Guild Wars 2

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

500+ units? Def no 500+ units where I am/fight mate. You don’t know about me and how I play. There is many times where I am up front with the tag (when I am not tagging up myself, where I typically stay in front as well). This is a perfect example of some people not realizing/knowing that some druids actually know how to play their part. I don’t usually stay at “pirate ship range” mate. More often than not I’m close to, if not up front, which if not, then I’m around mid. I can’t pick off backline peeps if I am playing in my backline.

I also tend to kite their frontline to a choke point so my guys and start rolstomping their frontline while I go ahead and chase/down their backline/aoe peeps.

I understand that there are a lot of baddies out there, however there are some actual druids that have a clue and do know how to work their build where it’s not all about selfishness. It’s also the druid hate that drives me to keep playing it and getting better to the point that I’ve saved so many people from being stomped/DPS’d down that I saved those haters.

Cheers Mate.

Original intention of this topic was way different I guess, and it turned into a guild/server fight or something else.

Ranger, master of ranged combat, expert marksman, sucks. Why? First of all it is designed for solo play. Second, in many games ranged combat frustrates and attracts hatred from other players when they die (snipers, archers etc.).

And in this game medium armor professions feel better for roaming. They are my favourite (or were before HoT) but they are not as zergy as others. And especially after HoT projectile hate spam, rangers/druids are having a hard time in wvw. Still in my opinion we are very useful, sniping staff ele’s/necro’s from range, pressuring other players, bugging frontliners and so on. I am playing on a medium/low tier wvw server and with all this ranger hate/projectile hate/anet malfunction, I still cannot quit playing the profession.

If you hate rangers/druids, do not play. If you love it, play. If your commander does not like you, roam or play as an add-on to the zerg. I say “meh”. A good commander would always find a use for every profession.

Keep on shooting brothers.
May your arrow always find your target.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

500+ units? Def no 500+ units where I am/fight mate. You don’t know about me and how I play. There is many times where I am up front with the tag (when I am not tagging up myself, where I typically stay in front as well). This is a perfect example of some people not realizing/knowing that some druids actually know how to play their part. I don’t usually stay at “pirate ship range” mate. More often than not I’m close to, if not up front, which if not, then I’m around mid. I can’t pick off backline peeps if I am playing in my backline.

I also tend to kite their frontline to a choke point so my guys and start rolstomping their frontline while I go ahead and chase/down their backline/aoe peeps.

I understand that there are a lot of baddies out there, however there are some actual druids that have a clue and do know how to work their build where it’s not all about selfishness. It’s also the druid hate that drives me to keep playing it and getting better to the point that I’ve saved so many people from being stomped/DPS’d down that I saved those haters.

Cheers Mate.

This is actually the exact mentality that I fear. Sure you get a few druids who can group combat on a server sure they do their part but even doing well they just barely carry their weight. And then just like you say, all the baddies this encourages to stay on classes and builds not worth it.

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

500+ units? Def no 500+ units where I am/fight mate. You don’t know about me and how I play. There is many times where I am up front with the tag (when I am not tagging up myself, where I typically stay in front as well). This is a perfect example of some people not realizing/knowing that some druids actually know how to play their part. I don’t usually stay at “pirate ship range” mate. More often than not I’m close to, if not up front, which if not, then I’m around mid. I can’t pick off backline peeps if I am playing in my backline.

I also tend to kite their frontline to a choke point so my guys and start rolstomping their frontline while I go ahead and chase/down their backline/aoe peeps.

I understand that there are a lot of baddies out there, however there are some actual druids that have a clue and do know how to work their build where it’s not all about selfishness. It’s also the druid hate that drives me to keep playing it and getting better to the point that I’ve saved so many people from being stomped/DPS’d down that I saved those haters.

Cheers Mate.

This is actually the exact mentality that I fear. Sure you get a few druids who can group combat on a server sure they do their part but even doing well they just barely carry their weight. And then just like you say, all the baddies this encourages to stay on classes and builds not worth it.

Agree somewhat but there are a ton of baddies that get on guards and think they’re good at it because they one pushed a few groups they had numbers on. When they yolo into groups they obviously can’t handle, they blame the backline…that is usually flipping around like mad because some genius in full nomads dragged them into twice their number…swinging a loot stick like they’re mowing the lawn. Catch is they’re critting for 150.

Tldr point in most fights it just doesn’t matter. If you’re losing your either outnumbered, pugs vs guild group or you moved up from a lower tier.

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

500+ units? Def no 500+ units where I am/fight mate. You don’t know about me and how I play. There is many times where I am up front with the tag (when I am not tagging up myself, where I typically stay in front as well). This is a perfect example of some people not realizing/knowing that some druids actually know how to play their part. I don’t usually stay at “pirate ship range” mate. More often than not I’m close to, if not up front, which if not, then I’m around mid. I can’t pick off backline peeps if I am playing in my backline.

I also tend to kite their frontline to a choke point so my guys and start rolstomping their frontline while I go ahead and chase/down their backline/aoe peeps.

I understand that there are a lot of baddies out there, however there are some actual druids that have a clue and do know how to work their build where it’s not all about selfishness. It’s also the druid hate that drives me to keep playing it and getting better to the point that I’ve saved so many people from being stomped/DPS’d down that I saved those haters.

Cheers Mate.

This is actually the exact mentality that I fear. Sure you get a few druids who can group combat on a server sure they do their part but even doing well they just barely carry their weight. And then just like you say, all the baddies this encourages to stay on classes and builds not worth it.

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

DeeSystm.1256:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Whilst I may not feel the same way (Yeah right, I totally do), I agree with what is being said.

If you’re gunna call the group comp running 500+ units ahead of you taking everything on “greedy” while you pew pew at pirate ship range “collecting bags” from tags, then y’all lost in here, druid sickness is real atm.

500+ units? Def no 500+ units where I am/fight mate. You don’t know about me and how I play. There is many times where I am up front with the tag (when I am not tagging up myself, where I typically stay in front as well). This is a perfect example of some people not realizing/knowing that some druids actually know how to play their part. I don’t usually stay at “pirate ship range” mate. More often than not I’m close to, if not up front, which if not, then I’m around mid. I can’t pick off backline peeps if I am playing in my backline.

I also tend to kite their frontline to a choke point so my guys and start rolstomping their frontline while I go ahead and chase/down their backline/aoe peeps.

I understand that there are a lot of baddies out there, however there are some actual druids that have a clue and do know how to work their build where it’s not all about selfishness. It’s also the druid hate that drives me to keep playing it and getting better to the point that I’ve saved so many people from being stomped/DPS’d down that I saved those haters.

Cheers Mate.

This is actually the exact mentality that I fear. Sure you get a few druids who can group combat on a server sure they do their part but even doing well they just barely carry their weight. And then just like you say, all the baddies this encourages to stay on classes and builds not worth it.

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate.

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

Must be the good thing about the tiers ive been in for the last few months…Maybe none have been that wise to do so. 11k – 12k (backline) and 8k (frontline average) rapid fire every 8 seconds to 5 ppl at a time up to 1500 units (after starting with a barrage to negate some front lines aegis). I suppose 8 seconds is a fairly long cooldown for that much damage, standing front to mid.

