Guild Wars 2

So… I’m just wondering about this: Is there a reason for so many people to be playing this classes in WvW so much?
I go out roaming and I usually have no issue fighting against 3 or 4 people at the time, but lately I’ve been fighting against groups of 3 or 4 rangers with perma immobilize and thieves that hit you and run 238509845 units away.

I really don’t mind if they like playing like that, but I’ve also been noticing that they stay on those professions when they raid in blobs….
I mean….
Yeah sure, stay in that role if you want but you will keep dying…. :/
Seriously, I’ve been getting around 150+ bags every time my guild starts a raid and started also noticing that most of those blobs are pretty squishy….
You hit them once, and you see 8 downed rangers/thieves o-o

Did WvW suddenly become Edge of the Mist or something? :O

I can’t speak for all thieves, however if they are fighting in a ZvZ or BvB then there are some rules we must follow for survival. Unfortunately a lot of those I see (myself included from time to time) will either:

A.) Over-extend (This is what im guilty of, periodically)
B.) Try to play hero and spike down someone in the red circles of death
C.) Try to snipe the driver in the middle of his zerg/blob while they are attacking.

As mentioned, I over-extend sometimes, however I can say with full honesty that I usually get my kills and in a ZvZ setting, my kills to death ratio is in my favor.

Some people only has 1 geared character

They shouldn’t die that easily if they position better even in the biggest of blob fights. They just have to understand they’re not going to survive following the tag like a puppet.

In a Blob versus blob fight everyone one one side tends to die be they thief or guardian or Necro or Warrior. Once the blob is broken the numbers overwhelm whether squishy or not.

In such fights , wherein one side overwhelms the other, it generally the thief that is one of the few to escape. In A chasedown scenario wherein one side breaks and starts to flee it generally the thief or the rangers that either runs them down or kills those in the back from range with LB.

They are certainly more vulnerable in different stages and on a chasedown have to be sure they do not overextend but not all fights remain in one stage.

In some situations people will demand everyone form up a blob; sometimes it’s the only way to handle an opposing blob if you lack warm bodies. Though there are other times when those 3 folks taking a camp are too dank and require a blob to take them out.

In my experience, Ranger and Thief are the two classes people get the most passionate about.

I know there are other reasons for them being commonly seen but I seriously think this is the route of it.

I don’t know… When it comes to Thief for me the past few days, I’ve been running with a zerg. I don’t really die that much anymore, not like when I started out, used to get downed all the time, but as you get around the class, what your build can survive and what it can’t, you really can get away with a lot. Been playing S/D the past few days, no easy access to stealth in my build either… Actually unless someone provides me with a smoke-field, I can’t stealth (unless I steal from thieves).

You also have 100% control of engagements and disengagements unless you’re up against another Thief… Maybe that’s why people flock to it. Can’t speak for Ranger, but to my experience, Thief is REALLY forgiving to play once you get around it.

As long as you pay some attention in zergs, it’s really easy to survive with the class, even if you jump through their frontline and start picking at their backline. I’ve done so multiple times the past two days, and 7/10 times, I survive, and the 3/10 I don’t, it’s because I get too eager, just gotta learn some self-restraint.

Because cheese classes are fun despite the fact they don’t really do anything worthwhile.

Thieves and rangers are 2 of the best roaming professions.
If you’re in one of those guilds that raids outside of na prime you will be running into a bunch of roamers that showed up to help defend something. These people likely plan on going back to roaming after they help defend so they don’t want to bother swapping characters.

OK define “roaming”?

If it is flipping camps, curtailing supply, scouting etc then I respect that. However “Roaming” in this day and age is all about ganking and nothing more.

I stand by my statement.

Trajan.4953:

OK define “roaming”?

If it is flipping camps, curtailing supply, scouting etc then I respect that. However “Roaming” in this day and age is all about ganking and nothing more.

I stand by my statement.

Show us on the doll where the bad roamers touched you

Trajan.4953:

OK define “roaming”?

If it is flipping camps, curtailing supply, scouting etc then I respect that. However “Roaming” in this day and age is all about ganking and nothing more.

I stand by my statement.

Roaming, to be technical in GW2, is what happens when you are either solo running around, or with 3 or less people. Roaming isn’t defined by what you do but by how many people you do it with giggidy.

best part as thief or ranger in a zerg is focus party always stay on the edge and try to pick stragglers in the back line like eles , necros ,mes…. know when to engage and disengage try to pick enemy who spawn after death if u close to enemy spawn points

roaming thief or ranger u need good mobility and high survival u can not kill every one know when to pull back and have escape plan example u go to a camp and u find a dh with traps better move on as u will have the dh and the vet guards unless u are realy good try to take down supply dollys contest keeps give info to your server zerg about movement of enemy zergs
thief have good access to mobility and stealth
ranger mobility and survival
mesmers are also good roamers by the way i roam on mes most of the time

Trajan.4953:

Because cheese classes are fun despite the fact they don’t really do anything worthwhile.

