Guild Wars 2

It’s simple.
What class has the highest Auto Attack Damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?
The Devs know the answers to these 2 questions…They just don’t care.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

It’s simple.
What class has the highest Auto Attack Damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?
The Devs know the answers to these 2 questions…They just don’t care.

What class has the highest access to stealth?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to hard cc?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to healing + sustain damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to teleports/gap closers?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

Lol.

Rangers are good at range.
Thieves are good at hit and run/burst.
Warriors/Elementalists/Engineers are good at sustain.
Guardians are good at sustain/burst.
Necromancers are good at sustained damage/hard cc.

HARDOFREADING is the same guy that refused to fight me because I was Silver ranked and claimed I was a zergling not worth his time.

I spend a lot of time in WvW, mostly roaming.. I take mental notes of every person I cross, especially the ones that take the time to message me. This was at least 5 months ago and I remember him being an Asura Thief.

I wouldn’t take anything he says seriously as he judges your level of skill by your rank, which means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things..

Also, a well played Ranger is a very difficult fight but the same can be said about any profession. The majority of Rangers, as others have said, will go in to panic mode as soon as you get within melee range. Doing so is easier said than done but when you learn how to kite, properly use your weapons and utilities you shouldn’t have any trouble. Don’t claim things are OP until you try it first hand. I remember when I used to think Thief was OP (which a lot of people here also seem to still think, sadly enough…) then I played it and oh how my opinion did change.. They are certainly powerful but it’s also a very punishing profession to play. One slip and you’re toast. Sure you can stealth and teleport around like crazy but if you mess up you’re going to pay with your life.

Thiefs have learned Spell- they now go around in groups of three with a mes and a guard or d/d ele as well so when they start to feel the pressure the next one can gank you, then feel proud that 5 of them in full roaming specs managed to down someone with no roaming spec…or all hide in stealth if one of them hurts a nail.

It’s ok though, as it makes it more enjoyable wiping them from the face of the earth if they try and pop up in our support classes during fights..use lb1 on some enemy squishy waiting for thief to pop next to one of our eles, he pops up and bam! two/three burst skills from a couple of waiting rangers and the cheese mechanic no armor macro user is toast:-)

Rangers are fine the way they are, apart from the broken pets.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

What class has the highest Auto Attack Damage?

Definitely not longbow ranger.
>.>

It’s pretty good damage for its range but that’s all.

shadowpass.4236:

HARDOFREADING.7298:

It’s simple.
What class has the highest Auto Attack Damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?
The Devs know the answers to these 2 questions…They just don’t care.

What class has the highest access to stealth?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to hard cc?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to healing + sustain damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to teleports/gap closers?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

Lol.

Rangers are good at range.
Thieves are good at hit and run/burst.
Warriors/Elementalists/Engineers are good at sustain.
Guardians are good at sustain/burst.
Necromancers are good at sustained damage/hard cc.

On the matter of stealth: some time ago i created an Overview regarding the different classes stealth capabilities. I did not bother taking thief Weaponskills into consideration (P#5+D#2 or D#5), because they are too hard to judge just by their relative cooldowns (time needed to regenerate their cost in initiative), and thus don’t fit that well into the List.

potential Stealth capabilities for utility and weaponskills with Cooldowns

percentage is rounded! (e.g. 8.23% is rounded to 8%,12.5% to 13% and so on…)

if multiple values are traitable,

Skillname: As|Bs, Cs|Ds -> AC%|AD%|BC%|BD%

R A N G E R:

• Hunters Shot: 3s, 12s|10s -> 25%|30%

With Runes of the Trapper

• Flame Trap: 3s, 15s|12s -> 20%|25%
• Frost Trap: 3s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%
• Spike Trap: 3s, 25s|20s -> 12%|15%
• Viper’s Nest: 3s, 20s|16s -> 15%|19%

E N G I N E E R:

• Toss Elixir S: 5s, 60s|57s|54s|51s|48s|45s|42s -> 8%|9%|9%|10%|10%|11%|12%

T H I E F:

• Hide in Shadows: 3s|4s, 30s -> 10%|13%
• Blinding Power: 3s|4s, 40s|32s -> 8%|9%|10%|13%
• Shadow Refuge: 15s|20s, 60s|48s -> 25%|31%|33%|42%

With Runes of the Trapper

• Ambush: 3s|4s, 35s|28s -> 9%|11%|11%|14%
• Needle Trap: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Tripwire: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Shadow Trap: 3s|4s, 45s|36s -> 7%|8%|9%|11%

M E S M E R:

• The Prestige: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Decoy: 3s|4s, 40s|32s -> 8%|9%|10%|13%
• Veil: 2s|3s, 90s|72s -> 2%|3%|3%|4%
• Mass Invisibility: 5s|6s, 90s -> 6%|7%

When in-Fight, general percentage of stealth-uptime itself isn’t neccessarily the most important factor. Shadow Refugee for example has the highest possible relative uptime (42%), but you would have to sit in stealth for the whole (kittenly long) duration, and the rather high Cooldown prevents you from using it often (which limits the numbers of situations where you can use it during a fight). Mass Invisibility grants you (speaking of non-PU) 5 seconds of stealth, but in a fight the 90s Cooldown almost turns it into a one-usage-joker, and it’s commonly used either as last resort when things go wrong, or to initiate an ambush. Perfect are Skills, that got a high percentage of stealth-uptime combined with a low Cooldown – having access to it more frequently allows for far more flexibility in using it. In that Sense, the Ranger actually got one of the best stealth skills in the game – Hunters Shot, with a 25-30% uptime on a really low Cooldown, and while it does require hitting a target, doing so is (at least for me) incredibly easy. Take Stealth-Trappers into Consideration, and the Ranger becomes – at least Stealthwise – a direct Rival to PU Mesmers. If you compare any Longbow-using Ranger to a standart-Shattermesmer (equipped with Decoy and Mass Invis), he will have double the uptime of Stealth during a ~90s timeframe, and has to miss 5 shots just to get down onto the Mesmers Level of Stealth.

I would write something to your other points as well, but i’am probably nearing the word limit again for this one, so i will leave it as it is for now

phirefox.2568:

shadowpass.4236:

HARDOFREADING.7298:

It’s simple.
What class has the highest Auto Attack Damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?
The Devs know the answers to these 2 questions…They just don’t care.

