 10% hit in condition damage. Realistically, if it turns out to be a damage nerf, then they should reduce the effectiveness by toughness, healing, and condition damage by the same amount to compensate for it.

Direct damages are not gonna be totally useless, unless they change the way conditions stack…
Direct damages is still going to be zerg and PvE king,
While condis will be better in small scale – given the builds condi players face are not condition cleanse heavy.

I find it balances up nicely…

Why do direct damages dealers want to be the best in all game modes?

Conditions dealers need life and survivability, since they deal damage over time… they need the time thoughness and vitality buys them to hurt the other player/the mobs…

If conditions was to be the new meta, we would start seeing “LFG – conditions dealers only”… whilst it is more “LFG – zerk – no condis – experienced”.

Bosses that return direct damages all the time and really hurt doing so are few while I faced a few champions that returned all condis damage – and that hurted 10 times the basic condition (like the drake in Arah – don’t go condis on it)…

I agree thay should have made the change before getting out ascended to be crafted – and that, as such, they should allow people that have crit damage in their set, to change it if they whish…

But, really, direct damage dealers are still gonna be number one in most game types… so why all those complains?
Condis was already somewhat better in small group than in PVE/ WvW Bus, situation is not changing for a very low decrease in crit damages, which is just bringing those damage to the point is should have been in the first place…

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Its good Necro’s have runes and sigils.

KeeZee.7312:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Its good Necro’s have runes and sigils.

I’m afraid to even respond to this, but what could you possibly mean?

Cogbyrn.7283:

KeeZee.7312:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Its good Necro’s have runes and sigils.

I’m afraid to even respond to this, but what could you possibly mean?

He means to say that necros will also be benefiting from the new redesign of runes and sigils, and the benefit isn’t exclusive to power builds which Josh was saying would balance out with condition builds because of the new rework, although he did say that there were “other changes” coming in the Feature Patch, so I wouldn’t make too many judgements yet.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Cogbyrn.7283:

KeeZee.7312:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Its good Necro’s have runes and sigils.

I’m afraid to even respond to this, but what could you possibly mean?

He means to say that necros will also be benefiting from the new redesign of runes and sigils, and the benefit isn’t exclusive to power builds which Josh was saying would balance out with condition builds because of the new rework, although he did say that there were “other changes” coming in the Feature Patch, so I wouldn’t make too many judgements yet.

I want to believe that, but this same person said the following on a thread in the Necro sub-forum:

“Get your sigils and runes ready Necros………oh ya…..we don’t have those.
No balance for you……………just nerfs.”

So.

As if Necros aren’t overpowered and need a nerf anyway.

Darek.1836:

As if Necros aren’t overpowered and need a nerf anyway.

See, I’ve started thinking my Powermancer is actually a bit on the too strong side while solo roaming, even if it has a difficult time with things like stealth-spamming Thieves (namely because of the blind projectile on Black Powder). However, I’m in a constant state of confusion, because all I see on the Necro forums is everyone seeming to think the class is in a terrible, useless state.

It’s a strange feel. Either way, I’m not concerned about this change, even if it might impact me more since my crit in DS is around 75%. I’m guessing it’s a 10% damage reduction from a DPS perspective normally geared with Zerker, which I believe puts you around 50% crit. At 75% crit, I’ll expect roughly 15% damage reduction while in DS-ish (not counting sigil benefits that I’ll start getting), which means instead of 4k-5k crits, it’ll be 3.4k – 4.25k crits. Instead of a roughly 8k burst at <50% with Chill of Death, I’m looking at potentially 6.8k total. I’m OK with that, because when you dodge the first Life Blast, there’s another one behind it. Then another one. Then another one.

For those who used crit damage from accessories to make a tankier build also put out damage, now you’ll have to weigh the benefits of being tanky vs. actually doing damage. For some reason, I don’t even feel sorry.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

This does not apply to celestial and prima facie the proposed changes look like making that set completely unviable even for those classes that it suits. Arenanet must look at this.