This game has nothing but cheese classes and cheese mechanics.

I dislike the thieves as of late. To their credit they have figured out how to burst me down when I am least expecting it. It is part of the game atm. Feels a bit OP as I have never had issues with thieves before. Usually I can 1-2 shot a thief. Now I can not track them that well. Usually I can eventually kill them, but by the time I have made the fight even enough, some mesmer or ranger comes from behind and ganks me. But it is how the game works atm so I am not mad, even though it is annoying AF lol.

Puck.9612:

Thieves and rangers are 2 of the best roaming professions.
If you’re in one of those guilds that raids outside of na prime you will be running into a bunch of roamers that showed up to help defend something. These people likely plan on going back to roaming after they help defend so they don’t want to bother swapping characters.

This is how I wind up in large scale fights as a druid. If an impromptu zerg forms to defend a keep, I generally switch to tankier armor and wind up as a bit of an anchor in the fight, since only lunatics roam on revs and guardians.

Or the more fun scenario, 15 thieves and glass rangers show up to defend and we guerrilla warfare the offending zerg to death. There is something just beautiful about roamers interacting with each other with no communication, just from experience in small scale fights and PvP. Thieves tend to latch on to my pointblack shot targets without even touching their keyboards, it just happens from the universe doing it.

Because the noobs think “being invisible, or having a pet to mess up will be easy mode.”

I have a traditional hate to hit a run classes.

Probably it is classes that more flood the forum asking by nerfs, turning the games into mini-games.

The traditional hit and run is obsessed by nerf, because for the class it works there can not be another class with much defense and not much attack. If the developer listens to them, all classes are left with mediocre skills, becoming a mini-game of hit and run.

Thats funny because i see everywhere necros.

ArchonWing.9480:

In some situations people will demand everyone form up a blob; sometimes it’s the only way to handle an opposing blob if you lack warm bodies. Though there are other times when those 3 folks taking a camp are too dank and require a blob to take them out.

When I’m solo roaming I see a lot of this from the K-Train servers we fight mostly just the one server. With all of the warm bodies with little to no mind but to be a puppet. Just your prototypical zergling, looking for free and easy rewards by server stacking.

Trajan.4953:

OK define “roaming”?

If it is flipping camps, curtailing supply, scouting etc then I respect that. However “Roaming” in this day and age is all about ganking and nothing more.

I stand by my statement.

If we are talking about Thieves, then yes. However the other classes actually have to provide a fight or risk not getting the kill.

Also since my return to WvW a week or two ago. I’m noticing the habit nearly all of the new brand of roamers are developing. To run away to they have numbers on their side I gets super annoying when I’m solo roaming on a non Thief class. I suck at thief btw

Now that’s out of the way. -Competent Daredevil = SSS-Tier-, -Druid = S Tier-, -Berserker = S-, -Reaper- = A very close to S Tier on my roaming Rated List. This classes with the right builds can engage and disengage. More so if you are paying attention while fighting. To see the gank squad of +6 or more coming to help them out just against little ole you.

So that’s why you see a lot of these specific classes. Because they can kill and retreat in solo to very small group situations (2 – 4) no more When a zerg of 20 plus comes to just kill you.

That’s the zergs way of punishing you for not conforming to such a brain dead playstyle. “Oh you can be independent and competent by yourself? Might as well send the server blob after you till you log. I actually just had that happen to me yesterday morning at around 0500 to 0700hrs edt. I did just what they wanted. I logged played some Smite and logged on later, to farm Pips with the rest of the zerglings.

Well, in my short time playing this game, and WvW (think I just hit 132 last night?), I have come to realize that thieves and rangers, as people have pointed out already, are great for roaming. However, a good zerg commander does not want them, as they have nothing to offer the main group.

Was following a commander last night that asked all the rangers and thieves in the squad to please leave the squad, and follow the main zerg from the edges.

Odinens.5920:

Was following a commander last night that asked all the rangers and thieves in the squad to please leave the squad, and follow the main zerg from the edges.

There is a massive thread about why this is. The commander was likely not being rude, but just distributing boons properly across the ranks. Ganking rangers and thieves don’t need the ally support that frontliners do (party healing, stability, resistance, protection, etc.)

Thieves and rangers are still valued by commanders (some anyway, some are just ignorant) but they don’t need to be in the squad.

Fluffball.8307:

Odinens.5920:

Was following a commander last night that asked all the rangers and thieves in the squad to please leave the squad, and follow the main zerg from the edges.

There is a massive thread about why this is. The commander was likely not being rude, but just distributing boons properly across the ranks. Ganking rangers and thieves don’t need the ally support that frontliners do (party healing, stability, resistance, protection, etc.)

