I have an idea for rewarding your scouts. In this sense, I mean the folks who voluntarily stand in towers and keeps doing nothing more than keeping an eye out and refreshing siege while everyone else is out having fun playing. I’m not going to claim to know the absolute best implementation of this down to the last detail, but I think I have a good framework for something that’s doable.
Basically, a commander can designate scouts for certain periods of time, who will then gain rewards proportionate to what the commanders’ squad are earning. So Commander Bob needs someone to watch the water gate at garrison. This person is likely expected to stand at the water gate for the vast majority of his time, making the occasional lap to refresh siege and scope out the other doors. Scout Jim absolutely hates doing this, but he knows it needs done and no one else is stepping up to do it, so he reluctantly agrees. For likely at least the next hour, Jim’s GW2 experience is going to be very dull. Not just dull, but completely unrewarding.
But, what if Commander Bob can designate that (just a random number for example’s sake) 5% of all the loot that his squad makes (meaning actual drops, badges, wxp, and xp) just go straight to Scout Jim? Well, I’m sure Jim won’t hate his task quite as much, and he’ll actually get something back for what would otherwise be a very thankless, but very necessary task.
That’s pretty much the core of it, the details of course need to be hacked out. Points that specifically need to be worked on, that I can think of right now:
Would it be better to go by who has literally joined a squad, or just by some arbitrary radius around the pin. Basically, how voluntary should this be? If the former, I assume organized guilds would have no problem with consent, but what about pug armies?
How should Scout Jim get his rewards? One big chest every 15 min? A constant stream of loot as the squad members earn it? Should Jim just be rewarded at the end of each event?
Should Jim literally get 5% of the squad’s income, as in, the squad will not get that 5%? Or should the squad get the same amount of rewards as before, and Jim just gets his own 5% generated for him? Again, I’m not married to 5%, just using it as an example.
And remember, any given commander is probably going to have multiples of these people. IE any good home BL defense require at least a scout at the NE and NW towers, as well as someone on garrison. If you have Hills or Bay, you’ll want someone there too.
This also has the benefit of letting you bring uplevels to WvW who will both contribute meaningfully, and also gain XP. I know actually seeing this implemented is probably a pipe dream, but supposedly big commander changes are coming. I’d like to see something like this among them.
Star Trek Movie Marathons are what have gotten me through HOURS of tower/keep babysitting.
Rewarding scouts should be something that commanders talk over with their scouts. If the scouts want a reward, great, figure something out. If scouts could care less about the reward and rather finds the reward to be helping out the team or still being able to do something of value while a lot of their attention can be given to other tasks.
I’d hate for commanders to be held hostage to “turning on the scout loot” for anyone to volunteer a part of their time.
Basically, I think it just works better for everyone if it’s a discussion between the commander and the scout, rather than something forced upon everyone by ANET.
I don’t think it would be forced on anyone. It would be a commander’s prerogative to use it. I would argue that likey the same small group of people willing to do it would still be the same folks after this system would be implemented, it’s just that they’d get something for it. As it stands, most of the folks who scout are folks who wouldn’t expect to be rewarded, and if anyone started saying, “Yeah, I’ll watch garri for 2 hours for 1g, they’d be laughed right off the map.” I just know the problem of rewarding passive, defensive activities in WvW is hard, because you open up the gates to absue by afkers. I figure something like this could work around that.
No will get abused, better that Arena net build in a buff that tick wxp or something like that, after 5min in a building that not been attacked you get the buff and then ever 10min after that the % goes up, or better you get CD time you can leave the building to get supply’s and so on.
I think that might actually be easier to abuse. Your system just begs for someone to akitten a tower. At least with what I proposed, you have other players “policing” it. Plus, if a tower gets attacked, it’s not the scout not doing its job. That’s why the scout is there, so when an attack happens, he can rally forces. When an attack happens is when everyone is glad that some shmuck was good enough to stand around the garrison playing Sonic CD on their mobile phone and refreshing siege.
Klawlyt yes but when it get attacked you fight (get points) so it is the off time were you stand in a tower for 1hour and nothing happens you should get some reward.
Klawlyt yes but when it get attacked you fight (get points) so it is the off time were you stand in a tower for 1hour and nothing happens you should get some reward.
No argument there, but your system still lets afkers be rewarded regardless of if they warn anyone. With the current system, commanders generally check in with their scouts anyway, so there’s still check on that. Though admittedly, adding an exception for what the squad is doing at the tower you’re scouting is probably a good idea.
Sollution:
For every 10 minutes inside a keep or tower you get a special stack/buff like the guard leech or the applied fortititued. Ofcourse with a cap. (5 stacks)
When you get away from the tower/keep to long(10 minutes) you will loose them.
The stack will be like 10 points on all stats and an extra bonus for all earned wxp , karma , mf etc..
You could even make a new wxp track: Guard
where you can upgrade the number of stacks to a max of 10 stacks. And even have some special protection skills, skills, siege skills when fighting inside the keep/tower.
Or when you claimed the tower all stacks are improved with 1 extra point to all stats.
This will also bring another tactic into the game:
When an enemy server is karma training with a very large zerg and you have only like 50% of their train size of people in the zone. Gather up in a keep and get stacks and wait till the karma train hits the keep.. with some siege and the buff you should be able to kill the enemie.. And when you have like 70% but still cant beat the larger force you can even think about trying to hold 2 keeps and split your force in 2.