Seems like another agree to disagree case here.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

The ranger is fine. The ranger’s frontline is what’s kittened :P

smurf, barrage doesn’t really do that much damage to a frontline or zerg-based group. They should be out-healing it almost passively. Again, I think this issue is a lack of understanding of just how far organized play counters the longbow and makes it self-inflicting in most cases.

Why is this thread not dead, it’s as simple as this.

A Commander may choose what classes he/she wants in his/her Squad, if you do not like it tag up and run your squad the way you like.

The ranger is fine. The ranger’s frontline is what’s kittened :P

smurf, barrage doesn’t really do that much damage to a frontline or zerg-based group. They should be out-healing it almost passively. Again, I think this issue is a lack of understanding of just how far organized play counters the longbow and makes it self-inflicting in most cases.

Barrage is to help strip aegis, not really for damage, that’s kinda my strategy behind that

While I understand (and not arguing) that frontline druid/ranger is kittened (in fact I agree almost 100%), and there are better classes that do certain things, however for what the ranger/druid has to offer reminds me of an engi…jack of all trades sort of deal.

I don’t always stay in front most of the fight, however I do typically start at the, or near to, the front (mid fight I stay near the mid, or close enough to pierce to their backline). There is projectile hate (which once up, im quick to swap weps and once down I swap back) but not everyone in a zerg runs it (which is where selective targeting comes in).

My overall debate, is that druids are not useless and can carry their weight in a ZvZ if/when played right with a set up / build that is based around it (or close to). Im not saying that druids are or should be the #1 pick, but not to be scoffed at either. This is what I set out to prove when I roam in WvW and find a ZvZ, and from the outcomes and positive things said to me (even when im streaming/recording for references), I am one that does carry my weight for what I bring. I do see my fair share of bad druids that are clueless and druids that are great (these I love to see/face as I learn from them).

All in all, if a Druid knows how it works, and is having a good run in working it, then druids can be a valuable ally in a ZvZ (again, not stating #1 but at the same time, its not at the bottom and if a player knows how to play in a ZvZ setting, then they should be regarded as valuable).

That’s all I am trying to get at.

Anywho, fight the good fight guys, time to jump in WvW now I am revved up for some fun

Ranger isn’t fine. Anet doesn’t care. What’s new?

I think blindly following a “meta” just because other people say so as a self-imposed authority is a dumb thing. I also think that the current game design is dumb and causes exclusion. I think that blaming people for not going by whatever you were trying to plan is also dumb and generally a form of projection. I don’t like to comment on the way people want to play usually and don’t think kicking from squads is a great idea. And finally, I think the average skill level isn’t that high thanks to the game’s tendency to favor numbers so honestly you could get away with whatever you’re doing if you practice enough. It’s a game, have fun, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change certain matters.

I can’t really buy the “haven’t met a really good druid” question. It would seem to me that it would have shown in the meta since good players tend to force the meta in their direction. That just seems to be a case of proving a negative, which isn’t possible. It’d be fine if people were provide evidence in that regards but I can’t really say I’ve seen anything beyond theorycrafting.

There’s also the possibility that the player is carrying the class, not the other way around. So any of the “fight me bro” things isn’t really going to show much. I know of a druid player who is very impressive and is one of the best players I’ve ever seen and while he can certainly hold his own in fights of any kind, even he admits there’s certain limitations in ZvZ much to my disappointment but that’s just how it is. And here we have posters here that I have read their posts in the ranger subforum posting here and I am aware that they are incredibly knowledgeable about the class as well since I’ve learned quite a few things from them. It’s in my best interest that every class is fun to play and has roles everywhere but we’re not there yet.

In that case, I don’t have much argument for or against, but as an unknown, there’s no way to make that assumption for people.

One of the things I feel that people are getting triggered about is that somehow all of this means that if you’re a druid, you’re a bad player. I’m sure there’s a lot of parrots that do believe that, and there’s where most of the rage happens but when sensible people talk, it doesn’t really mean that at all. Not running a meta class doesn’t mean anything about your own personal skill level in and of itself. But your performance is ultimately limited by the tool you are using.

What is true though is that in most cases, it’s that baddies will be baddies and you’re 99.9% better off telling them to get on a Rev or something because they’ll be more effective and have a higher floor. At worst, they’ll just die but at least they won’t do massive damage when they unload off into a reflect. So as for those organized runs that are taking random people, that’s simply as much risk you could take.

It’s entirely possible that you are the one special snowflake that will kill anyone on any class on any build. But as a stranger, why would you expect people to know that? You need to earn that respect before people give you that benefit of the doubt.

I mean look at scrappers. I think I can do pretty well with them in ZvZ and they even have their own metabattle page on zergs. And as for the aforementioned “Druid”, I’ve pulled off some nice performances with them too when I’m running around on them and zerg merged because I’m smart enough not to shoot into reflects. But…. it’s hard for me to conceive of where these could outclass GREN in. Hell, when even warriors are becoming a marginalized choice when they are capable of bringing so much, what chance do the rest have in this push meta?

Nuzt.7894:

Why is this thread not dead, it’s as simple as this.

A Commander may choose what classes he/she wants in his/her Squad, if you do not like it tag up and run your squad the way you like.

Simply because on TC we are low pop (even though we are tier 1 or sometimes 2). For a commander or any commander, to yell and scream at people, kick them out of squad for playing what they like ( when we are winning actually ), call them worthless mouth breathers, morons etc… for an almost all melee zerg with one (yes ONE) elementalist just so they can stream on twitch and try to look like a bad kitten while he runs in circles dying (which is pure and simple public humiliation and shaming when they act like this where the world can see it on twitchtv) is unacceptable as well as purely wrong thinking as to how the game actually works and common decency.

The offending commander was asked several times to tone it down (in TS and even in meetings) because, i mean seriously… you just dont treat people like this. In one server meeting he was cursing people out left and right and calling even the server leaders of TC mouth breathers etc.. and no one seemed to care.

He only started focusing on me after i defended others he had kicked from squad (he had kicked 2 necros and an engineer i know specifically that were really good backliners) and when i asked him on teamspeak why they were kicked, they started kicking me and making comments about rangers (which continued for over a month every time i would zone into the map.)

They mainly would start laughing at an arguement that was started one night when i killed some duelers and asked them several times to move the duels to OS, off EB or a guild hall or at LEAST out near the south camp at the wind mill. I kill anyone dueling on a live map.. If you want to duel, there are plenty of other places to do it besides right at SMC where you contest the keep if you get too close. A live warzone is not a place to duel.. take that crap somewhere else.

The reasons that were given throughout this thread show just how narcissistic the guy actually was and why they eventually left the server. Even though i found out later that JQ actually paid around 30,000 gold to transfer them to JQ even THOUGH…. the population of JQ server BEGGED the server leaders NOT TO. (dont believe me..? read jadequarry.com)

The funniest part of it is… the main commander that i am speaking of.. got STUCK on TC because they closed the transfer window. (this part still makes me giggle a little) even though he has an alt there (which he plays and i have killed) and one more on BG (or db.. i forget which)

They got mad… really mad because time after time my friends and I have proved that every class has a place in a zerg.. not just melee. They complain about rangers and backline.. yet they run TONS of it on JQ along with open field siege etc.

