Guild Wars 2

This was the question:

Many of us have been wondering for a very long time, are the map caps for each server actually equal for each map, dont have to give the actual number, but are they actually equal because sometimes….

This was the relevant part of the reply by dev Stephen ClarkeWillson (the rest of the reply is about transfers):

The number of players allowed in per team all follow the same rules on all instances of each WvW map.

Here’s the interesting thing:

Notice that he avoids saying that the number of players alloted to each side are the same. So some other factors affect the player cap. Players have suspected this from the beginning. Now the question is what are these other factors?

• minions?
• siege?
• minis?

I can imagine the toxicity in mapchat if any of these three are revealed to affect the map cap (which is probably why the answer was phrased as it was).

Sources:

• Question: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Lag-March-2015/page/14#post5331799
• Answer: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Lag-March-2015/page/14#post5331836

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

Thought you said you were leaving the WvW forums to frolic in PvE-land? The rainbows and butterflies are calling you…

xev.9476:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

Thought you said you were leaving the WvW forums to frolic in PvE-land? The rainbows and butterflies are calling you…

Victory or death is bugged for me and guess what its PVE. Its been 3 days and hasn’t been fixed.. Looks like everyone that claims PVE bugs get fixed right a way are wrong too.

Darling.

I think you’re:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

So they avoided the question yet you are so much closer to getting the answer you are looking for?

Nah I’d rather complain about people complaining then complain about what some dev says that is trying to be helpful.

Ohh look the same old “been a problem for years” post

Until victory or death is fixed I will not be happy so I will add it to every thread I post in so maybe anet will fix it sooner :P

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

So they avoided the question yet you are so much closer to getting the answer you are looking for?

Wow. Someone please explain it to this guy.

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

So they avoided the question yet you are so much closer to getting the answer you are looking for?

Wow. Someone please explain it to this guy.

You explain it.. You said he avoided the question but then said you are also closer to getting your answer. So which is it really? Did he avoid the question and leave you still wondering or did he answer it?

I quoted you for a reason because I want you to reply.

I’ll help you out since you seem to be stumped.. The answer was phrased the way it was because it was asked about “players” not mini’s, not siege, and not minions

What would be useful is if they actually came out with details of how the map cap is determined, what it is, what if anything affects it and how it has changed since launch.

Wouldn’t be hard to do, but instead they avoid giving a straight answer, leading to speculation and a suspicion that players wouldn’t like what they heard (like they care about what wvw players think anyway…).

Yes it’s certainly minis! If enemy zerg has 60 ppl but we have only 30 cuz all of them use minis!

For real though, where do ppl take such stupid ideas from? X_X

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

So they avoided the question yet you are so much closer to getting the answer you are looking for?

Wow. Someone please explain it to this guy.

You explain it.. You said he avoided the question but then said you are also closer to getting your answer. So which is it really? Did he avoid the question and leave you still wondering or did he answer it?

I quoted you for a reason because I want you to reply.

I’ll help you out since you seem to be stumped.. The answer was phrased the way it was because it was asked about “players” not mini’s, not siege, and not minions

Oh wow. I thought you were being snarky, but it turns out you really don’t understand it.

You don’t give a roundabout answer of “every server follows the same rules” to a simple question: “are the map caps equal,” if the answer were simply “yes.”

So the answer is not “yes” because there are other factors that affect the cap. One possibility is that minions count towards the cap: maybe not as a full player but perhaps a percentage of a player. Maybe siege counts towards the cap. Maybe minis count toward the cap. I’ve seen all three speculated in these forums several times.

It’s not even farfetched, particularly the minions theory:

Minions have AI, they interact with players. They hit and get hit. So they cost server time… which there’s a finite amount of. Combine this with the aforementioned “rule,” which is very possibly: “each server gets the same amount of server time,” and you’ve got a setup where two servers are both capped but one server has more players.

So why won’t Anet come out and just say this? It’s because if they did, WvW would instantly become toxic when one server feels it is capped but has fewer players than an opponent. Minion master necros, spirit weapon guards… whoever has minions will be told to GTFO to make room in the queue.

Imagine if siege influenced the cap, you’d have siege trolls going even more crazy than they do now.

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

Have to agree here, take the tin foil hat off, Anet has many … many faults but they are not the boogey man.

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

First off, why would I want to “let go of this game”, when I thoroughly enjoy the game and my play time?

Although, I completely agree that a vast majority of the time they post any facts on the forums, they get a plethora of rude comments, replies, and attacks. Generally by the same posters who cry about how seldom they post.

I doubt the map population caps directly count summoned creatures. I would suspect they set a hard cap, and did so based on an expectation of a certain amount of summons skills.

Random.4691:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

Have to agree here, take the tin foil hat off, Anet has many … many faults but they are not the boogey man.

But then why can’t they just answer the question? Why phrase it like they did?

Sure it may just be that the devs writing these responses are bad writers but I have noticed this in their responses regarding other questions and issues. They don’t just simply answer the question. They phrase their answers strangely. Kind of like a lawyer trying to avoid giving a straight answer to something.

Me personally I think they’re just bad writers. I mean they’re computer programers not English or Communications majors. I’d swear I’ve seen somewhere else that an Anet person said plainly that all servers have the same map cap. But its still annoying.

Johje Holan.4607:

I’d swear I’ve seen somewhere else that an Anet person said plainly that all servers have the same map cap. But its still annoying.

