Guild Wars 2

I don"t have any problem with Rangers. They make fine backline snippers and when Druid contribute to sustaining the zerg. As a necro ranged classes are a bane while roaming, if they are kiting and pounding you there isnt much one can do. Also binding roots with venom share is very effective.

Mhhh ok lets say YOU are commander.
You have the choice between a Ranger or a Guard.
Which on would you choose? 100% Guard.

You have the choice between a Ranger and a Ele.
Which on would you choose? 100% Ele.

Ranger/Druid is not bad, but Guard , ele , nekro and rev are just better.

Its like : Would you choose 5 Dollar or 10 Dollar? Both is Money but one option is more worth.

And by the Projektlie Hate in WvW … Pew Pew is …

It’s just the gwen meta updated to trade revs for wars, now with more boon sharing power that they don’t want to share it with anyone except those invited to squad.

Back line is just gonna have to start their own squad is all.

i would also kick you from squad
i don’t like rangers
go make your own squad, with other rangers and thieves

I used to run a venom share thief, so I feel your pain. Most people made fun of my choice and other thieves made fun of me for not running a “real spec”. With the great trait change last year I pulled my thief out of WvW simply because I was having difficulty keeping it up. Short bow range is too short for pirate ship and the damage is just way too high to risk it. So now I take a well necro or rev for large group play. But my favorite is a scrapper… my only issue would be lack of stability with the spec because like you said, people don’t like to squad share boons with the weird kids on the street…. that’s okay… I’ll still play follow the tag, I don’t really care if I’m the odd scrub out. I still get my reward tracks and baggies.

Xenesis.6389:

It’s just the gwen meta updated to trade revs for wars

So the meta is now GREEN? (Two “e” since we have both frontline aurashare and backlines eles)

Balthazzarr.1349:

omg… I’ve played this game almost since it came out. WvW for over 2 years… Ranger for most of the time. Fine tuned this pewpewpew to have some nasty damage and backline support. I go into EB and join a squad and am promptly kicked out for being a Ranger. Seems they wanted only people who could tank, heal, help survive.. and so on.. of course Ranger/Druid can’t do that can it… Frankly I’m not sure how Ranger is self serving but that’s what I was told…. ???

I am in BP, attempting to get into one of the Host servers squads. Shifting between annoyed and just sadly humoured… I mean it’s not like we get gold for winning the week. It’s a game, it’s a game, it’s a game… then again maybe it’s reality? :P

I’m not a member of the CD community, tried to get on the site but even trying to register gets me an error so that didn’t work.

Just curious if other people that have been “pugged” up into the “better” servers have encountered this sort of thing.

So totally out of trying to get with groups in WvW unless my guild group is in and running I guess.. I mean seriously.. holy freakin crp…

Medium armor classes in general are not very good for larger group play in WvW. The AOE damage is lacking, which is the biggest issue for me personally. They don’t provide things like group boons like stability, regen, protection, etc. Druid heals do not make them worth having around either.

The issue is that anything a ranger can do, a necro, warrior, ele, guardian or rev can do better generally. Now they can’t ALL do all of the same things better, but they’re all over all better for the group than a ranger.

The ranger hate isn’t irrational, it is heavily single target based and most of its “big damage” skills like longbow 2 are EASILY reflected or negated by skills that either destroy or reflect projectiles. Longbow 5 doesn’t do much damage and is really the rangers only big AOE.

I honestly don’t see why anyone would WANT to play ranger in WvW for larger group play (10+ people) anyway because you get a LOT less tags on enemy players which means you earn a lot less loot bags. The less AOE damage you put out on the field, the less useful you are to the group.

I’d kick rangers from my groups too if I was commanding, I’d rather the useful classes get the boons and heals and such from other useful classes than promote people playing rangers personally.

No offense to you at all, I just think there is a time and a place to play ranger and it isn’t in larger groups in WvW.