What class has the highest access to stealth?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to hard cc?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to healing + sustain damage?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

What class has the highest access to teleports/gap closers?
How high is the margin of difference between the classes?

Lol.

Rangers are good at range.
Thieves are good at hit and run/burst.
Warriors/Elementalists/Engineers are good at sustain.
Guardians are good at sustain/burst.
Necromancers are good at sustained damage/hard cc.

On the matter of stealth: some time ago i created an Overview regarding the different classes stealth capabilities. I did not bother taking thief Weaponskills into consideration (P#5+D#2 or D#5), because they are too hard to judge just by their relative cooldowns (time needed to regenerate their cost in initiative), and thus don’t fit that well into the List.

potential Stealth capabilities for utility and weaponskills with Cooldowns

percentage is rounded! (e.g. 8.23% is rounded to 8%,12.5% to 13% and so on…)

if multiple values are traitable,

Skillname: As|Bs, Cs|Ds -> AC%|AD%|BC%|BD%

R A N G E R:

• Hunters Shot: 3s, 12s|10s -> 25%|30%

With Runes of the Trapper

• Flame Trap: 3s, 15s|12s -> 20%|25%
• Frost Trap: 3s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%
• Spike Trap: 3s, 25s|20s -> 12%|15%
• Viper’s Nest: 3s, 20s|16s -> 15%|19%

E N G I N E E R:

• Toss Elixir S: 5s, 60s|57s|54s|51s|48s|45s|42s -> 8%|9%|9%|10%|10%|11%|12%

T H I E F:

• Hide in Shadows: 3s|4s, 30s -> 10%|13%
• Blinding Power: 3s|4s, 40s|32s -> 8%|9%|10%|13%
• Shadow Refuge: 15s|20s, 60s|48s -> 25%|31%|33%|42%

With Runes of the Trapper

• Ambush: 3s|4s, 35s|28s -> 9%|11%|11%|14%
• Needle Trap: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Tripwire: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Shadow Trap: 3s|4s, 45s|36s -> 7%|8%|9%|11%

M E S M E R:

• The Prestige: 3s|4s, 30s|24s -> 10%|13%|13%|17%
• Decoy: 3s|4s, 40s|32s -> 8%|9%|10%|13%
• Veil: 2s|3s, 90s|72s -> 2%|3%|3%|4%
• Mass Invisibility: 5s|6s, 90s -> 6%|7%

When in-Fight, general percentage of stealth-uptime itself isn’t neccessarily the most important factor. Shadow Refugee for example has the highest possible relative uptime (42%), but you would have to sit in stealth for the whole (kittenly long) duration, and the rather high Cooldown prevents you from using it often (which limits the numbers of situations where you can use it during a fight). Mass Invisibility grants you (speaking of non-PU) 5 seconds of stealth, but in a fight the 90s Cooldown almost turns it into a one-usage-joker, and it’s commonly used either as last resort when things go wrong, or to initiate an ambush. Perfect are Skills, that got a high percentage of stealth-uptime combined with a low Cooldown – having access to it more frequently allows for far more flexibility in using it. In that Sense, the Ranger actually got one of the best stealth skills in the game – Hunters Shot, with a 25-30% uptime on a really low Cooldown, and while it does require hitting a target, doing so is (at least for me) incredibly easy. Take Stealth-Trappers into Consideration, and the Ranger becomes – at least Stealthwise – a direct Rival to PU Mesmers. If you compare any Longbow-using Ranger to a standart-Shattermesmer (equipped with Decoy and Mass Invis), he will have double the uptime of Stealth during a ~90s timeframe, and has to miss 5 shots just to get down onto the Mesmers Level of Stealth.

I would write something to your other points as well, but i’am probably nearing the word limit again for this one, so i will leave it as it is for now

No offence but this is kind of pointless when you include the weapon skills for ranger and mesmer but not thief and engi.

Yeah, another example of the "experienced" player, discussing about balance
Also, all Ranger traps (with trapper runes) are reveal you when it deals damage, mean - instantly! While thief has 2 traps without damage - for an "occasion" you are forgot to include trapper runes as thieves stealth source too.

Jim Hunter.6821:

No offence but this is kind of pointless when you include the weapon skills for ranger and mesmer but not thief and engi.

Well, i put the table to good use so far, so i can’t claim it to be “pointless” for myself (it covers plenty of configurations already).

Of course, the thing about not including the Initiative/Combo skills is debateable. Everyone must decide for him/herself what to think of hit, however, here’s my train o fthought which led to me not including it:) :
For the Thief, all Weapon-based Stealthskills are Initiative-Based. Now, you could go and just define their cooldown as “Time the thief needs to regenerate the amount of Initiative lost due to the skills activation”, but comparing that kind of “Cooldown” to traditional, static Cooldowns is already borderline dangerous. Initiative is shared among skills, and using a stealth-skill based on initiative will influence the avaiability of other skills. The Same cannot be said for the standart-Skills the other classes utilize.
Also people could argue how a thief could manipulate his initiative (using traited signets for once), which is something way too complicated to put it into the simple shape that the rest of this stealth-table has (given how simple the non-initiative-stealth skills are).

I could of course add them that way into the table (and i know people in the Forum love to compare ini-skills to normal skills that way), but that would feign a kind of equality which simply doesn’t exist.

Now don’t get me wrong, as i’am absolutely convinced that the Thief has the highest stealth-uptime among classes due to his Weaponskills, but i simply cannot put them into the same table as regular duration/cooldown skills due to their nature.

I will update the post though if the length lets me do it, and add them to it with a BIG WARNING how they are to be interpreted, if you’re so adamant that it’s important.

To the Combo aspect: Well, this is a whole other Box to open. For the Thieves #5#2 i did not show them due to their nature as initiative-skills, but for non-initiative combos of the engineer, the reason is a different one.

