Guild Wars 2

Why is it possible that an enemy ranger can have their pet guard on the top of our tower? It not only destroys our seige but also attacks us as well. Please fix this Anet. Really messes things up in WvW.

I’m sure this post is meant in good humor but I’d like to see where it goes.

Nah it’s kay, totally a feature of the skill.

same reason they can be spawned through gates and mesmers do it with the clones all the time too both through gates and into roofs .

Rangers are pretty much worthless during a siege otherwise.
The guard ability is basically worthless at any other point in the game.

The fact that you have to equip an otherwise worthless ability just to get your class to contribute more than a single AOE on a long cool down during a seige makes this ability perfectly balanced.

Raincrow.1840:

Rangers are pretty much worthless during a siege otherwise.
The guard ability is basically worthless at any other point in the game.

The fact that you have to equip an otherwise worthless ability just to get your class to contribute more than a single AOE on a long cool down during a seige makes this ability perfectly balanced.

Yes because if you can’t aoe walls during a siege you are worthless . . .

Not like there is anything else you could do in a siege, you certainly couldn’t
~ build an ac to aoe the walls
~ man whatever siege your team is using to take the structure
~ keep watch for incoming enemy reinforcements
~ guard your catas/trebs if you aren’t ramming
~ run supply to build more siege

Lalnuir.4957:

Raincrow.1840:

Rangers are pretty much worthless during a siege otherwise.
The guard ability is basically worthless at any other point in the game.

The fact that you have to equip an otherwise worthless ability just to get your class to contribute more than a single AOE on a long cool down during a seige makes this ability perfectly balanced.

Yes because if you can’t aoe walls during a siege you are worthless . . .

Not like there is anything else you could do in a siege, you certainly couldn’t
~ build an ac to aoe the walls
~ man whatever siege your team is using to take the structure
~ keep watch for incoming enemy reinforcements
~ guard your catas/trebs if you aren’t ramming
~ run supply to build more siege

That’s all I have to do is quote you.

And about mesmer clones inside of keeps/towers, I feel the exact same way. Shouldn’t happen. I can understand on top, but they fixed the LoS issue.

Lalnuir.4957:

Yes because if you can’t aoe walls during a siege you are worthless . . .

The cool down on that 1 aoe is very long and none of the other abilities are useful. Even firing down from the wall the ranger isn’t as good as most other classes.

Lalnuir.4957:

Not like there is anything else you could do in a siege, you certainly couldn’t
~ build an ac to aoe the walls
~ man whatever siege your team is using to take the structure
~ keep watch for incoming enemy reinforcements
~ guard your catas/trebs if you aren’t ramming
~ run supply to build more siege.

Most of what you listed has nothing to do with the class you’re playing, but if just standing near a treb in case someone attacks is “useful” while other classes activly clear the walls while gaurding those same cata’s then you and I havea different opinion on what is and isn’t useful.

Yes rangers are way too OP. Nerf them into oblivion! XD

Hey Melpomene, what class are you playing? So that i can list down all the stuffs that need fixing too. pets can be taken down quickly once you noticed them, so i get the feeling that you are way too bad at this game to not notice it?

Raincrow.1840:

The cool down on that 1 aoe is very long and none of the other abilities are useful. Even firing down from the wall the ranger isn’t as good as most other classes.

Most of what you listed has nothing to do with the class you’re playing, but if just standing near a treb in case someone attacks is “useful” while other classes activly clear the walls while gaurding those same cata’s then you and I havea different opinion on what is and isn’t useful.

I’m sorry I didn’t realize you placed catas/trebs so close to a wall that your siege defenders can aoe the wall and protect the siege at the same time.

On the server I play on we place trebs and non-ninja catas further back so they can’t be killed by arrow carts, most ballistas or player ranged attacks. Makes it pretty hard to aoe walls and defend your siege at the same time. Well unless your opponents are idiots and run in a straight line from their tower/keep towards your siege.