—
Asphyxia [XT] – Fort Aspenwood Roamer
Twitch Stream – AsphyxiaXT
My Builds at Asphyxia.tv/builds

Ok this is really degrading. I have already said I would basically respect the zerg and stay out. If you actually read my posts instead of kneejerking garbage about rangers then maybe your responses might be a little more constructive? Sheesh

Jeknar.6184:

Xenesis.6389:

It’s just the gwen meta updated to trade revs for wars

So the meta is now GREEN? (Two “e” since we have both frontline aurashare and backlines eles)

lol that works XD

Balthazzarr.1349:

Ok this is really degrading. I have already said I would basically respect the zerg and stay out. If you actually read my posts instead of kneejerking garbage about rangers then maybe your responses might be a little more constructive? Sheesh

I don’t get what type of “constructive response” you want… You want people here to give you a pat in the back because a squad didn’t wanted a ranger? Ranger is problably the profession with most bad players per capita (Some of them don’t even know they have a weapon other than Longbow) and very little group utility. Sure it problably was an exagerated reaction since we’re talking about a pug group, but you come here with jimmies rustled, write a wall of text about your little experience and expect everyone to accept rangers on their groups from now on? If you’re so unhappy about it, why don’t YOU lead instead and show how good a ranger is in a zerg?

XTR.9604:

Balthazzarr.1349:

omg… I’ve played this game almost since it came out. WvW for over 2 years… Ranger for most of the time. Fine tuned this pewpewpew to have some nasty damage and backline support. I go into EB and join a squad and am promptly kicked out for being a Ranger. Seems they wanted only people who could tank, heal, help survive.. and so on.. of course Ranger/Druid can’t do that can it… Frankly I’m not sure how Ranger is self serving but that’s what I was told…. ???

I am in BP, attempting to get into one of the Host servers squads. Shifting between annoyed and just sadly humoured… I mean it’s not like we get gold for winning the week. It’s a game, it’s a game, it’s a game… then again maybe it’s reality? :P

I’m not a member of the CD community, tried to get on the site but even trying to register gets me an error so that didn’t work.

Just curious if other people that have been “pugged” up into the “better” servers have encountered this sort of thing.

So totally out of trying to get with groups in WvW unless my guild group is in and running I guess.. I mean seriously.. holy freakin crp…

Medium armor classes in general are not very good for larger group play in WvW. The AOE damage is lacking, which is the biggest issue for me personally. They don’t provide things like group boons like stability, regen, protection, etc. Druid heals do not make them worth having around either.

The issue is that anything a ranger can do, a necro, warrior, ele, guardian or rev can do better generally. Now they can’t ALL do all of the same things better, but they’re all over all better for the group than a ranger.

The ranger hate isn’t irrational, it is heavily single target based and most of its “big damage” skills like longbow 2 are EASILY reflected or negated by skills that either destroy or reflect projectiles. Longbow 5 doesn’t do much damage and is really the rangers only big AOE.

I honestly don’t see why anyone would WANT to play ranger in WvW for larger group play (10+ people) anyway because you get a LOT less tags on enemy players which means you earn a lot less loot bags. The less AOE damage you put out on the field, the less useful you are to the group.

I’d kick rangers from my groups too if I was commanding, I’d rather the useful classes get the boons and heals and such from other useful classes than promote people playing rangers personally.

No offense to you at all, I just think there is a time and a place to play ranger and it isn’t in larger groups in WvW.

—
Asphyxia [XT] – Fort Aspenwood Roamer
Twitch Stream – AsphyxiaXT
My Builds at Asphyxia.tv/builds

It’s sad that all the medium armor classes are like this. Nobody wants a Ranger, Thief, or Engineer in their parties. We’re stuck doing what the light armor and heavy armor classes can do, but can’t do it as well as either of them. Anet needs to seriously buff these classes so they have a viable group spec.

Nuzt.7894:

You know what would have helped Rangers a lot? If they had given druids some waterfields that could rival Ele’s that could be cast from a distance. That #5 staff is pure garbage and has no circumference, the healing spring has no range and requires you to be in the middle of the frontline, and the celestial #4 also has no range and require you to be stationary where it’s being cast which = dead Druid. They could have given them some viable boon stripping options, there’s a ton of things that could have done but didn’t. HoT was kind of a reset button that could have been used to correct some of the class balance issues and somehow they still completely missed the mark.

This exactly is what’s the problem with Druid. Anet needs to buff this stuff, and as far as I can tell they haven’t because they’re afraid of PvP imbalance. NOBODY CARES ABOUT PVP ANET!

RyuDragnier.9476:

This exactly is what’s the problem with Druid. Anet needs to buff this stuff, and as far as I can tell they haven’t because they’re afraid of PvP imbalance. NOBODY CARES ABOUT PVP ANET!