But.. even with all that aside.. i have kept this going simply because i just reply now and then to them as they continue to troll this post, cry when i kill them in WVW (so many hate tells when i kill them.. lol ) and even made troll guilds on JQ (the [true] guild) to try and kill me, which i find hilarious.

If a commander asks.. there are always people willing to swap classes etc.. but to throw ranged and healers completely out of the picture and run only melee is just silly. I paid for the game and i play how i want, just like everyone else. To be honest, most of the times i followed him was ONLY because there were no other tags on the map or any map for that matter.. so it was run solo, which i almost never do… tag up, which i hate to do.. or follow a commander and get bags.. which would you have done?

ArchonWing.9480:

I think blindly following a “meta” just because other people say so as a self-imposed authority is a dumb thing. I also think that the current game design is dumb and causes exclusion. I think that blaming people for not going by whatever you were trying to plan is also dumb and generally a form of projection. I don’t like to comment on the way people want to play usually and don’t think kicking from squads is a great idea. And finally, I think the average skill level isn’t that high thanks to the game’s tendency to favor numbers so honestly you could get away with whatever you’re doing if you practice enough. It’s a game, have fun, etc, etc. But that doesn’t change certain matters.

Aye.. play what you want… but play what your good at. If your good at melee.. by all means play that.. but im really good at ranger and i like the playstyle so i play that.

I agree that some classes can do better than some in certian situations, but i bring a lot to the table with druid and i know how to use it well.. Sticking me on a class a i know nothing about nor like in the least was not a solution and one i was unwilling to do.

The whole meta thing is ludicrous especially when most of the time TC only has enough people to fill one, maybe two maps at the best. Now.. if we had all 4 maps qued and 99% of the zerg was rangers.. of course.. ask people to change etc.. but yelling at people and shaming them just because you think your some kitten just because you run a twitch stream (and die constantly on it btw) is just stupid.

It not only makes you yourself look bad, but also the rest of the team, the players and even the gamebase as a whole. And lets be honest too.. at this point in the games life, four years in, the only people that were watching his stream was the other team we were playing so they could see our movements. He wasnt going to become so pewdeepie starlet or anything.. he was just being a prick. Someone needed to stand up to him.. and i did and i caught slack from his guild.. whoop de doo.

I defend my friends and the players in this game that are enjoying it. It is after all.. a game. You come here to have fun.. DO THAT.. play and have fun! Yes.. there are some baddies that play.. but if they are forced into whatever someone else wants them on, they never have fun and will never learn to play anything they like well enough… and then what happens.. people leave.. like they did on TC because of all this mess.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Ranger isn’t fine. Anet doesn’t care. What’s new?

Ranger is ok.. but you have to play as intended.. and they have said several times that ranger is intended to be the sniper class.

You just have to learn when and what to do.. Just take your time with it and learn it.. its fun as heck. I love mine.

After all.. thats all we play this game for right.. fun!!

Are there some things i would change.. yes.. More damage is always what people want and the healing nerf hit some playstyles (mainly bunker druids) really hard.. but once again, the main focus for druid/ranger has always been sniper.

Just learn to play how you like and you will have fun with it, no matter what class or what anyone says.

Enjoy it.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

The ranger is fine. The ranger’s frontline is what’s kittened :P

smurf, barrage doesn’t really do that much damage to a frontline or zerg-based group. They should be out-healing it almost passively. Again, I think this issue is a lack of understanding of just how far organized play counters the longbow and makes it self-inflicting in most cases.

Barrage is to help strip aegis, not really for damage, that’s kinda my strategy behind that

While I understand (and not arguing) that frontline druid/ranger is kittened (in fact I agree almost 100%), and there are better classes that do certain things, however for what the ranger/druid has to offer reminds me of an engi…jack of all trades sort of deal.

I don’t always stay in front most of the fight, however I do typically start at the, or near to, the front (mid fight I stay near the mid, or close enough to pierce to their backline). There is projectile hate (which once up, im quick to swap weps and once down I swap back) but not everyone in a zerg runs it (which is where selective targeting comes in).

My overall debate, is that druids are not useless and can carry their weight in a ZvZ if/when played right with a set up / build that is based around it (or close to). Im not saying that druids are or should be the #1 pick, but not to be scoffed at either. This is what I set out to prove when I roam in WvW and find a ZvZ, and from the outcomes and positive things said to me (even when im streaming/recording for references), I am one that does carry my weight for what I bring. I do see my fair share of bad druids that are clueless and druids that are great (these I love to see/face as I learn from them).

All in all, if a Druid knows how it works, and is having a good run in working it, then druids can be a valuable ally in a ZvZ (again, not stating #1 but at the same time, its not at the bottom and if a player knows how to play in a ZvZ setting, then they should be regarded as valuable).

That’s all I am trying to get at.

Anywho, fight the good fight guys, time to jump in WvW now I am revved up for some fun

again.. well said smurfy

Druid always have a place .. the same as anyone else… if they take time to learn the ins and outs of the class and they can be deadly!

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

Must be the good thing about the tiers ive been in for the last few months…Maybe none have been that wise to do so. 11k – 12k (backline) and 8k (frontline average) rapid fire every 8 seconds to 5 ppl at a time up to 1500 units (after starting with a barrage to negate some front lines aegis). I suppose 8 seconds is a fairly long cooldown for that much damage, standing front to mid.

Seems like another agree to disagree case here.

Hey smurf… i love where he says longbow doesnt work against organized groups lol.. that made me giggle.. I mean come on..

Their zerg standing there enpowering, stacked ready to charge, two druids jump up (from our lines) and barrage them, rapid fire into them and they turn and run because they see 2-3 of their backline drop instantly (i know you have seen me and catt and others do this so many times on TC) and the enemy zerg freaks out, scatter and try to regroup… its comedy gold. Meanwhile, our main tanks see the downs, yell CHARGE!!! and we mow them over like bowling pins..

Am i bout right smurf ? heh

trueanimus.4085:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

Must be the good thing about the tiers ive been in for the last few months…Maybe none have been that wise to do so. 11k – 12k (backline) and 8k (frontline average) rapid fire every 8 seconds to 5 ppl at a time up to 1500 units (after starting with a barrage to negate some front lines aegis). I suppose 8 seconds is a fairly long cooldown for that much damage, standing front to mid.

Seems like another agree to disagree case here.

Hey smurf… i love where he says longbow doesnt work against organized groups lol.. that made me giggle.. I mean come on..

Their zerg standing there enpowering, stacked ready to charge, two druids jump up (from our lines) and barrage them, rapid fire into them and they turn and run because they see 2-3 of their backline drop instantly (i know you have seen me and catt and others do this so many times on TC) and the enemy zerg freaks out, scatter and try to regroup… its comedy gold. Meanwhile, our main tanks see the downs, yell CHARGE!!! and we mow them over like bowling pins..

Am i bout right smurf ? heh

Barrage and then rapid fire……. because nothing says surprise burst like 2 channeled skills that take roughly 5 seconds to deal their damage.