Bear on the job.6273:

This overreacting to Ferocity is so kitten . It amounts to a max of -10% crit dmg if you were running a full set of Zerker gear. Each Zerker piece will have less than -1% crit dmg difference after the conversion. So if you were only running partial Zerker, then it will be less than -10% for you.

Plus, with the sigil and rune changes, it may even out or actually be higher DPS for power builds. Being able to use both sigils of Fire and Air at the same time is a pretty good. And 2 sigils on 2 handers is a big deal too.

Overall, people just like to cry when their is any nerf, even something as miniscule as this. Unfortunately, the whiners sometimes leave the game, and that means less bags for me in the end…

No, actually they said a 10% damage reduction for full zerk and since not all your damage comes from crit dam% (quite a bit less than pow and pre) that means the actual nerf to crit dam % is quite a bit higher than 10%.

i run pvt powermancer with zerker/cavaliers weapons and trinks. this hits me harder than most.

Lightsbane.9012:

i run pvt powermancer with zerker/cavaliers weapons and trinks. this hits me harder than most.

Well at least you can slap a force sigil in your new wep slot and get most of it back, no so for theifs, we are just SOL as usual.

Edit: Just saw the “mancer” yea you are SOL as well. Not so for glory boy warriors though eh?

Hey, this seems to be the first real dev comment since early december here. Perhaps someone will drop and comment on one of the Season 1-threads as well?

hellsmachine.4085:

OP Tell that to the theif that killed me (warrior in full Knights gear) in 3-4 hits.

Why are people complaining about these miniscule nerfs? Try other games like AoC or D3 where they nerf your damage by half…

Lmao, well, my post seems to have already been posted.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Before you guys “fix” critical damage, why not fix condition damage, which is in a far worse place:

• Maximum Stacks prevent it from being too useful against bosses
• it’s unbalanced against players as you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit).

The fact that WvW is in a big Condi meta is proof enough that something needs to be fixed here. Condition needs more fixing than Critical Damage.

" you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit)"

I do not have hard numbers.
But it seems obvious to me that someone that deals damage over time needs tools to survive over time.

Lets say someone takes twice as long killing a mob in conditions as it takes someone in berserkers…
Even in full dire, one does not reach twice the health and toughness as a zerker has…

So yeah, seems all right, given that in most situations direct damages are preferred to conditions…

Mochann.5298:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Before you guys “fix” critical damage, why not fix condition damage, which is in a far worse place:

• Maximum Stacks prevent it from being too useful against bosses
• it’s unbalanced against players as you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit).

The fact that WvW is in a big Condi meta is proof enough that something needs to be fixed here. Condition needs more fixing than Critical Damage.

Maybe you should look up what the word “fact” means, because it doesnt mean what you seem to think it means.

Condition damage-builds do not rely just on 1 stat. This is flat out wrong, an idea spread around by people who either do not know what they are talking about or people who are simply lying.
If this was true then we’d see pure Dire builds drop someone just as fast as a pure berserker. Which doesnt happen, infact a pure Rampager (the glasscannon equivalent for cond. damage) cannot drop someone as fast as a berserker.

Also, this whole “Condition Meta” is a gross exegeration. The vast majority of the builds used in WvW rely on “good old fashion” direct-damage.
And the most problematic builds and balance-offenders are, with one exception that is already staring down the barrel of the nerfgun, all based on dealing direct-damage.

Terrahero.9358:

Mochann.5298:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Before you guys “fix” critical damage, why not fix condition damage, which is in a far worse place:

• Maximum Stacks prevent it from being too useful against bosses
• it’s unbalanced against players as you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit).

The fact that WvW is in a big Condi meta is proof enough that something needs to be fixed here. Condition needs more fixing than Critical Damage.

Maybe you should look up what the word “fact” means, because it doesnt mean what you seem to think it means.

Condition damage-builds do not rely just on 1 stat. This is flat out wrong, an idea spread around by people who either do not know what they are talking about or people who are simply lying.
If this was true then we’d see pure Dire builds drop someone just as fast as a pure berserker. Which doesnt happen, infact a pure Rampager (the glasscannon equivalent for cond. damage) cannot drop someone as fast as a berserker.