I belive the “Nobody cares about pvp” argument is directed to the fact that only a small part of the gamebase plays it. And following that logic, that means they should only catter for the PvE, since only a small part of the gamebase plays wvw. NOBODY CARES ABOUT WVW ANET!

At the OP. Believe me I get it. Ive been maining ranger since day 1.

On that note however. I understand WHY he did it even though it was largely unnecessary (He could have just shunted you into a non frontline party)

I also want to main ranger in all three game modes. But atm I only main ranger in PvP as there are better options for my playstyle in PvE and WvW. I don’t like it and I probably never will. But its also just how it is.

I am currently running ranger for my guild because we need pick. And ranger passes in that battlefield. And it is the pick capable class that I play best.

But if the time comes where my guild leader tells me we dont need pick anymore I will probably be swapping to hammer rev or frontline reaper. As those are what fit my playstyle (primary damage dealers) and yet are still useful in the core component of our grp.

The reason people dislike you isnt so much that your a ranger. But that you COULD have been anything else. Atleast thats what I have gathered up to this point.

This is combined with the fact that ranger is typically the scapegoat class. A large number of new players find range comfortable as there first character and make it there first 80. Similar to warrior. But unlike warrior a new player on a ranger is more obvious. They stand out and so are noticed by people around them. This creates the feeling that a larger number of rangers are incompotent in comparison to other classes.

This combined with our reputation as Buff Bots in PvE. Accusations of being AI Driven in PvP. And the realization that we don’t have a single roll that another class cant ATLEAST match us in in WvW. And you start to see why players reactions to rangers tinges on disgust.

Again. I don’t like it. But I understand it. And due to how ranger is DESIGNED (We are a very self sustaining class (As in we can generate our own boons, defensive measures, and burst scenarios (including internal access to hard AND soft CC) without needing any help from other players) it is unlikely we will get the changes needed to change that image without another expansion. Druid made us the primary support class of PvE (both for healing AND damage buffing, equalled only by the chronomancer for buffing and ele for healing.) and a staple of raiding (even if we are absolutely pigeon holed into that roll likely forever now), as well as a reliable team mate in SPvP (ranger is extremely vulnerable to being focused and locked down. Druid helps quite a bit with that).

It is possible the next expansion will offer us something on a similar level for wvw (Though I personally hope it will be damage oriented. Explosive Rounds PLEASE)

As much as your points are valid or invalid in any form, the WvW team that works in Anet doesn’t really have much influence on balance, and in addition to that matter, niether does the PvP team. It is in fact the only remaining team that does and that is why you will never see opinions change towards rangers in WvW.

Jeknar.6184:

Balthazzarr.1349:

Ok this is really degrading. I have already said I would basically respect the zerg and stay out. If you actually read my posts instead of kneejerking garbage about rangers then maybe your responses might be a little more constructive? Sheesh

I don’t get what type of “constructive response” you want… You want people here to give you a pat in the back because a squad didn’t wanted a ranger? Ranger is problably the profession with most bad players per capita (Some of them don’t even know they have a weapon other than Longbow) and very little group utility. Sure it problably was an exagerated reaction since we’re talking about a pug group, but you come here with jimmies rustled, write a wall of text about your little experience and expect everyone to accept rangers on their groups from now on? If you’re so unhappy about it, why don’t YOU lead instead and show how good a ranger is in a zerg?

lol no pat on the back wanted, required, anything. I honestly, after all these years of running Ranger, didn’t “get” the fact that I was kicked from a squad for the first time.

And NO I didn’t and don’t expect anyone to accept Rangers from now on. READ MY POSTS.. I said I WOULD NOT RUN RANGER IN A ZERG. It’s not that hard to read.

No point in replying it’s pretty clear OP doesn’t want to hear any answer that’s not his. It’s been pointed out several times in this thread why Rangers often get kicked. It’s been pointed out by those of us who enjoy the Ranger and by those that do not.

Suck it up OP, if you won’t run a Ranger in a zerg then what was the point of making this thread? Just a reason to whine and cry? This is a forum, people will respond to posts because … gasp …. that’s what people do on forums.

I do get it, though why are rangers considered single target? With piercing arrows they don’t have anything that only hits one target, and melee weapons cleave.