(edited by Dutchares.6084)
Klawlyt for afk they can/should lower kick timeout to 5min.
Scouts need to be rewarded more, they do a crucial job, but it is going to be very, very hard rewarding them in a way that won’t be abused by other players…
Given that being a scout often involves standing around doing nothing…
Btw i think being a scout and guarding (standing still) inside a keep are 2 different things.
A scout should follow/stay near the enemy zerg and report the direction they going.
Being able to waste/take supplies in not defendable towers/keeps and taking supply camps just before the enemy zerg gets there. Will make the enemy zerg run out of supplies real fast or slow them down waiting for the camp buff dissapears.
So a real big advantage.. and even doable when outnumbered.
Rewarding Scouting is tricky… as it is likely to be abused by afk people. They may have to add new enemy npcs that spawn inside or near buildings… Saboteurs, Traitors, Thieves, Rats, Vermin that need to be killed. Or extra Centaur/Dredge mobs that attack buildings on their own that need to be thwarted. Or unmotivated workers and sleeping guards that need to be dealt with. To reward Scouting will probably require adding something new for you to “do” to earn a reward even if that task is a distraction from what you are supposed to be doing.
Defending/Escorting/Repairing/Scouting all need better rewards now that assaulting gives champ loot and new mats. I personally like the idea of finding loot occasionally while repairing walls. Those things have been rebuilt so many times during battles there’s got to be loot in them there walls.
Btw i think being a scout and guarding (standing still) inside a keep are 2 different things.
A scout should follow/stay near the enemy zerg and report the direction they going.
Being able to waste/take supplies in not defendable towers/keeps and taking supply camps just before the enemy zerg gets there. Will make the enemy zerg run out of supplies real fast or slow them down waiting for the camp buff dissapears.
So a real big advantage.. and even doable when outnumbered.
You’re not wrong, but on my server at least, (JQ) everyone calls the folks who watch the towers scouts for whatever reason. So that’s the terminology I went with. The kind of scout who actively scouts the enemy could use rewards too, of course, but I rarely do that duty, so I’m not as aware of their needs.
Of course, it really could just be the same system. Realistically, if tweaked well, this system could apply to scouts, guards, siege runners and any of the other passive-but-needed roles. I know it would still be abusable, but at least there’s the human element controlling it. A commander needs to consent that the scout really is scouting in order to receive the reward. Within the framework of a guild, I think it’s likely ro see much more “good” use than “evil” use.
And yeah, in many locations the tower guard kind of scout can park it in one spot and just refresh siege once an hour. Like in the NE and NW towers. You can stand in one spot and see the switchbacks and the northern path, and that’s all you need to see, assuming you already have garri, and someone’s watching it. Draw distance won’t let you see the valley below (or more specifically, players who are there), so you get every thing covered in one spot. Keep guards generally can hoof it around to multiples doors of course.
Pretty sure a guild on my realm has a guild tax every week (something small, like 2-3g).
They pay people in their guild a few gold an hour to scout.
Pretty sure a guild on my realm has a guild tax every week (something small, like 2-3g).
They pay people in their guild a few gold an hour to scout.
That’s a great idea if you can get your guild to do it, but I’m betting not many guilds would/could go for that. If there were a mechanic built right into the game, I’m betting it would be much less debatable.
BTW, are you the Xista of Gamebreaker/Train Simulator fame?
As it is up to every Guild/Group to reward a Scout or a Guard for his/her work I do not think that Anet needs to reward something they maybe did not even intend us to do…
I mean it might help if someone can call if a Zerg attacks a Tower/Keep but that’s what the “Two-Crossed-Swords-Icon” on the Map view is for. Why reward someone doing exactly what an Icon can do by itself?
Regarding the Sieges which disappear after a certain time: Well I can just say it is obviously not intended to have a Tower armed by more Sieges than people can build with the Supply available to them. And I think this is actually a good system as the attacking party has to have a chance to actually win the Tower/Keep with the limited ressources they can carry.
Isn’t it more fun winning back a Tower/Keep than having people watching over them?
Just my opinion, but I think it’s just right that they don’t reward anything that is not fun doing…
Just my opinion, but I think it’s just right that they don’t reward anything that is not fun doing…
I’m guessing you haven’t noticed that last two LS updates then.
Seriously though. Originally siege would disappear after 15 min of disuse. ANet wisely bumped that up to an hour. They could have made it an hour without hitting anything, but they just made it easier to babysit.
As for the orange swords, you know there’s a way around that, yeah? That’s why the smart zergs don’t PvD until they’ve been scouted. So long as no one knows you’re banging on the door, continue to do so with just the siege, and you don’t pop swords.
Plus, a huge, longstanding complaint is that WvW rewards offense much more than defense. I think this would be one tiny step toward rewarding defensive play a little better.
I wasn’t referring to the Orange Swords but to the Contested Sign that appears on the Green/Red/Blue Ball of the Building when anything gets attacked. As far as I know there is no way around that.
I don’t say they shouldn’t reward defending a structure, however, just standing in one keeping Sieges alive and alarming everyone when a Zerg arrives? I don’t think that there is any reasonable argument that this should be rewarded.
Scouts need to be rewarded more, they do a crucial job, but it is going to be very, very hard rewarding them in a way that won’t be abused by other players…
Given that being a scout often involves standing around doing nothing…
Just do a 15 – 30 minute rotation, problem solved.
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