Also, this whole “Condition Meta” is a gross exegeration. The vast majority of the builds used in WvW rely on “good old fashion” direct-damage.
And the most problematic builds and balance-offenders are, with one exception that is already staring down the barrel of the nerfgun, all based on dealing direct-damage.

No it doesn’t do as much damage, but you are about 5x as hard to kill due to being able to stack defensive stats. Power builds have to sacrifice for that and sacrifice badly.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

The problem with the change you are proposing is it weakens an armor set which already sees little competitive use. While I don’t have issues with you bringing down berserkers damage, not doing anything to compensate (such as giving it some vitality) an armor set which already has trouble competing with others is a poor decision. Any profession balance or sigil changes will not do anything to offset this nerf because all other armor sets will benefit equally from the changes.

I’d really like to see your math on why you think berserker is out of line with other sets. I’ve done the math myself (link in my signature) and compared to solder, berserker doesn’t seem overpowered at all. In fact, it seems weak at levels below ascended and even with a 98% critical chance and 138% bonus critical damage, it still is in line with soldier equipment.

I’m also curious why you decided to go after critical damage but not condition damage and duration. Condition damage allows you to invest in a single armor stat to be effective, can easily be buffed to +60% duration via traits and food, and ignores toughness. To make critical damage effective on the other hand, you need to invest in 3 armor stats, not 1, as well as traits and fury to get good returns out of, and even then conditions are still just as strong only with over twice the defense.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Because all know how “balanced” the game turned out with warriors, I’ll keep your reply in mind with an ocean worth of salt.

It isnt about whose math is best. Condi and zerk are at opposite sides of the spectrum, anet deemed crit damage values to be out of place, so they were corrected.

I’m no fan of condi bunkers, but I think they were right (for WvW). I know a lot of people have trouble with condi bunkers, but it isnt the damage. Its the condis that stack in duration such as cripple, poison, and burning. A dps melee is doing no damage while being kited with 20sec of cripple.

Stand The Wall.6987:

It isnt about whose math is best. Condi and zerk are at opposite sides of the spectrum, anet deemed crit damage values to be out of place, so they were corrected.

I’m not trying to see who’s math is “best”. What I want to know is their basis for it being out of line, and if their reasoning and solution is just and logical.

So far all we have heard is the weighing of critical damage is wrong, but none of the reasons why it is wrong, and so far the community hasn’t been able to provide any evidence that backs up ArenaNets claims.

Charak.9761:

-10% Crit Damage
+Extra Sigil on 2h

Buff to zerker meta imo.

Good point, because an extra sigil ONLY effects zerker. It won’t make my condition warrior do more damage.

Jocksy.3415:

" you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit)"

I do not have hard numbers.
But it seems obvious to me that someone that deals damage over time needs tools to survive over time.

Lets say someone takes twice as long killing a mob in conditions as it takes someone in berserkers…
Even in full dire, one does not reach twice the health and toughness as a zerker has…

So yeah, seems all right, given that in most situations direct damages are preferred to conditions…

dude conditions also ignores Armor.

The fact that the ratio of crit damages on trinkets are higher than on armor, for once.
Many in WvW were taking PTV armor and zerk trinkets because it was the mos advantageous combinations.

Making crit damages the same kind of stat will allow for more balance between what trinkets give as stats and what the armour give.

it’s just about balancing – I do not think that they suddenly saw that crit damages were a problem – and I guess they have been working on that point for some time.

Now – dire… is the equivalent of PVT – allows for damages – but not max damages, as someone else pointed out…
Many condis builds rely as much on crits as power builds (to proc conditions)…

A condi build with no precision is often as good as a direct damage build in PTV…

Now, Bri, I looked at your calculations…
I have no idea on what rela hard data you are basing your claculations… you give “results” with no proof…

Plus, you factor in toughness and vitality to show that they bring more or less protection depending on armor (“Average damage from an attack”). It does not indicate how much damage berserker did to soldier, how much damage soldier did to berserker, how much damage berserk did to berserk and soldier to soldier.

