Guild Wars 2

Okay, misconceptions. First and foremost; players make the meta, not devs. Also, WvW is all inclusive, ANet has no control over player interaction in that gamemode though, let alone on community sites and VoIP, but you are capable of joining and playing WvW on anything and do anything you want.

Time to educate.

Organized guild groups are all running a boon meta powered by Durability Runes and how insanely OP their AoE proc is alone, on top of what the stats are.

Here’s the bread and butter party composition:

• 2 Guardians
• Glint/Mallyx Herald
• Tempest
• X

Essentially, Heralds maintain F2 and camp Mallyx as much as possible spamming resistance as much as possible. Guardians boon support, cleanses, some heals. Tempest CC, heals, damage. Whole group moves as one with no real concept of a “backline” anymore.

What is X? Reapers, Berserkers, Scrappers, or in rare circumstance Chronomancers. X is looking to maximize damage and unique utility in their position. Reapers are perfect at this role; high damage, can push with group, boon strip. Berserkers are like the harder to kill, higher constant damage version of that role, but don’t bring the strips. Scrapper works very similarly to Berserker but brings much more group utility with AoE heal/cleanse, water fields, gyros, etc. Mesmer is boonshare with veil/portal utility.

Where/how does or would Druid work in this equation? The damage Druid brings is honestly inconsequential at the end of the day (not useless, don’t wet noodle). It ends up having the same fate as chronomancers do; 1 or 2 with the absolutely perfect build and ability can have some useful utility, but stacking more than that is wasting the opportunity value of X’s potential role in party/squad compositions. What you bring as a Druid are CC/Heals and Superspeed (only Tempests and Scrappers can even offer this to party members besides you, it’s important).

You will work your kitten off to earn that spot as X in a party composition, and are a liability if you are costing your group too much damage. A good Druid that can roll with the group can be a valuable asset that assists with tons of sustain and the ability to provide some setup for the rest of the group to dish out damage and possibly add some meaningful cleave every once in awhile (yes you should be staff/melee). A bad Druid thinks their damage is amazing and contributes little to nothing to the team/squad dynamic, which is 99% of the other Druids I come across.

Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with running damage or LB or whatever else the heart desires. But given what the metagame is, at most you’re ganking for the main squad while the main squad does their thing, and at worst, well, you’re fodder, and a waste of a squad slot for any commander looking to run an organized group and not a pug group (recognize this when you join on commanders, guild groups tend to be very demanding of pugs or unaccepting entirely).

PS as a long time Ranger/Druid main and forum community member, I adamantly insist to my guild leader that he kick all Rangers/Druids from squad. I absolutely partake in the criticisms the community places upon the class, because 99% of the representation the class gets from the ingame population is useless pew pew rallybots.

If you take issue with that, then do what I had to do to earn my place amongst the guild I am in and people I play the game with, accept that skepticism and opinion people have of you being on that class, then go above and beyond what they have come to expect from it and prove them wrong.

PPS I don’t like coming across bad players, but I especially don’t like coming across bad rangers/druids. We wouldn’t have the reputation that people give our class if people didn’t live up to that reputation on a widespread level. Whining and crying about it on the forums won’t change that perspective; playing better and being better will. In the time it takes you to whine that people don’t like what or how you’re playing even though they could definitely be justified in their opinion of your skillset as a player, you could have been improving that skillset, changing peoples opinions, and proving people wrong.

Mini Bubba Mike…. best Druid NA

Play what you want. We didn’t have squads for a long time in this game. Just play the old way with your ranger and tell the try hards to go F*** themselves. They can’t kick you out of the map.

Hexinx.1872:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

for the comparison as to what puck’s referring to

Humm.. Coalescence is 3 targets 1200 range and does crappy damage. 4 sec recharge

Rapid fire is 1440 base damage, 1500 range and hits 5 targets (with multipliers i sometimes can pull off 30k on 5 targets in a single rapid fire. 10 sec recharge (untraited)

so.. they can hit 3 targets at 1200 range for about 1200 every 4 sec .. while i can hit 5 targets 1500 range once every 10 sec for around 16,000-30,000 damage… seems clear to me

trueanimus.4085:

Coalescence is 3 targets 1200 range and does crappy damage. 4 sec recharge

CoR is actually 3 impacts that hit 5 targets each. Also, here are some screenshots of CoR “crappy damage”.

trueanimus.4085:

Hexinx.1872:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

for the comparison as to what puck’s referring to

Humm.. Coalescence is 3 targets 1200 range and does crappy damage. 4 sec recharge

Rapid fire is 1440 base damage, 1500 range and hits 5 targets (with multipliers i sometimes can pull off 30k on 5 targets in a single rapid fire. 10 sec recharge (untraited)

so.. they can hit 3 targets at 1200 range for about 1200 every 4 sec .. while i can hit 5 targets 1500 range once every 10 sec for around 16,000-30,000 damage… seems clear to me

lol

Jim Hunter.6821:

trueanimus.4085:

How is anything i have pointed out misinformation?

Okay first off, piercing arrows wasn’t added with HoT, rangers have had that for a long time. Rangers dps is garbage, it’s the 2nd worst in the game. I know people like to argue that this doesn’t matter in a PvP setting and they would usually be correct but it does matter in a zerg setting because your high damage skills are useless against competent groups and your pets are dead after the first push (also ruining all the traits and self buffs that are tied into the pets).

Running longbow in a zerg is actually in a much worse place than it was pre hot because of all the projectile hate that was added to the game. A coordinated group will negate 100% of your projectiles. This is why people ask for necro’s, rev’s, ele’s, for damage.

trueanimus.4085:

I point you again to piercing arrows and the short cooldown on rapid fire. Five targets, full dps, very short cooldown.. far shorter than any other aoe in game.

^Can you seriously say with a straight face that this isn’t misinformation?

Piercing arrows was added June 2015 (with the prepatch for HoT) if im not mistaken.

Ranger dps that i have seen, far out damages every class in game if played correctly. Rapid fire is a 10 sec cd if not traited, but still 1.5 to 2 times the base damage of other classes and lands (with no delay now since they buffed arrow speed) instantly. Not only that but you have a pet landing hits, pulling stuns and conditions off of you plus breaking marks, giving you extra damage, buffs and even heals depending on the pet you run.