Let’s see: to get Stealth (beside Tossing the Elixir) an Engineer has to utilize Smoke Fields and Combo Finisher. For Smoke Fields that would be:

• Smoke Bomb (Bomb Kit)
• Smoke Bomb (Trait)
• Smoke Screen (Turret)
• Toss Elixir U

the only optionions directly fitting into the table would be the Smoke Bomb (Kit) and Smoke Screen, since they’re just normal skills. The Trait isn’t actively triggered by the Engineer, and thus fails out of the equation. I would have to do some heavy interpretation (since they don’t act like normal, static skills) before i could incorporate it into the Table, and the same goes for RNG-Toss Elixir U – if i were to add them, i would either (again) feign precision where there simply is none, or i would give a description about how i interpreted them (to include them within the table), and risk making that part of the table worthless anyway to people disagreeing with the interpretation. Also keep in mind how the table includes active, controled ways to gain stealth – and neither RNG, nor the requirement of an enemy hitting you(which requires active behavior from another person, unlike for example Cloak And Dagger or Hunter Shot, which do require an enemy, but no active action from him) fits the bill

But thats only about the Smoke-Field skills. The Combos themselves are even more annoying: The engineer has one leap-finisher and numerous explosion finishers, all with different Cooldowns to look at. However, each of them requires a smoke-Field as prerequisite, and looking at the table, we could -at most- see two (namely Smoke Bomb and Smoke Screen). I could of course List any Combo of Smoke-Field-Skill and Finisher-Skill, but that comes with a problem regarding the term ‘stealth uptime percentage’: in-game, the usage of one Combo would directly affect another, since the smoke-Field used in the first won’t be avaiable for the second one -after all, both share the same prerequisite.
If i were to calculate the stealth-uptime-percentage over a very, very large but set timeframe (imagine the timeframe tending to infinity), normal,non-combo skills wouldn’t become a problem, since they could be used independantly from each other (in a sense that using one skill doesn’t impede on your ability to use the others afterwards), but this is not the case for Stealh gained through the use of Combo-Skills, so i don’t really want to take them into the table

SilverWF.4789:

Yeah, another example of the “experienced” player, discussing about balance
Also, all Ranger traps (with trapper runes) are reveal you when it deals damage, mean – instantly! (…)

• I also didn’t mention how playrer using SR are susceptible to loosing their stealth due to knockbacks The Table shows the maximum possible amount of stealth-uptime in percentage gained through actively used skills on the user-side, so of course outside-factors like people walking through your traps aren’t included.
• If you think that someone wouldn’t think of that … i don’t even know what to think of that. ‘Naive’ would be a good word i guess, but given your tone it could be worse as well. (i own both a thief and a ranger, and i thought exactly of that problem when i considered using a trap-build on the latter, but i also saw how – even with the occasional interruption by ticking damage, my stealth uptime would be still high – you don’t have to throw your traps directly onto your opponent whenever you use them )

While thief has 2 traps without damage – for an “occasion” you are forgot to include trapper runes as thieves stealth source too.

• I don’t know if it is your reading comprehension, but you may want to look at the table again. Specifically the part dealing with Thief-Stealth and Trapper runes… Seriously, if you’re sarcastically throwing around the word “expert” (which i neihter did, nor would call myself anyway), please take your time and READ what someone write BEFORE you complain. Thanks in advance :p

It is pretty obvious to anyone, that Thieves have highest stealth uptime in the game, highest possible ways to go to stealth and highest number of traits, profitable by stealth.
Only liar will argue with that. Also, there is no need to count something.
Because, this is part of their mechanic.
Also as range skills for RANGErs.
And blaming rangers for using their range skills... I dunno, maybe someone need to choose another game - without range classes.

I like range classes, will always use it, also as jumping on enemy’s bodies

Had fun fighting a pewpew ranger the other day. I was on my power engie build that i normally use rifle for, but the moment i saw the ranger i swapped to PS and put toolkit in my bar.

i jumped down, waited for the number 2 and hit my number 4 on my shield and ran at him. After he ate his arrows I pulled him to me, thwacked and started popping bombs all around. he tried pulling another round of pewpew and i pulled up my other block and repeated while tagging with random condi until my bombs finished him off. Good times.

nativity.3057:

Guardian here.
Is it really that easy to kill a ranger?
I mean, I’ve never been downed by a ranger (thieves I’m looking at you), but closing the gap is much harder than reducing incoming damage.

Catch a ranger with a greatsword? Yes. His only travel skill is his greatsword 2, just like yours, the only difference now is what else do you have to help you catch him. Got a scepter? That root does wonders. Hammer, more root, staff swiftness will let you eventually overcome him, and that isn’t even going into details about utilities you could use.

The other part of the catch equation is avoiding the rangers skills that will slow you down. Their longbow 5 is stupid simple to avoid and it roots the ranger to cast it. The only real threat comes from pets (horrible tracking on moving targets) and longbow 4, and possibly their elite skill. Granted, if they use the roots elite instead of the Rampage as One then it is debatable how much this post refers to them, because that was the rangers being discussed here. Again though, that leaves two abilities, one of them elite. You have aegis, and the ability to roll, numerous cleanses.

ETA: forgot to mention greatsword 4 can also be used as a snare. Its relatively easy to see coming, for gods sakes they are throwing a greatsword at you. It also means that they are giving up their ability to block.

You get the picture. And to answer the other snippet, yes, a meditation guardian wrecks the hell out of a power ranger

Greatsword 3, Swoop. Covers 1200 range compared to GS3 on guard, which covers 600. Judge’s Intervention and scepter 3 are your best friends against a ranger, as well as the massive amount of blocks, heals, retal, invul, and stability (not to mention the numerous other boons like protection etc). A good guard is really tough to kill on many classes, especially with high a HP stat. Don’t forget the burning, either — F1 and JI will hurt rangers a lot even when throw SoS up as a last resort.

SilverWF.4789:

Also as range skills for RANGErs.
And blaming rangers for using their range skills… I dunno, maybe someone need to choose another game – without range classes.

I like range classes, will always use it, also as jumping on enemy’s bodies

here we go.

Ranger does NOT derive from RANGEr. It derives from “a person that ranges the landscape”.

And now for the world famous comparison:

Guild Wars, and pretty much any MMO in modern time, is heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons, which again is influenced by the original Lord of the Rings books by JRR Tolkien.

I presume you have read the books or seen the movies, so ill just carry on.

