Guild Wars 2

Ranger > rest

But I might be a little prejudiced here..

Excalibur.9748:

God-Tier:
Guardian/Warrior
They are the backbone of any group. Need to have lots of these guys for front line.
You’d want to have 70-80% of the group filled by these guys.

Good-Tier:
Necromancer/Mesmer/Elementalist:
Support classes. Good for supporting the front line so they can really do some damage.
Have 20-30% of these guys. Not too much though, since they’re there for support.

Okay-Tier:
Thief/Ranger/Engineer
Thief is good for trolling and spying not much else. Ranger is good for sPvP.
Don’t really need any of these. Maybe 1 thief to cause confusion.

Elementalists are the true backbone, actually. That’s your frontline sustain, prime stability checkers, and a good source of nuking.
Guardians are next because they are the frontline support. With AoE stability, boon stacking, and condi conversion, they’re indispensible.
Warrior is next because it gives your frontline some extra oomph. Earthshakers and Flurries are great for catching people and picking them off.
Necromancers are your one-stop shop for AoE bombs, condi strips, and AoE blind/chill spam. Your necro is the counter to frontline, the heavy pressure, and you should never go anywhere without a few good ones in a guild group.
Mesmer has your veils, your portals, your timewarps, your nullfields. The indispensable support class that makes the difference between a good engagement and a bad one.
Thief is your backline counter. With more escapes and damage avoidance coupled with high single-target burst, have a couple or a few thieves floating around in the shadows will earn you as much of a victory as a well-placed Earthshaker or AoE focusfire.
Engineer has a limited position, but whether you’re bomb kit, elixir gun, grenade kit, tool kit, supply drop, or blasting water fields, you have anything and everything at your disposal. Having a talented jack-of-all-trades player can help more than many would realize.
Sorry, rangers. Every class can do everything better than you.

Running 70-80% frontline is like asking to be roflstomp’d by better, more balanced groups. I would never exceed 50% of your group being frontline.

Klawlyt.6507:

Thieves are not only viable in zergs, they’re valuable. I’m not saying indispensable, but valuable. Constant blast finishers and dagger storm alone are enough to be useful to your zerg. You can also be doling out Vigor to your teamates, plus whatever else you steal. (Aim for stability). On top of all that, you can cause a mess of caltrops. A crippled zerg is a dead zerg. And if your zerg needs you to scurry off and scout something or tap a wp, you’re well qualified to do that.

Is a thief as needed for a successful zerg as a guardian or a mesmer? No, but they’re far from useless.

Not to mention spamable AoE weakness + poison.

Thief can also be played rather glassy in a zerg. I have been doing it successfully. 3-7k cluster (depending on target)+ good survivability + AoE weakness + AoE Poison + Daggerstorm is definetly strong, but still lacks compared to Guardian / Ele / Necro. It’s also a lot harder to play since you can die very quickly but you have tools to avoid damage (lots of dodges, shadowsteps, weakness, positioning). AC’s are your death tho…

Coming from someone who has been playing thief a lot in GvGs and open field Guild Raids against superior forces.

Wow, people don’t like rangers for wvw! I think the problem is the way a lot of people play ranger, rather than it’s a bad class, people tend to think of it as a purely ranged class and they go for the bows and they barrage and pew pew away at 1500 range and unless you’re running glass cannon you’re not doing any worthwhile damage. Personally I think it functions best as a medium range/melee class, you have a crazy amount of evades, 50%+ endurance regen and some great dps on the sword but I see lots more bow rangers then I see sword, dagger/axe, axe or torch. It’s also one of the best classes to bunker with and it’s up with Guardian for survivablity.

I can’t comment too much on usefulness in zergs because I prefer roaming and small groups but I’ve always found traps, when traited properly and the axe to do good aoe damage that the ranger normally lack (excluding barrage).

Ah, the familiar ranger hate train. Did you know I get leveled up every time someone whines about rangers?

Tribio.8531:

Ranger > rest

But I might be a little prejudiced here..

Got to admit ranger are amazing even for solo altough is so rare to find good rangers.

Edit: Ranger should be master of range, if not in mistake cant warrior with the bow trait get same range as ranger?

Aeolus.3615:

Tribio.8531:

Ranger > rest

But I might be a little prejudiced here..

Got to admit ranger are amazing even for solo altough is so rare to find good rangers.

Rangers are top tier for roaming. Decent in a zerg (at that point, it really doesnt matter what u have :p). Not so good in GvG.
I main a ranger, and they just dont bring a lot to the table, you know?

I do wish mesmers had more “punch” to their damage/aoe in large fights

Malpractice.7850:

I main a ranger, and they just dont bring a lot to the table, you know?