I think the reflects are a far bigger issue especially considering the big bomb from revs and eles are not subject to it.

Lolol. I won’t run ranger in a zerg now due to the useful input I received here. I posted originally because I didn’t see what many others see. Once again people continue to reply to me without thoroughly reading this thread.

ArchonWing.9480:

I do get it, though why are rangers considered single target? With piercing arrows they don’t have anything that only hits one target, and melee weapons cleave.

I think the reflects are a far bigger issue especially considering the big bomb from revs and eles are not subject to it.

Rev hammer 1 is a projectile and so is ele staff fire 1. The issue is that there is so little AOE from a ranger and the potential AOE of piercing arrows are projectiles they just get reflected or destroyed like I said before. If you’re going to be melee on a ranger, you’re better to go play a guardian, warrior or rev. Something front line that can survive in the front line well.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Lolol. I won’t run ranger in a zerg now due to the useful input I received here. I posted originally because I didn’t see what many others see. Once again people continue to reply to me without thoroughly reading this thread.

Yeah sorry man, I didn’t read the whole thread – I just figured I’d give you the insight that I have on it from the perspective of someone who drives groups in WvW from time to time. I don’t ever feel great about telling rangers, thieves or engineers to go play something else, but WvW is a competitive game mode and I am a competitive person. I want to be able to compete well with my group and to do that, I must maximize the potential of my group. Having a ranger, thief or engineer in the group doesn’t maximize anything. It would be much better if those people played any heavy class or a necro or ele.

We all know the root cause is the classes not being balanced right by anet for WvW, but maybe they had something different in mind for medium armor, who knows..

Reh.5986:

Pride.1734:

Balthazzarr.1349:

Johje Holan.4607:

Come to SBI. Half our zerg is Rangers.

lol, I was gonna say… make a zerg with all Rangers.. I bet they would kick royal butt!

Inb4 Wall of Refection

Hilarity ensues

Even better on a burn guardian.

The real issue in my mind is that most players ignore what a good team composition is either out of ignorance or something else. Ranger can fulfill certain roles in a zerg as can a thief and engi. But more often than not it isn’t one or two guys playing those classes, but over half of the guys playing those classes. That is where the team really starts to hurt which is why commanders, especially if the zerg is losing fights, start to make demands of team comp. If your team composition is unbalanced, your team will struggle. You’re not going to win a fight if you are all healers and have no damage. You are not going to win a fight if you are all gank and have no melee train staying power. Etc. And you can be sure that your opponent is looking at their team comps the same way.

WvW is a team-oriented game mode. You find similar demands on team composition in PvE raids (where ranger is crucial to healing), fractals, and dungeons.

Chaba.5410:

The real issue in my mind is that most players ignore what a good team composition is either out of ignorance or something else. Ranger can fulfill certain roles in a zerg as can a thief and engi. But more often than not it isn’t one or two guys playing those classes, but over half of the guys playing those classes. That is where the team really starts to hurt. If your team composition is unbalanced, your team will struggle. You’re not going to win a fight if you are all healers and have no damage. You are not going to win a fight if you are all gank and have no melee train staying power. Etc.

WvW is a team-oriented game mode. You find similar demands on team composition in PvE raids (where ranger is crucial to healing), fractals, and dungeons.

agreed

ok, licking my wounds and applying coverup to the bruises… I have dusted off my Rev, Guard, and Necro and will pull one of them into the battle when I’m in the mood for zerging!!! Puleeze read thread before beating on me any more.. naahh.. beat on me.. I like it! Meantime I will finish rebuilding my other classes to maximize team support

The sad thing is that i wouldn’t get my hopes up for next expansion either. If something changed it would be pure chance…. Y’know like an accidental byproduct…

There was only one commander I have seen that recruited rangers and thieves. I was playing lb zerker ranger, and for every sniper pocket (there were no squads so we were using party) there was a venomshare thief. One spotter (not the trait, real spotter. One with the best game system and perception to give targets fast and true) and one hitter were paired together. It was not the best but a solid backline sniping system. That comm really used his squad’s abilities to the maximum limit.

Nowadays sniping is a little boring due to all the reflect pooping. And also as a ranger I think even I would not want rangers instead of millions of aoe or boon spamming professions. Ranger has neither proper aoe, nor proper boon spam. Still I play lb ranger.