Contrary to what YOU think is a ranger (Eg: runs around with a bow and pewpews) Legolas was NOT a ranger, he was a archer. Aragorn was a ranger, he wielded a bow from time to time, but primarily relied on his sword.

A Ranger is NOT an archer, marksman (ironically so since we got a trait line named Marskmanship), sniper or sharpshooter.

The ranger class is first, and foremost, a survivalist class, secondary it is “the official Pet class” (Arenanets words).
Why are we good with bows? because it fits the survivalist theme.
How are you most likely to survive? In a place that is out of harms way. Thus a bow with long range fits this theme. That and for the sake of traditions, people like “bow-wielding classes with or without pets”, it just feels thematically right in an MMO

STILL, THE WORD “RANGER” HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A RANGED CLASS. THE BOW IS JUST AN OPTION, NOT THE “ONLY RIGHT WEAPON CHOICE”.

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation

As defined by Anet.

coglin.1867:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation

As defined by Anet.

The definition Anet used there only became true after September’s patch, prepatch you would only meet a silly walking lootbag bearbow ranger here and there (The only reason anyone would use a bow was pure obliviousness, not knowing how bad bows were at the time). Since we are relying on the definitions, the last sentence there sums up this topic pretty nicely: adapt to any situation. You guys aren’t adapting, thus you tank the floor.

FrouFrou.4958:

coglin.1867:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation

As defined by Anet.

The definition Anet used there only became true after September’s patch, prepatch you would only meet a silly walking lootbag bearbow ranger here and there (The only reason anyone would use a bow was pure obliviousness, not knowing how bad bows were at the time). Since we are relying on the definitions, the last sentence there sums up this topic pretty nicely: adapt to any situation. You guys aren’t adapting, thus you tank the floor.

Who are the “you guys” who are not adapting? I am unclear what you are going on about, or what you seem to think my opinion in the matter is. I was simply pointing a simple fact in relation to a few others debating on what the ranger is supposed to be.

When you claim the definition came into existence is irrelevant.

lol Dude You’re trying to call me out?
If i refused to 1v1 you it was cuz you wouldn’t pony up the dough to make it worth my while.
That being said…I have no idea who you are
We need a system where we both pay into a 1v1 bounty & the winner takes all.
I don’t doubt that I called you a zergling…Sure sounds like something I’d do at least but let’s not misrepresent facts for your own hurt feelings.

Prysin.8542:

SilverWF.4789:

Also as range skills for RANGErs.
And blaming rangers for using their range skills… I dunno, maybe someone need to choose another game – without range classes.

I like range classes, will always use it, also as jumping on enemy’s bodies

here we go.

Ranger does NOT derive from RANGEr. It derives from “a person that ranges the landscape”.

And now for the world famous comparison:

Guild Wars, and pretty much any MMO in modern time, is heavily influenced by Dungeons and Dragons, which again is influenced by the original Lord of the Rings books by JRR Tolkien.

I presume you have read the books or seen the movies, so ill just carry on.

Contrary to what YOU think is a ranger (Eg: runs around with a bow and pewpews) Legolas was NOT a ranger, he was a archer. Aragorn was a ranger, he wielded a bow from time to time, but primarily relied on his sword.

A Ranger is NOT an archer, marksman (ironically so since we got a trait line named Marskmanship), sniper or sharpshooter.

The ranger class is first, and foremost, a survivalist class, secondary it is “the official Pet class” (Arenanets words).
Why are we good with bows? because it fits the survivalist theme.
How are you most likely to survive? In a place that is out of harms way. Thus a bow with long range fits this theme. That and for the sake of traditions, people like “bow-wielding classes with or without pets”, it just feels thematically right in an MMO

STILL, THE WORD “RANGER” HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A RANGED CLASS. THE BOW IS JUST AN OPTION, NOT THE “ONLY RIGHT WEAPON CHOICE”.

thx for info, but then I like to play Archer. Since this game will lost last playable archer spec – this game lost me also.

I didn’t understand a word of that.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

lol Dude You’re trying to call me out?
If i refused to 1v1 you it was cuz you wouldn’t pony up the dough to make it worth my while.
That being said…I have no idea who you are
We need a system where we both pay into a 1v1 bounty & the winner takes all.
I don’t doubt that I called you a zergling…Sure sounds like something I’d do at least but let’s not misrepresent facts for your own hurt feelings.

I simply remember the little Asura that couldn’t. Spoke a big game with no nuts to prove it.

McWolfy.5924:

80% of the roamers are thieves and mesmers, so i prepair against them. Do you have problem with rangers? Do the same.
Example most of the mesmers bring something but i never ever seen any thief to prepar for anything else but faceroll everybody.

Depends on the match up. Like you may find SFR and Gandara usually have Rangers and Thieves running about instead. Most of them are fairly average, but can pew pew and backstab out of nowhere.

Unfortunately there isn’t much motivation for players to play anything, but the easier to play builds – after all I think most players want to play accessible builds in a casual sense. Long bow rangers with bears appear in droves and Thieves playing D/P or P/D both with full SA, are a pain, aswell as the usual condi spamming.

The players arguing because rangers are the only real ranged class (eles and necros are aoe with staff)
Players dont want to take anti-range skills just because of one build of one profession. There are 29 kind of non ranged roaming builds and only 1 pewpew. Players put in condi removal, anti melee skills but never anti range stuffs.
There should be a condi-melee-range triangle but its not egsist. Range is too rare in this game

coglin.1867:

FrouFrou.4958:

coglin.1867:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation

As defined by Anet.

The definition Anet used there only became true after September’s patch, prepatch you would only meet a silly walking lootbag bearbow ranger here and there (The only reason anyone would use a bow was pure obliviousness, not knowing how bad bows were at the time). Since we are relying on the definitions, the last sentence there sums up this topic pretty nicely: adapt to any situation. You guys aren’t adapting, thus you tank the floor.

Who are the “you guys” who are not adapting? I am unclear what you are going on about, or what you seem to think my opinion in the matter is. I was simply pointing a simple fact in relation to a few others debating on what the ranger is supposed to be.

When you claim the definition came into existence is irrelevant.

iunno, “those guys” as in the people who are causing a tsunami wave of qq in the forums? Topic after topic and instead of switching few skills they throw their hands in the air, refusing to change their build to counter something that is killing them.