If you aren’t ramming you don’t NEED to clear the walls until you have breached them, all you have to do is kill siege build sites when they drop them.
Only idiots and glass cannons die by getting aoe’d while standing on the wall anyway.

I will agree with you however that the ranger isn’t as good as most classes but that doesn’t make them useless in WvW.

No. lol. While I agree that the skill itself is useless in every other situation, rangers are gimped enough in wvw as is, we have only a few viable builds. The pet, our class mechanic and a large portion of our damage, should not be sitting there uselessly while we’re trying to defend a tower. If the skill is changed I’d at least like to see birds able to attack people on/from towers.

On my enge I can chuck grenades at long range while standing near catas hitting the wall, easily.

If rangers are so bad, why is there a million of them in WvW? There must be some reason why all those people continue to play their rangers.

Raincrow.1840:

On my enge I can chuck grenades at long range while standing near catas hitting the wall, easily.

Nade range is 1500, if you can stand near your siege and aoe the walls your catas are too close.

pot.6805:

If rangers are so bad, why is there a million of them in WvW? There must be some reason why all those people continue to play their rangers.

Heaven forbid people play things that aren’t the best option.
Also a lot of people still roll around in unorganized zergs instead of organized groups where the difference isn’t as noticeable between a good build and a poor one.

pot.6805:

If rangers are so bad, why is there a million of them in WvW? There must be some reason why all those people continue to play their rangers.

Maybe because I like the concept of the Ranger more than the concept of other classes, or that I mainly played one in WoW/GW1/EdenEternal, or that I like to play the underdog, or that I like to have a pet Raven flying next to me, or I like swapping between bows?

There’s more to a game than simply playing the FOTM roflpwn class you know.

Besides, for every single Ranger I see running around in WvW I ‘see’ at least 10 Thieves (and 99% of the time they are P/D+SB or D/D+SB).

So here people whine about a utility that actually makes the Ranger pet somewhat useful during a siege instead of completely useless but would only be able to kill people who are afking on a wall or sitting on siege while being completely oblivious to their surroundings.

It’s a minor annoyance at best, but knowing ANet they will immediately rush to your aid and serve nerf your every whim whine. /rollseyes

My question was geniune, not sure why the hostility. I see so many rangers in WvW, if you are fighting a zerg of 50 you are also fighting a zerg of 30 ranger pets.

pot.6805:

My question was geniune, not sure why the hostility. I see so many rangers in WvW, if you are fighting a zerg of 50 you are also fighting a zerg of 30 ranger pets.

The first portion of my response was a genuine answer to your genuine question. The rest was me making a general response to the whiners (which may or may not have included you) who believe that everything they can’t do is OP and should be nerfed.

That is all.

Ah got ya, rangers should get buffed slightly IMO and then see where they stand.

pot.6805:

Ah got ya, rangers should get buffed slightly IMO and then see where they stand.

Slightly is an understatement when it comes to buffing Rangers in my humble opinion; try complete overhaul (starting with pet AI and obstructed arrows).

But I understand your meaning.

Aveneo.2068:

pot.6805:

Ah got ya, rangers should get buffed slightly IMO and then see where they stand.

Slightly is an understatement when it comes to buffing Rangers in my humble opinion; try complete overhaul (starting with pet AI and obstructed arrows).

But I understand your meaning.

Yeah I only mention slight because mesmers got buffed 2 patches ago and Anet just nerfed them again. Better to buff slightly and see how it works then overbuff and then have to nerf right away. Warriors can feel your pain about obstructed arrows though. We also have to deal with the same issues of obstructed arrows. Trying to defend keeps/towers on the wall as a bow user is terrible. The lip of the wall causes everything to be obstructed so you have to get on tippy edge of the wall.

pot.6805:

Yeah I only mention slight because mesmers got buffed 2 patches ago and Anet just nerfed them again. Better to buff slightly and see how it works then overbuff and then have to nerf right away. Warriors can feel your pain about obstructed arrows though. We also have to deal with the same issues of obstructed arrows. Trying to defend keeps/towers on the wall as a bow user is terrible. The lip of the wall causes everything to be obstructed so you have to get on tippy edge of the wall.

