If the developers need a reason to overhaul rallies in WvW the best reason I can give is inclusiveness and its counterpart, elitist behavior. Why would the most experienced players (guild groups) play with uplevels or inexperienced players if they have nothing to gain and instead have something to lose? Having inexperienced players rally enemy downs is the main reason fight guilds run tagless and in private comms, and this could be fixed by overhauling the rally mechanic.
That is probably the last reason why guilds run tagless and changing the rally mechanic would change this not at all. Inexperienced players will become welcomed by most commanders if they 1) get on teamspeak and follow directions, 2) know how to play their class, and 3) stay on tag.
Don’t take it personally if a guild group asks you to stop following them when they run tagless. They may be practicing for gvg or just like to do guild only rallies. It is nothing personal. Just leave them be and follow the commander who has tagged up.
I have to agree with xtac the rally mechanic stops a lot of tag commanders in their tracks. When 1 uplevel or inexperienced player dies in the middle of even fight it usually changes the outcome.
I forget what the numbers are but it can revive up to like 8 enemy players or something. The mechanic doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but so many builds and group comps are aimed at focusing targets and survival while downed for rallies, most skill groups probably want it to stay the same.
What the OP says is true. I have seen commanders/guilds actively avoid uplevels, and even pugs. And I have heard people complain about them. And it’s becoming more common in chat and on comms.
Maybe it would be better to remove it from WvW. It still has a place in PVE.
Remove Rally (but keeping the down state, and normal heals), or limiting rally to 1 rally for 1 death, would probably be a decent change, that shouldn’t really make anyone (or at least not many) upset.
I’d enjoy it personally.
OP has a point, there should be a rework of how rallying works in wvw. But of course there are other reasons why certain guilds prefer running alone/tagless. Uplevels sometimes are not in comms, do not have access to good gear/traits, and some are not knowledgable about wvw. EoTM has been a double edged sword regarding this issue, while it has given uplevels a place to gain exp in wvw, it has also drained players from wvw. While some guilds do not want uplevels in their groups, more numbers are always welcome with militia.
Perhaps a cd, or reducing the number of players that can rally on a player might help with the issue. But have to remember it works both ways.
Also in regards to elitism, it can be annoying sometimes but have to remember its a competitive gamemode and some people tend to act this way, not all, some. If they choose to play a certain way, thats their choice and nobody can force them to do otherwise. But everyone has a choice not to run with them if they do not like the percieved elitist attitude.
(edited by X T D.6458)
OP has a point, there should be a rework of how rallying works in wvw. But of course there are other reasons why certain guilds prefer running alone/tagless. Uplevels sometimes are not in comms, do not have access to good gear/traits, and some are not knowledgable about wvw. EoTM has been a double edged sword regarding this issue, while it has given uplevels a place to gain exp in wvw, it has also drained players from wvw. While some guilds do not want uplevels in their groups, more numbers are always welcome with militia.
Perhaps a cd, or reducing the number of players that can rally on a player might help with the issue. But have to remember it works both ways.
Also in regards to elitism, it can be annoying sometimes but have to remember its a competitive gamemode and some people tend to act this way, not all, some. If they choose to play a certain way, thats their choice and nobody can force them to do otherwise. But everyone has a choice not to run with them if they do not like the percieved elitist attitude.
I think a better option for rallying, if it wasn’t just fully removed, would be stomping to rally.
For one, people too low level will instantly die because they haven’t unlocked down state, so that takes off some of the pressure. Two, PvE mobs wouldn’t be able to rally people since the current WvW ones don’t have down state.
In addition, it could bring about some interesting coordination with trying to keep people from mindlessly cleaving and focusing on a stomp, as well to bring more value to thief and ranger in WvW.
(edited by Ultimaistanza.4793)
The only way I feel comfortable with changing the mechanic so that you do not rally off a kill of another player, is if they add more skills like warrior banner, that function as well.
Personally, I feel it is a terrible idea to change a game mechanic to cater to under leveled characters. Anyone playing regularly knows you spend infinitely more at time at level 80 then you do getting there.
To me, contradictory to the OP, what seems “elitist behavior” is to bring an under leveled character into an area and expect to be treated like an experienced 80. Not saying you do not have the right to be there, but that you are wrong to expect to be different levels, yet want to be treated on the same level.
With tomes, EotM, PvE, all allowing you insanely easy ways to level, that you would chose to do so in a way that hinders yourself and others, then demand they change the game simply to cater to that, is about as elitist as it gets.
Rally should work only for 1 character, the downed guy that did the most dmg for the enemy when it was up. Makes pve a bit harder and wvw rely less in rally on badies.
Banners and Poison fields are the counter play and the counter play to the counter play. To remove rallys would make the game into a pure range comp like you see in other big pvp games. There is simply less fear for the melee classes to rush into casters because they just need to comply kill one to keep going if the casters are able to kill them all at once then the melee are done. With no rallys then melee will simply run into a meat grinder of aoe from casters with no real counter other then simply overwhelming or being as tankly as posable with only caster on there side being able to do any type of real dmg.