And so what if the pet dies… swap pets.. its not that hard. I run a ranged dps pet (so he stays at range out of the marks) and a pet that has a melee knockdown and that can invulne when in danger and also is ground attacking so i can send him in to clear marks etc, then recall or swap.

You do extra damage while your pet is alive and they do serve a purpose. If they die.. swap.

Jeknar.6184:

trueanimus.4085:

Coalescence is 3 targets 1200 range and does crappy damage. 4 sec recharge

CoR is actually 3 impacts that hit 5 targets each. Also, here are some screenshots of CoR “crappy damage”.

ah.. against a clothie.. i can see why. But still.. if a ranger had hit you.. you would have been almost insta down so my point remains

Since when Dragonhunter is a clothie? Did you looked at the second screenshot my boi? 12k against a 2,9k Armor guardian is no crappy damage.

oh and btw… https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spike_Barrage does almost as much dps as my rapid fire (without the carryover from my traits)

Jeknar.6184:

Since when Dragonhunter is a clothie? Did you looked at the second screenshot my boi? 12k against a 2,9k Armor guardian is no crappy damage.

ah my bad.. saw the vamperic and marks etc and assumed you were a necro.. anywho.. you must be hella glass to get hit that hard.. lols learn to V key bro

besides.. i hear the “meta” is now hammer and anvil old school guardian.. might wanna get on that

Lorelei.3918:

Play what you want. We didn’t have squads for a long time in this game. Just play the old way with your ranger and tell the try hards to go F*** themselves. They can’t kick you out of the map.

Aye… i dont care what they say. I have fun on ranger and thats what i play. I consider myself pretty good at it also.. so .. meh.

Fun to see all the people saying ranger/druid sucks too.. hoping all the hate will get us another buff =)

Peace

Ranger could trait for piercing arrows even before the trait changes last June, it was just a different trait. And no, ranger doesn’t has better dps than other classes. Rapid Fire has a high total dmg, but you are ignoring that it is a) a 2 1/2 seconds long channel, which gives even players with slow reactions more than enough time to react and b) it is a projectile based attack, which can and will be easily countered in zergfights by projectile reflection/destruction if the opposing zerg is not completey trash.

CoR (just as one single example) has less than half the cooldown, less casttime, is not a projectile, hits up to 15 players (which will result in higher total dmg than RF) and hammer rev has additional non-projectile hard hitting aoe skills, projectile destruction, overall better dmg modifier and boon support.

It is fine to play ranger and having fun doing so, but that doesn’t make it as efficient as other classes in zerg fights. And no, i don’t think the class will get buffs, because there are other playstyles (roaming/small scale) and game modes, where ranger/druid shines.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Ranger could trait for piercing arrows even before the trait changes last June, it was just a different trait. And no, ranger doesn’t has better dps than other classes. Rapid Fire has a high total dmg, but you are ignoring that it is a) a 2 1/2 seconds long channel, which gives even players with slow reactions more than enough time to react and b) it is a projectile based attack, which can and will be easily countered in zergfights by projectile reflection/destruction if the opposing zerg is not completey trash.

CoR has less than half the cooldown, less casttime, is not a projectile, hits up to 15 players (which will result in higher total dmg than RF) and hammer rev has additional non-projectile hard hitting aoe skills, projectile destruction, overall better dmg modifier and boon support.

It is fine to play ranger and having fun doing so, but that doesn’t make it as efficent as other classes in zerg fights. And no, i don’t think the class will get buffs, because there are other playstyles (roaming/small scale) and game modes, where ranger/druid shines.

the funny thing is.. and i see this a LOT… especially in zerg fights.

I target someone in the mid or back. They start getting hit by the first part of the rapid fire chain, and its low damage.. 3k usually.. then its 6k then 9k then 15k etc… By the time they realize they are being targeted, they are down.

Now with a melee class, your in their face and they know they are under attack and dodging is almost instant. With 1500 range, they almost never dodge, drop a reflect wall or even try to evade.

Not saying its better or worse really.. just saying its a little easier to kill someone at range when they dont know where its coming from than standing on top of them and they can see the hit coming and dodge it.

trueanimus.4085:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Ranger could trait for piercing arrows even before the trait changes last June, it was just a different trait. And no, ranger doesn’t has better dps than other classes. Rapid Fire has a high total dmg, but you are ignoring that it is a) a 2 1/2 seconds long channel, which gives even players with slow reactions more than enough time to react and b) it is a projectile based attack, which can and will be easily countered in zergfights by projectile reflection/destruction if the opposing zerg is not completey trash.

CoR has less than half the cooldown, less casttime, is not a projectile, hits up to 15 players (which will result in higher total dmg than RF) and hammer rev has additional non-projectile hard hitting aoe skills, projectile destruction, overall better dmg modifier and boon support.

It is fine to play ranger and having fun doing so, but that doesn’t make it as efficent as other classes in zerg fights. And no, i don’t think the class will get buffs, because there are other playstyles (roaming/small scale) and game modes, where ranger/druid shines.

the funny thing is.. and i see this a LOT… especially in zerg fights.

I target someone in the mid or back. They start getting hit by the first part of the rapid fire chain, and its low damage.. 3k usually.. then its 6k then 9k then 15k etc… By the time they realize they are being targeted, they are down.

Now with a melee class, your in their face and they know they are under attack and dodging is almost instant. With 1500 range, they almost never dodge, drop a reflect wall or even try to evade.

Not saying its better or worse really.. just saying its a little easier to kill someone at range when they dont know where its coming from than standing on top of them and they can see the hit coming and dodge it.

Oh so your whole argument is based on the assumption that every enemy group you come across is full of brain dead morons….

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oh so your whole argument is based on the assumption that every enemy group you come across is full of brain dead morons….

Play and learn the class. So many players here have no clue how to play ranger. They put it on some zerg mob and are surprised when it doesn’t work. Oh really?!