Agreed, and even without a lip of the wall to obstruct your shots arrows get obstructed randomly even when out in the open and having full LoS. And then we have our pet, that’s currently as useful as a blind man directing traffic on a freeway.

As such you can understand the ‘hostility’ when someone cries for a nerf on a minor ability like Guard. An ability that serves little to no purpose otherwise when so much of the Ranger’s arsenal is already severely limited in effectiveness.

Lalnuir.4957:

Nade range is 1500, if you can stand near your siege and aoe the walls your catas are too close.

You don’t need to stand directly on top of a Cata to guard it. You can usually get close enough to hit the walls and still be within range to turn around and also hit anyone attacking a Catapult.

Unless you’re a ranger that is.

pot.6805:

If rangers are so bad, why is there a million of them in WvW? There must be some reason why all those people continue to play their rangers.

Rangers are fun to play, and they aren’t “bad” at all. They’re just not very useful in a seige, even with the ability to send a pet up a wall.

I main a Ranger and a Mesmer. That being said.

They nerfed Mesmer Phantoms so that the berserker couldnt be used on top of walls when no LOS because people complained. They should do the same for every class.

Ranger’s Guard ability.
Ele’s multiple abilites.
Any other class that doesnt require LOS.

Doesnt matter if class is OP or UP. Should be a consistent rule.

Just my 2 cents but wont kill me if noting is changed, Ill just deal with it.

Diehard.1432:

Hey Melpomene, what class are you playing? So that i can list down all the stuffs that need fixing too. pets can be taken down quickly once you noticed them, so i get the feeling that you are way too bad at this game to not notice it?

I main necromancer. Go ahead, there are PLENTY of bugs that need fixing that I already know about. So nothing you will tell me will be anything new. I’m not trying to be confrontational, so quit assuming stuff. I don’t get on the forums for this exact reason. People flame you for posting things that are obviously broken in the game and effect WvW.

Ishbaal.1503:

I main a Ranger and a Mesmer. That being said.

They nerfed Mesmer Phantoms so that the berserker couldnt be used on top of walls when no LOS because people complained. They should do the same for every class.

Ranger’s Guard ability.
Ele’s multiple abilites.
Any other class that doesnt require LOS.

Doesnt matter if class is OP or UP. Should be a consistent rule.

Just my 2 cents but wont kill me if noting is changed, Ill just deal with it.

I’d take the current phantom mechanic for my pet instead of using guard. Once your pet dies, by the time you get out of combat so your pet can revive or you switch to second pet and wait for guard cool down, the siege is likely over. I include the unreliability of finding the right combination of terrain and wall.

I’ve used this a few times, but I’ve gone back to taking pot shots to ledge shooters or shooting from ledge. If I get pulled off a wall or am flanked on the ground I’d rather have something useful in that utility slot.

Are you serious? This is basically the only thing we can do while assaulting other then supporting with healing spring, and barrage has too long of a cd and just tickles people.

In my opinion drakes should be used as handheld flamethrowers, spiders have a 5% to give the victim spidey powers, and birds can crap in siege users eyes.

Jokes aside, things just need redone to balance siege and thats all thats really needed to be said since everyone has their own issues which may or may not be ever tended to.

Engi’s are pigeonholed into grenades to be the most effective at wall siege and defence, they can cause havoc(before and yes, after nerf) for defending infantry near edges with spammable AoE, yet theres a catch, grenades often fall through upgraded walls making you even more useless than a ranger, who still have a bow and pet to attack.

Warriors have bow f1 on10 CD that can hit most siege on walls that other professions can’t but have poor range. Multiple warriors can take out siege on walls very quickly.

And so on and so forth.

Unintended game-play is unintended game-play and should be corrected.