I like Rangers in WvW… They usually play zerk longbow and make it a really easy kill for me while I try to learn thief.

Like legit, I get rolled by all sorts of classes, but killing a ranger is always a sure way to rub my ego back into place.

Need more rangers!

sephiroth.4217:

I like Rangers in WvW… They usually play zerk longbow and make it a really easy kill for me while I try to learn thief.

Like legit, I get rolled by all sorts of classes, but killing a ranger is always a sure way to rub my ego back into place.

Need more rangers!

I feel the same about killing Thieves. Because 95% of them are too slow or too stupid to avoid QZ + RF. Two shot a Thief not a few hours ago with two 6k Counterattack as well because apparently holding a huge sword over my face and having an icon below my name showing that I’m blocking isn’t enough warning.

“Always assume your opponent is a genius until proven an idiot.”

But yeah I won’t lie a lot of Rangers are bad. Still, don’t get over confident. You might run in to someone who knows what they’re doing :P

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

sephiroth.4217:

I like Rangers in WvW… They usually play zerk longbow and make it a really easy kill for me while I try to learn thief.

Like legit, I get rolled by all sorts of classes, but killing a ranger is always a sure way to rub my ego back into place.

Need more rangers!

I feel the same about killing Thieves. Because 95% of them are too slow or too stupid to avoid QZ + RF. Two shot a Thief not a few hours ago with two 6k Counterattack as well because apparently holding a huge sword over my face and having an icon below my name showing that I’m blocking isn’t enough warning.

“Always assume your opponent is a genius until proven an idiot.”

But yeah I won’t lie a lot of Rangers are bad. Still, don’t get over confident. You might run in to someone who knows what they’re doing :P

Oh yea I do from time to time, If I can’t one hit the Ranger then I leave them. I’m really bad thief, like really bad. Comment was more a generalisation to the current META tho…

My ranger still rocks the s/d evasion build from 4 years ago lol… After 4 years they finally fixed that AA.

I run ranger in wvw as my main I cant tell you how many times ive crippled and tormented the hell out of the other servers zergs then the heavy’s move in and wipe them while I pick off the stragglers..not to mention when im sniping runners in front of our zerg or on crowed control and knocking back enemies who wanna siege disable us…

Honestly it sounds like it might be your server ive never had that happen to me to date also end of the day you just cant make everyone happy op set yourself up the best you can to be effective and if you are running in a zerg be alert and make sure to do your part..that’s about all you can do..

Chaba.5410:

The real issue in my mind is that most players ignore what a good team composition is either out of ignorance or something else. Ranger can fulfill certain roles in a zerg as can a thief and engi. But more often than not it isn’t one or two guys playing those classes, but over half of the guys playing those classes. That is where the team really starts to hurt which is why commanders, especially if the zerg is losing fights, start to make demands of team comp. If your team composition is unbalanced, your team will struggle. You’re not going to win a fight if you are all healers and have no damage. You are not going to win a fight if you are all gank and have no melee train staying power. Etc. And you can be sure that your opponent is looking at their team comps the same way.

WvW is a team-oriented game mode. You find similar demands on team composition in PvE raids (where ranger is crucial to healing), fractals, and dungeons.

This, in spades.

Like the odd guy playing ranger matters, 99% of the time a zerg wipes it will be down to things like the commander making bad decisions or the 5 melee that die on the first push because like most WvW players they basically can’t play the game (and in a game where the level of the playerbase is as terrible as GW2 and the game is fairly low skill, that is saying something…), etc, it isn’t going to be the three guys on rangers, that are the issue.

XTR.9604:

…but WvW is a competitive game mode..

Thanks for the laugh, 10/10.

I’ll take a good ranger over a kittenty guardian any day. Thing is though, I’d also take a mediocre guardian over a good ranger any day.

Rangers just don’t bring much to the table in the current meta. DH push with Shield of Courage, so your rapid fire doesn’t do damage. Frontline push with Resistance and Stability from DH+Rev, so your immobs, cripples and LB knockback does nothing. The only way you can deal damage is if you use sword or greatsword, which requires you to go melee, in which case you’re better off going Revenant, Warrior or Guardian for more melee damage and sustain utility.

Rangers are literally useless in zergs these days unless you spec tanky healing druids now. Or maybe against uncoordinated pug zergs too.