You cannot only compare one set of stat, on only one stat it has, and call it extensive tests…

Now, a test I would have find more “hard data centered” would have been a test with one class, with nothing in trait lines, only armor + trinkets changing, where that character would have been set on auto attack (with a weapon that is both dps and condis) against a target at least 5 times, taking note of the time it took to kill that target on each try, then do it with all stat combinations…

Then get on a mob that can kill you (I think there are mobs that AA in the mists?, 5 times with each stats combinations, taking note of how long it took each times.
Now make the averages, put it in a nice table, and come tell your results…

Even more accurate would be to have a no stat allocations – armour only – of all stat combinations, where each player would only AA the other, in turn, until the other falls, again at least 5 times to have a good average.

The test of potential damages received according to armor does not show that zerk are not op, only that soldiers have more toughness and vita than zerk, which is kind of obvious…

Juba.8406:

Jocksy.3415:

" you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit)"

I do not have hard numbers.
But it seems obvious to me that someone that deals damage over time needs tools to survive over time.

Lets say someone takes twice as long killing a mob in conditions as it takes someone in berserkers…
Even in full dire, one does not reach twice the health and toughness as a zerker has…

So yeah, seems all right, given that in most situations direct damages are preferred to conditions…

dude conditions also ignores Armor.

Then why are they not used in zergs?

Cause they get cleansed faster than they are applied…

Good rotation of condi cleanse, even in groups of 5, means condis are doing nothing…

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

That isn’t really a good rationality. 2-handed having 2 sigil doesn’t specifically help out crit damage builds they help out all builds to a varying degree. If the second sigil brings Crit Damage back to par, it would bring other build above par. But if the 2nd sigil does in fact makes it balance or closer to balance, then what about crit damage build that already have 2 sigil slots (2 1-handed weapons), those build would take a nerf. You could apply this to runes as well, unless there are some overpowered rune sets that gives us ridiculous amount of Ferocity or bigger +% to over all damage.

Most importantly though if it’s 10% crit damage from gear, we would also have to look at the impact it has on traits. Will investing 30 trait points in a trait still give us 30% (meaning the ration is 10:1 for ferocit to Crit damage) but then that wouldn’t make sense. Or are we leaving it just as a 1% increase for trait purposes?

Jocksy, if you wish to debate my thread let’s continue this there. I’d rather not derail this thread.

Kadin.2356:

Terrahero.9358:

Mochann.5298:

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Before you guys “fix” critical damage, why not fix condition damage, which is in a far worse place:

• Maximum Stacks prevent it from being too useful against bosses
• it’s unbalanced against players as you can just load up on Condi Dmg stat and your other two can be defensive, whereas Power based builds need all three stats to be offensive ones to be effective (Power, Precision, Crit).

The fact that WvW is in a big Condi meta is proof enough that something needs to be fixed here. Condition needs more fixing than Critical Damage.

Maybe you should look up what the word “fact” means, because it doesnt mean what you seem to think it means.

Condition damage-builds do not rely just on 1 stat. This is flat out wrong, an idea spread around by people who either do not know what they are talking about or people who are simply lying.
If this was true then we’d see pure Dire builds drop someone just as fast as a pure berserker. Which doesnt happen, infact a pure Rampager (the glasscannon equivalent for cond. damage) cannot drop someone as fast as a berserker.

Also, this whole “Condition Meta” is a gross exegeration. The vast majority of the builds used in WvW rely on “good old fashion” direct-damage.
And the most problematic builds and balance-offenders are, with one exception that is already staring down the barrel of the nerfgun, all based on dealing direct-damage.

No it doesn’t do as much damage, but you are about 5x as hard to kill due to being able to stack defensive stats. Power builds have to sacrifice for that and sacrifice badly.

If id swap all my gear for full Dire i will absolutely not be 5x harder to kill. Itll have some impact, but tankiness comes from your build aswell. Picking the right traits and utility skills.

There are tanky power-based builds, that can absolutely compete and beat condition-based tank builds in both survivability and damage.

But this varies per profession, per build. Not every profession/build gains as much survivability or retains as much damage as the next. And Dire-gear is not some magical omnipotent gear that guarentees survivability and maintains damage, certainly not more then power-based tank gear.