And let’s just say you do manage to land every hit, you better hope the group your firing into doesn’t have retal up (which is 100% uptime as soon as a zerg starts fighting) because you just took 110 hits from retal over that 5 seconds which is death to a glass ranger.

But that’s okay, if your tactic of depending on the enemy zerg to be sleeping doesn’t work you can go back to “running to the side of the zerg to sacrifice yourself”, because using your ranger to repeatedly die in a zerg fight will really show everyone that rangers aren’t free bags in a zerg fight…… smh

The “META” is created by guild leaders and commanders that either have never played a ranger for any extensive time, if at all . Go to any website that has builds set up for different classes and you’ll be hard pressed to find a ranger/druid build let alone a decent one for PvP or WvW.Lots for Guard, Elementalist,Necro,Theif,Mesmer.It’s a preconceived notion that Ranger/Druids have no place WvW based on 4 years of consistent hatred and bias.
Now we that main on ranger are starting to put together competitive builds like the bunker druid and people freak out and get it nerfed.They can’t handle the thought that they got their butts handed to them by a ranger.Or they get mad because they got “pew pewed” or pin sniped by “OH NO This cant be right” a ranger.Another one is “I got condi pawned by a trapper ranger that I couldn’t see” so lets do something about trapper runes.Or nerf the pets because its like fighting 3 people at once.Believe me I’ve heard it all .Your bias has set your sites on the ranger getting killed in battle so that’s all you see.
I’m not a great player but I’ve run Ranger main for years and can give many people pretty good fight considering my age and physical condition.Even wrecked a few people running on “meta builds”.
So I don’t care about “your Meta” because it’s only as good as the people sitting behind the keyboards.

Or, you know, the longbow itself is designed poorly to work in large scale combat and those insisting that it isn’t have a poor understanding of large-scale combat, and that boons and tanky boon builds, and subsequently the bunker druid, are actually just objectively overpowered when in small-scale.

Mokk, this thread isn’t about small scale fights. It’s about blobs. That’s why the OP is upset and why commanders kick rangers and druids. In 50v50, if not played by an excellent player who deliberately does not run longbow (which in it of itself is like what, 5% of the ranger playerbase currently in WvW?), it strictly hurts the zerg. A longbow ranger/druid that plays poorly is the single worst thing that can be invited to a blob, even worse than a thief that plays poorly, which offers no support and will instantly die as soon as groups connect.

People aren’t talking about rangers/druids who might “give a good fight” or 1v3 and win on occasion. Quickry usually wins 6+v1. Bunker Druid is literally the best small-scale build in the game right now. Not “okay” not “decent” and definitely not “bad”. In small-scale, it is one of the best if not the best builds to run when roaming alone or in very small groups unless being obnoxious like mass-stealth condi mes ganks, but that’s another story.

The overarching WvW blob meta is so much more substantial and strict than small-scale play. If not for the stealth attack ICD applied to thieves, I’d still be using the single worst thief build in the game, playing without Daredevil, and still killing people. Small-scale is overall fairly loose (though dueling is horrible atm) when it comes to balance and the impact of the “meta” on it. Simply put, every and any facet of the ranger/druid can be replaced by somethinh else, done better, when in WvW blobs, and people playing longbow shooting into reflects and killing their own allies have put a stain on the profession. Stop playing longbow and play a proper build to augment what the zerg needs, and you’ll probably stop getting kicked if you just tell the commander upfront you’re not running berserker longbow pewpew.

Continued from the above, I do not think there is such a thing as an excellent ranger in WvW zergs. I don’t care how good the player is. There is too much visual clutter to even know half the time if your hits are going to get reflected, and standing idly waiting/unsure is literally worse than not being there in most cases, since you’re probably taking someone else’s boon priority who probably could be more useful. Stripping Aegis as true said does nothing but potentially help the enemy since revenant CR procs won’t happen on CoR without blocks and negation. The pet is dead weight and purposeless by far and large in ZvZ. Stealth is insignificant because it means you’re not attacking.

And then you have the ranger/druid community getting up in arms about how it’s not fair their favorite build isn’t viable and to then start blaming the commanders and serious WvW players for being mean when they get kicked or when people tell them to swap. I understand people want to play how they want – I got kicked from a GvG guild for just being a ranger when not in WvW, and the GM was totally in the wrong to do so, but the fact is simply that the profession itself is not good for ZvZ in most cases, and serious commanders want to win. They’re taking time and spending tons of money on siege, talking over voice chat for hours on end with total strangers to lead them to have a good time. If you can’t deal with the fact that maybe they don’t want to lessen their chances of winning because it’ll make it all meaningless, all I can say is that you’re either so selfish or self-absorbed you’re not the kind of person I’d want to play alongside with in any circumstance.

Like I said in one of my first posts, you either to prove your worth as people have with some degree of conformity and purpose by either accepting the weakness in your kit/build and using it in other ways or changing it to conform with what the commander wants you to (I personally have commanded subgroups alongside the main blob of non-zerg built players to take smaller objectives, scout, and distract the enemy while the main group fights or takes keeps etc.) or become the lone-standing exception on your server at an appropriate time. Unfortunately for longbow pewpew ranger/druid, I simply don’t think this weapon in the current game state will enable anyone to prove their worth as such just because like I said, either you’re attacking/supporting or you’re not, and if you’re not attacking/supporting, you’re pretty much a waste of a party/squad slot in mass-scale.

It’s basically thief syndrome except thieves all know they cannot put up a meaningful argument as to why they should be taken in zergs (in the current meta with HoT powercreep and nerfs to controlling venoms, that is). It isn’t fair, and it sucks, but you can’t blame commanders. You can blame ANet for putting in too much projectile hate or making LB/ranged damage too safe, or pets contributing to bad habits in PvE, or so many other things, but you can’t attribute getting kicked or being the target of scolding to re-roll when blobbing to misconduct by commanders/players in general.

This thread is full of complete BS, we need a moderator to burn it to ashes.

I honestly can’t believe someone said ranger was highest DPS when played right.

DeceiverX.8361:

And then you have the ranger/druid community getting up in arms about how it’s not fair their favorite build isn’t viable and to then start blaming the commanders and serious WvW players for being mean when they get kicked…….

Just want to point out there have been a number of ranger mains in this thread pointing out that rapid firing into a zerg doesn’t make ranger good in ZvZ’s, myself included.

However rangers are fantastic for harassing the kitten out of their back line and cutting off the players trying to run back to the fight. It’s funny as kitten to tap the enemy keep and position yourself in the path back to the fight, if the zerglings try to fight you can easily keep 5+ busy without a problem, if they just try and run past without rescuing their buddies you will kill a good 50% of them or more.

Jim Hunter.6821:

DeceiverX.8361:

And then you have the ranger/druid community getting up in arms about how it’s not fair their favorite build isn’t viable and to then start blaming the commanders and serious WvW players for being mean when they get kicked…….

Just want to point out there have been a number of ranger mains in this thread pointing out that rapid firing into a zerg doesn’t make ranger good in ZvZ’s, myself included.