Yeah Puck, go play ranger. You know nothing!

jcbroe.4329:

Okay, misconceptions. First and foremost; players make the meta, not devs. Also, WvW is all inclusive, ANet has no control over player interaction in that gamemode though, let alone on community sites and VoIP, but you are capable of joining and playing WvW on anything and do anything you want.

Time to educate.

Organized guild groups are all running a boon meta powered by Durability Runes and how insanely OP their AoE proc is alone, on top of what the stats are.

Here’s the bread and butter party composition:

• 2 Guardians
• Glint/Mallyx Herald
• Tempest
• X

Essentially, Heralds maintain F2 and camp Mallyx as much as possible spamming resistance as much as possible. Guardians boon support, cleanses, some heals. Tempest CC, heals, damage. Whole group moves as one with no real concept of a “backline” anymore.

What is X? Reapers, Berserkers, Scrappers, or in rare circumstance Chronomancers. X is looking to maximize damage and unique utility in their position. Reapers are perfect at this role; high damage, can push with group, boon strip. Berserkers are like the harder to kill, higher constant damage version of that role, but don’t bring the strips. Scrapper works very similarly to Berserker but brings much more group utility with AoE heal/cleanse, water fields, gyros, etc. Mesmer is boonshare with veil/portal utility.

Where/how does or would Druid work in this equation? The damage Druid brings is honestly inconsequential at the end of the day (not useless, don’t wet noodle). It ends up having the same fate as chronomancers do; 1 or 2 with the absolutely perfect build and ability can have some useful utility, but stacking more than that is wasting the opportunity value of X’s potential role in party/squad compositions. What you bring as a Druid are CC/Heals and Superspeed (only Tempests and Scrappers can even offer this to party members besides you, it’s important).

You will work your kitten off to earn that spot as X in a party composition, and are a liability if you are costing your group too much damage. A good Druid that can roll with the group can be a valuable asset that assists with tons of sustain and the ability to provide some setup for the rest of the group to dish out damage and possibly add some meaningful cleave every once in awhile (yes you should be staff/melee). A bad Druid thinks their damage is amazing and contributes little to nothing to the team/squad dynamic, which is 99% of the other Druids I come across.

Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with running damage or LB or whatever else the heart desires. But given what the metagame is, at most you’re ganking for the main squad while the main squad does their thing, and at worst, well, you’re fodder, and a waste of a squad slot for any commander looking to run an organized group and not a pug group (recognize this when you join on commanders, guild groups tend to be very demanding of pugs or unaccepting entirely).

PS as a long time Ranger/Druid main and forum community member, I adamantly insist to my guild leader that he kick all Rangers/Druids from squad. I absolutely partake in the criticisms the community places upon the class, because 99% of the representation the class gets from the ingame population is useless pew pew rallybots.

If you take issue with that, then do what I had to do to earn my place amongst the guild I am in and people I play the game with, accept that skepticism and opinion people have of you being on that class, then go above and beyond what they have come to expect from it and prove them wrong.

PPS I don’t like coming across bad players, but I especially don’t like coming across bad rangers/druids. We wouldn’t have the reputation that people give our class if people didn’t live up to that reputation on a widespread level. Whining and crying about it on the forums won’t change that perspective; playing better and being better will. In the time it takes you to whine that people don’t like what or how you’re playing even though they could definitely be justified in their opinion of your skillset as a player, you could have been improving that skillset, changing peoples opinions, and proving people wrong.

Good to see you post and my initial claims effectively be reiterated entirely.

Everything else on this page made me facepalm. We have claims stating ranger has the best DPS in the game if played well, claims about CoR having weak damage, and people telling prominent players to L2P.

Zenith.6403:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oh so your whole argument is based on the assumption that every enemy group you come across is full of brain dead morons….

Play and learn the class. So many players here have no clue how to play ranger. They put it on some zerg mob and are surprised when it doesn’t work. Oh really?!

……. k

Eh they are cancer in spvp

The one thing you can guarantee with a ‘meta’ is that next week anet will nurf it into the ground and everyone will be crying foul into their helmets.

I have used a ranger for a long time in WvW. It works really well as long range damage.

It might not be the perfect zerg class, but it does have uses. It’s an outstanding skirmisher. It can certainly apply DPS to a single target.

I might not put it in an ‘elite’ guild group, but anything else and it’s fine.

jcbroe.4329:

I adamantly insist to my guild leader that he kick all Rangers/Druids from squad.

Which is rather short sighted, poor man management and generally counter-productive, much better to kick rangers/thieves when the squad reaches 50, with a “Sorry rangers, gotta make room in the squad for melee”.

The outcome of which, to take a couple of people I know who played ranger, when a commander who didn’t whine about rangers, thieves, etc or immediately kick them was having tough fights, those players would often log another class to help out, where as the commanders who whined about rangers/thieves, kicked instantly, got a "kitten you " attitude back in return and no re-logging on to another class.

zinkz.7045:

jcbroe.4329:

I adamantly insist to my guild leader that he kick all Rangers/Druids from squad.

Which is rather short sighted, poor man management and generally counter-productive, much better to kick rangers/thieves when the squad reaches 50, with “A sorry rangers, gotta make room in the squad for these guards, etc”.

The outcome of which, to take a couple of people I know who played ranger, when the a commander who didn’t whine about rangers, thieves, etc or immediately kick them (though I am sure like every other commander he’d of preferred other classes) was having tough fights, those players would often log another class to help out, where as the commanders who whined about rangers/thieves, kicked instantly, got a "kitten you " attitude back in return and no re-logging on to another class.

While I agree more with this mentality as a means to approach raiding (I was kicked for just telling the GM of a guild that rangers would probably see use in commander sniping immediately after the CDI – and I was correct), this was addressed in his post sublty in the sense that you do not join a WvW raiding guild and then play a ranger. If you get an invite and people are otherwise fine with you playing it – I.E. you earned that right by clearly demonstrating a massive proficiency with the class (as jc did on his ranger and as I have done on my thief) – that’s when you might get the all-clear from leaders. Nobody’s entitled to tell a raiding guild how it should run its groups except for its leaders. There are some guilds where anything but a very specific comp will be a liability. This gets more and more strict as the fights get bigger and the guild gets outnumbered.