The argument “This is the only thing we have to do in an assault/siege” is a non sequitor. Your conclusion that the broken mechanic should stay does not follow from your argument. The correct conclusion that should be drawn is that, hey, we have nothing legitimate to do in a siege, so we need to focus on getting something legit for us to do (assuming that’s true).

This is a no brainer.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Unintended game-play is unintended game-play and should be corrected.

The argument “This is the only thing we have to do in an assault/siege” is a non sequitor. Your conclusion that the broken mechanic should stay does not follow from your argument. The correct conclusion that should be drawn is that, hey, we have nothing legitimate to do in a siege, so we need to focus on getting something legit for us to do (assuming that’s true).

This is a no brainer.

I don’t think the mechanic is “broken”. I don’t see why an animal can’t climb a wall.

Whether or not it’s an intended feature is speculation at this point, but if it’s unintended, I’d like a Dev to come explain what the point of the guard ability really is, because I don’t see it.

Also, the balance issue is not a non sequitor regardless, since the OP’s complaint is based on the idea that this ability “Really messes things up in WvW”… which is why balance issues were brought up in the first place.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Unintended game-play is unintended game-play and should be corrected.

The argument “This is the only thing we have to do in an assault/siege” is a non sequitor. Your conclusion that the broken mechanic should stay does not follow from your argument. The correct conclusion that should be drawn is that, hey, we have nothing legitimate to do in a siege, so we need to focus on getting something legit for us to do (assuming that’s true).

This is a no brainer.

How do you know its not intentional? I could be biased but I think thats how Anet wants us to maximize the utilities of the “guard”.

lol

QQ

Ranger aoe should not need los. Even e animation shows that he/she is shooting into e sky to rain down e arrows. Why e need for Los?

Apart from that, nerf e ranger zq some more. My ranger 3100 power is hitting like 400-500/hit. Stack wif almost 40/40 crit chance n damage, I can easily kill those pathetic wild boars. Seems OP to me.

pot.6805:

If rangers are so bad, why is there a million of them in WvW? There must be some reason why all those people continue to play their rangers.

9/10 players are not ranger class they are mostly guardian,mesmer,thieves(infinite sign here) or elementalist.

Diehard.1432:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Unintended game-play is unintended game-play and should be corrected.

The argument “This is the only thing we have to do in an assault/siege” is a non sequitor. Your conclusion that the broken mechanic should stay does not follow from your argument. The correct conclusion that should be drawn is that, hey, we have nothing legitimate to do in a siege, so we need to focus on getting something legit for us to do (assuming that’s true).

This is a no brainer.

How do you know its not intentional? I could be biased but I think thats how Anet wants us to maximize the utilities of the “guard”.

Really? Come on, it’s obviously broken. Not only do pets climb walls, they actually fly at times like up cliffsides.

This is just another version (technically) of the old mesmer illusion problem. Once you get your pet on the edge of the wall, he has LOS to siege and can go after it. Illusions didn’t have that kind of mobility.

You know the Northeast tower, the one that’s the biggest pain in the game to take, I took out 3 ballistas and a cata the other night that was clear on the top, sent my pet up the cliff. In garrison I sent my pet after a treb way out on the ledge where they treb bay from (I was on the outer wall). The operator got so frustrated he turned the treb on me! I’m having all kinds of fun with it, but it is absolutely broken and not intended to be this way.

Anyone trying to argue that being able to send pets into structures like this is isn’t being objective at all.

You do realize that “Guard” is the only skill that makes pets useful on walls right? The pets who are responsible for at least 30% of the Rangers damage output..

Also; the whole point of attacking a wall is to destroy your siege. Why does it matter if you are being attacked by a pet, or being hit by AoE? If two players attack the pet, it will be dead in seconds anyway.

And no, it’s not nearly the same as Mesmers illusions on walls were. Illusions can be created in no time at all, and once they are gone, it is of no lose to the Mesmer at all. The Ranger only has two pets, and if they are both dead the Ranger is dealing less damage output. Further more, the Ranger needs to use a utility skill slot in order to pull this off in the first place.