It’s not irrelevant when the definition came true, rangers have been crap at this ranging thing for 2 years. For 2 years you would think that all the bow wielding rangers are walking lootbags, but now that rangers got the buff which actually reflects the definition you kindly posted, people get mad because they are not used to getting killed by that walking lootbag. It’s upsetting. The bullied, always last to get picked in the team, never invited to birthday parties-person is finally being able to hold their ground, giving a bit harder time for the bullies.

McWolfy.5924:

The players arguing because rangers are the only real ranged class (eles and necros are aoe with staff)
Players dont want to take anti-range skills just because of one build of one profession. There are 29 kind of non ranged roaming builds and only 1 pewpew. Players put in condi removal, anti melee skills but never anti range stuffs.
There should be a condi-melee-range triangle but its not egsist. Range is too rare in this game

That’s because ranged in this game is balanced of having less damage than melee. The last thing we need is to turn the game into ranged-only contest of pewpew where even CoD has more melee.

HARDOFREADING.7298:

1. “1500” Range has been proven to reach out to 1970+ on level ground and even further with a height advantage.
2. A Ranger can have 3 pets at once.
3. Rangers have a Stealth, A Destealth, A knockback.
4. Much of WvW is 60%+ of Rangers oft times & virtually to a man they spam only Rapid Fire/Long Range Shot.
5. It can be virtually impossible for most other classes to defend structures vs the ridiculous length & burst of Rangers because they can’t get anywhere near the 1970+ range.
6. Giving the class with the most range a super high burst was/is a poor design decision that leaves many of us to conclude that Anet staff are playing Rangers in wvw.
7. Comparing any other skill/skill set/build to RapidFire/Long Range Shot is moot because they can’t reach out to 1970+.
8. Any talk of “How to Counter” has no bearing on any of what is in the above 7 Truths.

Now have at it & troll away but make sure you Read all 8 & don’t craft your troll attempts in such a way that they attempt to refute any of the “8” from my pack of vicious truths.

You want to make it even close to fair…Make an Anti Pet Trap with the same amount of penalty time that the Stealthers endure.

You just leave out something which makes me think you don’t play ranger ,,, Obstructed, Obstructed, Obstructed ….

@HtFde
Most obstrcuted issues was resolved some time ago. I also noticed that reinstalling the game removed some of them. Perhaps some old code is stuck somewhere and just didnt get patched properly. Maybe my case was just a coincidence, but it is worth trying.
Also, notice that this game is 3D, if you got a solid ledge ahead, dun think you can shoot through it

Prysin.8542:

@HtFde
Most obstrcuted issues was resolved some time ago. I also noticed that reinstalling the game removed some of them. Perhaps some old code is stuck somewhere and just didnt get patched properly. Maybe my case was just a coincidence, but it is worth trying.
Also, notice that this game is 3D, if you got a solid ledge ahead, dun think you can shoot through it

I play every class and I also play power ranger. Just yesterday I was in AXE range, switched to longbow and fired … 3/4 of the shots were obstructed (empty terrain but the dude was a bit uphill) and 1/4 went “out of range” …

Had the same “out of range” problem a bit later with my mesmer’s sceptre … clear view, almost nose to nose …

Calculation of ballistics has been pretty borked in this game – it’s become better, yes, but ever so often #2 on longbow just doesn’t hit ONCE because of obstructed, obstructed, obstructed and the faulty “out of range” thing.

Edit: The out of range is something I often get when fighting in Eternal on the “hills” north of SM to where the entrance to the red keep is … seems that height difference makes for faulty calculations there.

HtFde.3856:

Prysin.8542:

@HtFde
Most obstrcuted issues was resolved some time ago. I also noticed that reinstalling the game removed some of them. Perhaps some old code is stuck somewhere and just didnt get patched properly. Maybe my case was just a coincidence, but it is worth trying.
Also, notice that this game is 3D, if you got a solid ledge ahead, dun think you can shoot through it

I play every class and I also play power ranger. Just yesterday I was in AXE range, switched to longbow and fired … 3/4 of the shots were obstructed (empty terrain but the dude was a bit uphill) and 1/4 went “out of range” …

Had the same “out of range” problem a bit later with my mesmer’s sceptre … clear view, almost nose to nose …

Calculation of ballistics has been pretty borked in this game – it’s become better, yes, but ever so often #2 on longbow just doesn’t hit ONCE because of obstructed, obstructed, obstructed and the faulty “out of range” thing.

Edit: The out of range is something I often get when fighting in Eternal on the “hills” north of SM to where the entrance to the red keep is … seems that height difference makes for faulty calculations there.

The game calculates range by following the ground/walls, it does not calculate diagonally. This hurts ONLY projectiles using straight paths (scepter, necro staff, rifles, pistols). Projectiles using a arced path will hit and more othen then not hit further then their listed range. Auto attack will not work ontop of walls because the height of the wall is added into the range calculation but the arrow flight time (or rather decay time) allow the arrow to travel the distance anyway.

There is a few buggy locations still in terms of “obstructed” problems. Yes that hill near red keep (not the hill with a vista but the other one) does have some, there is a few obstruction bugs between the river/bridge and south east spawn and briar tower in borderlands, a bunch of them in EOTM, a couple more issues near skritts, inside the blue keep`s “maze” in EB. The obstructed bug CAN (meaning, this doesnt always work) be avoided by altering the angle relative to the target. you need to alter the angle quite a bit, so you have to move in a wide arc. This should let you find that spot where the obstruction bug is no longer affecting your projectiles (found that this works well in the borderlands, havent had many obstruction bugs in EB, then again, reinstall the game, you may just have some old broken code somewhere causing issues, i know some struggle more then others with obstruction errors).

Also, you say you play LB power ranger. Which is a one trick pony troll build. All it will ever do is destroy unsuspecting targets and baddies. It has no relation to the state of the ranger and should at no point be used as a benchmark to judge it due to that.
If you are one of those who struggle with obstruction issues (i did too for a long while, but for me they are mostly gone now for some reason unknown to me), you should seriously run some other build and hope they fix whatever is causing your issues with ranged weaponry.