As I said initially, a lot of rangers don’t even know they’re being liabilities or refuse to accept that fact. Longbow pew pew in a large group, especially coming from PvE, has the lowest skill floor in the game. There are a lot of rangers that haven’t gotten past the open-world mentality of just unloading at a distance, and that lack of understanding gets large numbers of people killed in WvW. The commanders know when a player is good on a ranger, thief, or anything, really so long as you’re visible, but they can easily check their damage logs to know precisely when someone isn’t good and hurting the group, and it’s the easiest to determine it as a ranger, because not many professions are so capable of killing their own allies while having that damage recorded in logs.

DeceiverX.8361:

There are a lot of rangers that haven’t gotten past the open-world mentality of just unloading at a distance

In case you didn’t know, longbow’s autoattack Long Range Shot deals more damage when fired at greater distance. That’s why you see rangers firing at distance and not coming to melee range to hold your hand.

DeceiverX.8361:

The commanders know when a player is good on a ranger, thief, or anything, really so long as you’re visible, but they can easily check their damage logs to know precisely when someone isn’t good and hurting the group, and it’s the easiest to determine it as a ranger, because not many professions are so capable of killing their own allies while having that damage recorded in logs.

I’m not too familiar what stats commanders see, but I haven’t yet found a way to kill my allies when playing ranger. Is this another passive-aggressive whine from you “if Timmy wasn’t playing Ranger and was playing banner warrior instead we wouldn’t have died – he killed us !!!”

Zenith.6403:

DeceiverX.8361:

There are a lot of rangers that haven’t gotten past the open-world mentality of just unloading at a distance

In case you didn’t know, longbow’s autoattack Long Range Shot deals more damage when fired at greater distance. That’s why you see rangers firing at distance and not coming to melee range to hold your hand.

DeceiverX.8361:

The commanders know when a player is good on a ranger, thief, or anything, really so long as you’re visible, but they can easily check their damage logs to know precisely when someone isn’t good and hurting the group, and it’s the easiest to determine it as a ranger, because not many professions are so capable of killing their own allies while having that damage recorded in logs.

I’m not too familiar what stats commanders see, but I haven’t yet found a way to kill my allies when playing ranger. Is this another passive-aggressive whine from you “if Timmy wasn’t playing Ranger and was playing banner warrior instead we wouldn’t have died – he killed us !!!”

…… he’s talking about rapid firing into reflects and lighting up your own teammates….. which is what 90% of rangers in zergs do.

back like zerk durid is fun to play and has a lot of sustain/mobility, wheni play it i alway look for eles to rapid fire as i know they are zerk too, also i love to troll with the pets to test the enemyes skill level.

mabey if people did not play the “meta” WvW would have more variety.

Zenith.6403:

DeceiverX.8361:

There are a lot of rangers that haven’t gotten past the open-world mentality of just unloading at a distance

In case you didn’t know, longbow’s autoattack Long Range Shot deals more damage when fired at greater distance. That’s why you see rangers firing at distance and not coming to melee range to hold your hand.

I am aware of the ranger’s kit. I was a thief/ranger dual main at one point, and have been an advocate for the class for years; almost all of the QoL changes I suggested in the ranger CDI made it to the live game.

Being at 1500+ ranged away plinking at heavies running massive damage mitigation and bringing no support into a blob means diddly squat. You’re better off in melee range with lower damage providing water fields and boons.

Zenith.6403:

DeceiverX.8361:

The commanders know when a player is good on a ranger, thief, or anything, really so long as you’re visible, but they can easily check their damage logs to know precisely when someone isn’t good and hurting the group, and it’s the easiest to determine it as a ranger, because not many professions are so capable of killing their own allies while having that damage recorded in logs.

I’m not too familiar what stats commanders see, but I haven’t yet found a way to kill my allies when playing ranger. Is this another passive-aggressive whine from you “if Timmy wasn’t playing Ranger and was playing banner warrior instead we wouldn’t have died – he killed us !!!”

As said above, too many rangers just spam AA and RF into reflects, which some organized groups keep up permanently. The damage is reflected and doesn’t bounce between reflects, causing it to come back to your own allies. You quickly end up melting anyone not prepared to dive deep popping invulns and blocks at that exact time. Quite literally, rangers kill people. GF warrior and revenant are better-used for ranged damage because CoR isn’t a projectile and Gun Flame can be made unblockable/unreflectable with Signet of Strength.

The lack of understanding you’re displaying here and complaining about people kicking rangers for this reason is exactly the point I made above, demonstrating why people kick rangers. Easily 3/4 of the rangers in WvW play longbow and easily half of those do not understand why the set hurts more than helps.

DeceiverX.8361:

zinkz.7045:

jcbroe.4329:

I adamantly insist to my guild leader that he kick all Rangers/Druids from squad.

Which is rather short sighted, poor man management and generally counter-productive, much better to kick rangers/thieves when the squad reaches 50, with “A sorry rangers, gotta make room in the squad for these guards, etc”.

The outcome of which, to take a couple of people I know who played ranger, when the a commander who didn’t whine about rangers, thieves, etc or immediately kick them (though I am sure like every other commander he’d of preferred other classes) was having tough fights, those players would often log another class to help out, where as the commanders who whined about rangers/thieves, kicked instantly, got a "kitten you " attitude back in return and no re-logging on to another class.

While I agree more with this mentality as a means to approach raiding (I was kicked for just telling the GM of a guild that rangers would probably see use in commander sniping immediately after the CDI – and I was correct), this was addressed in his post sublty in the sense that you do not join a WvW raiding guild and then play a ranger. If you get an invite and people are otherwise fine with you playing it – I.E. you earned that right by clearly demonstrating a massive proficiency with the class (as jc did on his ranger and as I have done on my thief) – that’s when you might get the all-clear from leaders. Nobody’s entitled to tell a raiding guild how it should run its groups except for its leaders. There are some guilds where anything but a very specific comp will be a liability. This gets more and more strict as the fights get bigger and the guild gets outnumbered.