However rangers are fantastic for harassing the kitten out of their back line and cutting off the players trying to run back to the fight. It’s funny as kitten to tap the enemy keep and position yourself in the path back to the fight, if the zerglings try to fight you can easily keep 5+ busy without a problem, if they just try and run past without rescuing their buddies you will kill a good 50% of them or more.

Pretty much this. Which is why rangers get stuck in pick when there’s room. Medium armor classes are great at skirmishing. The ability to torment a backline and then disperse every time the blob commander has had enough…that’s where the fun is in playing these classes during large scale.

That’s why I mentioned hitting from the sides. Back if you can manage. Any reflects will only hit you (if you’re a potato) and most of the reflects and retal are concentrated in the main melee parties.

Backline eles and necros pop like bubbles if they lag behind a bit with cripple or get caught on the way back to the herd.

Yes, a bear/longbow ranger won’t bring much to a WvW squad.

However thinking that a druid is not worth a squad slot is a mistake. With the right gear, druids are currently the best burst healer. Burst healing is what really helps in WvW, even more in ZvZ. If I were you, I would educate my commanders, the 2013 meta is over guys…

Imho, if you wanna bring something useful to your zerg, a full heal druid is the way to go.

Dovkan.3519:

Earix.5684:

Yes, a bear/longbow ranger won’t bring much to a WvW squad.

However thinking that a druid is not worth a squad slot is a mistake. With the right gear, druids are currently the best burst healer. Burst healing is what really helps in WvW, even more in ZvZ. If I were you, I would educate my commanders, the 2013 meta is over guys…

Imho, if you wanna bring something useful to your zerg, a full heal druid is the way to go.

Can’t agree with this post more. I’m one of the only druids running healing on my server (TC) on the frontline and we definitely don’t get enough appreciation. I run full minstrels with a bit of clerics and use monk/rice balls/natural menders/transference/benevolence to stack outgoing healing through the roof with 1500+ healing power.. I bring the best healing in all groups I’m in and really get tired of people saying “Can any of you druids switch to a useful class?” I can’t count how many times I’ve been on the frontline, one of the last ones up with the commander, popping out healing left and right along with condition clear/damage buffs to the frontline while the ele’s are all down because they don’t have enough sustain (Sorry ele’s) What’s worse is being put into a pick group every time I run with a tag like I’m some sort of useless damage dealer. Meanwhile the commander and tank groups have 3 guards, a rev, and a necro.. like.. ok. Not my fault you’re missing out on a +15% damage boost to your tank train with massive burst healing and mobile water fields.. Don’t even get me started on the way ele’s scoff at the thought of a druid bringing better healing then them. Most ele’s don’t build for healing and are able to provide 2 water fields: One on a long cd that doesn’t even provide burst healing and another that is tiny/not mobile like the druid water field in celestial avatar. The druid water field can be popped twice in one ca transform with quickdraw right on the tank drain! And we still have our waterfield on staff! And then we have the support from our pets, such as the brown bear clearing condis or the moa providing protection/healing, or smokescale providing stealth to the group. Hopefully things will change and druids will recognize their potential as a support class instead of running longbow/staff and contributing to the idea that druids are useless. I also hope commanders recognize that druids aren’t a useless class if done right.
(Earix, I’ve seen your video, you actually inspired me to build my druid for healing/support and I couldn’t be happier. )

Well said Dovkan.By the way those were some awesome battles.

Dovkan.3519:

You don’t think there’s such thing as an excellent ranger in a WvW zerg? Have you ever seen a frontline druid in action? There aren’t many of us but the sustain and support we bring is very powerful. This entire thread focuses on zerker druids with longbow which isn’t what any competent druid should be running at all if they want to seriously ZVZ these days. Build frontline with minstrels/nomads/clerics/soldiers/etc… The pet isn’t dead weight. Brown bear can invuln, and clears condis from 5 in a 600 range. Smokescale gives an aoe field that can be blasted for stealth easily on the group, and is quite tanky. Could go on about Grace/Etc..

My original post specified longbow. The 5000 character limit and missing post bug ended up with my late-night rewrite missing some content. There are excellent rangers of course, though I stand by the claim I do not think the profession has any inherent value within a zerg over any other profession; the exceptions of course being as I mentioned those players who make up the very small number of edge cases that can provably provide more value than running what’s in the meta. That said, the ranger/druid are very easy replacements to make due to the play patterns they support and lack of unique options within what is effective in ZvZ. Rangers still have plenty of value within WvW in general as I said, just not within what would necessarily be a ZvZ engagement.

Jim Hunter.6821:

DeceiverX.8361:

And then you have the ranger/druid community getting up in arms about how it’s not fair their favorite build isn’t viable and to then start blaming the commanders and serious WvW players for being mean when they get kicked…….

Just want to point out there have been a number of ranger mains in this thread pointing out that rapid firing into a zerg doesn’t make ranger good in ZvZ’s, myself included.

However rangers are fantastic for harassing the kitten out of their back line and cutting off the players trying to run back to the fight. It’s funny as kitten to tap the enemy keep and position yourself in the path back to the fight, if the zerglings try to fight you can easily keep 5+ busy without a problem, if they just try and run past without rescuing their buddies you will kill a good 50% of them or more.

Blanket generalization for the reference to the community, my apologies. I should have specified “many” in the ranger community doing so.

And that’s something entirely different from ZvZ, though, unless the opposing group is simply out-played and lets their backline get so easily flanked by periphery forces. As I said, rangers shine in small scale and are absolutely amazing at it. Cutting off small groups of reinforcements from getting back to the blob is one aspect of this style of play which like I said, still brings value to WvW.

Dovkan.3519:

(Earix, I’ve seen your video, you actually inspired me to build my druid for healing/support and I couldn’t be happier. )

Thanks, great to hear. Old video with some average gameplay but I’m happy to know it inspired someone

trueanimus.4085:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

To avoid going around in circles as it’s clear you are one that will disagree with me lots here, lets just agree to disagree.

It’s clear that either:

a.) You don’t main a druid who searches for zerg fights and can force a push by downing half their frontline (this alone carries my weight)

b.) You just don’t care and are set on your own concept of a druid (which is perfectly fine, to each their own)

c.) You are just unaware as you have yet to come across a good druid that is NOT running a meta build, therefore not knowing what they are capable of (as I am also aware that meta druid builds are not that great in ZvZ fights…but I also never run meta…custom builds ftw)

Either way, looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Either way, fight a good fight mate

There is no druid build capable of “downing half their frontline” unless their frontline has all decided to afk and lets you free fire on them.

Taking it as a literal sense, then yes you are correct, however if you take it for the slight exaggeration that it was meant (as in I can down many frontline, thus helping the push to a great degree) then this stands true.

Again, many people grab a meta build and I am not arguing that all druid builds are capable of this feat that I am claiming, however to say that all druids are not capable of this feat is expressing either how many people use meta builds, thus not built to help much in a ZvZ, therefore helping create this misconception (its like saying all guys/girls are the same…which is untrue), or it got to the point where people have a permanent bad taste that it doesn’t matter how well a ranger/druid does as they will be dismissed against regardless.