Jeknar.6184:

Darkness.9732:

The fault lies in who didn’ t make ranger decent and viable in 4 years.

Ranger is one of the strongest skirmishers atm, I don’t get the “didn’t make ranger viable” comment. It just not really good in a large scale fight compared to the heavy/light professions. Sure, it can deal a lot of long range damage or heal, but an elementalist can do that aswell, and be much more versatile.

Funny enough, the 3 professions nobody want to see in a zerg are the 3 medium ones.

Its unfortunate, but true.

Playing all classes, including ranger / druid, and having done so as long as the game has been around + rev after HOT launched, I can categorically state that in a large scale battle, ranger and thief take the last places when it comes to usefullness.

Anything a ranger can do, other classes can do better + provide other stuff for groups at the same time, which rangers can’t.

Druids slightly offset that, if, and only if, there is a commander that times druid raid heals and provides them with stab, group stunbreaks, etc. on pound for group pound healing they might be somewhat better then eles or other classes, but require too much babysitting in this regard, thats why so many commanders avoid the druid heal meta. In fact, I have only seen 1 commander in entire WVW use it successfully, ever, that was Coron Bale when he was on SOS before he left GW2. No other commander to my knowledge has done this since, or has never made it public enough for it to spread.

Vanila rangers vs HOT specs are just horrible unless they run into someone that is pure PVE or casual in greens or something like that.

They may be OK in small skirmishes, but WVW is primarily a mass combat game mode, small stuff is secondary, ternary or even below that in priorities, hence so are any players who build themselves around that.

Don’t get me wrong, it can be fun, I sometimes hop on my mes or engi to roam or havoc a bit, but that is just no where near as fun as organized and semi-organized large scale fights.

zinkz.7045:

Like the odd guy playing ranger matters, 99% of the time a zerg wipes it will be down to things like the commander making bad decisions or the 5 melee that die on the first push because like most WvW players they basically can’t play the game (and in a game where the level of the playerbase is as terrible as GW2 and the game is fairly low skill, that is saying something…), etc, it isn’t going to be the three guys on rangers, that are the issue.

Thats not really the argument against them though.

To take your 5 dead melee/3 rangers example, people (especially commanders) would argue that if it had been 8 guardian instead in melee on the commander, they wouldnt have died. And those 3 rangers didnt matter because you had no use for them with 8 unkillable guards instead.

That argument can go whichever way from there.

Its not entirerly incorrect because there is a chance those 8 guards could have spread out the damage, mitigated it and avoided the loss of 5 peeps. In this scenario the rangers are worthless. But would the battle be won because of that? Impossible to tell.

You could also argue that maybe 5 melee deaths could be handled by the commander ans that instead the battle is won because ranged peeps keep up the damage and down the enemies. Again, its impossible to tell.

In the end, commanders will choose the path of least resistance. Its just a matter of better safe than sorry. Simple fact is, to him 8 guardians is better than 5 guardians and 3 rangers. The chance of 8 guards being of better use is higher. I only know of a few commanders and that can work with a small core and properly direct ranged. I would like to see more of it as I think flanking attacks is very underrated in todays boontrain steamrolls but alas… meta is meta.

Dawdler.8521:

zinkz.7045:

Like the odd guy playing ranger matters, 99% of the time a zerg wipes it will be down to things like the commander making bad decisions or the 5 melee that die on the first push because like most WvW players they basically can’t play the game (and in a game where the level of the playerbase is as terrible as GW2 and the game is fairly low skill, that is saying something…), etc, it isn’t going to be the three guys on rangers, that are the issue.

Thats not really the argument against them though.

To take your 5 dead melee/3 rangers example, people (especially commanders) would argue that if it had been 8 guardian instead in melee on the commander, they wouldnt have died. And those 3 rangers didnt matter because you had no use for them with 8 unkillable guards instead.

The five dead melee in my example are useless rallybots that keep dying when they shouldn’t, regardless, or think they are in a focus party 2500 units from the commander stomping someone when they should be on the tag, the point was it is players like that or simply fact the commander is bad, which decides what happens in 99% of cases, rather than 3 guys out of 50 playing ranger.