It is true that a ranger doesn’t have that many team supporting skills.. The occasional water field (Healing Spring) or some damage boosts (spirits), but that’s about it.. It’s a bit the mindset of the ranger actually: A true ranger is one with nature, roams around with his pet, and is a true sociopath..

Malpractice.7850:

Aeolus.3615:

Tribio.8531:

Ranger > rest

But I might be a little prejudiced here..

Got to admit ranger are amazing even for solo altough is so rare to find good rangers.

Rangers are top tier for roaming. Decent in a zerg (at that point, it really doesnt matter what u have :p). Not so good in GvG.
I main a ranger, and they just dont bring a lot to the table, you know?

I do wish mesmers had more “punch” to their damage/aoe in large fights

They do bring a bit more then they used to though. Especially now that they have a useable blast finisher.

Tribio.8531:

Malpractice.7850:

I main a ranger, and they just dont bring a lot to the table, you know?

It is true that a ranger doesn’t have that many team supporting skills.. The occasional water field (Healing Spring) or some damage boosts (spirits), but that’s about it.. It’s a bit the mindset of the ranger actually: A true ranger is one with nature, roams around with his pet, and is a true sociopath..

Ranger traps are unblockable and pulse, throw them on zerg and its great AOE, very short cd’s as well. Frost trap can chill the entire frontline as well as providing a frost field, which when blasted, gives the OP frost aura buff. Poison traps to poison them, and flame traps to get a lot of damage with burns. I think people think of rangers as longbow and shortbow with a cute little puppy following him. If you’ve never played a ranger don’t criticize, how easily I could sit you down 1v1 and use traps to down 5 is laughable. But keep underestimating us, it gives me easy fights with over confident people who think they can snatch an easy kill because they see the pet

Tribio.8531:

Malpractice.7850:

I main a ranger, and they just dont bring a lot to the table, you know?

It is true that a ranger doesn’t have that many team supporting skills.. The occasional water field (Healing Spring) or some damage boosts (spirits), but that’s about it.. It’s a bit the mindset of the ranger actually: A true ranger is one with nature, roams around with his pet, and is a true sociopath..

Permanent regen, permanent swiftness, 60%+ fury uptime. AOE DPS boost, AOE Protection, AOE vigor…
In one build my ranger can provide more or less all that…

here, enjoy my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBHhF6koiugLrQxCWLDINFai59UMLsn7xoUKhYFfsD-j0yAYMBRiQgYDgZvioxWAHiW1Nsq5IrrxUvJV/CYwLiWtQA9XAA-w

My opinion…

Try it yourself.

That’s the joy of the game.

Experiment.

I see that a lot of people are putting engineers last on their list. Most people must not be aware that besides AoE damage, Group Blinds, and CC, Engineers also have Water fields….

The med turret is probably one of the engi’s best tools. To bad it sounds like people do not use it or unaware of it’s true power . :/

Engi also have light fields and condi removal(fumigate anybody?)

Here is my list for what I consider the most useful classes in 10-30 man fights.

Tier 1
Guardian, Warrior

Tier 2
Ele, Neco, Engi, Mes

Tier 3
Thief, ranger

I don’t think any professions are bad in WvW; each profession has a specific niche over others – that’s the point of different professions. However, in Zerg vs Zerg fights, undoubtably some professions are better off than others – that doesn’t necessarily make the others bad. Every profession has a spot in a zerg fight. If I did have to tier-list them though, it would probably look like this:

T1
Guardian
Elementalist
Warrior

T2
Necromancer
Mesmer
Engineer
Thief
Ranger

Note: This is centered around ZvZ, and not other areas of WvW such as solo roaming, small havoc groups and utility.

T1
Ele
Guard
War

T2
Mesmer

T3
Necro

T4
Medium armored professions

{*sigh*}

Someday…over the rainbow…I hope Rangers will actually become wanted.

Razor.9872:

{*sigh*}

Someday…over the rainbow…I hope Rangers will actually become wanted.

oh, they are. Nothing is more needed then Healing Spring on rams…

the state of the ranger in organized GvZ/GvZ is quite sad, even though it has been slowly getting better. mostly with LB, signet, and OH axe buffs. but it’s small potatoes unfortunately.

ranger doesnt really belong in the frontline because he has no frontline sustain with the exception of a few nice CD’s (signets) and evades. frontline weapons (GS, sword) dont do enough damage with tanky builds and provide zero utility for your team. ranger has zero on-demand protection and heals (outside of the #6 heal itself)

ranger also doesnt really belong in the backline because he neither offers useful benefits to the group (might, blast finishers, stability, protection, condi clearance, massive hard CC), nor high aoe dps and debuffs like staff ele and power wellmancer can.