Yes, Habib talked about it during beta release.

Then the big ol’ WvW meanies chased him away.

He was such a nice man. Sniff.

As per the OP, they cannot definitively state each team gets X players per map because of variables like Necro and Ranger pets. Anet has admitted in the past that those minions DO take up a smaller fraction of a player spot (I believe 1/8th was cited), so there’s no way they can definitively say each team gets X players because of that variable. They don’t have hard numbers on how many rangers and necros are on map.

This does NOT include mini pets, btw However, mini pets factor into lag since it takes resources to render the animation for those mini-pets and contributes to game play. Those playing WvW, if you’re out in the zerg in particular, you’re doing your teammates a service if you stow them.

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

Lord Kuru.3685:

briggah.7910:

And this is the reason why anet never posts in the wvw section.. Bunch of people who just won’t let go of this game constantly hang around the forums and nitpick at everything they ever say.

LOL. Nitpicking just got us a lot closer to learning about something people have wanted to know for years. I’d say it’s a lot more productive than incessantly complaining about forum posts.

So they avoided the question yet you are so much closer to getting the answer you are looking for?

Wow. Someone please explain it to this guy.

You explain it.. You said he avoided the question but then said you are also closer to getting your answer. So which is it really? Did he avoid the question and leave you still wondering or did he answer it?

I quoted you for a reason because I want you to reply.

I’ll help you out since you seem to be stumped.. The answer was phrased the way it was because it was asked about “players” not mini’s, not siege, and not minions

Oh wow. I thought you were being snarky, but it turns out you really don’t understand it.

You don’t give a roundabout answer of “every server follows the same rules” to a simple question: “are the map caps equal,” if the answer were simply “yes.”

So the answer is not “yes” because there are other factors that affect the cap. One possibility is that minions count towards the cap: maybe not as a full player but perhaps a percentage of a player. Maybe siege counts towards the cap. Maybe minis count toward the cap. I’ve seen all three speculated in these forums several times.

It’s not even farfetched, particularly the minions theory:

Minions have AI, they interact with players. They hit and get hit. So they cost server time… which there’s a finite amount of. Combine this with the aforementioned “rule,” which is very possibly: “each server gets the same amount of server time,” and you’ve got a setup where two servers are both capped but one server has more players.

So why won’t Anet come out and just say this? It’s because if they did, WvW would instantly become toxic when one server feels it is capped but has fewer players than an opponent. Minion master necros, spirit weapon guards… whoever has minions will be told to GTFO to make room in the queue.

Imagine if siege influenced the cap, you’d have siege trolls going even more crazy than they do now.

Maybe if you ask the right question nicely you will get an answer.. Maybe not.. Point was he was trying to be helpful and yet again someone creates a post about something the dev says and makes it look like the dev avoided the question.. I think he answered the question the best he could.

ps: Day 4 and victory or death is still bugged. I can’t get a shiny new pact skin that I will never use so yes I may sound sarcastic and snarky..

Jayne.9251:

Johje Holan.4607:

I’d swear I’ve seen somewhere else that an Anet person said plainly that all servers have the same map cap. But its still annoying.

Yes, Habib talked about it during beta release.

Then the big ol’ WvW meanies chased him away.

He was such a nice man. Sniff.

As per the OP, they cannot definitively state each team gets X players per map because of variables like Necro and Ranger pets. Anet has admitted in the past that those minions DO take up a smaller fraction of a player spot (I believe 1/8th was cited), so there’s no way they can definitively say each team gets X players because of that variable. They don’t have hard numbers on how many rangers and necros are on map.

This does NOT include mini pets, btw However, mini pets factor into lag since it takes resources to render the animation for those mini-pets and contributes to game play. Those playing WvW, if you’re out in the zerg in particular, you’re doing your teammates a service if you stow them.

I was saying that I remember hearing somewhere that Anet (maybe it was Habib come to think of it) definitively said that each server has the same number of players allowed in a map.

It really makes no sense otherwise. Why would they need to make it more complex by counting pets and minions as a percentage of a player?

The map cap exists in part for performance reasons. But if that were the concern with pets and minions then all they’d need to do is set a cap slightly lower to account for the possibility of someone bringing in a pet or minion. They wouldn’t need to count that pet or minion for anything.

Also, how can they possibly count minions who are created and die on the fly? They can’t know if a Necro comes into WvW to count them automatically as more than a person. They can’t know if that Necro is even running a minion build.

No, the only thing that makes sense is that the map cap is the same for all servers and is based on player count only.

And that the disparity that people sometimes claim to see is due to:

• Players afk somewhere on the map
• Players crafting or in the JP
• Players kitten ing around by themselves and not being accounted for

And the strange phrasing of responses by Anet is due to them being computer geeks and having poor communication skills.

Jayne.9251:

This does NOT include mini pets, btw

I personally doubt minipets count towards the cap, but silly as it sounds, it’s not completely inconceivable.

They do seem to take up more server time than you’d expect. For example, remember when ranger runes gave their bonus if you had a minipet? This indicates that they might not be coded as simply as we’d expect.

I think some people are reading WAY TOO MUCH into way too little.

I understand the need for clarity and the wording was strange (although typical), but given that the person who actually asked the question actually seemed to have understood the answer, I don’t really see the issue. I also don’t see the need for an entirely new topic when it could have just been a direct reply to the post in question! Might have actually gotten a clearer answer.