Most all classes have revive skills already, but aren’t as powerfull and easy to use as the warrior’s banner.
Mesmers have Illusion of Life.
Elementalist have Glyph of renewal.
Necromancers have Signet of Undeath Ect..
Would be nice to see a switch twords classes using their abilities and not relying so much on outnumbering and focusing targets for the rally mechanic to kick in.
Uplevel/bad player constantly dies and rallies —→ Guild/Commander avoids uplevels/bad players --→ Uplevels/Bad players don’t get any better —→ Uplevel/bad player constantly dies and rallies --→ Guild/Commander avoids uplevels/bad players —→ Uplevels/Bad players don’t get any better
Yup, rally system is a good idea.
Uplevel/bad player constantly dies and rallies —-> Guild/Commander avoids uplevels/bad players —-> Uplevels/Bad players don’t get any better —-> Uplevel/bad player constantly dies and rallies —-> Guild/Commander avoids uplevels/bad players —-> Uplevels/Bad players don’t get any better
Yup, rally system is a good idea.
Because having up level and bad players constantly dieing helps you in a fight even if they are not rallying?
It would be interesting to try a “no rally” test week or two, like PPK and white swords. I bet it would really have interesting impacts at all levels of WvW. Some of the elite fight guilds might get an eye-opener…
It would be interesting to try a “no rally” test week or two, like PPK and white swords. I bet it would really have interesting impacts at all levels of WvW. Some of the elite fight guilds might get an eye-opener…
Although I generally like the rally mechanic, I am always up for testing new things of this nature on a temporary bases as well. You never know what might work out well.
The elitist behavior is fine with me. What’s wrong with guilds who spend a certain degree of time working together and getting better together, not wanting to play with random militia men? People join guilds to play together, not to play with random militia. I know in PvE, I only like to dungeon/fractal with guild members, so it makes sense that I do the same when I WvW, right?
The rally system is a little broken, I’d prefer that the downed state be removed completely. You die, you die. End of story. Most broken with the thief, who can rally off of 3-5 different players just because their downed auto-attack bounces. Don’t get me started with the staff guardian who manages to tag every enemy player before he downs, so he’s almost always guaranteed a rally.
How about making it so you’re only able to rally off the player that down’s you?
If the developers need a reason to overhaul rallies in WvW the best reason I can give is inclusiveness and its counterpart, elitist behavior. Why would the most experienced players (guild groups) play with uplevels or inexperienced players if they have nothing to gain and instead have something to lose? Having inexperienced players rally enemy downs is the main reason fight guilds run tagless and in private comms, and this could be fixed by overhauling the rally mechanic.
The rally mechanic works the opposite of that. I have a compelling interest to make sure players not in my guild stay alive due to the rally mechanic. I can completely ignore them without it.
The rally mechanic works fine and is in line with other aspects of the game to give players a compelling interest in other players being successful. Super nasty people will be super nasty no matter how you cut it. Without the rally system there is absolutely zero reason for me to care about someone not in my guild.
(edited by Zoel.9154)
The rally mechanic works the opposite of that. I have a compelling interest to make sure players not in my guild stay alive due to the rally mechanic. I can completely ignore them without it.
The rally mechanic works fine and is in line with other aspects of the game to give players a compelling interest in other players being successful. Super nasty people will be super nasty no matter how you cut it. Without the rally system there is absolutely zero reason for me to care about someone not in my guild.
What kind of answer is that, you won’t care about people if it was changed?
Mass rallying off of kills allows 1 or 2 new people to throw an even fight and this alone causes most of the elitism if not all of it in game.
1 guy dying should not be able to throw a fight that one side was clearly about to win. Why you would want that to stay the same I don’t know.
Donwstate and friendly rallys work great and you can “care about pugs” all you want and keep them up; banners, glyphs, sigils, skills, just pressing F and not leaving them to die, these are working fine.
Allowing most of a zerg to rally off one death is silly. I’d prefer to keep the current mechanics and just limit the max number of rallies per death to 5.
1 death = 1 rally. That should be it.
I’d much rather see stomps count for more than rally weakened.
Zerglings ressurecting faster than a stomp can be completed is infuriating.
Instant respawn on double. You lost, take your lap.
The rally mechanic works perfectly fine and should not be changed just because some entitled uplevel is sad that he can’t ruin a guild’s raid because they want to practice.
Guilds usually run 15-25 for a reason. They want to stay competitive. Have some respect regardless of your skill and/or level and go follow a public commander or roam on your own.
People in WvW are probably the most welcoming people in the game, granted, the person in question has the decency to actually follow instructions and ask for help instead of crying “i bought this game i can do what i want”, which pretty much sums up this thread.
(edited by Phosphia.7813)
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