As for having three guards instead of 3 rangers, that is only an issue in terms of squad when the squad gets full, in which case fine kick the rangers (though normally if the squad is full you have someone start a ranged tag to make room in squad anyway), it’s not like the rangers are normally going to switch to guard, you are not magically goign to acquire 3 guards instead of rangers in your blob, most people playing ranger, engy, thief, etc already know they are less effective than other classes for zergs, but they are playing them because that is what they like and they are playing in a casual blob in WvW that is a competitive joke, not DOTA 2 for a $1m at The International.

Dawdler.8521:

In the end, commanders will choose the path of least resistance.

I agree, but there is a difference between kicking some guy on ranger on sight, and doing it when the squad is full, and like I said in most cases if your blob is losing fights, then the reason is the quality of your blob overall or the commander isn’t up to it, and 3 rangers either way will not change the outcome in 99% of cases.

I have to say I understand a lot more about the team dynamics of a squad operation when it’s run well.

My poor Ranger is standing in a corner crying but I had to explain that there are times and places… When I’m roaming, alone or small team I will use Ranger because although someone up above yapped about picking off Ranger’s with his thief.. well I’m about 50/50 on that one.. a good thief can get me a some of the time, but most of them either die or run away.

The meta for the Ranger isn’t so great imo but that’s not what this thread is about.

My Rev has been cleaned up and rebuilt for team play and had a lot of fun last night running with a big group (OUT FRONT!)… So out of all the jabbing back and forth in this thread there did come some good. Thanks all

The profession system is working as intended. It’s not that complicated.
Heavies – front line zerg
Lights – back line zerg
Mediums – everything zergs cannot do efficiently, such as kill sentries and yaks, flip camps, gank, havoc, and scout.

I played ranger for a while in wvw, and while being fun to play, and occasionally useful, rangers just don’t bring as much to the table in zerg fights as heavies and lights. Sadly, they are relatively weak in zerg battles. If you MUST play your ranger, go do something useful with it which does not include bringing down the team.

Bottom line, the commander is performing a FREE SERVICE to the server by tagging up. Everyone who runs with the commander and follows his/her commands is going to get a lot more loot than by running solo. Therefore, the commander is within his rights to exclude players who are not contributing to the success of the zerg. Stop complaining just because you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Osu.. did you even READ the whole thread? The complaining stopped a LONG time ago. Coming in here and writing what has already been written then telling me to stop complaining etc etc shows you simply want to shoot your mouth off and NOT even see how the thread developed from start to what was the finish just before your message.

Right. Didn’t read every post. Got sick of all the complaining.

Tongku.5326:

They may be OK in small skirmishes, but WVW is primarily a mass combat game mode, small stuff is secondary, ternary or even below that in priorities, hence so are any players who build themselves around that.

Bobbers and blob commanders are much more fungible than havokers, havok commanders and roamers whose individual skill is much more determinative on the outcome of an engagement. I place much more value on a player that havoks or roams than I do a generiblobber.

Not that mass combat isn’t part of the game, but the exaggerated importance of blob combat in comparison to the other phases of the game mode is propaganda from blob commanders seeking to make themselves more important.

Tongku.5326:

Don’t get me wrong, it can be fun, I sometimes hop on my mes or engi to roam or havoc a bit, but that is just no where near as fun as organized and semi-organized large scale fights.

Large scale fights are tedious compared to the excitement of havok sized skirmishes. But that is a personal preference, I’m not stating it as a fact.

Thelgar.7214:

Tongku.5326:

They may be OK in small skirmishes, but WVW is primarily a mass combat game mode, small stuff is secondary, ternary or even below that in priorities, hence so are any players who build themselves around that.

Bobbers and blob commanders are much more fungible than havokers, havok commanders and roamers whose individual skill is much more determinative on the outcome of an engagement. I place much more value on a player that havoks or roams than I do a generiblobber.

Not that mass combat isn’t part of the game, but the exaggerated importance of blob combat in comparison to the other phases of the game mode is propaganda from blob commanders seeking to make themselves more important.

Tongku.5326:

Don’t get me wrong, it can be fun, I sometimes hop on my mes or engi to roam or havoc a bit, but that is just no where near as fun as organized and semi-organized large scale fights.

Large scale fights are tedious compared to the excitement of havok sized skirmishes. But that is a personal preference, I’m not stating it as a fact.

Personally, I would def take a well played Renger/Druid and Thief/DD in a roaming/havok group. This is where they seem to shine.