Thieves and rangers are still valued by commanders (some anyway, some are just ignorant) but they don’t need to be in the squad.

This guy is completely right. That’s ANet’s fault and not the commander’s fault btw. Balance is pretty much non existent in this game. Thus not all classes can do everything like others.

Thieves and Rangers got the short end of the stick in WvW. They have no role to play in a WvW squad outside of pin sniping. So honestly don’t blame the commander when more then likely he/she is trying to make a successful squad that is not going to get one pushed. Because that’s not fun either.

Fluffball.8307:

Odinens.5920:

Was following a commander last night that asked all the rangers and thieves in the squad to please leave the squad, and follow the main zerg from the edges.

There is a massive thread about why this is. The commander was likely not being rude, but just distributing boons properly across the ranks. Ganking rangers and thieves don’t need the ally support that frontliners do (party healing, stability, resistance, protection, etc.)

Thieves and rangers are still valued by commanders (some anyway, some are just ignorant) but they don’t need to be in the squad.

This is exactly what he was doing. He wasn’t rude about it, and he explained why. Was just saying that’s probably why there are so many roaming. They aren’t needed in the main tag’s squad.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Fluffball.8307:

Odinens.5920:

Was following a commander last night that asked all the rangers and thieves in the squad to please leave the squad, and follow the main zerg from the edges.

There is a massive thread about why this is. The commander was likely not being rude, but just distributing boons properly across the ranks. Ganking rangers and thieves don’t need the ally support that frontliners do (party healing, stability, resistance, protection, etc.)

Thieves and rangers are still valued by commanders (some anyway, some are just ignorant) but they don’t need to be in the squad.

This guy is completely right. That’s ANet’s fault and not the commander’s fault btw. Balance is pretty much non existent in this game. Thus not all classes can do everything like others.

Thieves and Rangers got the short end of the stick in WvW. They have no role to play in a WvW squad outside of pin sniping. So honestly don’t blame the commander when more then likely he/she is trying to make a successful squad that is not going to get one pushed. Because that’s not fun either.

You are correct, and I wasn’t blaming him
I’m currently playing frontline guard btw.

Odinens.5920:

This is exactly what he was doing. He wasn’t rude about it, and he explained why. Was just saying that’s probably why there are so many roaming. They aren’t needed in the main tag’s squad.

I guess you could consider that roaming. Nothing gets me more badges than following an enemy zerg. The commander and his core group of guildies or whatever run in a relatively tight formation and do not care what happens behind them, being only focused on maneuvering around the enemy zerg. Then the other 3/4 of the squad fall slightly behind and me and 6 or so other people just pick them off one by one.

Never fall off the zerg boat, it’s ranger and thief infested waters.

Ironically if this situation arises, it’s the thieves and rangers that are responsible for the enemy zerg breaking, and the core friendly zerg of heavies does very little decisive combat until enough people have been picked off.

If you do it right, while your gank classes don’t need to be in squad, they can provide a lot of support for the main force. But that often means being in ts and working with the commander, not just doing your own thing…

Sarika.3756:

If you do it right, while your gank classes don’t need to be in squad, they can provide a lot of support for the main force. But that often means being in ts and working with the commander, not just doing your own thing…

I’m all for using TS when you are running as part of a zerg but if you are roaming the outskirts and picking off the fat kids that couldn’t keep up, being in TS really isn’t necessary.
You aren’t coordinating bombs or following the tag (so you don’t need to listen for sudden direction changes, fake pushes, etc.) and your build should be self sufficient enough that you shouldn’t be getting locked down unless the whole enemy zerg turns to focus and blow a bunch of cooldowns on you. In which case you just provided a nice opening for your own zerg to hit them.

Puck.9612:

your build should be self sufficient enough that you shouldn’t be getting locked down unless the whole enemy zerg turns to focus and blow a bunch of cooldowns on you. In which case you just provided a nice opening for your own zerg to hit them.

That’s why it works so well. Commanders are in a lose/lose situation when gankers are picking off their zerg. Turn the whole zerg around and you lose initiative and positioning, waste time, almost inevitably waste cooldowns, don’t get the said ganker if he’s halfway competent, and then lose about 5 people chasing him across the map.

On the other hand, do nothing, and your necros get obliterated 1 by 1 and then your eles and then so on.

Only thing that works is to have a fleet of your own gankers circling the zerg. Thus: Completely incompetent commanders berate thieves and rangers into quitting and just solo roaming, while competent commanders organize boons and ask allied gankers to patrol the outskirts of the zerg.

Edit: Which is ironically the GvG meta from the glorydays from like 4 years ago, but apparently commanders forget quickly.

