Just wanted to understand the mindset of the player base. What prevents guilds/alliances/people from using the free transfer system? Is it because loyalty to current server has already formed? Is it because of guild perks are lost? Is it because fear of the “unknown”?
Just trying to understand a bit better why people would complain about “night capping” but the servers that actually have good “night capping” crews are not been flooded with NA guilds looking to stay competitive and build a community. Everyone wants to recruit the Aussies and Asians – but there are servers with very strong Aussies and Asians (IoJ/SoS) already. What’s more perplexing is that these two servers have 0 queues during NA prime and need the help. What would prevent guilds/people/alliances in non-top-4 servers to transfer over to the 5th and 6th ranked server in North America – especially when they need the help during YOUR prime time hours of play.
On top of this, the server rankings need to be reset, 24 hour matches reinstated for at least 1 week after the free transfers have gone away. The ranking data is inaccurate because lets say you had a server that was doing good, but the queue was long, guild cant field its crew, guild transfers off, ranking data starts to be faulty. This has gone on for almost a month now, and the ranking data is now extremely faulty and many servers have been matched up against servers they should not be.
On top of this, the server rankings need to be reset, 24 hour matches reinstated for at least 1 week after the free transfers have gone away. The ranking data is inaccurate because lets say you had a server that was doing good, but the queue was long, guild cant field its crew, guild transfers off, ranking data starts to be faulty. This has gone on for almost a month now, and the ranking data is now extremely faulty and many servers have been matched up against servers they should not be.
Sorry mate…you are posting on the wrong thread. Please take a look at the topic of the forum post before responding. Thnx.
Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.
Actually SoS and IoJ are technically night capping servers because of their high Oceanic pop and if what Dethwar says is true then there is no queue during US prime time.
Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.
I’m sorry, I fail to understand this. You are saying that IoJ and SoS because they are high pop servers also have long queues for WvW? That is not the case AT ALL. If that is really the thinking, please hear me out. My server IoJ is full of PvE’rs during NA prime. Its a high population server but there are no queues for WvW AT ALL.
Just because a server is a high pop server, does not mean they are a high pop server for WvW. The guild I’m in has no problem fitting in our crew of 10 to 15 with 0 queue times at any time during NA prime time (7pm to 3am est).
well coming from fort aspenwood, which is doing its fair share of night capping.
According to my guildies who play during the day, we have 2-3 hours queues. Whereas late night my queues are instant.
Which means there’s no benefit to joining our server for wvwvw unless you were also part of a night crew. Your queue time will (likely) increase, and you wont see much benefit.
Because the night capping servers have a high pop, and so you would need to queue for hours “to be competitive”.
Actually SoS and IoJ are technically night capping servers because of their high Oceanic pop and if what Dethwar says is true then there is no queue during US prime time.
Yes, this exactly Tzash. These two are high population servers but not high population servers for WvW. You got my point for sure. I’m in IoJ and three of the 4 borderlands in IoJ have 0 queue times. The only borderland that has queue times is the borderland where the current alliance plays – other than that absolutely empty during NA prime time hours.
Sorry mate…you are posting on the wrong thread. Please take a look at the topic of the forum post before responding. Thnx.
No I am not, this guy is promoting using the free transfer system, I am debating the side of not using it, and it not being implemented at all.
I’m for smoothing out the WvW populations. Cancelling out the free transfer system lets things be as they are now. Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after. But thnx for derail – back on topic.
I’m for smoothing out the WvW populations. Cancelling out the free transfer system lets things be as they are now. Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after. But thnx for derail – back on topic.
Well it’s fairly easy. Medium pop servers are building guilds and might not want to be dilluted in a high pop server with so many other guilds.
High pop server guilds don’t want to go in smaller servers because they don’t perform as much in WvW (by the ranking numbers).
Isle of Janthir | Defenders of Heroism [Hero] | Elementalist
well coming from fort aspenwood, which is doing its fair share of night capping.
According to my guildies who play during the day, we have 2-3 hours queues. Whereas late night my queues are instant.
Which means there’s no benefit to joining our server for wvwvw unless you were also part of a night crew. Your queue time will (likely) increase, and you wont see much benefit.