Guard is probably bugged, but seems that Phantasms too, im tired of fight INSIDE of a tower/keep against Phantasms from outside mesmers.

snacktime.1082:

Diehard.1432:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Unintended game-play is unintended game-play and should be corrected.

The argument “This is the only thing we have to do in an assault/siege” is a non sequitor. Your conclusion that the broken mechanic should stay does not follow from your argument. The correct conclusion that should be drawn is that, hey, we have nothing legitimate to do in a siege, so we need to focus on getting something legit for us to do (assuming that’s true).

This is a no brainer.

How do you know its not intentional? I could be biased but I think thats how Anet wants us to maximize the utilities of the “guard”.

Really? Come on, it’s obviously broken. Not only do pets climb walls, they actually fly at times like up cliffsides.

This is just another version (technically) of the old mesmer illusion problem. Once you get your pet on the edge of the wall, he has LOS to siege and can go after it. Illusions didn’t have that kind of mobility.

You know the Northeast tower, the one that’s the biggest pain in the game to take, I took out 3 ballistas and a cata the other night that was clear on the top, sent my pet up the cliff. In garrison I sent my pet after a treb way out on the ledge where they treb bay from (I was on the outer wall). The operator got so frustrated he turned the treb on me! I’m having all kinds of fun with it, but it is absolutely broken and not intended to be this way.

Anyone trying to argue that being able to send pets into structures like this is isn’t being objective at all.

Kasama pretty much nailed it, you should read it up, thanks. A dead pet is a huge blow to ranger(esp. for those who go for BM traits; For those who arent, well i dont think you should even complain about it since you can kill the pet in 2-3 hits), while lost illusions are simply an itch for mesmers.

It was changed in the November patch I believe to work like this…So either its bugged, or they wanted to give rangers the ability to use our pets during Siege Fights.

Mesmers can still hit you with Phantasms as well, They require LoS though…

Kill the pet you fool!

Xsorus.2507:

It was changed in the November patch I believe to work like this…So either its bugged, or they wanted to give rangers the ability to use our pets during Siege Fights.

Mesmers can still hit you with Phantasms as well, They require LoS though…

It was an unintended side effect. As a game dev myself it’s not hard to see what happened. If you notice, when you send a pet on top of a wall/cliff, they are right on the vertice. That’s the fix that went in, they coded it so objects such as pets/illusions can only go to the vertice, which was probably the simplest way to ensure LOS.

I’m betting that the code path for the mesmer fix comes before whatever old code was used to control the guard ability. That’s why it just started doing this with that patch.

ranger pet aggro range is just ridiculous they shouldnt attack ppl if they are not even within any weapon range to their masters and not talking about walls.

You would think a SPIDER could climb the wall, or any of the BIRD PETS could fly over the wall.

I don’t have an issue with those pets getting in the keep.

However, dogs, cats, etc should not be able to get inside.

Hey, cats are excellent climbers too you know :P

Come on, dun u guys feel sorry for ranger? Even necro n eng laugh at us after anet nerf zq.

I rolled a Ranger last week just to play with this one utility! Because it look’s funny to play with. Nerfing it now would irk me to know end. Besides, clones/phantasms/illusions whatever, are WAY more annoying than pets! Or, how about AOE damaged breaching through gates? That’s WAY more of an in use bug than pets are…

What is hilarious is I’m willing to bet that all the people are doing this because of the videos I released.

To funny.

While i do believe “guard” is not working as intended, i feel sorry for rangers in general. They are just not very useful in wvw.

What’s hilarious is that you think you’re the one to discover this and people viewing your videos is the reason they are.

It’s kinda fun doing this but also tedious, boring and dangerous as it takes a long time to take down siege this way, you need to get pretty close to the wall in order to do it and overall it takes up a slot that could be used for something else- and the cooldown on it is so long by the time you have done it once most sieges are either over or someone on the wall has noticed and second time you send a pet up it’s dead in seconds.