Either way, I’ve been thanked from many people for doing what I do and it brings me great joy to be able to down 5 ppl at once despite the lack of strong aoe. As stated, I will just keep doing what I am doing. If you are red, you are dead, plain and simple

Any who, round and round we go so TAG, you are it.

My statement stands.
Ranger/druid can self buff for a large burst on a long cooldown but for a zerg fight you’d need GS to ensure it connects and it leaves the ranger extremely vulnerable because of the traitlines and blown cooldowns it requires. Longbow doesn’t work against organized groups. Too many of our weapons lack cleave and have low dps.

Yes rangers can go glass and rapid fire into a pug zerg but the second a few players get organized and start rotating their blocks the ranger is kittened.

Must be the good thing about the tiers ive been in for the last few months…Maybe none have been that wise to do so. 11k – 12k (backline) and 8k (frontline average) rapid fire every 8 seconds to 5 ppl at a time up to 1500 units (after starting with a barrage to negate some front lines aegis). I suppose 8 seconds is a fairly long cooldown for that much damage, standing front to mid.

Seems like another agree to disagree case here.

Hey smurf… i love where he says longbow doesnt work against organized groups lol.. that made me giggle.. I mean come on..

Their zerg standing there enpowering, stacked ready to charge, two druids jump up (from our lines) and barrage them, rapid fire into them and they turn and run because they see 2-3 of their backline drop instantly (i know you have seen me and catt and others do this so many times on TC) and the enemy zerg freaks out, scatter and try to regroup… its comedy gold. Meanwhile, our main tanks see the downs, yell CHARGE!!! and we mow them over like bowling pins..

Am i bout right smurf ? heh

Thing that gets me is “I have no cleave”

To cleave is to hit multiple people at once (with 1 hit). Marksmanship provides my LB with just that. I can knockback and root 5 people at once. Last night during a ZvZ at SMC I took out 4 people with knockback + rapid fire + a couple of AA (while I had quickness). Took less than 3 seconds to do it (druid, DH, rev and tempest). I would say that’s cleave damage. I may not have hit as hard as some classes but again, doing my job and where I run Marauders, retal damage was nothing. Again, im only here to show that Druids are nothing to be scoffed at in a ZvZ scenario if they know what they are doing.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Thing that gets me is “I have no cleave”

blah blah.. I can knockback and root 5 people at once. ..a lot of nosense that seems more like wishfull thinking than a real thing.

yeah what gets me is the bs and completely ignorance from some people in this forums, like they are simply trolls.

Ancients seeds will only affects the first target with your arrows, and you would know that if you actually played druid once in your life.

Ancient seeds only works with multiple targets with some skills, like glyphs and avatar 5, but not with arrows or axe mh.

Don’t ask me why, this is one of the weird things you see with the ranger.

back to topic i agree ranger lacks cleave and damage to be useful in a zerg. Yet i don’t think that should be changed in the vanilla class, there are some weakness like lack of stability and cleave that we could say it the signature of this class.

but all the other bs and bad as broken stuff should be improved so the ranger is not a joke class in a joke balance.

in the rangers forums there are a lot of sugestions, Anet should read those and try to apply some.

Druid is better off than thief in zergs. You can bring down targets in the enemy zerg with ease. The hard part is actually killing those downs. An engi with elixir s would be a good teammate for a zerg sniper druid.

anduriell.6280:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Thing that gets me is “I have no cleave”

blah blah.. I can knockback and root 5 people at once. ..a lot of nosense that seems more like wishfull thinking than a real thing.

yeah what gets me is the bs and completely ignorance from some people in this forums, like they are simply trolls.

Ancients seeds will only affects the first target with your arrows, and you would know that if you actually played druid once in your life.

Ancient seeds only works with multiple targets with some skills, like glyphs and avatar 5, but not with arrows or axe mh.

Don’t ask me why, this is one of the weird things you see with the ranger.

back to topic i agree ranger lacks cleave and damage to be useful in a zerg. Yet i don’t think that should be changed in the vanilla class, there are some weakness like lack of stability and cleave that we could say it the signature of this class.

but all the other bs and bad as broken stuff should be improved so the ranger is not a joke class in a joke balance.

in the rangers forums there are a lot of sugestions, Anet should read those and try to apply some.

I will have to look at my vid I recorded that night but im pretty sure I rooted all 4 of them as I was targeting the furthest one and he got rooted (all knocked back) and he was immob (all 4 didn’t move). Although I vaguely remember that being stated at one time that its the first one. Again, I will have to check my vid and I will have no problem retracting that part of my statement if I can see its true (“if you actually played druid once in your life.”….LOL you are too cute, please try again)

That doesn’t move away from the part that LB with marksmanship, does in fact have cleave (and ranged at that…heck even the staff AA pierces). The fact I can down 4 from up to 1500 range is awesome.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

anduriell.6280:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Thing that gets me is “I have no cleave”

blah blah.. I can knockback and root 5 people at once. ..a lot of nosense that seems more like wishfull thinking than a real thing.

yeah what gets me is the bs and completely ignorance from some people in this forums, like they are simply trolls.

Ancients seeds will only affects the first target with your arrows, and you would know that if you actually played druid once in your life.

Ancient seeds only works with multiple targets with some skills, like glyphs and avatar 5, but not with arrows or axe mh.

Don’t ask me why, this is one of the weird things you see with the ranger.

back to topic i agree ranger lacks cleave and damage to be useful in a zerg. Yet i don’t think that should be changed in the vanilla class, there are some weakness like lack of stability and cleave that we could say it the signature of this class.

but all the other bs and bad as broken stuff should be improved so the ranger is not a joke class in a joke balance.

in the rangers forums there are a lot of sugestions, Anet should read those and try to apply some.

I will have to look at my vid I recorded that night but im pretty sure I rooted all 4 of them as I was targeting the furthest one and he got rooted (all knocked back) and he was immob (all 4 didn’t move). Although I vaguely remember that being stated at one time that its the first one. Again, I will have to check my vid and I will have no problem retracting that part of my statement if I can see its true (“if you actually played druid once in your life.”….LOL you are too cute, please try again)

That doesn’t move away from the part that LB with marksmanship, does in fact have cleave (and ranged at that…heck even the staff AA pierces). The fact I can down 4 from up to 1500 range is awesome.

This is what i was saying all along.. i can do almost (or actually more) dps than a melee class at 1500 range. Now honestly.. who wouldn’t want a high dps with almost no chance of death when you can down people at 1500 range?

Factor in fire and air sigils on weapons for the occasional extra blast on crit (and i crit almost every single hit i land) and you have massive AOE every 8 seconds not counting the 4000+ crits from regular 1 shot and knock back to stun/stop runners. Massive in that it hits 5 targets just like everyone else.

yes.. meteor storm is frightening, necro marks cover the ground and scare people when they see all the red.. but… isn’t it scarier when you cant see where the damage is coming from?

My arrows cant be seen, they hit instantly since the speed patch.. they cant dodged or rolled out of (well yes they can be rolled out of.. if the target realizes oh crap that’s a rapid fire). but not completely side stepped like marks etc or just walked around when they see the red.