To understand, Fort Aspenwood has a night crew of Oceanics and Asians with a two to three hour queue – this is what you term by having a “night crew”? There would be a benefit for guilds looking for no queues and a “night crew” to come over. There of course wouldn’t be any benefit for “night crew” guilds to come over since they can’t play.
Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after.
Seriously? You don’t understand why thousands of people interested in WvW from all over the world aren’t collectively dispersing themselves to random servers where a WvW community may not ever exist?
If anet honestly wanted that, they would have some sort of optional tool which asked the player about their play and then recommended/assigned a server.
I’ve been to several several servers where WvW might as well not even exist compared to the top servers, and you wonder why I didn’t stay there waiting for more people to randomly come?
I’m for smoothing out the WvW populations. Cancelling out the free transfer system lets things be as they are now. Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after. But thnx for derail – back on topic.
Well it’s fairly easy. Medium pop servers are building guilds and might not want to be dilluted in a high pop server with so many other guilds.
High pop server guilds don’t want to go in smaller servers because they don’t perform as much in WvW (by the ranking numbers).
Ok, point 1. Not sure what you mean by dilluted? Please explain. Medium populations guilds can better recruit in high population servers and they get the added benefit of having no queues for WvW where they can play to their heart’s desire. So could you please go into more detail about dillution, I’m interested as to what you mean.
On your second point. I see your point here. Guilds in the top 4 servers don’t want to transfer to the second and third tier servers because of performance in smaller servers. However then, by logic the opposite would be true as well. Low pop and Med servers would be transferring to the second tier servers where they can enjoy High Population more active WvW and an around the clock coverage – but this is not currently happening. Point taken, but would like your opinion on this pls.
Understanding why people aren’t using the system in place to smooth out WvW populations is what I’m after.
Seriously? You don’t understand why thousands of people interested in WvW from all over the world aren’t collectively dispersing themselves to random servers where a WvW community may not ever exist?
If anet honestly wanted that, they would have some sort of optional tool which asked the player about their play and then recommended/assigned a server.
I’ve been to several several servers where WvW might as well not even exist compared to the top servers, and you wonder why I didn’t stay there waiting for more people to randomly come?
Valid point – I’d like to understand players like you a bit better. Can I ask what Prime Time zone you play? NA Prime, Oceanic/Asian, EU? Also, how long is the queue to play in your current WvW server? And also, does your current server suffer from “night capping” tactics by your opposition?
@ dethwar (because the quoting doesnt feel like working for some reason?)
“Just trying to understand a bit better why people would complain about “night capping” but the servers that actually have good “night capping” crews are not been flooded with NA guilds looking to stay competitive and build a community.”
My point is on fort aspenwood we have queue during the day time. So no guild will receive a benefit from transferring here. They will still have to wait during the day to get in and play.
Which was mostly aimed at this line
“What’s more perplexing is that these two servers have 0 queues during NA prime and need the help”
I was just pointing out that not every server with an active night crew has 0 queues during NA prime time. So the benefit for guilds switching can be much lower than you would suspect.
I guess my theory (and logic) would be that there is a “pain” threshold – lets put this “pain” threshold at 40 minute queue times. There are two motivating factors – winning and playing. You join a winning server until the pain threshold is reached – until consistently you reach the 40 minute waiting time. So people would fill into the servers motivated by winning and crunch the top servers.
But my logic would tell me this would happen accross all play times (NA/EU/Asian/Oceanic) up until queues reach the pain point. Then they would transfer to the next “winning” server until pain thresholds are reached again…this would allow for neatly stacking of server populations and overflowing populations would “tier down”. I’m guessing that is why ANET published the ranking. I’m also thinking that without the next factor average “queue” times for their playing zone, people don’t know where they can play on a winning server without reaching the “pain” thresholf of long queue times.
Ok, point 1. Not sure what you mean by dilluted? Please explain. Medium populations guilds can better recruit in high population servers and they get the added benefit of having no queues for WvW where they can play to their heart’s desire. So could you please go into more detail about dillution, I’m interested as to what you mean.
