Rally mechanic and revive in WvW
Speaking for roaming it’s a hassle,sometimes i want to engage something larger when im mostly running with a group of 2 – 4 but knowing downed state can and alot of times will mess up what could have been a great fight i mostly skip it nowadays.Not enough cleave,people doing more reshealing than you can do dmg on a target,finishing being slower than getting rezzed,people running with mercy runes and resfood.Alot of times it just seems people are actually relying it,knowing they can go nuts a bit then go down and get ressed anyway cus they have more people.
I like your proposal but i dont think anet will ever completely remove downed state for one side,theres too many finishers in the gemstore for that.But a nerf is needed imo.
Less downed hp
Less reshealing done to a downed person
Only rally once and the next time you’re full dead
this would also make it more forgiving for pugs to run inside private wvw raids. If no one is outnumbered, pugs won’t die and rally your downs.
(the idea behind the push for private wvw raids is because pugs would die and rally your downs, not fun. They ruin your fights)
this would also make it more forgiving for pugs to run inside private wvw raids. If no one is outnumbered, pugs won’t die and rally your downs.
(the idea behind the push for private wvw raids is because pugs would die and rally your downs, not fun. They ruin your fights)
At one point you want to nerf downedstate but on the other hand you complain about people dying and ruining fights ?
this would also make it more forgiving for pugs to run inside private wvw raids. If no one is outnumbered, pugs won’t die and rally your downs.
(the idea behind the push for private wvw raids is because pugs would die and rally your downs, not fun. They ruin your fights)
At one point you want to nerf downedstate but on the other hand you complain about people dying and ruining fights ?
I don’t believe we’re on the same page. I didn’t say I want to nerf downed state.
I’m specifically talking about the ability to get up from downed state when something you hit fully dies, and the ability to resurrect fully downed players.
Rallying and downed state is an integral part of GW2 combat that soften up the difference in gear/build vs numbers and skill. Remove it and you kill what makes GW2 just GW2 combat.
Does it have drawbacks when heavily outmanned? Yes but you cant fix that. Its impossible to fix without an equally bad impact on small scale combat where the outnumbered group won due to good teamwork and resses. Whatever make the 20 man group stronger in a 20v40 fight will make the 40 man group twice as strong in a 40v20 man fight. Its as simple as that.
This isnt really that big of an issue in small scale if you bring the right tools and tactics to the fight – instastomps, ranged stomps, pulls, knockbacks and quick stab. Not just braindead zerg builds.
I don’t really understand people who wants to change game mechanics only because they are not good enough to properly fight larger groups. Numbers are numbers, git gud or don’t engage.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Welll palyers on biggers servers already have more health compared with the smaller onces, dont forget that owning structures provide more health arround 3-4k?? when im in the midle the map and health drop 900Hp-1k i know the server lost something.
i would adress those issues first, but what if outmaned provided some sorta buff for players to???
Players in squad while together coureceiveld some battly cry "balance"boon while in outmaned to compete with numbers and the extra health they have by getting the structures??
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Server points are half of the picture, good luck defending objectives if there’s nothing you can do when outnumbered to fight a zerg.
The problem with the current system is that it rewards a server for having larger numbers. What I’m proposing is rewarding skilled play in a situation where it’s an uphill battle, slowly attrition the enemy zerg and drive them out.
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Server points are half of the picture, good luck defending objectives if there’s nothing you can do when outnumbered to fight a zerg.
The problem with the current system is that it rewards a server for having larger numbers. What I’m proposing is rewarding skilled play in a situation where it’s an uphill battle, slowly attrition the enemy zerg and drive them out.
You can drive away or stall most zergs for a while if you’re inside and had warning they were coming. 2-3 prebuilt super ACs (I wish players would stop building trash normals) will make them either waste time trying to remove them or make them reassess the situation. Throw disablers on any siege made and ballista/tree/cata them till more people make it over to pick off stragglers under AC fire.
The main issue is when a massive Zerg gets to an objective and the door or siege is down before anyone had time to react especially when they massively outnumber you.
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Server points are half of the picture, good luck defending objectives if there’s nothing you can do when outnumbered to fight a zerg.
The problem with the current system is that it rewards a server for having larger numbers. What I’m proposing is rewarding skilled play in a situation where it’s an uphill battle, slowly attrition the enemy zerg and drive them out.
You can drive away or stall most zergs for a while if you’re inside and had warning they were coming. 2-3 prebuilt super ACs (I wish players would stop building trash normals) will make them either waste time trying to remove them or make them reassess the situation. Throw disablers on any siege made and ballista/tree/cata them till more people make it over to pick off stragglers under AC fire.