As I said initially, a lot of rangers don’t even know they’re being liabilities or refuse to accept that fact. Longbow pew pew in a large group, especially coming from PvE, has the lowest skill floor in the game. There are a lot of rangers that haven’t gotten past the open-world mentality of just unloading at a distance, and that lack of understanding gets large numbers of people killed in WvW. The commanders know when a player is good on a ranger, thief, or anything, really so long as you’re visible, but they can easily check their damage logs to know precisely when someone isn’t good and hurting the group, and it’s the easiest to determine it as a ranger, because not many professions are so capable of killing their own allies while having that damage recorded in logs.

Exactly this, thank you for elaborating that. Good to see you too btw!

@zinkz:
We run an organized guild group, not a pug group. Most of the time we aren’t even running open invite, because pugs not on VoIP are essentially wasting slots and giving them a squad slot would be reinforcing a counterproductive behavior.

So to get into our squad, you already have to be on VoIP, and then one of our party organizers asks what you’re running and will build parties accordingly to maximize the potential for the squad to be running as many effective meta groups as possible.

Generally, that means that most people get to stay in squad. At which point we ask kindly to bring a pug friendly class like Guard/Rev/Ele/Necro to maximize effectiveness potential without people having to micromanage you. If you don’t swap, again, you’re a pug on TS, so you won’t be kicked outright for being a different class, barring the situation where we’d have max squad members, which doesn’t happen (even if I tell my leader to kick people, he makes those calls, not me, he knows I’m just pointing out ineffective people).

You WILL get kicked though if you get 1-pushed constantly, don’t roll with the tag on movements in fights, or get caught doing something stupid like pew pewing into a reflect wall (pug rangers tend to be triple offenders on these things by the way). Does that make us toxic? Maybe. But we’re an organized guild group. Theres a level of expected competency, and anybody is free to tag up at anytime and take all the pugs we won’t.

There are 2 types of people; those that take criticism and use it to improve and get better, and those that reject critism and ragequit. We don’t care how many people do the latter, because we’re only looking to run with people with the former mindset.

I especially hate it when commanders are bashing my class as useless one moment and the next moment they need something from me because I’m fast and stealthy, lol. Anyway, I tend to just not follow people who are total kittens about it. I can accept that druids and thieves are being kicked out of the squad if the squad is full and I can accept some lighthearted jokes about these classes as well, but I’ve seen people who were just flat out bullying people who played thieves and druids/rangers. I tend to just leave the squad and never follow that person again if they do that. I know that to some people, this game is some kind of sport and they take it véry seriously, but I play this game to relax and have fun and I can imagine that so do quite a few others. I know I’m not going to play a class I don’t enjoy ‘just to be a true team player’. You can be a team player while still playing the class you like the most, even if that clas isn’t considered super useful, you can still be of use and aid your team.

I main a reaper, so usually people don’t really mind having me in the squad. But I also quite enjoy playing daredevil and everyone knows how people think about thieves, lol. Other than that I refuse to follow people who flat out bully other people (for whatever reason), I don’t let it get to me. Just play what you like. You play for you, not for them.

I can be playing meta and still end up leaving TS and squad because it’s annoying listening to commanders whine incessantly about non meta builds and pugs.

Many times it’s being ridiculously outnumbered or flat out commander mistakes that’s the issue and tag is just scapegoating. They get beat and freak out at medium armor classes when opposing squad prob had near the same amount.

Lot of them pull their backline into stupid stuff and slowly lose them 1 by 1 to the 10 people they ran past that are now sniping the tail with cc. A couple minutes later they’ll cry when they push with melee and backline can’t bomb effectively anymore.

There are definitely legit situations for needing meta builds only (full squad, ask nicely, organized raid w guild group, countering organized group, etc) but sometimes it’s just scapegoating

CoR can only hit 5 people max split between all 3 impacts, and 1-shot 12Ks only go off with the 50% boost, and even then it’s usually blocked or evaded. But it is priceless to watch one land.
Rapid Fire is ok at best.

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

My guess is no one disagrees that Druids/Thieves/Engins are strong in a solo/havoc roaming role or if you are scouting for zerg. That’s not the point of this thread though.

Title should read: “Ranger/Druid Not Part of Current Zerg/Blob Meta”

Artaz.3819:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

My guess is no one disagrees that Druids/Thieves/Engins are strong in a solo/havoc roaming role or if you are scouting for zerg. That’s not the point of this thread though.

Title should read: “Ranger/Druid Not Part of Current Zerg/Blob Meta”

Strong is all dependant on build. I couldn’t tell ya how many allies ive saved from being chased/stomped…etc. Im not perfect with my toon but there are ways I contribute and am getting good at it. Projectile block/field, aoe heals, CC’s. It’s all about the skill and I believe that is why they are no in the “Meta” for blobs. If we had more AOE than we would be more accepted.

Again, I have no issues. I rarely join squads unless they aim for zerg fights with capping more of a bonus. Had a commander who had a good fight last night (I actually joined the squad after cause I was unofficially with them) but he was raging hard shouting orders (not making suggestions, but literally ragging on everyone for their mistakes). Needless to say I stopped following right after. I saved him from being stomped 4 times, healed a good portion of the zerg, blocked projectiles and immobed a lot of mobile spamming enemies so our Daredevils/Zerzerkers could do their burst as well as kept small groups inside a air overload or 3.

We have the tools, but even when I fight other druids (again, im far from pro) I can point out ways they could have done better or been more effective if they done certain things at certain times (helped a few too who took my advice).

I remember on my old server there was a “class training” where a couple guilds would set up training sessions in PvP and WvW on the different combos, rotations…etc to get the most of your build. I loved the Mesmer one (this was like 2.5 yearsish ago). Its about knowing when a build can do that is holding us back from being welcomed in zergs and I can honestly say that a lot of commanders don’t know this and don’t care to know. (There are a bunch that know our potential so its not all).

People can argue this all ya want, we may not be the most useful class in a blob, but we def bring stuff to the table that can really help the group succeed.

duster.7013:

Eh they are cancer in spvp

This is one reason i play them in WvW…

Unlike spvp.. most people who play WvW dont trait for straight up troll toughness etc so rangers/druids in wvw can just mow them down. If you think they are cancer in spvp against full troll builds.. try them in WvW.. its like candy..