HtFde.3856:

HARDOFREADING.7298:

1. “1500” Range has been proven to reach out to 1970+ on level ground and even further with a height advantage.
2. A Ranger can have 3 pets at once.
3. Rangers have a Stealth, A Destealth, A knockback.
4. Much of WvW is 60%+ of Rangers oft times & virtually to a man they spam only Rapid Fire/Long Range Shot.
5. It can be virtually impossible for most other classes to defend structures vs the ridiculous length & burst of Rangers because they can’t get anywhere near the 1970+ range.
6. Giving the class with the most range a super high burst was/is a poor design decision that leaves many of us to conclude that Anet staff are playing Rangers in wvw.
7. Comparing any other skill/skill set/build to RapidFire/Long Range Shot is moot because they can’t reach out to 1970+.
8. Any talk of “How to Counter” has no bearing on any of what is in the above 7 Truths.

Now have at it & troll away but make sure you Read all 8 & don’t craft your troll attempts in such a way that they attempt to refute any of the “8” from my pack of vicious truths.

You want to make it even close to fair…Make an Anti Pet Trap with the same amount of penalty time that the Stealthers endure.

You just leave out something which makes me think you don’t play ranger ,,, Obstructed, Obstructed, Obstructed ….

I used to be a necro…
Now have new class “tree-hugger” xD

Actually, you’ll find that hitting with Rapid Fire from range is pretty darn hard if you face a moderately competent person. Best range to land those RFs into someone is medium since you can use a spider or muddy terrain to immobilise your adversary and unload a full ‘clip’ into him. Moreover, the power of the RF also resides in the vulnerability stacks it builds on the target. With the right build you can get 20 vuln stacks with an RF (10 stacks from RF itself, 5 from opening strike + 5 from pet’s opening strike). Usually, it’s best to wait with LB equipped after a RF because almost every sane person will try to use the healing skill right after your burst (if it landed); interrupt it, stealth and follow this up with your secondary weapon set. You can either spike with a huge swoop + maul or just keep pressure while evading with sword/dagger. What I’m trying to say is that any competent LB power ranger won’t freak if you get close and will prefer playing at medium range.

Lol @ Ranger burst not being fair. When power rangers were getting blown up by thieves we got nothing but l2p and we did. We learned to track, predict and dodge invisible attackers. You can see RF. It is not instant burst. It can be blocked, reflected etc, even if your slightly late with your reaction you will still block most of the damage. L2P.

As for those people saying they shouldn’t have tweak their build or change a utility are severely lacking perspective. For the last 2 years thieves and mesmers have effectively nullified any other zerker build. (this is still true in sPvP) Rangers didn’t just have to tweak our power builds, we had to abandon power builds all together or fight an uphill battle.

All that being said, I would still rather face a ranger than any other class since I’ve put so much time into ranger and know the class in and out. Also, I rarely use lb and prefer the melee ranger. Have had great fun roaming the last few days on s/d, s/a celestial build.

Prysin.8542:

Also, you say you play LB power ranger. Which is a one trick pony troll build. All it will ever do is destroy unsuspecting targets and baddies. It has no relation to the state of the ranger and should at no point be used as a benchmark to judge it due to that.
If you are one of those who struggle with obstruction issues (i did too for a long while, but for me they are mostly gone now for some reason unknown to me), you should seriously run some other build and hope they fix whatever is causing your issues with ranged weaponry.

It’s one of the builds I use on a ranger and I love it as a very, very decent counter measure to the 3 or 4 thieves that our enemies like to play against the odd non-thief class. ‘Sic Em’ + Longbow 2 and then some post-work with GS or S/T and you have one very dead thief.

So it’s actually 2 tricks … or – considering the the traps and melee options … maybe even more than 2 Just because a LB ranger can use #2 doesn’t mean that’s all that’s there to play with (Although, I’ll admit, a lot of less experienced rangers seem to be only able to use #2 and #4 with super poor timing …)

LB ranger requires no skill to play when ur in a group. 6 sec reveal at 2000 range, 3 sec stealth every 9 sec, 3k+ auto attacks at 1500 range and when u finally get to them 6 sec of invulnerability. Ofc you can dodge/block rapid fire but whats the point when the auto attack will hit just as hard in like 3 hits. And what about classes like mesmer that don’t have proper blocks anymore thanks to ‘fixing’ skills. Every class has cheesy builds but lb ranger is by far the cheesiest of them all. Bravo anet, you haven’t learned anything about balance in the last 10 years.

mugen.4763:

LB ranger requires no skill to play when ur in a group. 6 sec reveal at 2000 range, 3 sec stealth every 9 sec, 3k+ auto attacks at 1500 range and when u finally get to them 6 sec of invulnerability. Ofc you can dodge/block rapid fire but whats the point when the auto attack will hit just as hard in like 3 hits. And what about classes like mesmer that don’t have proper blocks anymore thanks to ‘fixing’ skills. Every class has cheesy builds but lb ranger is by far the cheesiest of them all. Bravo anet, you haven’t learned anything about balance in the last 10 years.

You mesmer ot thief? I know it hurs that the former mobile loot bags now can actually defend themselves … must be horrible.

What you’re decribing is the 1 vs 1 on open field which happens rarely. Most of the time mesmers or thieves join existing fights and then the situation is quite reversed but, hey, why talk about that – in those situatiosn the ranger is as he should be … another instant loot bag.

Mesmers can (a) blink which closes a decent part of the gap if you’re running s/x you can use F4 and sword 2 to avoid the rapid fire and if you run PU with scpetre sceptre block works nicely. Never mind reflecting bubble or traiting into reflecting glamour like veil …

Thieves … we-hell, they have to use their gap closers now to engage instead of keeping them in reserve for running away.

I can understand that the changes annoy Mesmers and Thieves … if’s a bit like a hot dog on your plate getting teeth and biting back … just ask yourself … what’s the use of a class if it has no chance to kill any of the others? Now that it can .. mememememe

And mostly from the troll class Thief and from people who are a kittenallenged to play Mesmer.

Edit: ‘Sic em’ on 2000 range makes no sense as they’ll be able to stealth when things get interesting – you keep that in reserve when they’re closer. And I never needed Sic’em for Mesmers … it’s my treat for thieves.