Arrows do even more dps than meteor storm etc.. that you also have to be standing stationary to cast. They apply vulnerability so that every hit after the first hits even harder.. AND they pierce… meaning they if the target in front (if im on a frontal target) runs back into the group.. im hitting him and 4 of his friends around him.

So why again would people be still saying that ranger/druid is a single target worthless dps class? I just dont get it

I do agree that barrage needs a shorter cool down and it would be nice to use it as a straight up aoe… but.. i as many of you know.. when i use it, i call “Cripple on downs” or “Cripple down in front” in teamspeak and only use it for the cripple effect on pushes etc to slow the push or stop runners. My arrows do enough aoe for me honestly.

Oh btw smurf.. or anyone else that plays ranger/druid… i get asked a lot “well elementalists can get an instant 25 stacks of might from thier skills.. can you do that?”

Here is my reply…

I run 2 pets… one melee (dragon) and one ranged (bristleback)

Before we push in, i swap to melee pet (dragon) and just as we start to push.. i hit GUARD.

I know that the pet is going to get pwned… the thing is.. with GUARD, every time he takes any damage, from wells or marks.. anything… it gives me a stack of might.

On a push, thats 25 stacks of might.. instantly

Yes.. i may not be able to stand in one spot with no one around me and pop 25 stacks of might.. but i can do it instantly when needed.. AND.. i can save my pet and drop a fire field on the ground by hitting my dragons 2 skill… which makes him invul while in the air.

IF he dies.. i simply swap to my ranged pet.. and keep on rolling… using Bristlebacks 2 skill for an attack that does almost as much as my rapid fire (without bonuses)

heh

trueanimus.4085:

Oh btw smurf.. or anyone else that plays ranger/druid… i get asked a lot “well elementalists can get an instant 25 stacks of might from thier skills.. can you do that?”

Here is my reply…

I run 2 pets… one melee (dragon) and one ranged (bristleback)

Before we push in, i swap to melee pet (dragon) and just as we start to push.. i hit GUARD.

I know that the pet is going to get pwned… the thing is.. with GUARD, every time he takes any damage, from wells or marks.. anything… it gives me a stack of might.

On a push, thats 25 stacks of might.. instantly

Yes.. i may not be able to stand in one spot with no one around me and pop 25 stacks of might.. but i can do it instantly when needed.. AND.. i can save my pet and drop a fire field on the ground by hitting my dragons 2 skill… which makes him invul while in the air.

IF he dies.. i simply swap to my ranged pet.. and keep on rolling… using Bristlebacks 2 skill for an attack that does almost as much as my rapid fire (without bonuses)

heh

Jumped on a bit to stream earlier. Where it was DB’s prime time, EBG was full of their zergs so I decided to chill and solo roam away from them. Got into some 1vx fights and to get the cleave, Ive been teaching myself (sometimes successful, sometimes not lol) to keep moving and keep repositioning myself so I can get the cleave in. So devastating for them more often than not.

Also, I am retracting my statement about rooting 5 ppl at once (unless you count my entangle lol but I was referring to my LB). I can knock 5 back but only the front one gets rooted.

True that ele’s can get 25 stacks of might quickly, however I have not really been beaten by an ele/tempest (in a fair fight ofc) where it helped them. If a corruption necro came by, that tempest’s stacks would be useless, so the fact that they can stack 25 might is a moot point.

As I mentioned, imma just gonna do what I have been doing and do it well (uh…most days I will anyway)

DeceiverX.8361:

I’m legitimately embarrassed to be a TC player with this trueanimus guy spouting nonsense like cripple stripping stability >.>

@atheria, the stigma is roughly the same when playing thief, JS, and you’re less likely to be kept as part of a blob when playing one than a ranger/druid. There’s literally zero group support for them to provide. Rangers get hate just because a lot of them that come in from PvE as longbow heroes are just terrible players from relying on pet AI to tank for them that end up killing their allies half the time, and if running longbow, are often either killing their allies or doing very little to support the zerg. A bad thief is a bag and a rally for the enemy; a bad ranger does 10k damage to your frontline players and is also still a bag and a rally all the same.

PvE has nothing to do with it except as a comparison on what I am not allowed to be inside WvW.

Druids are some of the best healers/damage producers in the game, yet not many ‘get’ that and believe, wrongly, that their own lack of dps is the reason they ‘won’ any encounter when I’ve picked them up multiple times and my pet has downed a player.

Rangers were dissed.

Druids are misunderstood and underutilized.

atheria.2837:

Druids are misunderstood and underutilized.

So true.

trueanimus.4085:

Mokk.2397:

I would really like to know what people mean by team play.Is it when the guardians/dragon hunters are so bunker-ed up with little to no damage tagging as many foes as they can while the back line does the real killing?Is that team play?Calling rangers out and calling us useless when we can plainly see the opponents going down one after another at the points of our arrows or under a barrage.That’s team play?
This is what I have to say about the so called “META” .It’s designed around selfish front liners that just want to tap while the rest of us do the real work.
ALL classes have a place in the battle field.Whether we’re running long bow or trapping we rangers are the ones at the far back watching over the back line ,bursting and disrupting the opponents front line and mid line.We flank to disrupt the opponents mid line and back line. So all you knuckle heads out there that think rangers don’t have a place in WvW need a reality check.It is ranger haters that need to stop being selfish and allow people to play the game .

^ Perfectly said…. the REAL team players are the ones kicking kitten .. everyone else is just on a loot stick guardian because they want to brag about how many bags their toon gets… i love this guy!! Honesty at its finest!

Only if you ignore the fact that other classes usually does it better…

The ironic part in particular being that the ranger longbow flanking role described above is just a mediocre version of a dragonhunter.

There is no reason to go into WvW as a Druid.

Our Elite HoT class mechanic just got nerfed by 50% and we were forced into healing stats only gear if we want to have decent heals.

Would you want a low damage “healer” that can only heal 50% of the time and has pathetic stability? When it is not being CC’d it is on cooldown. You can’t count on it so it is rather useless. It went from being rather decent to complete crap for support.

Archon.6480:

There is no reason to go into WvW as a Druid.

Our Elite HoT class mechanic just got nerfed by 50% and we were forced into healing stats only gear if we want to have decent heals.

Would you want a low damage “healer” that can only heal 50% of the time and has pathetic stability? When it is not being CC’d it is on cooldown. You can’t count on it so it is rather useless. It went from being rather decent to complete crap for support.

Eh Druid is actually good at a lot of things. When you’re 25ish vs 70 for example, I actually think running skirmishy might be better unless you’re a super organized guild group. Pretty much every tier is set up for that atm so there really isn’t a reason to not bring a Druid if you enjoy playing them.

Right now you’re either on the side that’s blobbing everything down or your on the side that needs to kite like mad and kind of peel the onion to get a good wipe. Druid excels in the latter and is ok in the former.

If you’re trying to bring a Druid healer I can kind of agree. I’m talking a more skirmishy DPS build with lb. Heal Druid can be awesome at keeping people up but sometimes you’re just sacrificing damage to support bad habits. People need to learn to sustain, position, blast water fields.

Dovkan.3519:

Reh.5986:

Archon.6480:

There is no reason to go into WvW as a Druid.