If you DO run into someone running a spvp build that traits for toughness etc.. then you just drag them into the zerg and let them get eaten.

Its the circle of life my friend

Artaz.3819:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Whilst I cannot complain about any “meta” as I never run meta builds or do anything meta, my druid (staff/lb) does quite well 2v1 and 3v1 and have had people invite me to their party/squad (some pugmanders, some seem organized). I guess some servers need meta to win and some don’t. Either way, ill play (and stream) my druid and have fun

My guess is no one disagrees that Druids/Thieves/Engins are strong in a solo/havoc roaming role or if you are scouting for zerg. That’s not the point of this thread though.

Title should read: “Ranger/Druid Not Part of Current Zerg/Blob Meta”

Where does skirting the outside and taking down any backline i can see… not quilify as blob/zerg meta? If you have ranged.. even elemetalists or backline revs.. they ALSO have to be on the side during the push, otherwise they are cannon fodder. The point i was making is that MOST OF THE TIME… a few druids in medium armor, with 1500 range can make or break a push.

There should never be ANY ranged on the tag at all and if you have all frontline (as some commanders seem to want to play) then you are going to lose simply because TC, unlike other servers (any server really) wants to have the old school hammer train when it just isnt viable anymore.

With increased damage and condi bombs flying all over, you need other classes to clear the condi’s and to spot heal when your elem’s die, get cc’ed etc. Yeah Guardian is great… warrior and rev for that matter too.. but having boons that get stripped/converted and no heals or ranged dps to actually bring down the horde of incoming reds just means that you might last a few seconds in an inital push.. but you will die.. its a given fact.

Frontline are meat shields… just like any other game, and their ONLY purpose is to guard the valuable players in the back, and get them into position where they can bomb.. Frontline are NOT meant to win the fight (hence the kitten damage they do because of toughness/vitality builds).

It is your backline people.. your pew pew blow em up rangers/druids, engies, elems necros and the like that win the fight for you and more commanders need to respect this.

Sometimes you have so many ranged that yes.. a few (who have the gear and are good at frontline) need to swap so you dont get bumrushed, but… making everyone (and i do mean they were calling for EVERYONE to get on frontline) is just stupid. Commanders that think that ALL you need is frontline, just simply isnt so.

So… Join together my backine friends.

Show them that WE are the ones winning the fights. Show the commanders what you can do.. show them that YOU are the one healing them, keeping them cleanesed and that YOU are the ones making the downs, not the frontline.. and we can win the day..

Or better yet.. just simply refuse to drop waters.. let the guardians heal themselves.. cleanse their own condi’s and make their own downs. It may work for a few seconds.. but as soon as they lose their rotation of cooldowns.. they will be dying and whining.

Also… Let them finish their downs also (if they actually manage to make any). I wonder how long it will take them to actually kill someone with good downed skills while the entire frontline is getting bombed by all their ranged, necros etc

trueanimus.4085:

Frontline are meat shields… just like any other game, and their ONLY purpose is to guard the valuable players in the back, and get them into position where they can bomb.. Frontline are NOT meant to win the fight (hence the kitten damage they do because of toughness/vitality builds).

It is your backline people.. your pew pew blow em up rangers/druids, engies, elems necros and the like that win the fight for you and more commanders need to respect this.

The meta you’re talking about is pretty old, pirate ship hasn’t been viable since the stability buff. All of the top tier guilds are nearly 100% frontline nowadays and pug groups are going to try and mirror those compositions.
If you don’t care enough to keep up then you should just learn to ignore/block the people pushing for it.

Wirriam.1859:

trueanimus.4085:

Frontline are meat shields… just like any other game, and their ONLY purpose is to guard the valuable players in the back, and get them into position where they can bomb.. Frontline are NOT meant to win the fight (hence the kitten damage they do because of toughness/vitality builds).

It is your backline people.. your pew pew blow em up rangers/druids, engies, elems necros and the like that win the fight for you and more commanders need to respect this.

The meta you’re talking about is pretty old, pirate ship hasn’t been viable since the stability buff. All of the top tier guilds are nearly 100% frontline nowadays and pug groups are going to try and mirror those compositions. If you don’t care enough to keep up then you should learn to ignore/block the people pushing for it.

100% correct. Pirate ship where there was a separated frontline, backline, and gank has been dead for months now. Any organized fighting guild at this point is essentially 100% frontline and some might have some mid-line frontline hybrids. But this backline you speak of doesn’t exist any more and its only natural that pugs are going to copy what the top guilds are doing. So if you want to be told your useful, make a healing spec or something. But backline LB druid is essentially useless

just don’t follow commanders that don’t want you around. In the current wvw-game usually numbers decide. Commanders that are too picky with who they want to have with them will just lose their numbers and thus the fights. I also understand that rangers/druids may have to leave the squad, if it is full and if I have to decide who gets stability, then it usually are druids/rangers/thieves last (because I just assume they will not push with the zerg), but of course they can still be helpful in zergfights if they play their role well.

Just play what you like and how you like. And if a commander tells you what to play just tell him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbfVd2bqFXg

Rink.6108:

just don’t follow commanders that don’t want you around. In the current wvw-game usually numbers decide. Commanders that are too picky with who they want to have with them will just lose their numbers and thus the fights. I also understand that rangers/druids may have to leave the squad, if it is full and if I have to decide who gets stability, then it usually are druids/rangers/thieves last (because I just assume they will not push with the zerg), but of course they can still be helpful in zergfights if they play their role well.

Just play what you like and how you like. And if a commander tells you what to play just tell him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbfVd2bqFXg

that one actually made me laugh lol

thankitten.6307:

Wirriam.1859:

trueanimus.4085:

Frontline are meat shields… just like any other game, and their ONLY purpose is to guard the valuable players in the back, and get them into position where they can bomb.. Frontline are NOT meant to win the fight (hence the kitten damage they do because of toughness/vitality builds).

It is your backline people.. your pew pew blow em up rangers/druids, engies, elems necros and the like that win the fight for you and more commanders need to respect this.