finally, ranger doesnt belong in the backline assault group because these jobs are done beautifully by GC mesmers and thieves. a full zerker ranger breaks like a twig in these gvg scenarios, and is always out-dps’d by the zerker GS mez, which has a ton of survivability to boot.

i have over 1000 hours on my ranger in wvw and have pushed the profession to the max in wvw.

overall, it’s a very poorly designed profession that has had a whole bunch of minor buffs, which have not dealt with the core of the issue:

- poor utility on weapons and utilities
- high damage builds require you to give up most of your survivability
- half of utilities are useless in organized fights
- poor sustain outside of regen bunker builds, which do nothing for your group
- fundamentally flawed prof mechanic, the pet. unreliable f2’s, terrible survivability in aoe’s, bad AI

Prysin.8542:

Razor.9872:

{*sigh*}

Someday…over the rainbow…I hope Rangers will actually become wanted.

oh, they are. Nothing is more needed then Healing Spring on rams…

this is hard to believe, but Healing Rain is better in just about every way. maybe not for rams, but for GvG/GvZ.

1. it’s got a huge casting range, meaning u can drop it anywhere at any time; HS is pbaoe, so u have to get there to cast it

2. its water field is enormous allow your group to blast finish from wherever

3. HR doesnt cleanse as much, is on a longer CD, doesnt give vigor, and doesnt last as long. in organized WvW however, you dont need this condi cleansing function as it’s already done by guard and warriors, nor do u need vigor, which is spammed by warriors and perma-stacked by most guard and ele builds. u need mobility, which is what HS doesnt synergize with.

mistsim.2748:

Prysin.8542:

Razor.9872:

{*sigh*}

Someday…over the rainbow…I hope Rangers will actually become wanted.

oh, they are. Nothing is more needed then Healing Spring on rams…

this is hard to believe, but Healing Rain is better in just about every way. maybe not for rams, but for GvG/GvZ.

1. it’s got a huge casting range, meaning u can drop it anywhere at any time; HS is pbaoe, so u have to get there to cast it

2. its water field is enormous allow your group to blast finish from wherever

3. HR doesnt cleanse as much, is on a longer CD, doesnt give vigor, and doesnt last as long. in organized WvW however, you dont need this condi cleansing function as it’s already done by guard and warriors, nor do u need vigor, which is spammed by warriors and perma-stacked by most guard and ele builds. u need mobility, which is what HS doesnt synergize with.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_of_the_Wild
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Voice
at 30% boon duration, you will offer permanent regen and permanent swiftness. from 40 trait points. Add to that, the ability to offer traited spirits in siege situations… Congratulations, our kittenty profession can provide plenty of support, with one traitline.

any class on an AC > all classes.

IMO the classes are pretty well-balanced in WVW.

Some think thieves are bad at zerging but it really isn’t true – great AOE, spammable blasts, spammable AOE poison & weakness, good utility.

Thief.

Cheapest class and the best one to carry bad players.

Your welcome.

Lablamb.2419:

You said exactly what I said. Well Necromancers basically jump around and throw up a bunch of AoE. There is not a lot of skill or timing.

Have you ever fought in larger group than 5 ? Have you ever heard of focusing damage on one point ? Necros have to have the same timing as everybody else to bring the damage on point, on time. The rest of your statements about the necro i leave uncommented because you have made very clear that you have neither the experience nor an idea what a necromancer can do in large scale fights.

AphoticEssance.7592:

I see that a lot of people are putting engineers last on their list. Most people must not be aware that besides AoE damage, Group Blinds, and CC, Engineers also have Water fields….

The med turret is probably one of the engi’s best tools. To bad it sounds like people do not use it or unaware of it’s true power . :/

Engi also have light fields and condi removal(fumigate anybody?)

I am also a bit surprised that everyone ranks engineers so low as well. I think I’ve figured it out though.

When evaluating classes that I myself haven’t played, the way I do this is by field presence. Basically, I gauge how often it is I notice the class, and how often it is I notice the class doing something great, and that makes up my rankings. I get the feeling everyone else does this, too. After all, if you never see a class doing something good, then you won’t say that the class is any good.

I ranked engineers high because I play an engineer sometimes, and despite their skill ceiling I’ve found the engineer to be great in WvW. Largely because they do everything, and they do a large number of things at the same time. I find myself useful in every circumstance. I can 1 vs. 1, I can run with a small group, I can solo camps and yaks, I can attack towers and keeps, I can defend towers and keeps, I can fight at both close range and a distance, I can lay down the hurt in a zerg, I have plenty of finishers AND fields, and I can cleric and heal. The only reason why I main the necro in WvW is because the engineer is much more difficult to play well, and sadly my personal skill and hardware are lacking there. Because of all that, the engineer is always a good class to have around.