XTR.9604:

Medium armor classes in general are not very good for larger group play in WvW. The AOE damage is lacking, which is the biggest issue for me personally. They don’t provide things like group boons like stability, regen, protection, etc. Druid heals do not make them worth having around either.

Correction: "Medium armor classes are not good for large group play in WvW. "

I am sure you were just being kind, but in this case kindness kills. Oh and before someone links a medium armor build “that can zerg the balls off the enemy”, just don’t… please just don’t embarrass yourself <j/k> <well j/k sort of>.

In MMORPG’s, generally game is designed to give you a character that you can connect with. That character represents your alter ego, or your desired persona. You are known by that character in the game, even in your close circle of friends who play the same game.

Sadly, in the current game situation, you are kindly pushed to use more than one profession. And this damages the satisfactory aspect of choosing a main in many people. It brings great value if you use different (more appropriate) character in different game modes. And people started to do that. The balance in the game is fragile, roles are uncertain, mechanics cannot follow the changes fast enough, and bugs remain for a great time.

Due to all these, medium armors will not be ever good in large group fights like other types. Even in roaming other types are more favourable sometimes. That brings the problem. Not every game mode appreciates medium armor types, but other types are welcomed.

TL;DR

Medium armors not welcomed like others in every game mode. I suck at writing short versions. I do grammar mistakes. I like turtles.

I don’t know about that. We have the term “altaholic” for a reason.

And besides, my main/first class is Engineer, a jack of all trades, so I play the Engi meta game by learning and having all the professions available.

How does one exactly play a single class for 4+ years?

If you are joining an organized group then sadly that is one of the requirements to be part of the team. Right or wrong, it is what it is. Usually in time has you get to know them, or they you, things loosen up and you earn your spot, regardless of the class you started on. Similar with raiding, etc.

The last thing they want you doing is insta gibbing yourself with rapid fire on a target who is using reflects or daisy chaining them…seen it happen. But on the other hand the group just doesn’t want a ranger or druid out of ignorance then there are other things you can do and still have fun.

Balthazzarr.1349:

Johje Holan.4607:

Come to SBI. Half our zerg is Rangers.

lol, I was gonna say… make a zerg with all Rangers.. I bet they would kick royal butt!

We actually have done that before, last time we were in t4 though I suppose it’s hard to tell the difference.

It was pretty funny using bristlebacks and kitten but once in a while someone is smart enough to use reflects and gg.

Despite all this, I do organize the map blob squad fairly often and generally never have had a situation where I had to kick someone for being a class and our group comps are generally horrible. I’m usually looking for guardians but there hasn’t been a situation where a guardian could’t fit because reasons except maybe once.

Usually just kick people offline. Maybe this kind of stuff isn’t a problem in lower tiers. Of course if your group is approaching 50/50, it may make more sense to start a new squad anyways.

The other thing to consider is that a blob may form when small groups band together to fight another blob. In these cases when you simply have a bunch of these working together out of necessity, it’s inevitable not all of them are going to be zerg built.

Make pets useful again like they were back in 2012-2013 before they nerfed the pets to be useless. “oh look a gate in front of you”. “Attack pet”. “NO obstructed”. “Facepalm”.

I would rather have pets turned off tbh, not only do they count as a body who could potentially take needed buffs from allies, they also account for a chunk of your damage. They are unreliable, die to easily, and always suffering from one bug or another.

Make them activated through the beastmastery line not by default.

Nuzt.7894:

I would rather have pets turned off tbh, not only do they count as a body who could potentially take needed buffs from allies, they also account for a chunk of your damage. They are unreliable, die to easily, and always suffering from one bug or another.

Make them activated through the beastmastery line not by default.

Or make it so they don’t count to the 5 target limit.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Nuzt.7894:

I would rather have pets turned off tbh, not only do they count as a body who could potentially take needed buffs from allies, they also account for a chunk of your damage. They are unreliable, die to easily, and always suffering from one bug or another.

Make them activated through the beastmastery line not by default.

Or make it so they don’t count to the 5 target limit.

Pets aren’t taking boons away from players, they have a lower priority on receiving them. The only way pets are getting boons is if the ranger is running nature magic and copying them to the pet, or if there aren’t 5 players in range when the boons are being shared.