Our Elite HoT class mechanic just got nerfed by 50% and we were forced into healing stats only gear if we want to have decent heals.

Would you want a low damage “healer” that can only heal 50% of the time and has pathetic stability? When it is not being CC’d it is on cooldown. You can’t count on it so it is rather useless. It went from being rather decent to complete crap for support.

Eh Druid is actually good at a lot of things. When you’re 25ish vs 70 for example, I actually think running skirmishy might be better unless you’re a super organized guild group. Pretty much every tier is set up for that atm so there really isn’t a reason to not bring a Druid if you enjoy playing them.

Right now you’re either on the side that’s blobbing everything down or your on the side that needs to kite like mad and kind of peel the onion to get a good wipe. Druid excels in the latter and is ok in the former.

If you’re trying to bring a Druid healer I can kind of agree. I’m talking a more skirmishy DPS build with lb. Heal Druid can be awesome at keeping people up but sometimes you’re just sacrificing damage to support bad habits. People need to learn to sustain, position, blast water fields.

Heal druid provides a +15% damage/condition damage buff quite easily when spamming ca abilities with quickness/rejuv tides. Heal druid also provides spotter which is a pretty big dps buff. Heal druids provide plenty of water fields, including sub. conversion with quick draw, healing spring, and rejuv tides. They are all on pretty short cooldowns. I don’t run glyphs either. But I don’t see how it’s a bad habit, most people already know how to sustain pretty well, but you can’t go wrong with significant damage buffs/extra sustain.

You don’t need the heal stat to cash in on a lot of this. Bring DPS and bring all of these buffs to your party at the same time. Druid still has access to CA skills even building for heavy DPS.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying don’t bring druid. Mostly saying building for heal is going to be very situational in big fights unless you’re dragging people that just can’t stay up for whatever reason. To each their own though and depends on who you’re running with. Sometimes you have to hard carry people.

Ranger’s do not provide anything useful in group comps honestly that others cant do better. Typically just get ran over because you dont have your own practical stability on a short enough cd, the boons you might provide, guards an revs can do much better, you cant really aoe damage at all compared to necros or eles. At best Rangers an druids serve as gank, which honestly you dont even need to be in a squad to do that. Its not the communities fault, its anet making classes like ranger not very viable, same as thief. Its just gank which is great but again you dont provide much to the team and generally explode at first glance. Ask anet to give you a real stab and some good aoe cc on your weapon skills, thats your golden ticket.

I asked the question in Ranger forums, if they insist on shoving Pets down Rangers/Druids throats why is it there is no pet with AoE stability Available on their F2?

This would be a step forward in making the class a little more desirable, sure they would need more then just that but that alone would be a huge leap forward.

Nuzt.7894:

I asked the question in Ranger forums, if they insist on shoving Pets down Rangers/Druids throats why is it there is no pet with AoE stability Available on their F2?

This would be a step forward in making the class a little more desirable, sure they would need more then just that but that alone would be a huge leap forward.

Give it to a bear.

Jeknar.6184:

Nuzt.7894:

I asked the question in Ranger forums, if they insist on shoving Pets down Rangers/Druids throats why is it there is no pet with AoE stability Available on their F2?

This would be a step forward in making the class a little more desirable, sure they would need more then just that but that alone would be a huge leap forward.

Give it to a bear.

Or Pigs, pigs are pretty useless, might give people a reason to use them. TBH I really don’t care which pet, the very idea of being able to provide AoE stability on a 25-30 sec CD would make me consider using Druids more often. Sorry Rangers you still wouldn’t bring enough to the table.

I play druid in pvp as my main and also in wvw both gvg and pug zerg.

First of all, I really don’t understand why 80% of the people who have written in this post continue to talk about the longbow. I don’t want to say that longbow is a bad weapon, i would prefer to call it situational. Speaking about wvw, it works great in duels and also in small scale roaming. In large groups, however, as someone has already mentioned, the pewpew-ing doesn’t work at all cuz all of those skills that counters projectiles. Also Barrage can kill yourself if enemies have retalation. So I strongly advise against that pewpew kitten, except if you want to do something like a “focus party” or what is called.

So druid is useless? I don’t think so. We are the best healers in the game, bois. I have ele also and there’s no way that an ele can heal better than a druid. As an ele you don’t give only heals, that’s true. Auras, boons, fields, condi cleanses and so on. Yeh.
But druid can only heal? Nope. We can bring a lot of things to the table.

If you want to run in a gvg/zerg, staff and Celestial Avatar are your best friend. Heals, blasts, mobility, aoe stealth, aoe dazes and immobilize, mobile waterfields, aoe condi cleanses, projectiles converted in healing for you and your mates. Pets are better in passive mode, near you, but you can yolo them for cc or good burst/marks procs if needed. For your secondary weapon, you can run something like sword-warhorn for mobility and more boonz/blast, or greatsword if you want better mobility, blocks and cc’s. You can also buff allies damage with Spotter or Grace of the Land (7% free crit chance and 10% increased damage in aoe).

I’m still trying various things after the last patch, but this is what I run atm:

for Guild Raid: http: http: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7kSFoWQsnFwhFgrFsMLYw/zC6D1pqNn+XPBg60W7kWl+YA-TlyHAB0pEsV1fOSpX+HEA00BAwRAAl9HIXzA4PAgfUGEAAB4m3Mb2mBu5Nv5Nv5NLFgfDtA-w

for Open Raid: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7kSFoWQsXQwhFgrFswIYMhrvVA45JMsaZwN1paW9kXbVaA-TVyHABopDAgjAA5aGaV9n8PIA6s/A4PAgjU+RnSwNDBALSArqkCwvhWA-w

Equip stats can be changed on personal preference.
Guild raid version focus hard on fast rezzes and cc’s. Zerg version basically drop out nature magic since Spotter and Quick Draw seems more impactful. Zerg version also drops cc for quickness > fast heals.
You can swap Mercy runes for Troopers or Durability and take “Guard” instead of Search and Rescue or Signet of renewal for moar aoe damage reduction/aoe condi cleanses.
Ancient Seeds are also a good cc option.
Greatsword is better than s/w in certain situations.
This build exploits the massive boonshare that your allies can give to you, basically if you use “We heal as one” in a fight you will gain every kittenin boon in the game.

HEALING ROTATION:
For Ranged: CA #3 or staff #5+3 should be enough.
For the melee train: Strenght of the Pack> enter in the melee train> enter CA form> CA skills 3-4-3-2> exit CA form> go out of the melee train with staff#3 or Sword #2 or GS #3> wait cooldowns> repeat. (if you are taking too much damage in the process, activate Signet of Stone for a 6 seconds damage immunity)

OTHER THINGS:
-Warhorn 5 + F2 can be an unblockable aoe taunt.
-If an ally is hard focused, stealth him with Celestial Shadow.
-You can ress very fast thanks to Allies Aid, even faster if you are running Mercy runes

The build works even in 1v1 but is kitten. lol. Don’t do it. Only if needed. You get it.
My guild leader, that lead both gvg and pug zerg, never asked me to change class. He likes druid if played right ;D

I hope this can help a bit, for those who have lost hope lol. Just don’t pewpew against a 50 men zerg bois.