Gaining invisible requires your arrow to hit … quite different from the guaranteed stealthes Thieves and especially Mesmers have (decoy, torch skill, veil)

In addition to that becoming invisible is only half the trick – repositioning yourself makes the full menu. And rangers (unless they have GS as secondary) have almost no skills to reposition them. This is where thieves are unmatched and mesmers can blink, turn around – staff 2 and be quite a bit away from where they were when they became invisible …

Tom Gore.4035:

McWolfy.5924:

The players arguing because rangers are the only real ranged class (eles and necros are aoe with staff)
Players dont want to take anti-range skills just because of one build of one profession. There are 29 kind of non ranged roaming builds and only 1 pewpew. Players put in condi removal, anti melee skills but never anti range stuffs.
There should be a condi-melee-range triangle but its not egsist. Range is too rare in this game

That’s because ranged in this game is balanced of having less damage than melee. The last thing we need is to turn the game into ranged-only contest of pewpew where even CoD has more melee.

Balancing is a 50/50. Now it simply not worth it

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.
A ranger just has to secure to keep the distance.
You could argue a mesmer can do exactly the same. But from range its far less pressure than the ranger offers and its not from 1500 range.
1500 range is imo the big problem. You cant bring a gun to a knifefight.

And those storys about using a magnetic shield and the ranger kills himself dont make any point. How bad was that ranger? We arent talking about PvE rangers here.

Many good players i know tried a power ranger nearly the first time after that patch and laughed about how easy it is. It shouldnt be that easy… Ranger shouldnt want to have it that easy.

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.
A ranger just has to secure to keep the distance.
You could argue a mesmer can do exactly the same. But from range its far less pressure than the ranger offers and its not from 1500 range.
1500 range is imo the big problem. You cant bring a gun to a knifefight.

And those storys about using a magnetic shield and the ranger kills himself dont make any point. How bad was that ranger? We arent talking about PvE rangers here.

Many good players i know tried a power ranger nearly the first time after that patch and laughed about how easy it is. It shouldnt be that easy… Ranger shouldnt want to have it that easy.

I have WvW rangers kill themselves on dagger storm constantly. Sadly WvW rangers tend to be worse than PvE rangers. WvW seem to have issues even swapping weapons. If you just sit on a longbow in PvE you’ll get kicked from a party.

Aberrant.6749:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.
A ranger just has to secure to keep the distance.
You could argue a mesmer can do exactly the same. But from range its far less pressure than the ranger offers and its not from 1500 range.
1500 range is imo the big problem. You cant bring a gun to a knifefight.

And those storys about using a magnetic shield and the ranger kills himself dont make any point. How bad was that ranger? We arent talking about PvE rangers here.

Many good players i know tried a power ranger nearly the first time after that patch and laughed about how easy it is. It shouldnt be that easy… Ranger shouldnt want to have it that easy.

I have WvW rangers kill themselves on dagger storm constantly. Sadly WvW rangers tend to be worse than PvE rangers. WvW seem to have issues even swapping weapons. If you just sit on a longbow in PvE you’ll get kicked from a party.

If the major of PU mesmers wouldnt have used any stealth skill, the trait would have never been nerfed.. so what
We are not talking about rangers that cant use their skills properly.

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

Rangers are much more manageable in PvP thanks to smaller maps, close quarter areas, Rangers role in team conquest and lower damage, but overall balance isn’t even that great in terms of wvw as McWolfy mentions – especially when it comes to small scale.

@HtFde.3856 The point I was making was that the LB power ranger build is unbalanced and as a result it requires no skill to play. I would prefer if they make it more interesting than it is now. If you read my post properly I did not describe a 1 v 1 situation. 1 v 1 I can take on a ranger no problem, but when they are in a group all they have to do is stand behind their allies and auto attack to win. Your argument that blurred frenzy and f4 on a mesmer can be used to deal with it would make sense if most of their dmg came from rapid fire but that is not the case; about 3 auto attacks would equate to the same dmg as a rapidfire.
I’m all for making any class balanced since I play all of them including ranger. As someone who played guild wars 1 from the beginning, I was merely expressing my frustration of how anet failed to balance a class yet again.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

No i didnt say that in this post, if you would ask me i would change the whole Channeling skill mechanic, rebelance the dmg and improve the ranger as a member of a group.

My suggestion would be that channeling skills do not hit anymore after 1 dodge. The effect would be that rangers would have to set up their burst like other classes have to. (Using CCs,soft CCs to land their full burst)

Improving the ranger as member of a group means ( since we are talking about lb) the ranger should be effective in closer range next to his teammates with that weapon, sharing boons with each other etc.
To be most effective in 1500 range is the wrong approach since it does not have anything to do with teamplay.
Thats why rangers aren´t that viable in tpvp. It´s 1 player standing far away ready to get ganked.
On open field (wvw) it´s a different story. You see enemies from far away and can react to it.

Weez.6315:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

No i didnt say that in this post, if you would ask me i would change the whole Channeling skill mechanic, rebelance the dmg and improve the ranger as a member of a group.

My suggestion would be that channeling skills do not hit anymore after 1 dodge. The effect would be that rangers would have to set up their burst like other classes have to. (Using CCs,soft CCs to land their full burst)

Improving the ranger as member of a group means ( since we are talking about lb) the ranger should be effective in closer range next to his teammates with that weapon, sharing boons with each other etc.
To be most effective in 1500 range is the wrong approach since it does not have anything to do with teamplay.
Thats why rangers aren´t that viable in tpvp. It´s 1 player standing far away ready to get ganked.
On open field (wvw) it´s a different story. You see enemies from far away and can react to it.

Their range has nothing to do with it, this isn’t a dungeon where everyone is stacking in a corner. Rangers aren’t viable in tpvp because their mobility doesn’t compete with thieves and mesmers (who fill the same roll) on maps that allow vertical ports. On Legacy of the Foefire a ranger kicks kitten because he can easily cover 2 points but there aren’t enough maps like that in the rotation.

And when you say reballance the damage I’m betting you mean nerf the damage right? The reason rapid fire received a buff was to give the weapon some burst damage. Without it there are way too many builds that could simply out heal the sustained damage of the weapon.