I’m playing in a medium to high pop server (Anvil Rock) and we already have a 300 members guild, and counting. There is a cap to a guild and it’s fairly easy to reach it. If you have a bigger population, you obviously have more guilds around that try to run the WvW and so the good players can be dispersed in too many guilds.
On your second point. I see your point here. Guilds in the top 4 servers don’t want to transfer to the second and third tier servers because of performance in smaller servers. However then, by logic the opposite would be true as well. Low pop and Med servers would be transferring to the second tier servers where they can enjoy High Population more active WvW and an around the clock coverage – but this is not currently happening. Point taken, but would like your opinion on this pls.
Without the real rankings it’s a bling pick. If we look at the actual state, transferring to Jade Quarry is a REALLY bad idea because they are against Henge. Imo I wouldn’t take the risk to transfer to a high pop server just to see myself getting owned all the time in WvW despite all our efforts. I’d rather be in a smaller server with absolutely no queue
Isle of Janthir | Defenders of Heroism [Hero] | Elementalist
@ dethwar (because the quoting doesnt feel like working for some reason?)
“Just trying to understand a bit better why people would complain about “night capping” but the servers that actually have good “night capping” crews are not been flooded with NA guilds looking to stay competitive and build a community.”
My point is on fort aspenwood we have queue during the day time. So no guild will receive a benefit from transferring here. They will still have to wait during the day to get in and play.
Which was mostly aimed at this line
“What’s more perplexing is that these two servers have 0 queues during NA prime and need the help”
I was just pointing out that not every server with an active night crew has 0 queues during NA prime time. So the benefit for guilds switching can be much lower than you would suspect.
Yes, I agree. There wouldn’t be a benefit for them. But there would be a benefit for the crews that are getting night capped – I’m seeking to understand the thinking of those that claim that “night capping” is not fair – but yet refuse to go to a server where they would enjoy the benefits – 0 queue times and a force to battle the night capping servers.
Why do the players going up against your server not transfer to a server with a night capping crew? They want to recruit a night capping crew – but fail to transfer themselves.
I think I found one of the factors – some WvW interested people are getting fooled by the high population descriptor thinking they’d have queues for WvW if they transfer. However, there is no correlation in the two.
Ok, point 1. Not sure what you mean by dilluted? Please explain. Medium populations guilds can better recruit in high population servers and they get the added benefit of having no queues for WvW where they can play to their heart’s desire. So could you please go into more detail about dillution, I’m interested as to what you mean.
I’m playing in a medium to high pop server (Anvil Rock) and we already have a 300 members guild, and counting. There is a cap to a guild and it’s fairly easy to reach it. If you have a bigger population, you obviously have more guilds around that try to run the WvW and so the good players can be dispersed in too many guilds.
On your second point. I see your point here. Guilds in the top 4 servers don’t want to transfer to the second and third tier servers because of performance in smaller servers. However then, by logic the opposite would be true as well. Low pop and Med servers would be transferring to the second tier servers where they can enjoy High Population more active WvW and an around the clock coverage – but this is not currently happening. Point taken, but would like your opinion on this pls.
Without the real rankings it’s a bling pick. If we look at the actual state, transferring to Jade Quarry is a REALLY bad idea because they are against Henge. Imo I wouldn’t take the risk to transfer to a high pop server just to see myself getting owned all the time in WvW despite all our efforts. I’d rather be in a smaller server with absolutely no queue
With regards to point #1. I see what you are saying – good player dilution between several guilds. I don’t agree here and feel free to disagree with me. Good players flock to good guilds. If you are in a good guild – you would have no problem attracting the good players. By going to a high population server you would have a higher player base to recruit from and if you go to IoJ or SoS you still would have 0 queue times in WvW. It all depends on your recruting efforts and selectivity – not on the amount of players spread out through entire server. Unless you were claiming that good players go to smaller servers – your point I fail to understand.
With regards to point #2. Yes, going to a high queue server would be a bad idea because of the queue times during your hours of play – like JQ. May I ask, does your server suffer by the “night capping” tactics of your opposition?