The meta you’re talking about is pretty old, pirate ship hasn’t been viable since the stability buff. All of the top tier guilds are nearly 100% frontline nowadays and pug groups are going to try and mirror those compositions. If you don’t care enough to keep up then you should learn to ignore/block the people pushing for it.

100% correct. Pirate ship where there was a separated frontline, backline, and gank has been dead for months now. Any organized fighting guild at this point is essentially 100% frontline and some might have some mid-line frontline hybrids. But this backline you speak of doesn’t exist any more and its only natural that pugs are going to copy what the top guilds are doing. So if you want to be told your useful, make a healing spec or something. But backline LB druid is essentially useless

backline doesnt exist? WTF.. seriously.. have you ever pushed on DB/JQ/MAG/YB and seen the amount of freaking red circles from necro wells, barrage like arrowcarts etc… jesus man.. get real.. Backline is alive and VERY well.. on other servers… TC is just kittened im guessing.. This is why we are always teetering between tier 1 and 2 and sometimes 3 because we get ran over in zerg fights because the melee want to showboat and try to ride the red wave… aint gonna work and thats what ive been trying to explain to people.. you need deeps to blow stuff up.. especially when 1/2 the servers melee stands in the red dots on the push and dies.

trueanimus.4085:

…lot of bubbly booble no sense…

for all the sense you write most of the time i’m pretty sure you don’t play this game from really long time ago.

Yeap, ranger and druid need more group support skills and traits, as i’m pretty sure it won’t get a boost in AoE dps.
And pets sucks in group fights as they keep dying and you can’t do anything to keep them alive.

anduriell.6280:

trueanimus.4085:

…lot of bubbly booble no sense…

for all the sense you write most of the time i’m pretty sure you don’t play this game from really long time ago.

Yeap, ranger and druid need more group support skills and traits, as i’m pretty sure it won’t get a boost in AoE dps.
And pets sucks in group fights as they keep dying and you can’t do anything to keep them alive.

We really dont need more group support skills honestly, as our main purpose is to be away from the group killing on the outside. Since the range of boons is 600 (i think) it wouldnt do us any good.

Pets are great, if you use them correctly. If you know your pet is going to die if it runs in.. use a ranged pet. If you need to clear marks etc.. use a melee pet then swap to ranged. I use the wyvren becuase they can do the aoe fire thing and while they are in the air it not only clears marks but they are invul to all damage.. yes.. he will die as soon as he hits the ground again.. but there is a 4 second window where he clears everything and takes no damage. Then i just swap back to my ranged pet and keep dpsing.

Aoe dps really isnt all that great, thats why when i use it i just call cripple in front… slowing the runners down so the rest of the zerg can actually catch up to them works pretty well although no one seems to give anyone credit for it. Elems have static, DH has gates.. but yeah.. you can see those too well and step around them. Barrage you cant see and it cripples every second that they are in it.

I would like to see rapid fire get more condi’s or maybe a base damage upgrade. I think that alone would pull us up to level with the rest of the classes since everyone seems to think its low dps.. Hitting 5 people at 1500 range for up to 15-20k (or sometimes more depending on debuffs) every 8 seconds (traited) seems to work very well for me though… however ill take any buff they want to throw in.

Honestly though.. we are one of the best support classes when in druid form. I can stand under 4 arrow carts and heal people on rams/catas with my water skills and keep them cleansed and healed if i have people blasting with me. When it comes down to it.. water and healing is the only really important skill we need in a group.

Our waters (as druid if traited) also give you an extra heal for every tick, if you hit something and it also blinds the target and our AOE heal covers everyone around us and is mobile, so we can heal on the retreat, not to mention the flower line staff 5 that heals if someone shoots through it.

I think we do pretty good and have a lot to offer a full zerg or even a small havoc if played well. You just have to be verbal, call your waters when you drop. Get in and out and yell for blasts.. let people know there is life saving water down that also cleanses conditions.

trueanimus.4085:

…bubble bubble…

yeh sure. Whatever you say. Just try to actually play with the class in wvw so your comments have some sense.

Here i’m talking about a player that goes with his guild, team or zerg.
Pets die while you have them in passive, not attacking, just from the random AoE from a group bigger than 7 enemies. In the ranger forums it’s already explained why so i’ll not repeat myself.

15-20k RF to enemies only happens to pve mobs. You’ll never reach that against another player. Not even half most of the time. Again this is a wvw forum, i think you are in the wrong place.

And last and foremost: Druid to heal does no damage mainly because there is no stat combinations for healing and because the damage from the druid skills and weapons sucks bad and there is no way to increase that.

Dude seriously just play with ranger\druid in wvw and you will see it’s not as easy as it seems. At least to be able to defeat anything other than the doylaks. You would’t be the first i met that try out the druid for 2 hours and go back to their thief\ele\revenant.

anduriell.6280:

trueanimus.4085:

…bubble bubble…

yeh sure. Whatever you say. Just try to actually play with the class in wvw so your comments have some sense.

Here i’m talking about a player that goes with his guild, team or zerg.
Pets die while you have them in passive, not attacking, just from the random AoE from a group bigger than 7 enemies. In the ranger forums it’s already explained why so i’ll not repeat myself.

15-20k RF to enemies only happens to pve mobs. You’ll never reach that against another player. Not even half most of the time. Again this is a wvw forum, i think you are in the wrong place.

And last and foremost: Druid to heal does no damage mainly because there is no stat combinations for healing and because the damage from the druid skills and weapons sucks bad and there is no way to increase that.

Dude seriously just play with ranger\druid in wvw and you will see it’s not as easy as it seems. At least to be able to defeat anything other than the doylaks. You would’t be the first i met that try out the druid for 2 hours and go back to their thief\ele\revenant.

1. i have played ranger since i came back last may.. then druid since it was introduced. I am full glass dps druid btw.