But one thing I also noticed is that I can never find another engineer in WvW. I see every other class all the time, but the engineer is a rarity. I’ll be in groups of 30+, and not see a single engineer among those ranks (SoR native here). The engineer isn’t ever doing something fantastic because the engineer isn’t ever around to do it. People can’t notice what isn’t there, so the engineer gets ranked low. I’m not sure if this is a reinforcing circle, where no one plays engineers because no one else plays engineer.

They also might have the ranger problem in that their skill ceiling makes them difficult to use. I’m a good necromancer, but only a mediocre engineer. Even comparing my performance to itself, one would think that necros were much better in WvW, despite the fact that I’ve found things to the contrary.

Well that’s just simply a case of One in the Hand vs. Two in the Bush.

If they are so hard to play that almost no one can use them effectively, then they are in fact, ineffective and the ranking is not wrong.

You can’t defend keeps with ‘potential’

Prysin.8542:

mistsim.2748:

Prysin.8542:

Razor.9872:

{*sigh*}

Someday…over the rainbow…I hope Rangers will actually become wanted.

oh, they are. Nothing is more needed then Healing Spring on rams…

this is hard to believe, but Healing Rain is better in just about every way. maybe not for rams, but for GvG/GvZ.

1. it’s got a huge casting range, meaning u can drop it anywhere at any time; HS is pbaoe, so u have to get there to cast it

2. its water field is enormous allow your group to blast finish from wherever

3. HR doesnt cleanse as much, is on a longer CD, doesnt give vigor, and doesnt last as long. in organized WvW however, you dont need this condi cleansing function as it’s already done by guard and warriors, nor do u need vigor, which is spammed by warriors and perma-stacked by most guard and ele builds. u need mobility, which is what HS doesnt synergize with.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_of_the_Wild
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Voice
at 30% boon duration, you will offer permanent regen and permanent swiftness. from 40 trait points. Add to that, the ability to offer traited spirits in siege situations… Congratulations, our kittenty profession can provide plenty of support, with one traitline.

regen and swiftness are the most underpowered and unnecessary boons for organized wvw. and i have to equip a shout to make this work, which is ridiculous because all shouts are entirely useless.

guardians and eles give perma swiftness and regen, in addition to a serious amount of heals if specced cleric. on top of this, they give a ton of protection, fury, might and stability (guards).

call of the wild is excellent and a step in the right direction for rangers. but not nearly enough.

Fordel.3208:

Well that’s just simply a case of One in the Hand vs. Two in the Bush.

If they are so hard to play that almost no one can use them effectively, then they are in fact, ineffective and the ranking is not wrong.

You can’t defend keeps with ‘potential’

Skill ceiling is a debate in its own. You could say that the fault is with the players not learning how to play the engineer, rather than the engineer’s design.

Group combat:

Top tier:
Guardian

High tier:
Warrior
Ele
Mesmer

Mid tier:
Necromancer
Thief (with reservations high)

Low tier:
Ranger
Engineer (with reservations mid)

Roaming:

Top tier:
Thief

Low tier:
Warrior
Guardian
Ranger
Engineer
Necromancer
Mesmer
Ele

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Fordel.3208:

Well that’s just simply a case of One in the Hand vs. Two in the Bush.

If they are so hard to play that almost no one can use them effectively, then they are in fact, ineffective and the ranking is not wrong.

You can’t defend keeps with ‘potential’

Skill ceiling is a debate in its own. You could say that the fault is with the players not learning how to play the engineer, rather than the engineer’s design.

It could very well be the fault of the players, still doesn’t make the reality of the classes contribution to the zerg hive mind any different.

You said it yourself, you end up playing your Necro because you can be just as effective, if not more so, and have an easier time doing it, freeing up some mental bandwidth for other decision making.

Ease of play absolutely influences a professions worth.

This is the correct ranking system out of 10 for class usefulness in an ORGANIZED zerg fight.

Warrior 9/10
Guardian 10/10
Thief 2/10
Ranger 2/10
Engineer 4/10
Mesmer 7/10
Ele 10/10
Necromancer 8/10

I think some of you need to actually try playing thiefs rooming/zerging. Using a shortbow and auto attack and 2/4 skill is great in zergs and defense. (Thief is my main WvW class)

Some of you dont understand what a zerging really is, ultamiatly it doesnt really matter what class you use, as long as you have more people than the other zerg, you win. Thats it.

Finally the best WvW class is the one your best with. You can roll a warrior/guard/ele and be horrible and roll an engie and dominate.

I dont even want to talk about rangers, i still love them (its my main) even in the sad state they are in.