I guess, I’m not trying to understand the people that have low queues and a night capping crew. I’m trying to understand the people who have high queues during their play time and no night capping crew.
Yes, I’m in the Anvil Rock vs Darkhaven vs Yak’s Bend battle and Yak’s Bend is the unofficial gathering point of Oceanic people. What happens is during the evening we really rock the battleground but when we log off at like 2-3 am, Yak’s Bend got fresh reinforcements from the Oceanic people and we just can’t do anything.
And so we wake up in the morning and everything is capped and we slowly have to build up our forces throughout the day to be able to give a big punch in the evening.
I don’t mind too much since Yak’s Bend will just go up in the rankings and we’ll never see them again
Isle of Janthir | Defenders of Heroism [Hero] | Elementalist
Yes, I’m in the Anvil Rock vs Darkhaven vs Yak’s Bend battle and Yak’s Bend is the unofficial gathering point of Oceanic people. What happens is during the evening we really rock the battleground but when we log off at like 2-3 am, Yak’s Bend got fresh reinforcements from the Oceanic people and we just can’t do anything.
And so we wake up in the morning and everything is capped and we slowly have to build up our forces throughout the day to be able to give a big punch in the evening.
I don’t mind too much since Yak’s Bend will just go up in the rankings and we’ll never see them again
Right on. I’ve now heard of several “unofficial” Oceanic/Asian servers – there are like 5 right now. Either way – this is besides the point.
Basically ya’ll got “night capped” by Yak’s Bend. What circumstances prevent you from joining a “night capping” server with 0 queues during NA prime so you can compete with Yak’s Bend? You mentioned dilution of player base which was not a very good point. What other factors prevent your guild from seeking and transferring to a “night capping” server that also offers 0 queue times during NA prime?
I don’t understand how ANET thinks they are balancing servers, they are collecting all this data about the player base from each server while said people are constantly jumping ship to other servers when theirs is losing, or even ranking 2nd on their map. Because it takes about 5 seconds to do it and its free. I’ve transferred across several realms to see if the same thing is happening everywhere and it is. Everywhere (almost) has 1 server dominating and the rest struggling to collect pennies.
I’m also on Darkhaven and when this matchup launched DH was leading, my guild even captured Stonemist. We were winning till about 2am est when Yaks bend started to come up on us, till that point it had been a relativily fair matchup and when I logged on in the morning 7-8hrs later, Yaks bend had near 100%, and I had even found out a good portion of DH people had transferred there. Fail.
Disabling free transfers at this point isn’t enough to solve the problem because the damage is already done. Very good guilds will eventually transfer around for shorter que times and a smaller population so they can be ranked higher on their server (lol) we saw this in WoW a lot. But really that is only a small portion in comparison. And who knows how long that could really take. Point is, you can’t collect data to make server matchups when people can move around willy nilly, and you can’t force people back to other servers, so what are you going to do ANET? I’d love to know.
Agree, losing progress in the guild buffs is a critical factor.
Your second point I disagree with. If person wants no queues during NA Prime AND also wants night capping coverage – there are several viable options. So far I’ve heard the following servers have “night capper” coverage:
1. Island of Janthir – no queues during NA prime
2. Sea of Sorrows – no queues during NA prime
3. Yaks Bend – dunno about NA prime queues
So I guess it depends on what assurances you need. The only one so far is guilds not wanting to lose their progress. But if you want to play without NA prime time queues and also have night coverage – the solution and perfect servers for these problems are there. But when I see a thread complaining about night capping the only viable suggestion has been – guild buffs lost. However, launch of this game was 3 weeks ago – so I doubt 2 or 3 weeks of guild progress is seen as an impossible barrier to help your own situation.
Agree, losing progress in the guild buffs is a critical factor.