Puck.9612:

Sarika.3756:

If you do it right, while your gank classes don’t need to be in squad, they can provide a lot of support for the main force. But that often means being in ts and working with the commander, not just doing your own thing…

I’m all for using TS when you are running as part of a zerg but if you are roaming the outskirts and picking off the fat kids that couldn’t keep up, being in TS really isn’t necessary.
You aren’t coordinating bombs or following the tag (so you don’t need to listen for sudden direction changes, fake pushes, etc.) and your build should be self sufficient enough that you shouldn’t be getting locked down unless the whole enemy zerg turns to focus and blow a bunch of cooldowns on you. In which case you just provided a nice opening for your own zerg to hit them.

The reason for TS here isn’t to coordinate bombs – it’s so that you have eyes in the back of your head.

If you have dedicated gank, or pick team at your back protecting and picking up stragglers, they are seeing things the commander isn’t. And that information is often gold.

Sarika.3756:

Puck.9612:

Sarika.3756:

If you do it right, while your gank classes don’t need to be in squad, they can provide a lot of support for the main force. But that often means being in ts and working with the commander, not just doing your own thing…

I’m all for using TS when you are running as part of a zerg but if you are roaming the outskirts and picking off the fat kids that couldn’t keep up, being in TS really isn’t necessary.
You aren’t coordinating bombs or following the tag (so you don’t need to listen for sudden direction changes, fake pushes, etc.) and your build should be self sufficient enough that you shouldn’t be getting locked down unless the whole enemy zerg turns to focus and blow a bunch of cooldowns on you. In which case you just provided a nice opening for your own zerg to hit them.

The reason for TS here isn’t to coordinate bombs – it’s so that you have eyes in the back of your head.

If you have dedicated gank, or pick team at your back protecting and picking up stragglers, they are seeing things the commander isn’t. And that information is often gold.

The zerg should have enough eyes to see what’s happening behind them, and if it’s a group incoming that’s out of visual range you will have time to whisper them. If I’m in a gank group I prefer to be in our own TS channel so we arent talking over the commander.

If I’m solo roaming and decide to scout for the zerg/pick off stragglers I’ll hop in TS with them.

Thief and Ranger are actually has some role in zerg. They are good for finishing the down or sneak rezzing someone. (Ranger also can LB4 to those foes who try rezzing their friend)

You don’t have to worry about thieves and rangers in zerg. (Unless half of your zerg are thieves and rangers.) They normally know how to survive the crisis.

But yeah, Thief and Ranger are best roaming class. And great for ganking ppl who coming back from spawn.

Thieves and Rangers are akin to the Cavalary and Skirmishers of the Napoleonic wars. They are not intended to hold and take ground. That is the Job of the heavy Infanty. They are designed to harass the periphery of an enemy force and cause disorder in the ranks so formations start to break. They are intended to react quickly to movements on the flanks that intend to turn a formation. They are used to ride down an enemy force when it breaks and exploit broken formations wherein an orderly retreat can be turned into a rout.

They can in fact do this in WvW. Given many of those thieves and rangers also double up as roamers, they tend to be less reliant on boon sharing or group cleansing and can operate independently of the main body. Catch a Necro seperated from his main force he generally dead. Catch a thief , well it hard to catch a thief.

They work very well in preventing individuals that may have been downed and seek to rejoin a battle from getting back to their main force. Sure other classes can do this but they then become a “wasted resource” if the boon share or group cleansing or wells and marks they can provide no longer with the main body.

In tight quarters or at places with chokepoints , they much less useful but in an open field battle where they have greater freedom of movement they can be very useful to a well run group. This does not mean they MUST be allowed in a squad , it only means a good commander will recognize and welcome what they can provide the group as a whole.

You see them everywhere because they are hilariously good at the moment, haven’t played ranger in awhile but I have alot of experience as a thief. The thief, (daredevil) is by far the most forgiving class to play and have alot of traits and utilities that are somewhat.. overtuned. It is really easy to pick up and become effective with. Try roaming as a power mesmer and notice the difference in effort.

syntohras.1064:

Thats funny because i see everywhere necros.

Guardians and Necros dominate WvW right now. It isn’t even close. Guardians have dominated WvW in numbers since launch and have always been the ultimate WvW class.

Thieves are by far the most numerous roaming class but that is because they are fast and have some of the best escape in the game when they get disadvantaged. However, they are a minority class in virtually every other aspect of WvW.

Reaper Alim.4176:

“Oh you can be independent and competent by yourself? Might as well send the server blob after you till you log. I actually just had that happen to me yesterday morning at around 0500 to 0700hrs edt. I did just what they wanted. I logged played some Smite and logged on later, to farm Pips with the rest of the zerglings.

Wouldn’t any competent commander know which group should go where having a lieutenant who can sort the groups so you can have specific roles?
They could always have an “oh sht!” call like: “Ca-CAW! Ca-CAW!” Like some people on my server do to group up for a big fight.