The main issue is when a massive Zerg gets to an objective and the door or siege is down before anyone had time to react especially when they massively outnumber you.
If you play WvW, you know what it’s like disabling, repairing, and using siege to slow the inevitable capture of the objective you’re defending when you’re outnumbered. When the zerg outnumbers you, they can carry more supply on their persons, and end up draining your own supply especially when they use catas on two walls.
Come to think of it, my proposal is not enough to fix large number variances- but it’s still a step in the right direction.
TheBravery.9615 game was designed to behave like that… why do you even think that are spots where a zerg can drop siege where cant be atacked from a small server??
plus zerg even to defend against 2 players will use 3 shield gens and 5+ catas or 5+ rams… and in some spots siege ise useless due how easy is to atack the walls of a keep, where it should be a better thing for who is defending, even ANet never changed that and made the offense being carried with several gimmicks over time, disables are just a way to placebo the defense up a bit.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Server points are half of the picture, good luck defending objectives if there’s nothing you can do when outnumbered to fight a zerg.
The problem with the current system is that it rewards a server for having larger numbers. What I’m proposing is rewarding skilled play in a situation where it’s an uphill battle, slowly attrition the enemy zerg and drive them out.
You can drive away or stall most zergs for a while if you’re inside and had warning they were coming. 2-3 prebuilt super ACs (I wish players would stop building trash normals) will make them either waste time trying to remove them or make them reassess the situation. Throw disablers on any siege made and ballista/tree/cata them till more people make it over to pick off stragglers under AC fire.
The main issue is when a massive Zerg gets to an objective and the door or siege is down before anyone had time to react especially when they massively outnumber you.
If you play WvW, you know what it’s like disabling, repairing, and using siege to slow the inevitable capture of the objective you’re defending when you’re outnumbered. When the zerg outnumbers you, they can carry more supply on their persons, and end up draining your own supply especially when they use catas on two walls.
Come to think of it, my proposal is not enough to fix large number variances- but it’s still a step in the right direction.
This is an issue when you’re outnumbered and get no back up but this is a symptom of matchmaking not mechanics per say. Disabling requires either stealth or invuln to get off most of the time, though I do agree it’s almost impossible if the zerg hides under shield bubbles or has enough catas to have a permenant bubble.
However if you have a commander willing to port over when they’re first spotted near your spawn towers/keep the commander can make it there just as the enemy zerg is building and you’ll usually win with a few ACs.
However as I say, against a T3 especially with invuln walls you can repel an enemy with a few ACs and a willing commander. If you see the enemy zerg coming from a camp you can even supply trap ahead of them reducing their sups to almost nothing. My personal favourite thing to do is put them just off the path and bait the zerg into it as most EU zergs are stupidly hungry for even 1 kill, so it gets the bulk of the enemy.
I have no problem killing squirrels outside of a zerg, it becomes a problem when they can run back and fully resurrect that dead player as if nothing happened. How can you deal with a team that outnumbers you if they are capable of undoing any damage you do to their numbers?
But thats not true at all.
You got the server points for killing and preferably stomping him, did you not?
If you dont consider that as something, what did you except to get from killing him?
Server points are half of the picture, good luck defending objectives if there’s nothing you can do when outnumbered to fight a zerg.
The problem with the current system is that it rewards a server for having larger numbers. What I’m proposing is rewarding skilled play in a situation where it’s an uphill battle, slowly attrition the enemy zerg and drive them out.
You can drive away or stall most zergs for a while if you’re inside and had warning they were coming. 2-3 prebuilt super ACs (I wish players would stop building trash normals) will make them either waste time trying to remove them or make them reassess the situation. Throw disablers on any siege made and ballista/tree/cata them till more people make it over to pick off stragglers under AC fire.
The main issue is when a massive Zerg gets to an objective and the door or siege is down before anyone had time to react especially when they massively outnumber you.
If you play WvW, you know what it’s like disabling, repairing, and using siege to slow the inevitable capture of the objective you’re defending when you’re outnumbered. When the zerg outnumbers you, they can carry more supply on their persons, and end up draining your own supply especially when they use catas on two walls.
Come to think of it, my proposal is not enough to fix large number variances- but it’s still a step in the right direction.
This is an issue when you’re outnumbered and get no back up but this is a symptom of matchmaking not mechanics per say. Disabling requires either stealth or invuln to get off most of the time, though I do agree it’s almost impossible if the zerg hides under shield bubbles or has enough catas to have a permenant bubble.
However if you have a commander willing to port over when they’re first spotted near your spawn towers/keep the commander can make it there just as the enemy zerg is building and you’ll usually win with a few ACs.