Look at the post above yours. He is saying the same thing everyone else does when they die to rangers. “1 v 1 I can take on a ranger no problem, but when they are in a group all they have to do is stand behind their allies and auto attack to win.”

So what exactly is the problem here? Other burst builds being used by classes like mesmer or thief can pop in and out of the fight using stealth and teleports to do their damage and escape. Rangers have low access to stealth and no teleports so they rely on their range to keep them safe while they deliver their burst. Their are a butt load of counters to ranged damage and rangers are always targeted first. If you are having problems dealing with rapid fire that is simply an l2p issue.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Weez.6315:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

No i didnt say that in this post, if you would ask me i would change the whole Channeling skill mechanic, rebelance the dmg and improve the ranger as a member of a group.

My suggestion would be that channeling skills do not hit anymore after 1 dodge. The effect would be that rangers would have to set up their burst like other classes have to. (Using CCs,soft CCs to land their full burst)

Improving the ranger as member of a group means ( since we are talking about lb) the ranger should be effective in closer range next to his teammates with that weapon, sharing boons with each other etc.
To be most effective in 1500 range is the wrong approach since it does not have anything to do with teamplay.
Thats why rangers aren´t that viable in tpvp. It´s 1 player standing far away ready to get ganked.
On open field (wvw) it´s a different story. You see enemies from far away and can react to it.

Their range has nothing to do with it, this isn’t a dungeon where everyone is stacking in a corner. Rangers aren’t viable in tpvp because their mobility doesn’t compete with thieves and mesmers (who fill the same roll) on maps that allow vertical ports. On Legacy of the Foefire a ranger kicks kitten because he can easily cover 2 points but there aren’t enough maps like that in the rotation.

And when you say reballance the damage I’m betting you mean nerf the damage right? The reason rapid fire received a buff was to give the weapon some burst damage. Without it there are way too many builds that could simply out heal the sustained damage of the weapon.

Look at the post above yours. He is saying the same thing everyone else does when they die to rangers. “1 v 1 I can take on a ranger no problem, but when they are in a group all they have to do is stand behind their allies and auto attack to win.”

So what exactly is the problem here? Other burst builds being used by classes like mesmer or thief can pop in and out of the fight using stealth and teleports to do their damage and escape. Rangers have low access to stealth and no teleports so they rely on their range to keep them safe while they deliver their burst. Their are a butt load of counters to ranged damage and rangers are always targeted first. If you are having problems dealing with rapid fire that is simply an l2p issue.

range has got much to do with it. A ranger far away can only do one thing : Damage. He cant support his team in any other way. No rezzing, no boonsharing, only a projectile CC which isnt reliable in a teamfight.

So on the other side the team itself can´t help the ranger in any way cause of the distance.

So the difference between mesmers, thieves and rangers is imo mostly that the two first classes have to go in close range to do their maximum burst.
Close range means vulnerability. Even though they got more access to stealth , being in close range is dangerous and its a High Risk High Reward situation.
So while rangers definately have that situation in PvP but can´t handle it as good as the mesmer/thief you dont have it most of the time in wvw.
So if you really wanted to change the role of the ranger in the game, a ranged damage increase shouldn´t be the solution. Maybe you should have a look on the Pet mechanics and utility skills. But mobility is definately not a Ranger´s Problem..

By rebalancing lb dmg i mean lowering the damage from far and increasing it from close range.

With 1500 range “counters” you mean blocks and reflects? A good rangers wouldnt just shoot on someone blocking all his arrows or even reflecting them. he would just retreat a bit, maybe use his stealth skill to position himself better and start again.

Weez.6315:

By rebalancing lb dmg i mean lowering the damage from far and increasing it from close range.

That would ruin the weapon. It is ridiculously easy to break projectiles by running through the player, longbow is not a weapon for up close fighting. That’s what GS and S/x are for.

Your ideas sound like the logic anet used when they nerfed the kitten out of shortbow to encourage people to use longbow. I’m all for increasing variety by fixing some of the ranger issues (pet ai, pet pathing, rooting mechanics, dealing less damage because we have pets, etc.) but nerfing the things that work is not the answer.

Weez.6315:

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

Er … walking sideways is not available to all classes? You’d be amazed how many arrows miss you if you move sideways … standing still or just walking backward and forward won’t do the trick …

As for “change of build” … just have a look at how the oh-so-balanced thief is supposed to be handled … evry more or less balanced build shouls have a stunbreaker (or more), a condition removal (or more) and a block/invulnerability. And every class has those skills …

If you do not pack those then it’s your problem. You either hit first and they die or you get hit first and then you die … glass cannon mechanic.

mugen.4763:

@HtFde.3856 The point I was making was that the LB power ranger build is unbalanced and as a result it requires no skill to play.

Make a power ranger, go roam, record – then let’s talk again about “no skill”. #2 doesn’t kill unless you’re already pretty low on health.

mugen.4763:

I would prefer if they make it more interesting than it is now. If you read my post properly I did not describe a 1 v 1 situation. 1 v 1 I can take on a ranger no problem, but when they are in a group all they have to do is stand behind their allies and auto attack to win.

In the same situation all a thief has to do is go stealth and get that ranger …. happens to me allt he time. Good groups usually have thieves, mesmers and D7D eles talke out the rangers and they’re usually doing a pretty good job of that. Every semi decent necro will have the ranger down in seconds as well … if the whole group insists on first targetting the guardian, however …

mugen.4763:

Your argument that blurred frenzy and f4 on a mesmer can be used to deal with it would make sense if most of their dmg came from rapid fire but that is not the case; about 3 auto attacks would equate to the same dmg as a rapidfire.

Auto-attack will not hit you in stealth … so you have to survive the burst then go stealth … done. Unless, of course, the ranger has packed ’Sic’em’ wich might delay things a bit … but I’ve seen many a ranger that killed themselves by a nice sceptre block from a Mesmer …

Weez.6315:

But mobility is definately not a Ranger´s Problem..

Have a d/d ele without 25% movement speed, use a thief without 25% movement speed, use a warrior even without warrior’s sprint … take a ranger and give him 25% movement speed … start a race … guess who comes last unless it’s a very, very short sprint race?