2. pets dont always die.. especially ranged ones if your skirting the zerg correctly.. I use melee pets only for clearing marks or single stray targets (the knockdown is nice). If your standing in red.. and your pet dies.. yeah your playing it wrong. and NEVER have your pet on passive… thats just killing your dps. Not every pet runs into the zerg.. like the bristleback for example.. he never goes more than 10m in front of you and shoots 1200 range and his skill is something like 1400 x (10) if im not mistaken. Almost as hard as our base RF without bonuses.

3. 15-20k is on squishies sometimes more depending no how squishy they really are.. One rapid fire can burn a necros shroud completely off and take at least half their health and thats from 1500 range where i am in no danger at all from anything that they can hit me with.. you do the math. Then i can usually finish them as they run for 3-4k auto attacks while i wait for RF to come back up. Knockback also stops them in their tracks for a second as well and allows time for that second RF. Just as an example. On a heavy tank target i can get at least 1/2 if not 3/4 of thier HP.. Yes i cant down them in 1 RF like many clothies, but come on.. from 1500 range i think getting them down to 1/4 hp is pretty kitten good. They heal and then i usually knockback barrage and finish them on the second RF. Those heavies you see dropping in front of the zerg when we engage… thats us rangers burning them down before you even land a blow.

The point that i am making is that it sounds like YOU need to try ranger/druid.. to see that the comments i have made are actually true. you know nothing of the playstyle or the dps/heals we can pump out. The people that try it and go back to other classes dont know how to play it correctly im guessing.. standing in red, letting their pets die on inc etc… thats just bad playstyle. You have to consider yourself a heavy glass cannon. Swap to staff only as emergency heals and to have an escape route. I can wisp through an entire zerg clash and be on the other side and live if i get cornered. I always try and aim for well or a water dropped from our team also so i get not only the initial heal from my skill, but also the bonus of whatever i land on.

Oh and BTW… any class that has a heal does the same amount of healing. If you are an elem for example… you drop a water from more than 600 range and you add NO healing to the people that blast it. It is a baseline heal. Yes.. people who are CLOSE to you (within 600 range) get a small added bonus to the heal you apply, but only while you are in range and it is very very small. How many staff elem do you see that run into the frontline of a charge, drop a water so you get the bonus and then live? None? Thats what i thought.

So.. my waters are just as powerful (if not more powerful for the extra heal on hit and the blind of target) and i can apply that from 1200 range via staff through target heals my staff 1 and 5 wall and i can run in and drop a wellsrping that doesn’t trigger immediately unless someone is taking damage, and groups can set up attacks knowing where the heal will be by leading them to the big green circle!

trueanimus.4085:

Oh and BTW… any class that has a heal does the same amount of healing. If you are an elem for example… you drop a water from more than 600 range and you add NO healing to the people that blast it. It is a baseline heal. Yes.. people who are CLOSE to you (within 600 range) get a small added bonus to the heal you apply, but only while you are in range and it is very very small. How many staff elem do you see that run into the frontline of a charge, drop a water so you get the bonus and then live? None? Thats what i thought.

So.. my waters are just as powerful (if not more powerful for the extra heal on hit and the blind of target) and i can apply that from 1200 range via staff through target heals my staff 1 and 5 wall and i can run in and drop a wellsrping that doesn’t trigger immediately unless someone is taking damage, and groups can set up attacks knowing where the heal will be by leading them to the big green circle!

You understand that frontline ele is a thing, right? My full heal set does so much healing it practically doesn’t even need to be blasted.

Also, what “bonus” within 600 range are you talking about specifically? I honest;y don’t think you’ve ever played ele enough to understand it.

lol everyone hate ranger. (druid still has better situation than ranger tho) some even want ranger to be removed.

I dont know, I will just use ranger and kill them all.

This is a never ending debate xD

As it stands, druid will never be “meta” for WvW blobs which is probably for the best as I don’t do “meta” personally.

I will continue to just sit behind the enemy zerg and pick off just about anyone who died and tries to return, reducing the overall size of the zerg 1-3 ppl at a time (in some cases yes 3). Im ok with not being “meta”, just means ppl won’t expect me when going zvz. The most dangerous thing one can do is underestimating their opponents(s).

;)

People should play what they like . I hate melee classes , so i don’t play it . You don’t want me in your zerg… i go to roam … or i follow in any case. It is not important what a commander says or thinks . People should understand that with a such elitist approch their server will lose lot of players … I don’t win money on this game and it is not a job. If i play, i want to play what let have me fun . If you don’t like …. sorry …

Ranger will never be meta. This coming from someone who has played ranger since released. Played as gank in multiple guilds in multiple servers. Reached legend in pvp in every season multiple times. Done any non raid PvE content (swapped to rev for that cause I don’t wanna be a healer >.<).

So I know ranger. And as probably a few of you can attest I at least have a SLIGHT competence with the class.

Play the build for its strengths. What a “dps druid” is, is a skilled self reliant unit. When played properly it doesn’t need anyone to buff them. Anyone to stealth them. Anyone to heal them. It is capable of each of these things. We are more self buff capable than any other class currently.

We can excel in small scale content. Whether that is knocking a necro away from his zerg and quickly nuking him down forcing his allies to save him before we stealth and leave or finish him with a stomp. Or scouting ahead of our zerg (ya know…ranging around. Like the class name ACTUALLY implies none of this sniper bullkitten). Or even moving slightly BEHIND our zerg to protect those that are falling behind.

These are useful tools. And the zerg can be better for them. That doesn’t mean the squad leader should bend himself over to accommodate us however. Hell BECAUSE of how were set up we can handle not being in the squad at all far better than most classes can. And can successfully 1v1 anything that tries to hit us as were shadowing the zerg itself.

Stop thinking like some god tier sniper. Our class is designed to be standalone. But we also have the ability to save friendlies (celestial shadow, guard, protect me and other skills that help get a friendly out of danger) We do enough damage to pressure enemy gank off an ally and even kill them if they don’t retreat. Buying time for that ally to get to the zerg for saftey.

And we have the CC and burst necessary to isolate and kill an exposed target without needing someone else to cover for us.

Hoping for us to get the ability to fire into zergs willy nilly and get kills is…kind of stupid and horrendously unfair to other classes.

Ranger is STRONG in what it does. Try doing that instead of trying to force some arbitrary definition onto the class.