Your second point I disagree with. If person wants no queues during NA Prime AND also wants night capping coverage – there are several viable options. So far I’ve heard the following servers have “night capper” coverage:
1. Island of Janthir – no queues during NA prime
2. Sea of Sorrows – no queues during NA prime
3. Yaks Bend – dunno about NA prime queues
So I guess it depends on what assurances you need. The only one so far is guilds not wanting to lose their progress. But if you want to play without NA prime time queues and also have night coverage – the solution and perfect servers for these problems are there. But when I see a thread complaining about night capping the only viable suggestion has been – guild buffs lost. However, launch of this game was 3 weeks ago – so I doubt 2 or 3 weeks of guild progress is seen as an impossible barrier to help your own situation.
Yes, well I mean the two things are related. The question people ask themselves is this:
“okay so if we switch servers and lose all of our progress, how do we know the new server won’t end up being popular like this one and have the samekittenqueue length?!”
And I think until transfers are locked down somewhat, most people aren’t willing to take that risk without some kind of assurance (reasonably) that the new server is going to be better in some way.
Sky – [tSA] – Stormbluff Isle
November 15, 2012 – The day a dream died.
I don’t understand how ANET thinks they are balancing servers, they are collecting all this data about the player base from each server while said people are constantly jumping ship to other servers when theirs is losing, or even ranking 2nd on their map. Because it takes about 5 seconds to do it and its free. I’ve transferred across several realms to see if the same thing is happening everywhere and it is. Everywhere (almost) has 1 server dominating and the rest struggling to collect pennies.
I’m also on Darkhaven and when this matchup launched DH was leading, my guild even captured Stonemist. We were winning till about 2am est when Yaks bend started to come up on us, till that point it had been a relativily fair matchup and when I logged on in the morning 7-8hrs later, Yaks bend had near 100%, and I had even found out a good portion of DH people had transferred there. Fail.
Disabling free transfers at this point isn’t enough to solve the problem because the damage is already done. Very good guilds will eventually transfer around for shorter que times and a smaller population so they can be ranked higher on their server (lol) we saw this in WoW a lot. But really that is only a small portion in comparison. And who knows how long that could really take. Point is, you can’t collect data to make server matchups when people can move around willy nilly, and you can’t force people back to other servers, so what are you going to do ANET? I’d love to know.
But you need free server transfers to help encourage people to run away from servers that have no night coverage or long queues. And also it looks like ET needs help with their Asian/Oceanic time zone and so do some of the other top 4 servers. Its just NA Prime Time players that have the long queues – point is you cant just close free transfers and leave tons of people hanging out to dry with either long queues or no night time coverage. Bottom line, ANET needs to fix three areas that I have analyzed:
1. Communicate the average expected queue times accross all 3 prime time zones for each server.
2. Let guilds carry with them their guild buffs when they transfer
3. Match servers with similar population profiles for WvW as opposed to a strict points based system.
Ok, I understand. As it stands right now there is perceived “risk” in that they transfer then lose guild buffs. Then server becomes popular and they have to transfer again and lose guild progress again. Its a good point. It could be easily fixed by ANET if they allow guilds to keep their progress when they transfer.
If ANET switched their policy and allowed guilds to take their guild progress with them – would this fix the perceived risk? Or would there be additional factors involved? So if ANET fixed this issue – would your guild be in market to transfer to another server with no NA queue times and night time coverage?
Agree that the main problem with people not transferring is that they would lose their guild buffs. If Anet would just allow that I can see servers leveling out quickly.
Another possible issue, at least for my server (IoJ), is that we’re a high population server with a low WvW population, at least during prime time hours. So larger guilds may actually have a hard time getting into our server.
I think that together with Server points rank we could see a Server population rank…
If people keep to tranfers to the winning server all the time we will never meet balance. There should limit the transfer only to servers with less population.
I don’t think server population rank would solve anything, nor will limiting transfers to low pop servers. Keep in mind that server population =/= dominant server. Take for example the current matchup with ET vs IoJ vs SoS. ET is a low pop server but is wiping the floor with IoJ (high pop) and SoS (unsure).
Anet needs to cut the free transfers no data they collect is relevant until they are done away with. Everyone is just leap frogging around from server to server how can you collect concrete data if the servers players base is moving around everywhere? where is the logic?
Also in keep these free transfers up all Anet is doing is making other servers less competitive. Everyone is just gonna leap frog to the best server and create super severs that will dominate all other servers.