However as I say, against a T3 especially with invuln walls you can repel an enemy with a few ACs and a willing commander. If you see the enemy zerg coming from a camp you can even supply trap ahead of them reducing their sups to almost nothing. My personal favourite thing to do is put them just off the path and bait the zerg into it as most EU zergs are stupidly hungry for even 1 kill, so it gets the bulk of the enemy.
I agree and disagree with the bold statement.
Matchmaking contributes to the problem, but the way WvW is designed- 24/365 live game, variances in server timezone activity, and the ability to transfer server; WvW’s population issue is going to have problem because that’s the way WvW is designed. Unless we recreate WvW to be an instanced 2 hour battle field of 50 vs 50 players, better matchmaking algorithms won’t work in its current state.
So how do we approach outnumbered fights?
1. Fix the matchmaking algorithm, which will never be perfect due to previously stated variables
2. Adjust modifiers to the outnumbered buff (which I’m proposing)
3. Redesign WvW to be more structured like PvP.
If you say 1, suggest a matchmaking algorithm.
im going to blunt here.
anyone who is losing outnumbered fights but believes that they should be winning has a big ego problem. in nearly all cases superior numbers should result in victory. there needs to be exceptional skill & tactics for the small group to come out on top. without that you will lose the outnumbered fight.
if you think you have the skill to win, & the only thing holding you back is current game mechanics- you’ve got an ego problem. if in practice you are losing the outnumbered fights the issue is with your group, you just aren’t good enough. sure, you can argue that the fights are very hard, perhaps too hard. but dude this is obvious, it’s an outnumbered fight. it’s something you should lose. winning these should be neither easy nor common.
if you think you deserve to win outnumbered fights, & therefore the game should be changed to accommodate that. not only do you have an inflated ego, but you’re also incredibly entitled. it’s a sad attitude to have.
Ad Hominem much?
You clearly misunderstood the position I took, and rather than providing argument to the idea you decided to attack me instead.
Let me paint a picture: I’m in a group of 10 fighting a group of 20. We generate downs and sustain the enemy’s attack, kite, and attrition the enemy to reduce their numbers one by one. However, due to their size, they can take the loss of numbers because they still outnumber us so they push us back into our keep. We end up killing 5 of their 20, they didn’t kill any of our 10, and while we were pushed back, 2 of the enemies inside that zerg left combat to resurrect our kills. Despite the positive kill ratio, this is not a victory in my eyes, the 20 man zerg is still attacking my keep as some rallybot zombie zerg.
You’re absolutely correct that outnumbered fights should be difficult and uncommon, as they currently are. It’s not correct to have a game mechanic making the situation worse than it has to be. I’m not suggesting for some godly outnumbered buff that makes me ‘git gud’.
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!
Then you brought the wrong tools to go 1v2. Just damage doesnt always cut it.
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!Then you brought the wrong tools to go 1v2. Just damage doesnt always cut it.
Sorry, I play warrior, not mesmer, can’t have everything.
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!Then you brought the wrong tools to go 1v2. Just damage doesnt always cut it.
Sorry, I play warrior, not mesmer, can’t have everything.
That’s true. Warrior has no interrupts.
Revive and resurrect (downs vs dead) are both core mechanics of GW2.
They both need to stay.
Now…. making them slower would not be a bad thing either.
Each class has tools to use, and yes, the advantage goes to the larger groups.
But honestly, it’s easier today when rally only works on a one to one basis instead of 5 to 1 like it did originally.
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!Then you brought the wrong tools to go 1v2. Just damage doesnt always cut it.
Sorry, I play warrior, not mesmer, can’t have everything.
That’s true. Warrior has no interrupts.
What’s a stab? Distortion? Dark field? Or easy mode pasives? There shouldn’t be ever a scenario where someone can be revived so easily while getting cleaved.
Reviving is pure cancer. It’s way too fast.
I lost the count how many times I down people in 2v1 and they manage to revive them while cleaving or simply do it faster than my stomp. Why not change that? Why not add debuff that makes people take +50% more damage while reviving people? But wait, we needed gliding!Then you brought the wrong tools to go 1v2. Just damage doesnt always cut it.
Sorry, I play warrior, not mesmer, can’t have everything.
That’s true. Warrior has no interrupts.
What’s a stab? Distortion? Dark field? Or easy mode pasives? There shouldn’t be ever a scenario where someone can be revived so easily while getting cleaved.
Yep. All legitimate techniques within the game that have been there. This isn’t new. Focused fire.
What IS new, is people are preparing for it to extend fights.
Roll a thief and drop short now poison on the corpse.